The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

I'm calling my shot now, which means I'm very likely wrong and the exact opposite is going to happen:

 

The Commanders are going to draft Drake Maye.

 

Kliff runs the same basic scheme as Maye ran in college.  

 

Having 2 QBs in the QB room who are friendly, were previously teammates, and already know the offensive terminology? Speeds up the learning curve significantly.  Not that the offense will be exactly the same, but I bet Kliff would adapt a lot of his terminology to what the QBs are familiar with to speed up the process.

 

Is that the right decision or not, I don't know.

 

But I'm putting 100 chips on the Drake Maye spot on the board.  

 

NOTE: I'm not advocating for this, I actually have no preference.  I'm connecting the dots.  I'm a dot connector.  Dot 1.  Dot 2.  Draw a line.

 

I think the Caleb William Dot is a distraction because the Bears are going to pick him. And he's going to go play in Chicago.  

 

That's my shot.  I called it.  In 3 months we'll see if I was right or if I was a fool. 

[mistertim]

10 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I believe his freshman year of high school. Why we are posting early teenage photos of QBs, I have no idea.

 

Because he hardly looks any different now?

 

[ThatNFLChick]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Because he hardly looks any different now?

 

 

 

Yes I can find a million pics too. What is the point? 

 

He has gained weight since then, there are videos of him being weighed at LSU.

 

I am fine debating actual play but this kind of stuff is insanely juvenile and silly. 

 

Edited February 8 by ThatNFLChick

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Except he has gained weight since then, there are videos of him being weighed at LSU so the point?

 

I am fine debating actual play but this kind of stuff is insanely juvenile and silly. 

 

Do you have a link to these videos of him being weighed that you've talked about before? I can't seem to find them.

 

And you don't seem to like debating his body type or his play. You generally just complain when people say anything negative about him and mostly respond with a long winded versions of "NUH-UH!"

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Do you have a link to these videos of him being weighed that you've talked about before? I can't seem to find them.

 

And you don't seem to like debating his body type or his play. You generally just complain when people say anything negative about him and mostly respond with a long winded versions of "NUH-UH!"

 

This is hilarious because besides SIP, nobody has posted more analytics, metrics, breakdown by analysts etc in this thread than me. Period. 

 

The fact that the same play of him being hit in a game is posted over and over and we are now resorting to posting pics of high school is silly.  

[clskinsfan]

8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

this kind of stuff is insanely juvenile and silly.

Ask a sports medicine specialist if body type as far as NFL longevity goes is juvenile and silly. Far from it.

[ThatNFLChick]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watch plenty of QB school myself as do others here.

 

Air Raid offense to name that traditional pro offense like WCO takes adjusting.

 

But how about an Air Raid offense to another Air Raid offense?  That's what we are talking about here versus adjusting to a different style offense. 

 

 

hilarious how?  

 

Though I'll give Eli, I thought he was a fairly even killed/boring dude but he's actually funny on the MNF broadcasts with his brother. 

 

Well QB School and Warner have said they don't think Air Raid QBs translate well to the NFL period. Its not specifically about going from one system to the other it you've seen them both talk about it.  It's because the Air Raid doesn't really force the QB to read the defense. No matter what the defense is doing, the progressions don't change. 

 

 

 

As far as Kingsbury, it will be interesting to see if he actually runs that. If Mark Bullock's breakdown he noted that his college offense was more of the "air raid' than his NFL offense. 

Edited February 8 by ThatNFLChick

[FootballZombie]

I'm still not shaking the idea that we most likely end up w/ JD at 2.

 

I'm not afraid of any of these guys in Air Raid.

I think they can all run Kliff's playbook, but given his usage of RPO and Read Option w/ Kyler, JD runs what we have seen of Kliff's NFL offensive philosophy best.

Our GM came from a staff that saw fit to trade up for a guy in Lance that had a massive dual threat upside, and JD is essentially a far better realized version of Lance.

