The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HTTRDynasty]

5 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Luck was a 10. Williams is not a 10. Luck had a big time body.

The reason I thought that was interesting is because it was coming from Luck’s former college coach. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Jets "expect" it.   It's like saying we "expect" a first round pick for Forbes if we put him on the trading block.

 

 

 

[FootballZombie]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Jets "expect" it.   It's like saying we "expect" a first round pick for Forbes if we put him on the trading block.

 

Do CFL teams count?

[UK Skins]

Wasn't it Wilson with the ultra hot Mum? Perhaps we are talking about different types of suitors!

[Ball Security]

Saw a headline that Teddy Bridgewater is retiring. For those thinking about a Ben Johnson connected vet backup.

[wit33]

18 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Imagine if they had the 20th ranked D instead of by far the 1st. 

 

They'd have finished 8-8 with a decent year from their QB. 

 

Uncover more layers, as there's much more to explore:

 

- #4 scoring offense
- Gus Edwards with 13 rushing TDs (considered an average RB for Baltimore)
- #8 in time of possession
- #4 in team rushing touchdowns
- #1 in rushing yards per game

 

Set aside personal bias, embrace the numbers, and let new perspectives unfold. You're welcome.

 

 

17 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Not having an injury can come down to straight up luck many times. Daniels looks like he's built out of twizzlers and I'd be shocked if he was actually 200 lbs on game days. It's mostly miraculous that he didn't have any major injuries with some of the brutal hits that he took. And in the NFL the vast majority of guys are going to be even bigger and faster. So unless he learns to protect himself better, it's probably just a matter of time.

He needs to improve self-protection, and it's frustrating that he lacks a baseball slide, a skill often mastered. Despite this, what makes him intriguing is his apparent good spatial awareness and attributes that enable him to avoid significant hits, especially along the sidelines.

 

Absolutely, the allure of a high floor and immediate impact from a great to elite dual-threat QB is undeniable. The elite ones tend to avoid busts and offer significant returns, particularly during their rookie contracts. 
 

Whether they can win a SB like Russell Wilson or get to one like Kaepernick, Newton or Hurts is another story. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Conn said:

This conversation has gone around in circles for a month now already, so I’ll stop after this. 
 

But Lamar Jackson protects himself. He has a supernatural sixth sense for incoming defenders and insane spatial awareness. That is what Daniels does not have right now. That’s the “doesn’t protect himself” that everyone’s talking about. I refer you to my last post about how NFL teams need to decide for themselves how they will evaluate his ability to develop that skill (or not).  

Which has what to do with his comment about the placement of the throw?

 

Completely agree regarding Lamar's skill in avoiding hits; he's essentially a QB with RB-like skills and awareness.

 

I'm fascinated by Daniels' throwing mechanics in comparison to other elite dual-threat players. I envision him thriving in a Ben Johnson-type offense, consistently making the kind of throws Goff has executed in recent seasons.

 

Daniels appears capable of bringing instant rhythm to an offense, especially with scripted plays and fundamental passes that make up a substantial portion (50-70%) of throws in a game. Generally, the elite dual threat guys must provide rhythm through the run game, play action, and screen game. Your thoughts?

 

13 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Lamar, like Manning, is an exceptional regular season QB who has had the misfortune of playing in the same era and conference as a top 3 QB of all time.

 

 

 

Say it louder so the back can hear it. 
 

I also compared Lamar’s regular season winning to Peyton (post his rookie season). 
 

Peyton….51-29

Lamar…..58-19

 

 

Edited January 30 by wit33

[klwilkins1977]

Gotta love Adam Schefter...🤣

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

STRENGTHS

Maye possesses an elite arm that allows him to get the ball to his desired target despite not being in the best throwing position. Arm strength isn’t all about how far one can throw the ball, as the velocity that they throw with is just as important. Maye has that velocity that allows him to fit the ball into tight windows.

