The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[ThatNFLChick]

Yeah now everyone thinks the Patriots will trade back. I think its definitely 75/25 they do

 

They mentioned it seems more and more likely on ESPN this morning

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

Yeah now everyone thinks the Patriots will trade back. I think its definitely 75/25 they do

 

They mentioned it seems more and more likely on ESPN this morning

 

My early prediction is they will trade back if Maye isn't available.

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

My early prediction is they will trade back if Maye isn't available.

 

He seems like their kind of QB and matches historically with the kind of QBs they have drafted so I agree with that. 

 

Then it becomes a question of how far they are willing to go back - #8 to the Falcons, #11 to the Vikings, or #13 to the Raiders

 

Of course a lot will depend on what happens with Kirk Cousins (I'm 50/50 on him staying in Minnesota). If he does stay obviously the Vikings don't move up. 

Edited February 19 by ThatNFLChick

[HTTRDynasty]

Not sure if the NFL.com QB evals have been posted to this thread yet.  Zierlein's grades were recently finalized:

 

Gives Williams a 6.76 (Year 1 Starter)

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/caleb-williams/32005749-4c17-6897-a516-9754023602e6

 

Williams’ play is highlighted by rare escapability paired with the talent to exploit defenses once the play breaks down. He’s not tall, but he is well-built, with an arm to challenge defenses across the field. He can be a high-impact playmaker on the go or an effective pocket passer when he allows himself to trust his eyes on second and third reads. He can improve his accuracy and placement on intermediate and deep throws, but he’s unlikely to be known for pinpoint accuracy. It is admirable that he looks to keep his eyes up and make throws outside the pocket, but he’ll make things easier on himself early in his pro career by becoming a more decisive scrambler to move the sticks and carry on to the next set of downs. Williams is tremendously talented but often bites off too much responsibility and plays off-schedule. He has a good chance to hit new heights with a surrounding cast he trusts, but greater self-discipline and a well-structured offense might be needed to help him become a quarterback who can elevate a franchise to championship contention.

 

Gives Daniels a 6.73 (Year 1 Starter)

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jayden-daniels/32004441-4e56-7618-ab61-f08cbf558acd

 

With five seasons of starting experience under his belt, Daniels possesses a rare blend of playmaking talent and command from the pocket. He’s tall but slender, so there will be concerns about durability, considering how often he ran in college. However, teams must also recognize that he has no issues sitting in the pocket and working through progressions as a platform thrower with good mechanics and footwork. Daniels possesses the football intelligence to get himself protected and take care of the football with quality decision-making. He’s an accurate passer over the first two levels and throws with anticipation to slice and dice zone coverages. He had noticeable issues putting deep throws on faster receivers in stride, though. He lacks ideal size and arm talent, but he’s much more capable as a runner and passer than most of the quarterbacks who have moved on to the next level lately. Daniels is positioned to become a very good NFL starter in a spread-based passing attack.

 

Gives Maye a 6.50  (Boom-Or-Bust Potential)

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/drake-maye/32004d41-5928-9639-2999-10019fb4c292

 

Challenging evaluation with top-flight measurables and tools but inconsistencies that create a lower floor. Maye’s size and arm talent jump off the tape immediately. He can make every throw, but he will try to make throws that he shouldn’t have attempted. The gunslinger mentality creates a fearlessness that can turn into interceptions, but it will also allow him to win in tight windows and make splash throws that get crowds (and evaluators) on their feet. He leaves too many throws on the back shoulder or hip and needs to learn when to take some sauce off the throw to make it more catchable. There is an undeniable energy to Maye’s game that can create momentum or turn chaotic when plays come off-schedule for him. The combination of traits and tape make him a boom/bust prospect who might need patient management and coaching to help shepherd him toward his potential.