 

 

I don't think that rules out Maye by any means, I think the opposite, but its hard for me to look at the Kliff hiring and not think that presents a massive boost to a guy in JD's wheelhouse. 

[CapsSkins]

Just now, FootballZombie said:

I'm still not shaking the idea that we most likely end up w/ JD at 2.

 

I'm not afraid of any of these guys in Air Raid.

I think they can all run Kliff's playbook, but given his usage of RPO and Read Option w/ Kyler, JD runs what we have seen of Kliff's NFL offensive philosophy best.

Our GM came from a staff that saw fit to trade up for a guy in Lance that had a massive dual threat upside, and JD is essentially a far better realized version of Lance.

 

 

I don't think that rules out Maye by any means, I think the opposite, but its hard for me to look at the Kliff hiring and not think that presents a massive boost to a guy in JD's wheelhouse. 

 

One of the big Qs about Jayden if not the biggest Q will be how the staff views his longevity given his body type.

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

This is hilarious because besides SIP, nobody has posted more analytics, metrics, breakdown by analysts etc in this thread than me. Period. 

 

The fact that the same play of him being hit in a game is posted over and over and we are now resorting to posting pics of high school is silly.  

 

Oh ****! The dreaded "period" that is an instant win in all arguments. Curses and double curses!

 

Anyway, I've posted quite a bit about what I like and don't like about Daniels, including the talent he's surrounded by, his lack of throws into tight windows, not often having to throw with anticipation, throwing very often to the boundaries when one of his star WRs is one on one, his penchant for locking on to his first read and then taking off if that's not there.

 

But sure, just pretend that I've only been posting videos of him getting hit-sticked and photos of him in his high school uniform if that makes you feel better.

[Ghost of]

What's interesting to me is that a guy who could run but was huge in Daunte Culpepper had a precipitous decline after a major knee injury.  And though he did have a great season or two, he was never the same because he was never really the pocket QB that other guys might have been to fall back on. 

 

Then we have a smaller guy, RG3, faster---still gets folded up like a cartoon. He had a good amount of overall weight but parts of him were slender but more than that, he was overly flexible in his knees (forget the term).

 

Ironically, I would feel a lot better about him if he were a pocket passer like Stroud and just happened to be thin. You can work with that. But if there's one thing I've noticed other than an Elway, Cunningham, and a few others, mobile guys who get hurt or just get slow have a harder time adjusting if they weren't also good in the pocket (or became much better like Cunningham).  So if Daniels gets hurt, there is no foundation for him to fall back on to be mainly a pocket guy.  At least Penix (who has flaws) used to be very mobile but showed he could basically work mostly in the pocket as he accumulated serious injuries.

[FootballZombie]

5 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

One of the big Qs about Jayden if not the biggest Q will be how the staff views his longevity given his body type.

 

Fair to question.

 

But for me, his size wont matter one iota if he does not improve in the field of protecting himself. He can be built like a truck, but he can't go out there and take running back level punishment. Its not sustainable for anybody. Josh Allen does not even do that for an entire year, just when in playoff mode.

 

Unless the guy is a Forbes-special 167 or 180 lbs, I'm far more concerned w/ teaching him best practices than I am about his size.

 

and before I question any of that I'd be more interested in determining how much faith I wanna put in the guy who showed he was a top of the draft prospect for only one year.

 

 

 

 

All these guys have Qs to parse tho. Jayden's don't scare me off anymore than Williams' or Maye's.

[Ghost of]

Just did a search and found this article with a..well, a young Patrick Mahomes (speaking of Air Raid QBs) and Kliff Kingsbury.

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2703712-watching-tape-with-patrick-mahomes-the-myth-of-the-air-raid-quarterback

 

Quote

"Our offense is a lot more complex than the old Air Raid, because Coach Kingsbury, coming from the NFL, has made it more complex," Mahomes concluded. "And that's why it's so successful."