 

He’s shown an elite ability to operate in the middle of the field. He had a 94.8 PFF passing grade on throws in between the college hashes, which led all FBS quarterbacks with at least 50 attempts. To be a consistent passer over the middle of the field, quarterbacks need to be on time with their progressions, and Maye can do that at a consistently high level. He knows how to hold underneath defenders with his eyes while throwing the ball right behind them with good anticipation.

 

SUMMARY

Overall, there’s a lot to really like about Drake Maye’s game. He’s shown an ability to process plays at a high level from the pocket while also being able to make plays outside of the pocket. He’s a prototypical new-age quarterback who isn’t reliant on one set of skills. He has the toolbox that every NFL franchise is looking for. There’s an obvious maturation process that he needs to go through in terms of understanding what he can and can’t get away with at the NFL level, but that’s where good coaching comes into play. With the right coaching, I could see Maye being talked about as a future top-10 quarterback in the NFL.

Where I would draft him: Top-five pick

Edited January 30 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

Rank

1

 

Caleb Williams

USC · QB · Junior

Williams has average height and a thick/muscular build. He is a natural thrower and delivers the ball with accuracy/velocity from a variety of platforms and arm angles. He can power the ball into tight windows while stationary or on the move. He can also finesse the ball when needed. He has lightning-quick hands in the RPO game. He’s a dynamic runner and makes defenders look silly in space. He can run by you, through you or make you miss. He did fall into some bad habits at USC during the 2023 season. He hunts big plays and always looks to exhaust plays with his legs instead of taking checkdowns. Also, he can get too loose with the ball when creating, swinging it wildly, which leads to fumbles. His creativity makes him special, but he will need to play more on schedule at the next level. Overall, Williams has areas in which he needs to improve, but he has franchise-altering upside.  

Rank

4

 

Drake Maye

North Carolina · QB · Sophomore (RS)

Maye has prototypical size, athleticism and arm strength. He has quick feet and quick hands, but his delivery can get long at times. He’s a gifted thrower who drives the ball without much foot space in the pocket (including with defenders hanging on him). He can take pace off the ball on swings and shallow crossers. He has a nice touch on bucket throws down the field. He is athletic to escape and create with his legs and he’s tough to tackle in space. He is ultra-competitive as a runner, something he'll need to dial back a bit at the next level. His pass protection wasn’t good last season at North Carolina and there weren’t always answers in the route to bail him out, which led to some poor decisions and carelessness with the ball. Overall, Maye has some things to clean up, but he has every ingredient to be a top-tier starter at the game's most important position.  

 

Rank

5

 

Jayden Daniels

LSU · QB · Senior

Daniels is a tall/lean quarterback with exceptional accuracy, decision-making and speed. He is very poised and comfortable in the pocket. He likes to use a rhythm bounce at the top of his drop before settling his feet into the ground and smoothly transferring his weight to throw. He has an extremely quick release and beautiful throwing motion. He throws with anticipation, touch and accuracy. He flashes the ability to manipulate safeties with his eyes to create separation downfield. When he gets pressured, he doesn’t hesitate to explode out of the pocket. He has elite suddenness. He is more of a linear/speed runner than a break-down/make-you-miss type of ball-carrier. He needs to do a better job of protecting himself, though, as he took some huge hits in the games I studied. Overall, Daniels took a massive leap in 2023 and now offers both a high floor and ceiling.  

 

Rank

23

 

Bo Nix

Oregon · QB · Senior

Nix is an experienced quarterback (61 starts at Oregon and Auburn) with outstanding accuracy and toughness. He has average height and a thick/sturdy frame. He is at his best in the quick-rhythm passing game. He has quick feet in his setup, scans the field with urgency and accurately delivers the ball. He has a compact release and generates velocity to drive the ball to all three levels. He shows touch to layer the ball over linebackers and under safeties. He is accurate on designed rollouts. He does need to improve habits under duress, though, as he occasionally fails to feel back-side run-throughs and also falls off some throws when faced with interior pressure. He’s an urgent athlete and is effective as a runner, especially on zone reads. His coaches rave about his leadership and toughness. Overall, Nix’s combination of competitiveness, intelligence and experience reminds me of Jalen Hurts coming out of college. 