 

Gives McCarthy a 6.36 (Will Eventually Be Plus Starter)

ttps://www.nfl.com/prospects/j.j.-mccarthy/32004d43-4318-9531-b3f5-120a14383239

 

Enigmatic quarterback lacking the measurables and splash throws associated with early round quarterbacks but possessing elements that require more study and consideration. McCarthy lacks frame thickness and a plus arm. He’s fairly poised in the pocket but is average as a pocket passer. His ball placement and timing need to improve to help mitigate an average operation time due to a windup release. McCarthy doesn’t seek to play out of structure but is fairly consistent at making positive plays when it happens and ramps up his focus late in games and on third downs. He is confident and seems to have the ability to take slights and digest it as competitive fuel. McCarthy should continue to improve as a passer, but he fails to stand out in many of the areas that tend to be predictive of top-level success in the NFL.

 

[clskinsfan]

55 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

He had noticeable issues putting deep throws on faster receivers in stride, though. He lacks ideal size and arm talent,

And yet he ranks him as his number two QB in the draft? Same exact concerns I saw on tape from Daniels. And that is a real problem in the NFL. Balls that hang or flutter are interceptions at the next level. We'll see I guess. 

[DogofWar1]

I wanna see Daniels show up to combine/etc. at 218-220 lbs and carry it in the right places, and then see where the convo goes from there.  Looking at heights/weights for NFL QBs if he can get to 223 (Goff being roughly 6'4", 223) then I think that'll change the debate a fair bit on one of his negatives.

Edited February 19 by DogofWar1

[ThatNFLChick]

15 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I wanna see Daniels show up to combine/etc. at 218-220 lbs and carry it in the right places, and then see where the convo goes from there.  Looking at heights/weights for NFL QBs if he can get to 223 (Goff being roughly 6'4", 223) then I think that'll change the debate a fair bit on one of his negatives.

 

Louis Riddick compared his frame to Goff too. At the combine Goff was 6'4" and weighed 215. 

 

Also Daniels was recently working out with Dak Prescott. Thought it was odd but apparently they have the same trainers. 

 

Like "can we get him for a 4th or 5th?"

 

 

Edited February 19 by ThatNFLChick

[DogofWar1]

9 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Louis Riddick compared his frame to Goff too. At the combine Goff was 6'4" and weighed 215. 

 

Also Daniels was recently working out with Dak Prescott. Thought it was odd but apparently they have the same trainers. 

 

Dak's kinda bigger right?  6'2" and allegedly 238.

 

If he's seeing Dak's trainer hopefully that guy has some tips about how to fill out a frame in a good way.

[bird_1972]

19 hours ago, Ghost of said:

Mccarthy injured his leg in the Penn State game and couldn't drive into his throws from the pocket. He could still do running and throws on the run but this was why playcalling changed. I've said this repeatedly in this thread.  

 

He only mostly healed after the big 10 title game. 

 

That said, I would not start him his first year he needs practice and mental reps his first year. He didn't start right away at Michigan and it was much better for him. Frankly a lot of guys benefit from sitting and getting garbage time reps for a year or more.

 

This may be a controversial take, but I would also like any QB we take at #2 to sit behind Sam (or whoever starts) for the first year to learn. I know when a QB is taken that high, there is pressure to start him right away but rarely does that seem to work even with the most talented players.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Not sure if the NFL.com QB evals have been posted to this thread yet.  Zierlein's grades were recently finalized:

 

I like Zierlein, but I definitely do not see eye to eye with him on QBs.  His QB evaluations are all over the place, and his history of grading the position is checkered.  He's got his grades going back ten years to 2014 on NFL.com, and over that span, these are his 20 highest graded QBs:

 

1 - Trevor Lawrence - 7.4

2 - Sam Darnold - 7.1

3 - Joe Burrow - 7.07

4 - Jared Goff, Mitch Trubisky, Jameis Winston - 7.0

7 - Bryce Young - 6.82

8 - Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota, Paxton Lynch, DeShaun Watson, Kyler Murray - 6.8

14 - Tua Tagavailoa - 6.77

15 - Carson Wentz, Baker Mayfield, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, CJ Stroud - 6.7

20 - Zach Wilson - 6.5

 

Nevermind the big misses on Darnold and Trubisky (his comps were Andrew Luck and Matt Stafford respectively), which were indefensible even at the time he gave them those grades.

