The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Cunningham should be tier 2 or 3.

Should be tier 1. I'm glad we had to play against him when we did and not with todays offenses. He was not a "running QB". He was an awesome pocket passer at a time plays to run the QB didn't exist. Watch two minutes of this video and tell me if there is one play, that he isn't looking to pass first. Randall was a unicorn.

 

 

[RabidFan]

Vick should be in his own tier and then the rest.  

[Dark Acre]

Randall could pass, run, and punt.  If he played in today's game, he'd be the first pick in every fantasy draft.

[Dah-Dee]

Recent scouting report on Jayden Daniels that I think does a good job with showing/discussing game tape examples of the things that concern me most about him - (1) Looks to run first upon leaving pocket, even when has open receiver(s); (2) reckless when running and doesn't slide or just throw the ball away nearly enough (to be fair, the vid does also show examples of some good skills/traits):

 

 

Edited March 19 by Dah-Dee

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Cunningham should be tier 2 or 3.

I cannot remember how fast he was, and freely admit I had a hard time evaluating him, my memory was "very elusive, elite tackle breaker and avoider, but elite speed? I don't think he had that, I think he was probably a 4.7 or 4.8 guy, but honestly, I was 10 when he debut'd). 

[Dah-Dee]

Freaking Randall, I remember that 1987 week 9 game, kept thinking (okay, maybe yelling) WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE STOP THAT GUY?! So slippery, strong and deceptively fast with all that gliding on those inhumanly-long legs. Grrrrr.

 

Bleacher Report says he ran a legit 4.4 40; and once claimed he ran a 4.29 on a HS rubber track lol.

Edited March 19 by Dah-Dee

[Voice_of_Reason]

8 hours ago, mac8887 said:

This is probably why so many QBs bust. These coaches overrate how good they can coach. I wish the nfl had a farm system like the mlb, the mlb has an entire system used for development. 

No.  So many QBs bust because there are 10 different things you have to do well in order to be a passable QB, and most people are good at 1 or 2 of them:

 

1. Baseline physical tools which makes you one of the best athletes in the world. This includes some speed and arm talent. 

2. Size: With a few exceptions, need to be at least 6-feet tall.  Preferably 6-3 or more.

3. Accuracy and ability to throw with anticipation. 

4. Ability to process information as fast as a super computer

5. Ability to retain information like a data bank

6. Toughness to get knocked down over and over and get back up.  Or know that you're going to get smacked in the mouth and just stand there and take it to deliver a pass.

7. Leadership ability to get your teammates to believe in you

8. Communicate quickly during games

9. Ability not to panic in high pressure situations

10. Ability not to get distracted by the outside world and focus on your job.  

11. Work ethic to keep grinding on film and in the weight room.  First in, last out mentality.  

 

Finding somebody which has all 11 of these traits is damn near impossible.  Toss in it's impossible to figure out some of this stuff because college offenses stink, it gets harder. And teams don't have unliimted time with players to get to know them.

 

It's a crap shoot.  It will always be a crap shoot.  Which is why you do the evaluation and come up with who you think has the highest ceiling and you take a shot.  It probably won't work.  But you've got to keep taking shots.

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I would be disappointed if they didn't meet every QB. 

 

This is called "being a professional organization."

 

Don't lock in on one guy.

 

Btw, the pick is Maye.    

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Should be tier 1. I'm glad we had to play against him when we did and not with todays offenses. He was not a "running QB". He was an awesome pocket passer at a time plays to run the QB didn't exist. Watch two minutes of this video and tell me if there is one play, that he isn't looking to pass first. Randall was a unicorn.

 

 

The problem is, how are you evaluating it? When I rate those guys, Cunningham has just the one season where he really ran, ran, ran, 1990, the rest of them, they're 500ish yards, which is basically just occasional scrambling, at a tier above the Montana/Elway level (which was in the 200's), he scrambled about twice as much as they did, so he probably is in the wrong tier, but he also played in a different kind of league. He's super hard to evaluate that way, but I think I'd settle on the Kyler tier, if I redid it. He definitely ran more than the Elway's of the world. But the problem with making him tier 1, is that while he was physically and athletically a monster, I don't think he had close to the speed Lamar, Daniels, Vick, and RGIII had, I think he was probably more like high end steve young (low 4.5 to mid 4.5). I'm just guessing, and if you think I'm underselling him, in many ways he was my favorite QB to watch, period, other than Joe Montana between 1986-1990. 

15 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

Freaking Randall, I remember that 1987 week 9 game, kept thinking (okay, maybe yelling) WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE STOP THAT GUY?! So slippery, strong and deceptively fast with all that gliding on those inhumanly-long legs. Grrrrr.

 

Bleacher Report says he ran a legit 4.4 40; and once claimed he ran a 4.29 on a HS rubber track lol.

Right after Halloween, 7th grade, sleep over at my cousin's house, and then, as if that wasn't bad enough, then the week 2 1989 game had to happen. Thanks Gerald Riggs, and defense. 

[MartinC]

3 hours ago, BayouBrave86 said:

Fields is not on the Vick Lamar level as a runner. He’s more on the Josh Allen-Kyler Murray level and that’s still being generous. 

There are only 3 QBs in NFL history with 1000 yards rushing in a season. 

 

Vick, Jackson ... and Fields.

