The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[RWJ]

18 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

This video is Exhibit A of why height/weight/strength/frame, etc. matters so much.  He's able to throw accurate passes with guys hanging off him.  You can definitely see why he's so often compared to Big Ben and Josh Allen with these plays.

 

 

Can Daniels improvise like this though, @ThatNFLChick?

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I could understand all hand wringing if he had an injury history or something. Many people have pointed out he's older than other prospects, cool, that means he's played a lot of ball against a lot of good defensive and offensive players and been fine.

 

Played Justin Herbert and a good Oregon defense and beat them.

Played Bryce Young and a good Alabama defense and beat them.

Played Anthony Richardson and beat him too. 

 

My concern with Daniels with regards to his frame isn't injury history, it's injury risk. Guys who take more hits are going to be more prone to injury; pretty straightforward. We've seen at LSU that he's not especially adept at avoiding big hits. IMO part of that is likely mental (which is admirable, but dumb) and part of it is likely physical. Daniels doesn't have the same sort of crazy shiftiness that a guy like Lamar has which allows him to be so good at avoiding huge hits.

 

I do like Daniels as a prospect from a pure talent and upside point of view, but I also have enough concerns for him to be a somewhat distant 3rd at the moment behind Williams and Maye. 

Edited January 24 by mistertim

[Ghost of]

48 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

It's not that difficult . I work with actors who do weight traing constantly depending on the role.

 

 

Hollywood don't test like the NFL, there's your answer. You really think a middle-aged Dwayne Johnson looks more sculpted now than when he was at his peak form in wrestling? Or that the dude who plays Reacher just really dedicated himself to the role?

[Dah-Dee]

Don't really think concerns about Jayden Daniels' weight, and taking hard hits, should be a significant factor in evaluating him as a prospect; he played 26 games in the SEC last 2 years at LSU, didn't miss a game due to injury. He's also put on a lot of muscle weight during college - can you believe he weighed 158 (!) as a freshman at ASU? He weighed 185 beginning of his first year at LSU. He played 2023 at 210+ according to multiple reports in his well-documented journey to get bigger. At 6'4", I can see him realistically putting on another 10-15 pounds in his first couple/few years in the NFL.

 

I think people might forget that one of the big concerns about Lamar Jackson coming out of Louisville, and into his first year at Baltimore, was whether his slight frame (even now, he's only listed at 212) could hold up to NFL hits. Ravens were worried because the dude would *never* slide. I think I saw a stat in one article where during his first two years in the NFL (31 games), Jackson slid a total of 2 times.

 

Now I totally agree that Lamar Jackson seems other-worldly in his ability to get out of bounds or otherwise avoid big hits, which Daniels hasn't shown as much aptitude for - yet - but I do see signs that Daniels is getting better there. For example, he took 43 sacks for LSU in 2022, but only 22 this year, and a lot of that difference was not because the OL was much better (it really wasn't), but because he's gotten better at throwing the ball away (something RG3 regrettably never really learned to do) and escaping pressure. I'm also impressed with Daniels soaking up all the VR and other analytics/tech-driven training LSU devoted to him, resulting in better footwork and quicker reads that clearly paid off in his 2023 performance; that's a good indicator, I think, that he'll be coachable on sliding/avoiding/getting out of bounds etc. - and I did see Daniels using the slide this year. It's just a matter of using it more consistently.

 

I do see similarities in the running styles for Daniels and Jackson - both 'glide' rather than sprint, surveying the field as they run. Jackson seems to have a much stronger arm; but I think Daniels' is good enough to make all the throws - remember, he was ridiculously accurate and productive on deep balls at LSU (but thank you Malik/Brian).

So, I get the worries about Daniels' weight, and ability to take hits, but I think maybe part of that is our collective PTSD from watching 165-pound Forbes get completely bullied this year. Seems like Daniels is a different animal.

[ThatNFLChick]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

Hollywood don't test like the NFL, there's your answer. You really think a middle-aged Dwayne Johnson looks more sculpted now than when he was at his peak form in wrestling? Or that the dude who plays Reacher just really dedicated himself to the role?

 

Why are you using extreme examples? How about Jeremy Allen White? Who looked totally different just before he started working out and training for IronClaw

[Ghost of]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Why are you using extreme examples? How about Jeremy Allen White? Who looked totally different just before he started working out and training for IronClaw

I'm using two huge guys. Let me be more clear, they don't test actors for use of PEDs, therefore you can be assured that most of the significant transformations (mostly mass, I don't think anyone is taking much to perform longer as an actor) are due to that. It's an open secret.  That said, if you're fat or skinny-fat you can certainly do better.  Oh here's one that is absolutely not natural, Kumail Nanjani.

