Skinsinparadise Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 37 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: This Air Raid argument is so silly to me. Do we really think Dan Quinn - you know, the guy who a) has coached against Kingsbury’s offense multiple times and b) gave Kyle Shanahan a chance before he became everyone’s favorite offensive matstermind - decided to hire a coach who would put us at some sort of structural disadvantage offensively with a subpar system? Really? I'd add I've digested a ton about Kliff this week. i talked about it on the GM thread. As to the ones who dig him and the ones not so much, they all agree his superpower is developing a QB. Hurts had his best season in the Air Raid and Brian Johnson helped develop him with the Eagles. So we got two dudes on staff who are famous for developing Air Raid college QBs. We got Quinn who hired Kyle Shanahan before he was seen as a cool hire -- now he's hiring Klingsbury. We got Peters who is regarded as one of the best evaluators in the NFL. I think we will be OK. 😎 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39445062/2024-senior-bowl-buzz-news-nfl-draft-prospects-cfb-offseason "Which NFL teams could move up for a quarterback? The Las Vegas Raiders (No. 13) might be a team to watch. New coach Antonio Pierce is a big fan of Jayden Daniels from their days together at Arizona State, and word is that Pierce evaluated offensive coordinators with the loose possibility of Daniels in mind. People around the league are keeping an eye on the Minnesota Vikings at No. 11, too. They did a lot of quarterback homework last offseason and could eventually target one high in the draft with free agent Kirk Cousins' future in Minnesota uncertain. But moving from No. 11 into the top three would cost GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah a ton of draft capital. -- Fowler" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: He's never going to amount to anything. Why are we paying attention to what he had to say YEARS ago? He's a loser. Bieineimy carried him. Now its Nagy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 20 minutes ago, mistertim said: That's not exclusive to "Air Raid" systems though. Very few college programs run what we'd consider full-on "pro style" offenses with full field reads, variable progressions based on what look the defense is giving, changes at the line pre and post snap, routes timed specifically to steps in the QBs dropback, etc. That's one of the reasons so many NFL teams are incorporating some elements of college offenses nowadays. It will be an adjustment for every QB. But I mentioned this one specifically Kurt Warner and the QB School have said going from the Air Raid to the NFL is the hardest transition in their opinion (which is why they are so critical of QBs coming from that system specifically) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39445062/2024-senior-bowl-buzz-news-nfl-draft-prospects-cfb-offseason "Which NFL teams could move up for a quarterback? The Las Vegas Raiders (No. 13) might be a team to watch. New coach Antonio Pierce is a big fan of Jayden Daniels from their days together at Arizona State, and word is that Pierce evaluated offensive coordinators with the loose possibility of Daniels in mind. People around the league are keeping an eye on the Minnesota Vikings at No. 11, too. They did a lot of quarterback homework last offseason and could eventually target one high in the draft with free agent Kirk Cousins' future in Minnesota uncertain. But moving from No. 11 into the top three would cost GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah a ton of draft capital. -- Fowler" Interesting. Daniels is likely gone by #3. I don't see the Patriots trade out of the opportunity to draft a QB to move down to #13. So the alternatives are the Bears keep Fields and trade #1 for an absolute monster deal with the Raiders. Or the Raiders try to trade up with us. And I honestly do not know what I would be willing to accept in any trade. The Rich Hill trade value chart would have to be thrown out. But an "even on paper" trade would be #13, #44, #77 and a 2025 1st. I would think we'd need at minimum a 2026 1st also thrown in for good measure. And even then, I think going down to #13 takes you out of range of securing a Top Tier talent. If we were set to trade down, I think I would prefer to go no lower than #8 with Atlanta. I would ask for a similar haul ... 1/2/3 and a future 1 at least. Maybe 2 future 1's. The only way I would consider going down to #13 is if we went from #2 to #3 first, got the Pats 2nd and a 2025 1st. That way, in going back to #13 and getting a 2nd + a 2025 and 2026 1st round picks, we'd be slated for 3 1st rounder in 2025 and 2 1st rounders in 2026. And in that scenario, in going from #2 to #13 we'd net 3 future 1st round picks and 2 early 2nds. We'd be set to draft #13, #35, #36, #40, #44 + 3 1st rounders in 2025 and 2 1st rounders in 2026. Edited February 8 by JamesMadisonSkins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander202 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Dan Quinn done a very good job putting together a staff . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39445062/2024-senior-bowl-buzz-news-nfl-draft-prospects-cfb-offseason "Which NFL teams could move up for a quarterback? The Las Vegas Raiders (No. 13) might be a team to watch. New coach Antonio Pierce is a big fan of Jayden Daniels from their days together at Arizona State, and word is that Pierce evaluated offensive coordinators with the loose possibility of Daniels in mind. People around the league are keeping an eye on the Minnesota Vikings at No. 11, too. They did a lot of quarterback homework last offseason and could eventually target one high in the draft with free agent Kirk Cousins' future in Minnesota uncertain. But moving from No. 11 into the top three would cost GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah a ton of draft capital. -- Fowler" The problem is all of them would have to get up to #1. The Bears COULD have interest in trading down. Probably don't. But could. The Commanders and Patriots are in desperate need of QBs, so neither is trading to 11 or 13 to move out of the first tier of prospects and lose out on the top 3 QBs. Unless one of the two teams falls in love with one of the second tier QBs, and has them rated higher than Maye or Daniels, or at least on-par. That seems unlikely but possible. I guess somebody could fall in love with Bo Nix, JJ McCarthy or Michael Penix. Personally, unless Adam Peters was to believe one of those guys graded exactly the same as Maye or Daniels, which I highly doubt, I would not want, let's say JJ McCarthy + extra picks, even if it was 2 additional firsts and a second (what we gave up to get Griffin.). I'd want the best graded QB at 2, and go from there. That's my philosophy. I'm sure somebody called up the Browns and offered 2 additional firsts + a second to move up and take Burrow. They hung up the phone and picked the QB and they're better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I'm sure somebody called up the Browns and offered 2 additional firsts + a second to move up and take Burrow. They hung up the phone and picked the QB and they're better for it. I think you're right. But the more interesting scenario would be if the Bears do decide to take Fields, and also leverage the #1 pick AGAIN. They could go from #1 to #13 ... in doing so they would likely add back a 2nd they traded for Sweat and then get 1sts in 2025 and 2026. The issue, is even if they turned around and offered the Pats #9 and #13 for #3 to take MHJ, there's no guarantee that gets accepted. Maybe the Cards would take that trade for #4, but hard to see the Bears go back that far and not try to come back for MHJ or Nabers. But the offer would have to be other-worldly, because I would think Atlanta would offer something similar and do so from #8. Heck, even the pats could be willing to go 3-1 and give up their 2nd and future 1st. And the Bears would be silly to turn both those down to go down to #13. Going 1-3 and drafting MHJ while adding a 2nd and future 1st would be the move. Of course, the offers gotta be there, and maybe LV is the only team that is making a real offer in that scenario. In which case, the Bears would have to be really married to Fields, which I don't know they are. And that's interesting for us, because the Raiders going from #13 to #1 to draft Jayden Daniels puts us in an extremely interesting situation ... Edited February 8 by JamesMadisonSkins 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunfer Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 if they trade for the 1st i doubt its going to be for Daniels 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 20 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/39445062/2024-senior-bowl-buzz-news-nfl-draft-prospects-cfb-offseason "Which NFL teams could move up for a quarterback? The Las Vegas Raiders (No. 13) might be a team to watch. New coach Antonio Pierce is a big fan of Jayden Daniels from their days together at Arizona State, and word is that Pierce evaluated offensive coordinators with the loose possibility of Daniels in mind. People around the league are keeping an eye on the Minnesota Vikings at No. 11, too. They did a lot of quarterback homework last offseason and could eventually target one high in the draft with free agent Kirk Cousins' future in Minnesota uncertain. But moving from No. 11 into the top three would cost GM Kwesi Adofo-Mensah a ton of draft capital. -- Fowler" I see what you did there. 