The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[The Consigliere]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I have zero aversion to going QB at #2, which I've said multiple times.

 

I'm just not saying that it's a 100% lock that we automatically have to and that any other option is not a possibility. 

 

And I'm certainly not going to be an asshole to anyone that entertains the possibility that our long term plan, which we've been told is happening, may not mean we are forcing a QB at the second pick.

 

When Peters went to SF, they brought in a vet and built a solid foundation for a team. Then went balls out for a QB, missed but struck out and got lucky with Purdy.

 

Peters first year in SF they signed 2 FA QBs and drafted one later and it was a surprise that they didn't move up on Trubisky and they passed on Mahommes.

 

2018 they traded for Jimmy G midseason. 2019 they needed a QB had the #2 pick and what did they do? The went DE. Sounds familiar    But they didn't reach for Lock or Haskins.

 

Then they doubled down on DL the next year, still needing a QB.

 

This is starting to sound familiar.

 

Broncos sucked in 2011 and had a QB controversy between Kyle Orton and Tebow, so what did they do in 2012? Sign Payton Manning

 

The point is, where Peters has been they have brought in FA QBs to run the team, before going to the draft and drafted DL (Von Miller, Kinlaw, Bosa) in the top 5.

 

Don't be surprised if we sign a QB, drop back and draft Verse at 6 is my point.

I think they did very much a similar thing to what the Chiefs did when Reid arrived there. They waited at QB because they didn't like the classes. Now they were wrong to not like them, and Reid was right in his case ('13-'16 were all terrible to mediocre classes, the second they liked a class, '17, they went after it). In fairness to the Niners, they were right about Trubisky, scared off for whatever reason by Watson and Mahomes (neither of whom was ever going top 3 because of poor evals league wide that year), and because of that, they targeted Jimmy G in a trade at a time when Jimmy G was viewed as the best upside QB bar none from the '13-17 draft era that was actually available, and they traded for him. It was much celebrated at the time and he killed it for them. Rumors were that they also wanted to trade for Cousins, but our GM was too freaking stupid to trade him to them. What seems pretty clear to me is that their plan for QB was stealing Cousins from us, or Garoppolo from New England and considering both were viewed as top 10-13 talents in the league, and neither were old (Cousins if acquired was in year 6, probably 28, Garppolo was in I think year 4 or 5 and like 26). It's important to note. How many of us would have hated that? In '17 before we knew Garoppolo was basically going to fall off, and become injury prone on top of it, it would be like acquiring a top end QB on the cheap, it was, and is not ANYTHING like getting Marc Boonell's or Donovan McNabb's or Alex Smith's retirement tour, it was basically the Chargers Brees strategy, stealing an elite QB for cheap. In '17 it looked like they hit a grand slam, Garoppolo went 5-0 after the team had looked awful in a 1-10 start, completed 59.6, 5 TD's, 3 picks, and the niners for all intents and purposes looked like they'd stolen a franchise QB for a 2nd rounder, and Bill Simmons was screaming bloody murder that the pats had traded away Garoppolo for nothing just to spite Tom Brady and Bob Kraft. 

 

Not surprisingly they passed on QB thinking they had their guy in early '18. Then the '18 disaster comes but its about an injury anyway, not poor performance, but as we all know, the '19 class was/is utter dog ----, and so you can't go QB there, and why not believe there's hope with Jimmy G, and Nickels and Haskins and the like are pointless. So they pass. In '19 they go 13-3 with Garoppolo having a career year, suggesting he is the stud from the patriots and late '17, and when the bottom falls out again in '20, its a Garoppolo injury yet again, to blame. But this time, with Garoppolo missing 2 of his first 3 seasons for the most part with the Niners, they finally pull the trigger on a trade. 