[The Consigliere]

4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

There are only 3 QBs in NFL history with 1000 yards rushing in a season. 

 

Vick, Jackson ... and Fields.

I'm very tempted to think Fields belongs in a similar tier to those guys, its hard to figure out how to rank them out between the track star level guys (RGIII, maybe Daniels) and the elite runners with track star speed (Vick and Lamar). I think Fields fits more in the Vick/Lamar grouping as a runner, because he was a smarter, better spatial awareness kind of runner than RGIII or Daniels now appears to be. 

 

Man, watching those Cunningham highlights, so brutal to consider what was lost: barely played his first two years, stupidly in my view, then the playoffs are just perpetual disappointments, lose to the Rams in '89 and our redskins in '90 in upset losses, then gets sabotaged by fog in the notorious fog bowl following the 1988 regular season, and then as if that 3 year run wasn't disappointing enough, season ending injury in '91 , and then he climbs back 7 years later, only for Gary Anderson to blow the chip shot field goal that would have given us an infinitely better Super Bowl in 1998 (Randy Moss and Cunningham vs Elway, or that craptacular Falcons squad with the man of the year busy trying to pick up hookers the night before the game lol, great thinking Eugene). 

[FootballZombie]

Fields was in the same area code as A. Richardson coming outta college as a rusher. He showed the aptitude to be an epic impact ball carrier, but did not have the production to back it, with career highs under 500 yards which aint exactly impressive for a dude w/ his skillset.

 

He put that to rest in the NFL tho. Massive 1000+ yard season. Gotta respect him in terms of elite rushing ability right up there w/ the best.

 

Trying to figure out where he fits is an interesting debate, but at the end of the day he is elite at it in today's NFL.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Has anybody mentioned Fran Tarkenton a dual threat QB?

 

Before most of us were born but Fran is 7th on the all time QB rushing numbers.  My guy held that record for more than 20 years I think.  Young and Cunningham eventually got him.  

[Dah-Dee]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Has anybody mentioned Fran Tarkenton a dual threat QB?

 

Before most of us were born but Fran is 7th on the all time QB rushing numbers.  My guy held that record for more than 20 years I think.  Young and Cunningham eventually got him.  

 

I feel like Fran was a double edge of a dual threat, does he still have the record for fumbles?

[Destino]

I think running QB is only valuable as a secondary skill. Icing on the cake. There’s no way around having to be an excellent passer. Eventually some team will force the QB to win with his arm against good coverage.  Either by scheme or by a big lead that makes running the ball a poor option. It’s unavoidable. This is why I don’t care if Daniels can run for ten yards in the NFL, I care if he can throw for 4,000. 
 

Fields can’t, and that’s why despite running like the very best of them… he got traded for a bag of peanuts. That skill simply does not matter if the passing isn’t there. 
 

[OtisDriftwood25]

Daniels is -180 odds on both DK and FD FYI.

[FootballZombie]

11 minutes ago, Destino said:

I think running QB is only valuable as a secondary skill. Icing on the cake.

 

Its an X factor.

If all you are is an X factor, your not much of anything.

 

If you are good and can then stack an X factor on top, It takes u 2 the next lvl.

[gooseneck]

 

[MartinC]

34 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Man, watching those Cunningham highlights, so brutal to consider what was lost: barely played his first two years, stupidly in my view,

 

He had the misfortune to have Buddy Ryan as his head coach who got the job off being the DC of the 85 Bears. Obviously put together a legendary D - but was clueless as a HC. He had the genius idea of introducing his rookie QB to the NFL by starting Jaworksi but subbing Cunningham in on 3rd and longs - the thinking being he could use his mobility to extend plays and maybe convert some 3rd downs using his legs. Ground breaking stuff 🫣

[Destino]

15 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Its an X factor.

If all you are is an X factor, your not much of anything.

 

If you are good and can then stack an X factor on top, It takes u 2 the next lvl.

it can be. It can also get your QB killed if they’re fast but not elusive. We’ve all had a front row seat for that. And since we all like college stats here is RG3 last season at baylor

 

72.4% 4,293yds 10.7avg 37TDs 6Ints

 

Impressive. Couldn’t pass if his life depended on it once he tried to be a pocket passer. The only thing that matters is if they can thrive passing it in the NFl. Everything else is noise not worth worrying about.

 

if out coaches think Daniels is a better passer than Maye, they need to take him. If they think Maye is a better passer, then he’s the choice. Ignore the running.

 

[Commander Wolffe]

 

[RabidFan]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Has anybody mentioned Fran Tarkenton a dual threat QB?

 

Before most of us were born but Fran is 7th on the all time QB rushing numbers.  My guy held that record for more than 20 years I think.  Young and Cunningham eventually got him.  

Loved that guy but see him more of a scrambling machine ala Archie Manning vs a break one for 55yds guy.  Flutie as well was elusive and **** but seemed to mostly always keep his eyes downfield if a WR opened up.  Such an unheralded skill and Howell seemed to have that....the size too.  LOL

[clskinsfan]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Yeah. Watching Herbert throw to Ekeler is kind of freakie. Maye does look like him on the field to some extent. 

[wit33]

I'm thrilled about the dual threat QB discussion! Let's keep putting it out there in the universe. Manifestation at its finest!

 

8 year QB works for me. 

[Commander Wolffe]