 

He's trying to tell me that Caleb Williams is a lesser prospect than Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, and Paxton Lynch were?

 

He's trying to tell me that Drake Maye would only be tied with Zach Wilson as his 23rd best QB prospect of the last 10 years?

 

I'm sorry, but that is pure nonsense and flat out bad evaluation.  His grades don't have the coherency necessary to be meaningful.

[FootballZombie]

29 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

I wanna see Daniels show up to combine/etc. at 218-220 lbs and carry it in the right places, and then see where the convo goes from there.  Looking at heights/weights for NFL QBs if he can get to 223 (Goff being roughly 6'4", 223) then I think that'll change the debate a fair bit on one of his negatives.

 

My first question for Daniels at the combine interviews would be if he has heard the criticism that he has to protect himself better.

My second question would be what steps he is taking to help remedy that issue.

 

I'd want to hear how he has already of his own accord begun working with a slide coach.

 

 

Then I'd have my own slide coach appear from a poorly illuminated corner all Batman style and stand just behind him for the rest of the interview.

 

 

[NOLA2DC]

49 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Louis Riddick compared his frame to Goff too. At the combine Goff was 6'4" and weighed 215. 

 

Also Daniels was recently working out with Dak Prescott. Thought it was odd but apparently they have the same trainers. 

 

Like "can we get him for a 4th or 5th?"

 

 

I think they'll get at least a 2nd for him. They probably want a #1, but I don't see that happening. Although he hasn't won, there's too much production to pass up if you're a team that can't grab one of the top 3 QBs. The only downside is he only has one year left, but you could sign him to a two-year prove it deal like the Bucs did with Baker.  

[HTTRDynasty]

33 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I like Zierlein, but I definitely do not see eye to eye with him on QBs.  His QB evaluations are all over the place, and his history of grading the position is checkered.  He's got his grades going back ten years to 2014 on NFL.com, and over that span, these are his 20 highest graded QBs:

 

1 - Trevor Lawrence - 7.4

2 - Sam Darnold - 7.1

3 - Joe Burrow - 7.07

4 - Jared Goff, Mitch Trubisky, Jameis Winston - 7.0

7 - Bryce Young - 6.82

8 - Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, Marcus Mariota, Paxton Lynch, DeShaun Watson, Kyler Murray - 6.8

14 - Tua Tagavailoa - 6.77

15 - Carson Wentz, Baker Mayfield, Josh Rosen, Dwayne Haskins, CJ Stroud - 6.7

20 - Zach Wilson - 6.5

 

Nevermind the big misses on Darnold and Trubisky (his comps were Andrew Luck and Matt Stafford respectively), which were indefensible even at the time he gave them those grades.

 

He's trying to tell me that Caleb Williams is a lesser prospect than Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater, and Paxton Lynch were?

 

He's trying to tell me that Drake Maye would only be tied with Zach Wilson as his 23rd best QB prospect of the last 10 years?

 

I'm sorry, but that is pure nonsense and flat out bad evaluation.  His grades don't have the coherency necessary to be meaningful.

 

Yeah, I largely agree.  The only real meaning his rankings/grades have is the fact they're posted on the official NFL website under each prospect's combine profile (which doesn't count for much when it's all said and done, I know)… but it's still probably the most widely read breakdown/evaluation site on the internet.

 

I do admire the fact he's willing to put himself out there with annual grades that are easily tracked down and scrutinized by the public for posterity.  Opens himself up to a ton of ridicule that most others wouldn't.

Farrar also high on Daniels:

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

25 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

My first question for Daniels at the combine interviews would be if he has heard the criticism that he has to protect himself better.

My second question would be what steps he is taking to help remedy that issue.

 

I'd want to hear how he has already of his own accord begun working with a slide coach.

 

 

Then I'd have my own slide coach appear from a poorly illuminated corner all Batman style and stand just behind him for the rest of the interview.