20 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: word is that Pierce evaluated offensive coordinators with the loose possibility of Daniels in mind. Pierce wants Daniels Pierce tried to hire Kingsbury as his first option with Daniels in mind So Kingsbury = Daniels Ergo, we should be tying Kingsbury to Daniels Washington will draft Daniels because they hired Kingsbury Edited February 8 by HTTRDynasty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) 6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I see what you did there. Pierce wants Daniels Pierce thought he was getting Kingsbury So Kingsbury = Daniels Ergo, we should be tying Kingsbury to Daniels Washington will draft Daniels because they hired Kingsbury 😂😂😂😂 It was more like, what can we get if they really want to trade up? I like Daniels but also want the best team possible and say if they love McCarthy entertaining them or seeing what they offer is not a bad idea I am iffy on trading out of the top 10 but considering what the Panthers gave up to get Bryce, the Raiders also might be willing to offer a ton Edited February 8 by ThatNFLChick 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunfer Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 do teams sniff or even hammer out trades before the draft? Seems raiders best shot at top 3 would be moving up into top 6 or 7 prior to the pick they have their eyes on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: 😂😂😂😂 It was more like, what can we get if they really want to trade up? I like Daniels but also want the best team possible and say if they love McCarthy entertaining them or seeing what they offer is not a bad idea I am iffy on trading out of the top 10 but considering what the Panthers gave up to get Bryce, the Raiders also might be willing to offer a ton Haha, just messing around. And I agree. We should explore all options. But I would have to be absolutely blown away with a trade offer to move down from #2... probably more than the Bears received last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 11 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: And that's interesting for us, because the Raiders going from #13 to #1 to draft Jayden Daniels puts us in an extremely interesting situation ... No way in hell are the Raiders going to give up what would likely be three 1sts, three 2nds and more to move up for a huge boom/bust pick like Daniels at #1 overall. But if they did that would be absolutely fantastic for us, because then we'd then get to choose between Williams and Maye. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 4 minutes ago, mistertim said: No way in hell are the Raiders going to give up what would likely be three 1sts, three 2nds and more to move up for a huge boom/bust pick like Daniels at #1 overall. But if they did that would be absolutely fantastic for us, because then we'd then get to choose between Williams and Maye. Pierce and JD were together for three seasons at ASU, so Pierce probably knows more about the kid than any other NFL team. Marvin Lewis was also on that ASU staff and is now with the Raiders... Just saying there could definitely be some fire under this smoke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I really like the Johnson hire. He has worked with a couple of good developing QBs, most notably Hurts. Between him and Kliff, you got so much young QB introspective to use to help guide our new QB. I'm feeling pretty confident that he will at least get the coaching he will need to be successful. Will need more than that for everything to work out, but its a good start. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 7 minutes ago, illone said: Pierce and JD were together for three seasons at ASU, so Pierce probably knows more about the kid than any other NFL team. Marvin Lewis was also on that ASU staff and is now with the Raiders... Just saying there could definitely be some fire under this smoke. I could see if it Daniels falls. If he gets past the Pats then he could fall to around where Atlanta is picking and it would cost LV much less to leapfrog them and move from 13 to 7 than 13 to 1. 13 to 1 is just such a nutso trade for such a boom/bust prospect. That's like the Trey Lance trade on steroids. Sure, the coaches know him and probably like him, but they still have to be quite aware of questions around his game as well. He's far from a generational Luck level prospect with almost no holes in his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 On the Raiders and Daniels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 (edited) https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/02/07/top-quarterback-prospects-2024-nfl-draft/ 2024 NFL Draft Quarterbacks - The top three are certified studs. After that, is there still hope for a franchise savior? Caleb Williams, USC Williams can throw with every arm angle and snatch the ankles of unblocked rushers. His biggest haters