 

I don't believe for a second the Peters strategy at QB, was build the rest first then solve QB, or a Redskins/Ron strategy. They thought they'd solved it with Garoppolo, and based on his performance when healthy in '17, '19, and '21, it looked like they were right, but he missed nearly all of '18 and most of '20 to injury, and after that, with a team that was as good as it was in '19, when Garoppolo was healthy, they decided to roll the dice on another QB if Garoppolo couldn't stay healthy who could make them into the Ravens model of the NFC. But Lance was every bit as injury prone as Garoppolo and so neither was an answer. 

 

That's the story, at least from my perspective living out here in California. 

 

Now as for the Broncos and Manning. That kind of seems pretty simple doesn't it? Dude was literally leading the Colts to best team in the NFL not named the Patriots virtually every season for a decade. Why wouldn't they be interested. Everyone wanted Peyton that offseason except the Colts. I just see a qualitative difference between slumming it with like Boonell or McNabb's course, and what the Niners did with Garoppolo and the Broncos with Manning. Doesn't seem similar to me at all. 

 

While anythings possible, I just find it largely impossible to believe they will do that. Now if this was the 2013-2017 or 2019 or 2022 drafts, I'd totally buy it. Picking a QB #2 in those classes was either highly speculative (Bortles, Mariota, Wentz, Trubisky) or outright insane (Nickels). But this isn't those classes. It isn't a wtf type guy like Bortles, a scheme guy like Mariota, a small school guy like Wentz, a guy with teeny amount of starts like Trubisky, or an ugly cv like Nickels. It's a guy whose apparently got an evaluation from most scouts putting him as the #3 QB from the combined '21 through '25 classes (which included a lot of really good QB's unlike the mostly horrid '13-'17, and '19 and '22 years). 

 

So I'd put it at probably:

80% Maye

10% Daniels

9% Williams

1% something else. 

 

That's part of the reason I'm annoyed. It's a message board, and debate is important, and valuable as always, but in this case, I think it's largely pointless in the same way debating what would happen at 1 and 2 in 1993, 1998, 2023 etc. To me it's like speculating on what direction the Spurs would go last summer, there was no point in speculating. We already knew. So it was largely just talking for talking's state. I like the value of people having their rock solid takes in the open here so we can at least talk out how a failure, if its a failure, happened, why, how to avoid it with better process next time, or why it's just randomness, and unavoidable etc, which is why I do want to hear people's takes, but at the same time, I don't see a lot of value in entertaining trade down ideas for dozens upon dozens of pages when its almost certain not to happen. Post that take, sure. I see the value in that. But post back and forth for 40 pages on why yes and why no, seems wasteful. Otoh, its also the point. 

 

[The Consigliere]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I think people are missing the general point here.

 

The fact is, you need a franchise QB to sustain success in the NFL. This is irrefutable. 
 

The best way to getting one is drafting your own and developing him. Yes, there are examples of trades and FAs, but they are very rare. Banking on a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady to be available is silly. 

So you gotta draft one. Historically the best QBs are drafted in the first round. No they arent all top 5 or top 10, but theyre all high picks. Again, there are exceptions, but you cant bank on finding a Brady or Purdy. Their teams didnt draft them with the thought theyd be their starting QB. 
 

So here we are, sitting with the SECOND pick in the draft in what appears to be a loaded QB class. Now does that guarantee anything? Of course not. But by all counts there are three(at least)highly prized QB prospects. We have an opportunity to take one. A franchise QB is a necessity. 
 

But but but “we can trade down and get someone later.” Sure, that is possible. But again, how do you know the guy you want will be there? Youre settling for a lesser caliber prospect at the most important position and not even guaranteeing yourself a chance at getting him. 
 

But but but “we can build up our team and try to get one next year”. Sure, but what if there is noone good available? Could be like 2022 where all the QB options sucked. Or we end up winning like 7 games and stuck in a position where we have to reach for someone not as highly regarded. Or there are good prospects but none available for us because we dont have a high enough pick. Sure it could be like when Love and Jackson were available later in the 1st but how likely is that? Youre passing up an opportunity where you KNOW you have a shot at a franchise altering QB in the FIRST year of a new regime for a complete unknown.