 

Pretty good article and shows the football mind of Mahomes before the NFL.

[FootballZombie]

Just now, Ghost of said:

Pretty good article and shows the football mind of Mahomes before the NFL.

 

Mahomes has himself said he could not read a D until after he reached the NFL.

 

I would seriously hope all 3 prospects are farther along the mental development path than he was, and I like to think they have all at least shown some flash that they are.

[Tyler Spiers]

41 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

 

Yes I can find a million pics too. What is the point? 

 

He has gained weight since then, there are videos of him being weighed at LSU.

 

I am fine debating actual play but this kind of stuff is insanely juvenile and silly. 

 

If he's gonna run around all crazy like RG3, definitely don't want him. But if they are going to create a pocket heavy offense for him and protect him so he only needs to run when it's completely safe, I'd be very happy with that. Definitely start Howell next season until the OL is steady enough for whatever rookie you get, whether if be Daniels or Maye.

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Mahomes has himself said he could not read a D until after he reached the NFL.

 

I would seriously hope all 3 prospects are farther along the mental development path than he was, and I like to think they have all at least shown some flash that they are.

 

I think that's a little over-sold. He said he understood the basics but not a lot of the nuances and that's where experience came in. "I understood coverages but not how to be able to pick up little tendencies that defenses do, stuff that Brady and them have done, they know it and they just do it,"

 

So it's not like he was wandering around completely clueless as to how defenses worked, he just needed to study and get the experience to be able to understand and spot the nuances and take advantage of them more.

 

 

Edited February 8 by mistertim

[ThatNFLChick]

Someone made the point for me. The biggest knock on the Air Raid is it doesn't require the QB to really know how to read  a defense which is why a lot of scouts and analysts are often skeptical of guys coming out of that system in college. 

 

Mahomes sitting behind and learning from Alex Smith and watching film with him really helped him with the adjustment (which Mahomes has said numerous times)

Edited February 8 by ThatNFLChick

[HTTRDynasty]

This Air Raid argument is so silly to me. 

 

Do we really think Dan Quinn - you know, the guy who a) has coached against Kingsbury’s offense multiple times and b) gave Kyle Shanahan a chance before he became everyone’s favorite offensive matstermind - decided to hire a coach who would put us at some sort of structural disadvantage offensively with a subpar system?

 

Really?

[ThatNFLChick]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

This Air Raid argument is so silly to me. 

 

Do we really think Dan Quinn - you know, the guy who a) has coached against Kingsbury’s offense multiple times and b) gave Kyle Shanahan a chance before he became everyone’s favorite offensive matstermind - decided to hire a coach who would put us at some sort of structural disadvantage offensively with a subpar system?

 

Really?

 

I don't think its about what system Kingsbury puts in place, its more about QBs coming from that system adjusting to the NFL and the defenses they see/will face

Edited February 8 by ThatNFLChick

[WashingtonRedWolves]

JD definitely has RG3 vibes, the way he pulls it down and just goes Elastic Man running all over the field.

Remember how RG3 got hurt. He was running around the EXACT same way with limbs and **** flying everywhere, and the sheer law of averages eventually caught up with him and one day an opponent's body was plowing through the space occupied by his flailing knee.

If you're an NFL QB and you're constantly trying to contort your body to slip away from every defender on the field then someone is going to come through and lay you out.

Less than 2% of NCAA players make it to the pros, nevermind start or play defense.

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't think its about what system Kingsbury puts in place, its more about QBs coming from that system adjusting to the NFL and the defenses they see/will face

 

That's not exclusive to "Air Raid" systems though. Very few college programs run what we'd consider full-on "pro style" offenses with full field reads, variable progressions based on what look the defense is giving, changes at the line pre and post snap, routes timed specifically to steps in the QBs dropback, etc. That's one of the reasons so many NFL teams are incorporating some elements of college offenses nowadays.

