The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Hypothetical question, if someone offered stroud for howell would you take it?

 

Nope. They are very close to each other. Texans offense is a little better though. Get a better OL for Howell. 

[mac8887]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

Nope. They are very close to each other. Texans offense is a little better though. Get a better OL for Howell. 

Even with stroud being cheap for 4 more years? Are you related?

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, mac8887 said:

Even with stroud being cheap for 4 more years? Are you related?

 

If you are going the cheap route and not the talent route then you get a QB in the draft with your 1st pick. 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yeah, but the reason we're 4-10 is not really due to Sam struggling, at least not early on. We should have 2, maybe 3 more wins if the defense wasn't literally the worst in the entire league, and literally NOBODY saw that coming.  Bram has gone on and on about if you told him the defense was going to be this bad, he'd never have believed you. 

 

If the defense was even just averagely bad, they should have had 2 more wins going into the Dallas game where they got creamed.  

 

 

 

Basically the defense threw away Sam's two performances against the Eagles, the Bears game, the Seattle game and nearly threw away the Denver game. 

 

Sam's performance insured losses whether the Defense showed up or not against the Bills, 2nd Giants game, Dolphins game, and yesterday. 

 

The Defense has largely been straight garbage the entire season, putting nearly every single game at risk (10 of 14) ,Sam put about 4 games at risk out of 14. Take that for what its worth.

 

I think the blame comes down to:

1. Snyder, F.O., and Coaching staff

2. Defense

3. OL 

4. Playmakers

5. Sam

 

In terms of the 5 key things in the team sucking, and honestly, Sam stinking it up in only 4 of 14 games? Look at freaking Ridder and that Atlanta coaching staff, they've literally destroyed Kyle Pitts, Drake London and Bijan Robinson, all 3 top 5-10 draft picks who aren't busts, but are totally 1000% compromised by incompetent QB play and coaching. Sam has not compromised ---- in basically about 2/3's of his starts. 

 

I'm fine with going QB, I think everyone knows that, but it's not because I think Sam sucks, its because I dont know if Sam can be good or great, and if I dont know, I will always go looking for an answer in the draft or via trade (preferably the draft). 

 

Sam remains amongst the least of these teams problems, but he's not necessairly an answer either, he's a question mark, while most of the team is well understood, and known dog manure. 

[profusion]

I would be comfortable with the next GM/HC rolling with Howell next year, but I'm quite sure they'll be evaluating their options. There are so many variables at play, that it's unwise to make absolute statements about Howell's worth right now.

 

If they do draft a QB, it'd be better to trade Howell and keep Brissett. Howell will have some teams interested, and there'd be too much distraction by keeping him around as a former starter (not saying he'd behave badly).

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

21 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Nope. They are very close to each other. Texans offense is a little better though. Get a better OL for Howell. 

How many QBs in the league are better than Howell in your mind? 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

How many QBs in the league are better than Howell in your mind? 

The question is not how many are better now.  The question is can he develop into a 8-12 ranked starter with a better surrounding cast and more experience.

 

I am no professional evaluator, but there is some of what we saw earlier this year which would lead you to believe "yes."

 

Then there is some of what we've seen later in the year which would lead you to believe "no."

 

Which is what makes the evaluation very difficult. 

 

There is merit to going in multiple different directions, but some of it is going to depend on situations somewhat outside of our control: what pick do we end up with, who do we like and are they available?

 

Going with a rookie QB re-sets the clock.  There is merit to that.  And since rookies typically struggle, you want to get that out of the way ASAP.  

 

Putting a rookie QB in a bad situation with a bad OL and supporting cast, probably end up with the same results.

 

Getting Howell more experience with a better OL, you might have something.  Or, he might be damaged goods.

 

It's going to be a tough decision no matter what.  And a lot of the outcome is based on luck.  If you're lucky, and get it right, great. If you're not, you're fired. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

3 hours ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

If I say “Howell’s ceiling is Mayfield/Minshew (and I feel like I’m being generous here) and I think we need to keep looking for our guy.”, is the forum gonna be mean to me again?  Cause when I wanted to pump the brakes in October, folks got all kinda salty and it made me sad.  
 

Being so knowledgeable and prescient can really be burdensome at times.

 

I post monthly now because you people don't deserve me.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The question is not how many are better now.  The question is can he develop into a 8-12 ranked starter with a better surrounding cast and more experience.

 

I am no professional evaluator, but there is some of what we saw earlier this year which would lead you to believe "yes."