 

But but but “what if the new FO doesn’t like any of the QB options?” Ok thats a possibility and if thats truly the case we have to respect that and trust their evaluation, but it would certainly be a big time minority opinion. But as of right now we can only work under the assumption that, at the very least, there are three legit big time QB prospects and we got a shot at one. We got a shot at getting out of football poverty for the next decade. Lets take it. 

FTR, as much as I like Peters, I'm never one to just "accept that and trust their judgement". Nope, never. If you're gonna stray from the herd, you need to be right about it, or have damn good process to justify straying. The best stray, yes, but they've got the receipts to judge it by. If Peters goes off the board and drafts some guy ranked QB 6 at #2 overall or trades down for the latest iteration of Forbes/Jamin level stupidity, I'm not gonna be happy. Pretty much agree with everything else. I reserve the right to ---- on decisions I think are bad. 

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

Count me in camp “nothing to do with Russell Wilson”. I’d be pretty out on this regime if they made that move I think.

1000% out. Wilson showed he was donezo his last season in Seattle and then proved it in Denver. Cousins's wasn't good enough to win big games in '17, why is he suddenly totally acceptable for a 2nd worst in the league team in '24? Makes zero sense. 1000% out on those ideas and especially any GM loony enough to choose that path instead. 

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

What about Kirk? Sign him to a 3 year deal with an out after two and draft JJ around 20 after trading back twice and adding draft capital for this and next year.

Yes, his contract.

Less than zero interest in both ideas. Don't see any reasonable expectation JJ is any better than middle of the road, which is the high end of the past 30 years of suck, and Kirk isn't coming here #1, and cannot win when it matters anyway. Wilson is donezo. Not sure why you are taking as proof a middle chunk of the season when he was poor at the beginning, and the end, and was terrible in '21 and '22. The proof is in. He still has some out of the pocket genius every once in a blue moon magic, but he's not a viable anything long term or short. 

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I called the Kirk pick in the draft and I'm calling his triumphant return now. He'll be one of the only players to be both a Skin and a Commie and maybe even a Redwolf and the only one not to be an WTFer.

 

Resign Cousins,trade back twice, draft Verse, move up for JJ.  

 

Let it be known.

 

*fanbase explodes* We go deep in the playoffs.

We win 5-6 games, lose whatever prime time tv game the league gives us with a late game pick 6 lol. Two can play at this game. 😁

[mac8887]

After watching Lamar take over the game yesterday in the 2nd half, I'm really hoping that we draft jayden daniels to be our qb.

 

Having that speed at the qb position is a cheat code. Draft jayden daniels and then find a way to get the guy from liberty back him up. I think his name was Malik. 

 

That way we can build an offense to jaydens strength and have a backup that can come in for any reason and not have to drastically change the offense.

Edited January 21 by mac8887

[CommandB11]

5 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

After watching Lamar take over the game yesterday in the 2nd half, I'm really hoping that we draft jayden daniels to be our qb.

 

Having that speed at the qb position is a cheat code. Draft jayden daniels and then find a way to get the guy from liberty back him up. I think his name was Malik. 

 

That way we can build an offense to jaydens strength and have a backup that can come in for any reason and not have to drastically change the offense.

Is this for real? Actual living breathing individuals think these things? Seek help please!!!!!!!

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

After watching Lamar take over the game yesterday in the 2nd half, I'm really hoping that we draft jayden daniels to be our qb.

 

Having that speed at the qb position is a cheat code. Draft jayden daniels and then find a way to get the guy from liberty back him up. I think his name was Malik. 

 

That way we can build an offense to jaydens strength and have a backup that can come in for any reason and not have to drastically change the offense.

I can see your point with Daniels but Malik freaking Willis? Really? He is truly awful. One of the worst to ever try playing QB in the NFL. 