[HTTRDynasty]

20 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't think its about what system Kingsbury puts in place, its more about QBs coming from that system adjusting to the NFL and the defenses they see/will face

 

My point is that the system itself isn't inherently inferior to others (e.g., WCO), it's just different.  And like any other system, it needs to evolve and adjust to what defenses are doing to stop it in order to be effective.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Well QB School and Warner have said they don't think Air Raid QBs translate well to the NFL period. Its not specifically about going from one system to the other it you've seen them both talk about it.  It's because the Air Raid doesn't really force the QB to read the defense. No matter what the defense is doing, the progressions don't change. 

 

 

 

As far as Kingsbury, it will be interesting to see if he actually runs that. If Mark Bullock's breakdown he noted that his college offense was more of the "air raid' than his NFL offense. 

 

Drake played under multiple coordinators.  He reputation wise is a smart dude.  He will have to adjust though like most QBs on a number of fronts which I and others have pointed out.  Jayden has some adjustments to do too.  I posted eons ago a stats that Jayden when flushed out of the pocket runs an ordinate amount of times -- if i recall more than double the standard QB including those with mobility.  He can't just take off that much in the NFL.  Teams will put a speed LB or safety to spy on him.  Also, he needs to throw more with anticipation IMO.

 

As to Air Raid QBs -- Mahomes, Kyler Murray, Hurts (in Okla), Mayfield, Goff.  i think we will be OK if its Maye especially considering the offense he played with Longo is very similar to Klingsbury offense. 

 

https://www.on3.com/college/north-carolina-tar-heels/news/chip-lindsey-reveals-whats-surprised-him-about-drake-maye/

 

Chip Lindsey know he was getting a fantastic quarterback in Drake Maye when he signed on to be North Carolina’s offensive coordinator, but there’s still a bevy of things that surprised him.

Speaking with the media as the duo prepares for the 2023 season, Lindsey revealed what exactly the surprises were, including Maye’s football smarts.

“I think the thing that probably I didn’t know before is he’s really intelligent. He’s really smart. Football smart. His football IQ is really high,” responded Lindsey. “I mean, he does well in school. He’s got a great GPA and all that, but he understands every aspect of offense. From offensive line play, to who should be working to who in zone schemes, to who we’re working to in pass sets. In pass protections, he’s able to change the protection. That’s something that he’s taken to really quickly, and they did some of that before too. But I think that would be the thing, I mean not knowing him from the outside, you see the talent.

“You see the physical skills. That hadn’t surprised me a bit. But getting here and realizing he’s a football junkie. He understands football. He loves it, and very, very intelligent player.”

Meanwhile, there’s still things that Lindsey wants Maye to work on that come straight from his mind, although the offensive coordinator recognizes that the North Carolina quarterback has a pretty good handle on everything already.

 

“When you play that position, the team, they respond to you,” added Lindsey. “So your body language, your energy, your attitude always needs to be good. You’ve got to be a guy that can bring people with you and lead them, and he has that natural ability. I think, he’s only really been the starter here for one year, and I wasn’t here last year, but when he became that starter, he probably earned that by the way he approached every day in practice. Then he went out and played well on top of it, so now he’s got credibility, right? Now when he says something, those guys listen. I’ve seen him interact with our players, all the positions, they look him in the eye when he’s talking to them. I think that he’s got natural leadership ability.

“Things that I want him to know, from a standpoint of leading our offense, is just to be confident. Be positive. Be able to correct guys without demeaning them and down-playing them. I think he does a great job of mixing that. There’s a time to really get after someone, and there’s a time when to encourage, and I think he’s got a really good knack of being able to do that.”

 

 

[bird_1972]

https://x.com/granthpaulsen/status/1755697244937085276?s=20

[Voice_of_Reason]

55 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

Pretty good article and shows the football mind of Mahomes before the NFL.

He's never going to amount to anything.  Why are we paying attention to what he had to say YEARS ago?