 

The key part is that I don't care, they're just actors. You can put weight on in college, you're still growing. You can, of course, get in better shape as an NFLer, I just don't think it makes sense to expect a guy like Daniels to put on weight now, at age 23+, at least not enough weight (and naturally) to improve his game and agility.

[ThatNFLChick]

Also as far as Drake Maye is concerned. I was excited to dig into him when it looked like we were getting a top 5 pick because I had heard analysts talk about him. The problem was I just did not like his 2023 tape at all (I felt the same way about Howell). I saw the wow throws or plays once or twice a game but that didn't outweigh all the other stuff I didn't like. 

 

I felt that he played down to competition

He struggled against terrible teams in games where they were favored

He would have random inexplicable misses and the offense would just stall for full quarters or more

He would never step up in the pocket, he was constantly drifting to the side when he felt pressure

He also isn't good at evading pressure and it felt like he was too often creating his own

I don't love his throwing motion or his footwork

I don't like that in both 2022 and 2023 his accuracy fell towards the end of the season

 

 

He has flashes for sure but he was just way, way too inconsistent 

 

[bh32]

35 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Also as far as Drake Maye is concerned. I was excited to dig into him when it looked like we were getting a top 5 pick because I had heard analysts talk about him. The problem was I just did not like his 2023 tape at all (I felt the same way about Howell). I saw the wow throws or plays once or twice a game but that didn't outweigh all the other stuff I didn't like. 

 

I felt that he played down to competition

He struggled against terrible teams in games where they were favored

He would have random inexplicable misses and the offense would just stall for full quarters or more

He would never step up in the pocket, he was constantly drifting to the side when he felt pressure

He also isn't good at evading pressure and it felt like he was too often creating his own

I don't love his throwing motion or his footwork

I don't like that in both 2022 and 2023 his accuracy fell towards the end of the season

 

 

He has flashes for sure but he was just way, way too inconsistent 

 

We know Maye sucks in your eyes and Daniels is the next Lamar Jackson..no need for the scouts or GM to evaluate any further as you have done it for them.lol

[ThatNFLChick]

8 minutes ago, bh32 said:

We know Maye sucks in your eyes and Daniels is the next Lamar Jackson..no need for the scouts or GM to evaluate any further as you have done it for them.lol

 

Lol, are you taking this personally? Hilarious. After pages of debate, not about actual play, but about whether or not someone will break Daniels in half including someone alluding to him literally dying? 

 

It's like people have decided who we are picking and are outraged if anyone has a dissenting opinion (much the same way everyone here acts outraged at the mere suggestion of trading down as though they know 100% what will happen momths from now). 

 

And I also said the comp I like for Daniels is Cunningham more than Jackson. 

Edited January 25 by ThatNFLChick

[kingdaddy]

50 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Also as far as Drake Maye is concerned. I was excited to dig into him when it looked like we were getting a top 5 pick because I had heard analysts talk about him. The problem was I just did not like his 2023 tape at all (I felt the same way about Howell). I saw the wow throws or plays once or twice a game but that didn't outweigh all the other stuff I didn't like. 

 

I felt that he played down to competition

He struggled against terrible teams in games where they were favored

He would have random inexplicable misses and the offense would just stall for full quarters or more

He would never step up in the pocket, he was constantly drifting to the side when he felt pressure

He also isn't good at evading pressure and it felt like he was too often creating his own

I don't love his throwing motion or his footwork

I don't like that in both 2022 and 2023 his accuracy fell towards the end of the season

 

 

He has flashes for sure but he was just way, way too inconsistent 

 

How would you rate Maye vs JJ McCarthy? Just curious...

[RandyHolt]

Do we still think NFL players or guys leaving college never do roids?

 

From what I learned years ago there are some that can be out of your system in 2 weeks.

[mac8887]

8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Lol, are you taking this personally? Hilarious. After pages of debate, not about actual play, but about whether or not someone will break Daniels in half including someone alluding to him literally dying? 

 

And I also said the comp I like for Daniels is Cunningham more than Jackson. 

Jayden daniels is special. I really like that out of the top 3 qbs, he is the only one we can know for sure hasn't shown signs of peaking yet. The other 2 showed us regression this last year, while jayden showed us something truly amazing and was by far the most improved player in college football. 

 

In free agency you always want to get a guy on his way up, I think it would be good to try to do the same while drafting guys.

Edited January 25 by mac8887

[bh32]

4 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Lol, are you taking this personally? Hilarious. After pages of debate, not about actual play, but about whether or not someone will break Daniels in half including someone alluding to him literally dying? 

 

It's like people have decided who we are picking and are outraged if anyone has a dissenting opinion (much the same way everyone here acts outraged at the mere suggestion of trading down as though they know 100% what will happen momths from now). 