 

Also, while Daniels is fast, he doesn't have Jackson's quick twitch agility and wiggle. He's more RG3 than Lamar Jackson. With a simiilar slight frame. Also, Jackson was drafted at age 21. Daniels is 23. The upside isn't as high.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't hate Daniels. If we were picking 3rd I'd be all over him. But I don't think his style of play will be as sustainable as someone like Maye even if he might be the more entertaining player to watch early in their careers.

[mac8887]

Just now, Warhead36 said:

I can see your point with Daniels but Malik freaking Willis? Really? He is truly awful. One of the worst to ever try playing QB in the NFL. 

 

Also, while Daniels is fast, he doesn't have Jackson's quick twitch agility and wiggle. He's more RG3 than Lamar Jackson. With a simiilar slight frame. Also, Jackson was drafted at age 21. Daniels is 23. The upside isn't as high.

 

Don't get me wrong I don't hate Daniels. If we were picking 3rd I'd be all over him. But I don't think his style of play will be as sustainable as someone like Maye even if he might be the more entertaining player to watch early in their careers.

What concerns me most about maye is the uva game. I'm a uva fan and they stink, but they made maye look like hot garbage.

 

Don't get me wrong, I know Malik is not good, but if you go with someone like daniels, I think it would be more beneficial to be able to run the same offense as your starter.

 

The ravens backup is able to run the same offense as Lamar. Not nearly as good but he can run it.

 

It doesn't have to be Malik, but there are very few qbs that have the elite speed trait. 

[Commander202]

5 hours ago, PeterMP said:

 

But his contract isn't an issue if he had a great year.  His contract requires him to be great.  And he's not.  Brees made huge money in NO, and it was never a problem.  The issue with Wilson is the quality of the play doesn't match the contract.

 

Add me as somebody that doesn't think Cousins or Wilson make any sense.

 

Unfortunately, there's nobody that is particularly attractive on the FA market given our situation.

Idk man , if Ben Johnson comes here I don’t think he has any issues working with a vet qb. Between Russ and Kirk , Russ will easily be cheaper and is someone I think fits to what Johnson likes to do which is a lot of play actions and won’t throw a ton of picks . 

[klwilkins1977]

My bet is on Peter's drafting an OT with the #2 pick and taking a chance with Howell learning under an OC with a more balanced attack and a better OL. It's not the popular (at least not popular with E.S.), but it is the BEST option: taking a Tackle who will be able to be plugged in for 10-12 years and be an almost certain All-Pro.

 

There is enough meat left on the Howell bone (giggitty) to warrant giving Howell another look.  The kid almost threw for 4k... and showed long flashes of brilliance. Don't forget there was Pro Bowl talk surrounding him before the prolonged TEAM slide.  

 

There isn't a person here who can make a case that our OL can afford to pass on either of Fashanu or Alt. We know what Howell can do behind a bad line.  What can he do with a more balanced scheme and a better line?  We need to know before we let him go.

[CommandB11]

8 minutes ago, klwilkins1977 said:

My bet is on Peter's drafting an OT with the #2 pick and taking a chance with Howell learning under an OC with a more balanced attack and a better OL. It's not the popular (at least not popular with E.S.), but it is the BEST option: taking a Tackle who will be able to be plugged in for 10-12 years and be an almost certain All-Pro.

 

There is enough meat left on the Howell bone (giggitty) to warrant giving Howell another look.  The kid almost threw for 4k... and showed long flashes of brilliance. Don't forget there was Pro Bowl talk surrounding him before the prolonged TEAM slide.  

 

There isn't a person here who can make a case that our OL can afford to pass on either of Fashanu or Alt. We know what Howell can do behind a bad line.  What can he do with a more balanced scheme and a better line?  We need to know before we let him go.

I sure am glad you arent in charge.

[HTTRDynasty]

17 minutes ago, klwilkins1977 said:

My bet is on Peter's drafting an OT with the #2 pick and taking a chance with Howell learning under an OC with a more balanced attack and a better OL. It's not the popular (at least not popular with E.S.), but it is the BEST option: taking a Tackle who will be able to be plugged in for 10-12 years and be an almost certain All-Pro.