 

Then there is some of what we've seen later in the year which would lead you to believe "no."

 

Which is what makes the evaluation very difficult. 

 

There is merit to going in multiple different directions, but some of it is going to depend on situations somewhat outside of our control: what pick do we end up with, who do we like and are they available?

 

Going with a rookie QB re-sets the clock.  There is merit to that.  And since rookies typically struggle, you want to get that out of the way ASAP.  

 

Putting a rookie QB in a bad situation with a bad OL and supporting cast, probably end up with the same results.

 

Getting Howell more experience with a better OL, you might have something.  Or, he might be damaged goods.

 

It's going to be a tough decision no matter what.  And a lot of the outcome is based on luck.  If you're lucky, and get it right, great. If you're not, you're fired. 

At this point, it’s not tough for me. I had zero expectations for Sam going in. I honestly thought they would end up starting Brisset bc he was gonna be such a disaster in training camp. I was 100% wrong and it was that Ravens preseason game that changed my mind. I thought “Wow, he might be able to be a solid QB”. However, the problem that was always going to be there was that Ron was a lame duck and there was going to be a ton of change in ‘24 no matter what. After the Broncos game, I was hoping maybe we could get lucky and Sam could be a legit star and not just solid. That faded over time. It wasn’t “fair” but he had to hit a home run immediately to become “the guy”. He was never going to be afforded time to develop and that’s why I say draft status certainly matters.

I think his absolute ceiling is Kirk but his most likely comp is Minshew or Daniel Jones. I think if you decided “hey, he’s my guy”, you could eventually get a one off 10-11 win season with him after 2-3 years. But that would be it and he’d fluctuate back to average the next season and you’d likely have paid him some crazy contract at that point. 
 

Since we’ve completely bottomed out, I see no reason to settle for a middling at best QB especially with limited talent around him and a new contract likely on the horizon in ‘25. There’s no sense in having him play without a contract. 
 

We will have a new GM and HC in a few weeks. Let’s have EVERYONE on the same timeline. GM, HC, and QB. A clear 5 year window to build something (at least in theory). A QB everyone believes in and hypothetically with a higher ceiling and you live with the results.

 

Sam will be a popular vet QB that bounces around but will always be loved by teammates and fans bc he’s exciting. He might even lead a team to wild card game some day. 

[NickyJ]

At this point, the question is do we devote resources to hunting for "the guy", or is Howell enough of a player that it can be punted for a year while trying to fix what we have just witnessed destroying "a guy's" chance to be "the guy"? I'll just trust that whoever it is that's picked as GM doesn't suck, but if it were my choice, I'd still need to see more failure from Sam and more certainty in our draft position for me to say that we need to gamble our first pick on a QB that can easily be broken as quickly as Howell has.

Edited December 18, 2023 by NickyJ

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

 

Lost in translation was that Howell was playing better than Allen when compared to 1st year as a starter. Allen even with his size struggled a bit his 1st two years. It wasn't until his 3rd year when the Bills put a playoff team around him. So let's do the same for Howell and he can be better than Allen. Howell still has a bit more moxie than Allen. Personally I wanted Allen to be our QB on draft day only on the fact that he went to Wy. I liked living in Rawlins when I was a teen.  

My man!

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

Nope. They are very close to each other. Texans offense is a little better though. Get a better OL for Howell. 

wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh???????????????????????????

 

#1: Stroud is significantly better than Howell based upon all available evidence, right now.

#2: stroud has 3 more years on his deal and a rookie option after his fourth contract year (versus Howell's 2 remaining years on a cheap deal)

 

Again, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

 

Nobody, anywhere thinks they're close to one another, nobody. Well, I guess 1 person apparently. I like Howell, but this is flat out nuts, right here, right now. Nuts. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by The Consigliere

[zCommander]

5 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh???????????????????????????

 

#1: Stroud is significantly better than Howell based upon all available evidence, right now.

#2: stroud has 3 more years on his deal and a rookie option after this year.

 

Again, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh?

 

Nobody, anywhere thinks they're close to one another, nobody. Well, I guess 1 person apparently. I like Howell, but this is flat out nuts, right here, right now. Nuts. 

 

Nuts rattle around in a bowl until you put fruit into it.

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

5 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Nuts rattle around in a bowl until you put fruit into it.

 

…..did you used to be Cooleyfan1993?

[JSSkinz]

Watching him bail the pocket with open WRs is a head scratcher.  We're 14 games in and he's doing odd things that make me question how good he can become.