 

Rank

27

 

J.J. McCarthy

Michigan · QB · Junior

McCarthy is a lean, athletic quarterback with a live/loose arm. He is very consistent because of his ability to always throw from a firm base, with his feet and eyes connected. He is selectively aggressive as a passer. He has the combination of velocity and accuracy to fit balls into tight windows, but he is also very comfortable taking checkdowns and piling up completions. He is very efficient. He shows the touch to take speed off the ball underneath and provide optimal run-after-catch ball location. The only throws that gave him some trouble were over-the-top outside shots, as he let too many of those leak and end up out of bounds. He is a very explosive straight-line runner. Overall, other quarterbacks in this class have more volume in the passing game, but it’s hard to argue with McCarthy's results. I see some similarities to Alex Smith coming out of college. 

 

Rank

40

 

Michael Penix Jr.

Washington · QB · Senior

Penix has exceptional arm strength and toughness. He has a unique, whippy, three-quarters delivery from the left side and the ball explodes out of his hand. He can hang on his back foot and effortlessly drive the ball 55 yards. He excels driving throws outside and tosses a beautiful, lofting deep ball. He does have issues getting throws up and down in the middle of the field. His ball can stay flat. He is quick to process and consistently gets to No. 3 in the route progression. He flashed the ability to avoid, escape and create against Texas in the College Football Playoff. He’s been through a litany of injuries during his career, but he managed to overcome them and led Washington to the national title game. Overall, durability is a legitimate concern, but I believe in his combination of vision, accuracy and arm strength. 

[The Consigliere]

15 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Yeah the wide receiver talk was pretty disrespectful. It was like draft him as a QB or don't but asking him to basically test and run routes like a WR was insane.

 

 

Not that far removed from teams outright doing that to Terrelle Pryor a decade earlier. Not the same prospect of course, but a similar situation, a lot of NFL people just saw athlete and not QB. 

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Lamar, like Manning, is an exceptional regular season QB who has had the misfortune of playing in the same era and conference as a top 3 QB of all time.

 

 

 

Otoh, he also didn't ever push Tennessee over the top either, it would be Tee Martin that did that. They went 0-4 against Florida in the Manning years. I can't find his stats from the game, but they basically got shellacked in '94 when Manning eventually won the job (not sure if he played in it, doubt it), got shellacked again in '95 (62-37) although it appears more of a defensive issue, '96 was tight, but another loss, 35-29 and in his final year they lost again 33-20. They finally beat them 20-17 with Tee Martin the following year (before winning the championship). Looks like he went 3-1 in his bowl games, beating Va Tech in '94, #4 ranked Ohio State in '95, Northwestern in '96, and then lost his last game in a shellacking against #2 ranked Nebraska in '97 (42-17). I assume he played that, not sure.

 

Suffice it to say, while I was never a Leaf guy, I wasn't a Manning guy either. Having such a ---- record at elevating his team made me suspicious. Never beat Florida, only beat 1 of the 2 strong teams he played in bowl games? I just wasn't that impressed (I'm more impressed today). You could watch the guy, and see this guy is going to be hugely productive in the NFL, that was obvious, but I was highly, highly skeptical he could win big games. Not fair to him to pin those losses on him, but the losses are there, and then the NFL was exactly the same thing: he lost nearly every big game he ever played against a powerhouse. Even his big Super Bowl win was against the pathetic Bears who fluked their way to the Super Bowl that season and had no chance from the jump. I give him credit for finally getting there, and that comeback against the Patriots was classic, but we know that like Mara in the NFC East, instead of figuring out how to deal with the Patriots, the Colts instead made the league change the rules to make it easier to deal with their defense. Pretty weak sauce in my view. And even then, Brady still largely owned them, the win over the Bears is silly (Rex Grossman? Please), they lost to Drew Brees and the Saints, and later won in spite of Manning in his finale season when the Brock Lobster was outplaying him, and Mannings Neck and arm appeared ready to snap and break. 