 

There is enough meat left on the Howell bone (giggitty) to warrant giving Howell another look.  The kid almost threw for 4k... and showed long flashes of brilliance. Don't forget there was Pro Bowl talk surrounding him before the prolonged TEAM slide.  

 

There isn't a person here who can make a case that our OL can afford to pass on either of Fashanu or Alt. We know what Howell can do behind a bad line.  What can he do with a more balanced scheme and a better line?  We need to know before we let him go.

I will never understand takes like this. The bust rate for OL is on par with the bust rate at QB. Why would you not go with drafting the position who adds 10x more value (at least) if the odds of them busting are about the same?

 

Would you rather take a 55% chance to win $100k or a 42% chance to win $1 million. You’re basically advocating for the former, which makes no sense. 

 

[klwilkins1977]

23 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I will never understand takes like this. The bust rate for OL is on par with the bust rate at QB. Why would you not go with drafting the position who adds 10x more value (at least) if the odds of them busting are about the same?

 

Would you rather take a 55% chance to win $100k or a 42% chance to win $1 million. You’re basically advocating for the former, which makes no sense. 

Bortles, Manziel, Winston, Mariota, Wentz, Lynch, Trubisky, Rosen, Darnold, Wilson: all busts in the past decade.  Reaching for a QB is rife with peril that can set this regime back years.  We HAVE to hit with that pick and for my money drafting a sure fire Tackle prospect who is destined to be a Pro Bowler at the very least is not a gamble at all.

[HTTRDynasty]

5 minutes ago, klwilkins1977 said:

Bortles, Manziel, Winston, Mariota, Wentz, Lynch, Trubisky, Rosen, Darnold, Wilson: all busts in the past decade.  Reaching for a QB is rife with peril that can set this regime back years.  We HAVE to hit with that pick and for my money drafting a sure fire Tackle prospect who is destined to be a Pro Bowler at the very least is not a gamble at all.

And there have been no busts at OT?  Did you even read what I wrote or did you just go full Jim Carrey?

 

[CapsSkins]

Sam Howell's ceiling could be Baker Mayfield. Won't happen here, but the guy has a shot to be a starting QB in this league yet.

[Warhead36]

13 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

And there have been no busts at OT?  Did you even read what I wrote or did you just go full Jim Carrey?

 

Yeah man I just...I can't with these kind of takes. I can at least kinda understand the trade down and draft another QB camp. I can understand staying at 2 and drafting Marvin Harrison jr. But staying at 2 and drafting a freaking TACKLE? Really? In one of the deepest T drafts ever? 

 

I just...I can't...

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, mac8887 said:

After watching Lamar take over the game yesterday in the 2nd half, I'm really hoping that we draft jayden daniels to be our qb

I dont understand this take. Daniels is nowhere close to Lamar in arm or running ability. 

[mac8887]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont understand this take. Daniels is nowhere close to Lamar in arm or running ability. 

Every pundit agrees that daniels is a much more accurate passer than Lamar coming out of college. He might not be the same runner, but to say they are nowhere close to the same runner would be disingenuous. Daniels has elite speed and on his first day in the nfl he will already be the 2nd most dangerous runner at the qb position 

[Dexter]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I called the Kirk pick in the draft and I'm calling his triumphant return now. He'll be one of the only players to be both a Skin and a Commie and maybe even a Redwolf and the only one not to be an WTFer.

 

Resign Cousins,trade back twice, draft Verse, move up for JJ.  

 

Let it be known.

 

*fanbase explodes* We go deep in the playoffs.

I wouldn't waste a second round pick on JJ.  I DO like the idea of bringing in Cousins, but he ain't coming back to DC.

 

I'm just glad I'm not calling the shots because this is an ultra hard draft to navigate for us.