have nothing to say about his ability on the field, which is normally a sign that he’s pretty good. Many analysts think he’s the best quarterback prospect since Trevor Lawrence. Some are taking it even further and saying he’s the best since Andrew Luck. Either way, he’s the clear top dog with a bright future. Player Comparison: Taller Kyler Murray (in a good way) Jayden Daniels, LSU Something clicked for Daniels in 2023. His film went from a player struggling to process the field to someone making confident, NFL level throws on a consistent basis. Throw in that he clearly packed on some weight and leveled up an already impressive rushing ability, Daniels is going to be a fan favorite in 2024. Player Comparison: Fox in Super Smash Bros but the dodge button doesn’t always work Drake Maye, UNC Maye is closer to Justin Herbert than Mitch Trubisky, but helmet scouts will still be nervous. He has a howitzer of an arm and can paint corners on every part of the field. If he continues on his trajectory, he can be a franchise cornerstone in no time. He was UNC’s second leading rusher in 2023 and is an underrated threat at the goal line. There’s a canyon between these top three prospects and the rest of the 2024 NFL Draft quarterback prospects. Player Comparison: Justin Herbert saying “Are you guys silly? I’m still gonna send it.” ... Bo Nix, UO Player Comparison: Fancy Kenny Pickett J.J. McCarthy, UM Player Comparison: The mystery box from Family Guy Edited February 8 by FootballZombie 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 minutes ago, mistertim said: I could see if it Daniels falls. If he gets past the Pats then he could fall to around where Atlanta is picking and it would cost LV much less to leapfrog them and move from 13 to 7 than 13 to 1. 13 to 1 is just such a nutso trade for such a boom/bust prospect. That's like the Trey Lance trade on steroids. Sure, the coaches know him and probably like him, but they still have to be quite aware of questions around his game as well. He's far from a generational Luck level prospect with almost no holes in his game. It goes farther than "liking" him. Pierce is basically like his big brother. He thanked Antonio Pierce in his Heisman speech. After the Raiders beat the Broncos, Pierce had Jayden in the locker Raiders locker room. If you watch his episode of The Pivot he and Ryan Clark talk about their relationship and how close both of them are to Antonio Pierce. The question is what can they give up? I honestly don't think Crosby or Adams will be on the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Dainels to radiers at number 1 sounds like a smoke screen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrFan Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Just now, FootballZombie said: https://lastwordonsports.com/nfl/2024/02/07/top-quarterback-prospects-2024-nfl-draft/ 2024 NFL Draft Quarterbacks - The top three are certified studs. After that, is there still hope for a franchise savior? Maybe Spencer Rattler ?, if he puts up a great combine performance he might climb up the draft board even more. https://247sports.com/Article/leading-nfl-draft-scout-gives-his-take-on-spencer-rattler-226818466/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Just now, FrFan said: Maybe Spencer Rattler ?, if he puts up a great combine performance he might climb up the draft board even more. https://247sports.com/Article/leading-nfl-draft-scout-gives-his-take-on-spencer-rattler-226818466/ I feel like Rattler is too short. He is barely 6 feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 5 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: It goes farther than "liking" him. Pierce is basically like his big brother. He thanked Antonio Pierce in his Heisman speech. After the Raiders beat the Broncos, Pierce had Jayden in the locker Raiders locker room. If you watch his episode of The Pivot he and Ryan Clark talk about their relationship and how close both of them are to Antonio Pierce. The question is what can they give up? I honestly don't think Crosby or Adams will be on the table. I mean, that's cool and all...but none of that means that they believe it would be worth giving up three 1st round picks and probably two 2nd round picks and/or a marquee player as well in order to trade up to #1 overall to pick Daniels. They're close personally and I'm sure they like him as a player, but they're also not morons. They'll know full well that he's big time boom/bust. Either way, even if the Raiders were loony enough to try that, I think there's almost zero chance the Bears would bite and pass up a chance at an elite talent at another position unless the Raiders were to absolutely blow them out of the water with a deal that would make Ditka blush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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