 

Great talent, first class mind, fantastic QB, but whatever magic Montana, Brady, now Mahomes, and earlier with Johnny U and Bart Starr, and Otto Graham? What made them lock's in any big game? Manning never, ever had that. He rarely ever produced his best performances when the pressure hit. He just didn't, and when it comes to elite athletes, what puts players over the top like those guys, or Jeter in baseball (Kirk Gibson in '88 etc), Gretzky in hockey, Jordan in basketball, is that ability to just find another level or not drop a level, when the pressure hit. Manning never had that. The big question mark for me is how good Marino might have been if he'd had a legit GM building his teams. Instead he had to make do with much lesser builds, like Elway as well but Elway finally got a truly well constructed team just in time for his final 3 seasons. No such luck for Marino. 

Edited January 30 by The Consigliere

[FootballZombie]

I don't have a lot of space between the big 3 prospects so my main factor in choosing a guy was what kind of O did we want to run.

 

Now that Ben Johnson is staying is Det, I'm in straight limbo over here.

 

Quantum Void.

 

 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Jets "expect" it.   It's like saying we "expect" a first round pick for Forbes if we put him on the trading block.

 

 

 

Thats hilarious. He's a mega bust, and even worse, seems to be a chemistry killer which is hard to do. 

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

I don't have a lot of space between the big 3 prospects so my main factor in choosing a guy was what kind of O did we want to run.

 

Now that Ben Johnson is staying is Det, I'm in straight limbo over here.

 

Quantum Void.

 

 

Yeah my interest in Maye was pairing him with Johnson. It was a match made in heaven. Now? I don't know. I think if we get Macdonald, pairing him with Jayden Daniels could be like Ravens 2.0. But I still have reservations with him as a passer.

[Dark Acre]

I had a long chat with a very close friend who's a 9ers fan (given that we live in/near San Francisco).  His position was that the Commies should draft MHjr. because he's a sure-bet Hall of Famer. I asked who would throw the ball to him.  "Figure it out."  Ok....

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[wit33]

 

2 hours ago, CapsSkins said:

Count me in Camp MacDonald. I was offense or bust but Slowik doesn’t appear to be much of a hot commodity.

 

MacDonald is my fav of those remaining — we can figure something else out for OC.

 

Might be a competitive edge if you secure one of the lone defensive minds that provides a chance against all the nerdy OCs and offensive head coaches. 
 

His defense recovered well and showed up under the bright lights in the AFC championship game. 

 

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah my interest in Maye was pairing him with Johnson. It was a match made in heaven. Now? I don't know. I think if we get Macdonald, pairing him with Jayden Daniels could be like Ravens 2.0. But I still have reservations with him as a passer.

 

 

His throwing motion is intriguing, especially when considering his potential to consistently make the elementary throws that an OC frequently schemes. Unlike many elite dual-threat players with awkward or inconsistent throwing motions, Daniels seems to have a smoother approach, raising hopes for accuracy on basic throws. However, the true test of his processing abilities and adaptation will only be revealed in live game situations.

 

He's already on track to elevate a team's run offense to a top-5 level, but if he can combine that with consistent accuracy on strategically designed throws, that adds an intriguing dimension and an elevated floor. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[Ghost of]

MacDonald (who I was behind from the beginning, better culture, proved it on huge stage at Michigan, was part of organizational transformation at Michigan, had historic success this year):

 

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

Definitely think Houston saw Ben Johnson pull out of the Commanders and Seahawks gig and said "Lets see if we can convince Bobby to stay by giving him a raise before Seattle and/or Washington come calling again."

[HTTRDynasty]

Lance is clearly low on the Josh Allen (6.40), Justin Herbert (6.45), Drake Maye (6.50) QB types.

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[El Mexican]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:02 PM, ThatNFLChick said:

 

What if they watch film, do all the interviews, talk to everyone and decide they REALLY like JJ McCarthy. He fits Johnson's scheme, he's taken the most snaps under center, etc. 

 

Are you opposed to them trading down to get him?

 

I'm actually convinced we need to take TWO QBs, a la the Shanny draft that landed us RGIII and Cousins.

 

Take two guys and your bust rate is reduced by half.