 

And I also said the comp I like for Daniels is Cunningham more than Jackson. 

No not taking it personally..your just constantly pointing out negatives about Maye and prop up Daniels like he is a superior prospect when in all actuality Maye is the better prospect in the eyes of just about every legit talent evaluator..Yes Maye has things that he needs to correct just like every QB in the draft. 

[ThatNFLChick]

11 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

How would you rate Maye vs JJ McCarthy? Just curious...

 

I like Maye better than McCarthy. I said I would go back and watch because of things that Albright has said about teams being way higher on McCarthy than people think - but I just don't see anything special there.

 

Someone posted an article here though that really made me think, it was about Mahomes and it was basically saying that people assumed he couldn't do things because he didn't do it much in college. Its the same way with Stroud, people assumed he couldn't handle pressure just because he never saw a ton of it. 

 

So with JJ I kind of want to watch him again in that context. He just wasn't asked to do a lot but it doesn't necessarily mean he can't. I just felt very meh on him at first watch (and he has such little pressure on him because of how stellar the defense was).

 

 

6 minutes ago, bh32 said:

No not taking it personally..your just constantly pointing out negatives about Maye and prop up Daniels like he is a superior prospect when in all actuality Maye is the better prospect in the eyes of just about every legit talent evaluator..Yes Maye has things that he needs to correct just like every QB in the draft. 

 

Lol, if every "legit talent evaluator" agrees you have no reason to be so concerned about my opinion then

Edited January 25 by ThatNFLChick

[RWJ]

Take it to the bank if Allbright says it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bh32]

1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I like Maye better than McCarthy. I said I would go back and watch because a lot of things that Albright has said about teams been way higher on McCarthy than people think but I just don't see anything special there.

 

Someone posted an article here though that really made me think, it was about Mahomes and it was basically saying that people assumed he couldn't do things because he didn't do it much in college. Its the same way with Stroud, people assumed he couldn't handle pressure just because he never saw a ton of it. 

 

So with JJ I kind of want to watch him again in that context. He just wasn't asked to do a lot but it doesn't necessarily mean he can't. I just felt very meh on him at first watch (and he has such little pressure on him because of how stellar the defense was).

 

 

 

Lol, if every "legit talent evaluator" agrees you have no reason to be so concerned about my opinion then

I'm not concerned..

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

(much the same way everyone here acts outraged at the mere suggestion of trading down as though they know 100% what will happen momths from now). 

 

Hey, if people are going to make it easy for me to poke fun at them, I'm taking the oppo.

 

Speaking of which, b4 anybody gets any bright ideas...

 

[HeHateMe75]

4 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

It's not that difficult . I work with actors who do weight traing constantly depending on the role. Daniels already put on weight from 22 to 23, it was reported in every LSU publication (U posted an article in this very thread)

 

But all this worrying about weight is silly IMO. I get it when its someone like Bryce Young, there's nothing you can do about his height. Put him on a meal plan/weight system, he'll be fine. Also for the people who are like "well but why couldn't he do it at LSU", well first of all he did and 2nd, I am sure everyone knows there is a difference between splitting your time with school and being able to focus on ball and training, etc full time when you're in the NFL. 

 

 

 

That has zero to do with professional athletes and how their bodies will respond after adding weight/muscle.  

[ThatNFLChick]

Speaking of JJ McCarthy 

 

 

 

Edited January 25 by ThatNFLChick

[HeHateMe75]

I'd like to see us draft Maye at #2.  I wasn't sold on him earlier, but have grown to think he would be better than Williams or Daniels in the long run.  

[mistertim]

I do like some things about McCarthy but I also think it's a bit tough to evaluate a guy in his situation because he wasn't really asked to do all that much, as he was part of a team with a fearsome defense and extremely effective rushing attack.

 

Though I'm a bit dubious about his arm talent. He seems to be able to make all the throws for the most part, but I've also definitely noticed that on intermediate and out routes where he needs to get the ball there on time he tends to really have to put everything into the throw for it to get there with enough zip. He's not Colt McCoy level, but I'd say he's probably got an average to slightly below average NFL arm.

[TheGoodBits]

1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Speaking of JJ McCarthy 

 

 

 

My somewhat controversial QB ranking is Maye, Williams, McCarthy, Daniels. Big caveat that the knock on Caleb is only related to some of the personality/coachability concerns. If your interview process with him makes you feel good, he’s hands down #1. 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I was just watching Caleb vs Washington and my first thought was "he seemed to throw 100 screens during this game"

[bearrock]

That's interesting.  One would think a high percentage of yards from screens would be a bad thing, but it looks like there's really no correlation between that and NFL success.