 

 

This will some more fo that repetition that KDawg thinks makes this thread so special. But, once again, the issue with Daniels isn't solved by "slide more." The issue is the way he takes hits. He lacks the instinct to protect himself and his body has the tendency to whiplash himself when he does. Those aren't things that can be coached away.

 

You'd just as well ask Caleb Williams "Have you considered being a couple inches taller?"

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Yeah now everyone thinks the Patriots will trade back. I think its definitely 75/25 they do

 

They mentioned it seems more and more likely on ESPN this morning

They don’t have a QB. They are in a position to get one in a draft that has 3 blue chip prospects and next years draft looks much weaker at QB.

 

Just like us it’s really really unlikely they trade back. 

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, MartinC said:

They don’t have a QB. They are in a position to get one in a draft that has 3 blue chip prospects and next years draft looks much weaker at QB.

 

Just like us it’s really really unlikely they trade back. 

 

They do have a QB. They have two in fact - Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe. But on top of that the trade back rumor is because most think they go after a vet in FA. 

Edited February 19 by ThatNFLChick

[MartinC]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

 

They do have a QB. They have two in fact - Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe. 

Let me rephrase - they don’t have a QB with the potential to be a franchise QB. Or even a tenable average starting QB.

[wit33]

Imagine supporting a family as a slide coach is fantastic and increasingly essential, especially with the growing trend of quarterbacks relying on backyard football skills, agility and running. 
 

Disappointed that Jayden Daniels lacks a baseball history for sliding and exploring unique arm angles. I appreciate the concept of having an elite dual-threat player who can both navigate the field effectively (being taller) and maintain a smooth delivery. Typically, elite dual-threat athletes are smaller and struggle with inconsistent throwing motions, hindering their ability to establish early rhythm in an offense with their arms.

[DazedSkinsfan]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

They do have a QB. They have two in fact - Mac Jones and Bailey Zappe. But on top of that the trade back rumor is because most think they go after a vet in FA. 

So I guess we can go ahead and draft Harrison Jr then since we currently have two QBs also.  Harrison Jr it is I guess

[HTTRDynasty]

Brugler and Tice super high on Maye:

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Let me rephrase - they don’t have a QB with the potential to be a franchise QB. Or even a tenable average starting QB.

 

Lol, I edited. The rumor is that they are looking into taking a vet QB in free agency and then trading down in the draft for more assets because they need a lot of pieces. 

 

If Tannehill doesn't go to Pittsburgh, someone like him or Russell Wilson makes sense and they can draft a rookie they like in the later rounds to sit behind him while having more picks to fill out that roster.

 

 

3 minutes ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

So I guess we can go ahead and draft Harrison Jr then since we currently have two QBs also.  Harrison Jr it is I guess

 

I edited. The belief seems to be the Patriots are looking to bring in a vet QB, thats why the trade down is seen as more likely now. 

Edited February 19 by ThatNFLChick

[MartinC]

Just now, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Lol, I edited. The rumor is that they are looking into taking a vet QB in free agency and then trading down in the draft for more assets because they need a lot of pieces. 

 

If Tannehill doesn't go to Pittsburgh, someone like him or Russell Wilson makes sense and they can draft a rookie they like in the later rounds to sit behind him while having more pics to fill out that roster.

If you lack a franchise (or potential franchise) QB and are in a position to draft one without giving up assets in a trade up it would be madness to pass up the opportunity.

 

That assumes their evaluation is that they believe there are 3 potential franchise QBs in the draft of course. 
 

I really can’t see them trading back unless they just don’t like their options at QB in the draft. 

[NOLA2DC]

 

[ThatNFLChick]

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

If you lack a franchise (or potential franchise) QB and are in a position to draft one without giving up assets in a trade up it would be madness to pass up the opportunity.

 

That assumes their evaluation is that they believe there are 3 potential franchise QBs in the draft of course. 
 

I really can’t see them trading back unless they just don’t like their options at QB in the draft. 

 

We'll see but Breer and ESPN have been talking about it as a definitely possibility and we've seen some mock drafts shifting because of the talk. Also apparently Alex Van Pelt would prefer a vet (thats rumor)

Edited February 19 by ThatNFLChick