 

I said 4 weeks ago that if we draft in the top 5 a new GM won't pass on a QB with elite skills and Sam hasn't helped his case.

 

 

 

 

 

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

…..did you used to be Cooleyfan1993?

 

 Okay now I am insulted!!! 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

 Okay now I am insulted!!! 

No I love him. I was just asking. We need you die hards to balance out the jaded.
 

[mac8887]

2 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Watching him bail the pocket with open WRs is a head scratcher.  We're 14 games in and he's doing odd things that make me question how good he can become.

 

I said 4 weeks ago that if we draft in the top 5 a new GM won't pass on a QB with elite skills and Sam hasn't helped his case.

 

 

 

 

 

Sam is one of those qbs that if you look past all the bad things he does, he's a pretty good qb

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Nuts rattle around in a bowl until you put fruit into it.

 

 

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Sam is one of those qbs that if you look past all the bad things he does, he's a pretty good qb

That’s quality. 

[The Consigliere]

In fairness to the guy, he's been smashed relentlessly by terrible OL play, subpar at best playmaking, and a defense that gives away anything his offense accomplishments, most teams eventually fold in the fourth quarter down 4 TD's, and with us hopelessly out of it and a murderous late season schedule, a total implosion from Thanksgiving onwards was always possible. I have little doubt he could still pull out 2 wins down the stretch, which would supremely piss me off, but its also not surprising that eventually the relentless horror of this season has an effect on performances. It's amazing he kept up the strong performances into mid November in the first place. 

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

No I love him. I was just asking. We need you die hards to balance out the jaded.
 

 

Cooleyfan worked for, probably still does, for the team so he couldn't take constructive criticism that well and got annoyed as hell when someone bashed the FO. I am just a fan who loves the team I chose to rep back in 1998. I was a football fan first and Redskins fan later. Once I bought my new born son Redskins onesies days after he was born I was in all the way. Gotta support your hometown team.  

 

I usually don't die on a hill when it comes to the QB since we haven't had a good QB in the last 30 years. But I rooted for Ramsey, RG3 (but only his 1st year, he showed he is a diva after his injury and promised his sponsors how he is going to start the following year even though still in rehab, he had ego issues and he still does as it turns out), Kirk a lot and to a little extent Taylor but Howell is still better than the ones I just listed. I hate to see it go to waste based on a few bad games without a decent OL and playmakers around him though. 

[JSSkinz]

17 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

Sam is one of those qbs that if you look past all the bad things he does, he's a pretty good qb

I lack that superpower.

[mac8887]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Cooleyfan worked for, probably still does, for the team so he couldn't take constructive criticism that well and got annoyed as hell when someone bashed the FO. I am just a fan who loves the team I chose to rep back in 1998. I was a football fan first and Redskins fan later. Once I bought my new born son Redskins onesies days after he was born I was in all the way. Gotta support your hometown team.  

 

I usually don't die on a hill when it comes to the QB since we haven't had a good QB in the last 30 years. But I rooted for Ramsey, RG3 (but only his 1st year, he showed he is a diva after his injury and promised his sponsors how he is going to start the following year even though still in rehab, he had ego issues and he still does as it turns out), Kirk a lot and to a little extent Taylor but Howell is still better than the ones I just listed. I hate to see it go to waste based on a few bad games without a decent OL and playmakers around him though. 

In all honesty dude does show grit, I'd love to see him succeed. I just wish he had either prototypical size or some other elite trait that we could cling to and use to cover up his weakness as he learns exactly how to use his skill set to play at a high level consistently.

[FootballZombie]

17 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Watching him bail the pocket with open WRs is a head scratcher.  We're 14 games in and he's doing odd things that make me question how good he can become.

 

I don't think its odd. He is becoming exactly what was forced upon him.

 

 

He is the team. No Defense, no Oline, no run game, no assistive playcalling, no special teams. We are what Sam can pull outta his butt cheeks.

We spend the year demanding our young and impressionable QB be Superman in order for us to have a ghost of a chance. Now every play has to be the best possible version of itself.

 

Sam is increasingly displaying the negative tendencies that come from that. That includes forced throws in the form of cross body jump passes back into the field of play while running full speed in the opposite direction... because if Sam does not make a play who will? Who else is even allowed to?

 

They Ramsy'd the heck outta this kid. Hopefully he is not to far gone and can reel it back. Sam can look at the tape and realize he is doing too much and hopefully his coaches can stop gameplanning the superman cape on his shoulders.