 

I like Marvin Harrison Jr but I'm drafting BROCK BOWERS.  I think he is going to be the cornerstone of this offense.  

I love Jayden Daniels and I think he's a risky but sky high ceiling....but I'm drafting BOWERS.

Caleb is talented but one weird kid....we could move up to the top pick and he say he's not coming to DC.....I'm drafting BOWERS.

Deep class of OLine and we can get one in the 2nd round....draft BOWERS.

[clskinsfan]

2 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Every pundit agrees that daniels is a much more accurate passer than Lamar coming out of college. He might not be the same runner, but to say they are nowhere close to the same runner would be disingenuous. Daniels has elite speed and on his first day in the nfl he will already be the 2nd most dangerous runner at the qb position 

Daniels arm strength is average to good. Lamar's is elite. Lamar is far more elusive than Daniels as well. They really are not comparable players. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

Daniels arm strength is average to good. Lamar's is elite. Lamar is far more elusive than Daniels as well. They really are not comparable players. 

Lamar was also two years younger when he came out. And Jd has a very frail body. Dude is an injury waiting to happen. 

[seantaylor=god]

19 minutes ago, Dexter said:

I wouldn't waste a second round pick on JJ.  I DO like the idea of bringing in Cousins, but he ain't coming back to DC.

 

I'm just glad I'm not calling the shots because this is an ultra hard draft to navigate for us.

 

I like Marvin Harrison Jr but I'm drafting BROCK BOWERS.  I think he is going to be the cornerstone of this offense.  

I love Jayden Daniels and I think he's a risky but sky high ceiling....but I'm drafting BOWERS.

Caleb is talented but one weird kid....we could move up to the top pick and he say he's not coming to DC.....I'm drafting BOWERS.

Deep class of OLine and we can get one in the 2nd round....draft BOWERS.

So what do you think of Brock Bowers? 

[Warhead36]

Taking a TE 2nd overall…man I cant bro I just cant

[rumplestilskin]

42 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Taking a TE 2nd overall…man I cant bro I just cant

But what if Bowers ends up like Logan Thomas and transitions to QB? I bet you would think it was worth it then? LOL

Edited January 22 by rumplestilskin

[Dark Acre]

3 hours ago, CommandB11 said:

I sure am glad you arent in charge.

But he's allowed to post.

 

Look, if you're going to pass on QB at #2, you don't do it to take a tackle when the son of Marvin Harrison, Jr. is blazing downfield just waiting for that hail Mary.  How many HOF OTs have SB rings?  Not that they don't deserve them (it's a team effort), but OTs don't make jaw-dropping catches in the endzone, burst through a crease at the LOS and outrun the defense for a 75 yd TD.  At a certain point, you max out the utility of any offensive lineman.  We had Chris Samuels and, later, Trent Williams and where did they get us?  Don't get me wrong, if you have a fluke bad year and end up with the #2 and need an OT badly, ok, but we can get good enough production out of the 2nd round.

[ThatNFLChick]

4 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Daniels arm strength is average to good. Lamar's is elite. Lamar is far more elusive than Daniels as well. They really are not comparable players. 

 

Does elite arm strength matter that much? Every scout has said Daniels doesn't have elite arm strength but can make all the throws.  Does it matter beyond that? Why? It didn't matter for Brady or Manning? It doesn't matter for Goff who is on his way to an NFC Championship now. 

 

Josh Allen has elite arm strength, hasn't been able to get it done and just went 26/39 for only 185 yards and 1 TD with a stud WR and TE in the most important game he will probably ever play (that window is closed). 

 

Daniels is a much much better passer than Lamar was coming out of college. Lamar was inaccurate at every level and ran before even getting to his first read while playing in a weaker conference. While Daniels might not be as good of a runner, he would immediately be top 3 runner in the NFL at QB (and again, the only two people to top his speed this year in the NFL were Achane and Tyreek Hill)

Edited January 22 by ThatNFLChick