The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

As far as the O line, one of the things I gather we might see them work on today (granted I gather the backups) is blocking on the screen game.  Keim has alluded multiple times that they are not happy with how the screen game looks this preseason including the blocking on it.

 

30 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Is Howell expected to get the start tonight? If so I'll bring the tyke on his maiden voyage to Raljon. Thx.

 

I may bring him anyways... need to support Harris for saving us.

 

He's not starting tonight, it will be Brissett.

 

1 hour ago, redskinss said:

I thought Tavita Pritchard was the quarterbacks coach now?

 

He is.  The work done with Zampese and Howell was last year.  Zampese is now if I recall senior offensive assistant or something like that.

 

Zampese was a bit reknowned as a QB coach before we got here.  I recall the debate when we hired Jay who developed Dalton was it he or Zampese?  There were articles that gave more credit to Zampese, so I remember the debate at the time.  That was back when Dalton was good and seen as an overachiever because he wasn't the most talented dude.  

Edited August 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Stromberg is the future but maybe not so much for this year, especially early. In Keim's interview with him he really talked up Gates and Larsen's assistance with him answering every question they have for him, I think he called Gates awesome. He was asked about playing guard and he said there is a lot to learn and needs to reps. Hoping he receives lots tonight at any and all IOL slots this evening. He mentioned needing to focus on his base, seems to have confidence in his hands.

 

Stromberg is a really good run blocker.  Once he replaces Gates I presume next year I think that should help.

 

Last year both the run blocking and pass blocking were bad.  I expect the same this year but with some marginal improvement. 

 

Some of the bad pass blocking teams like Minny and the Giants have good run blocking units.    Not that case here.  But maybe they will surprise.

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

43 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Is Howell expected to get the start tonight? If so I'll bring the tyke on his maiden voyage to Raljon. Thx.

 

I may bring him anyways... need to support Harris for saving us.

Sam won't play but honestly, I'd be tempted to start Fromm. Being just 15 days away from our week 1 game, I'm not sure I want to risk our good, veteran backup qb to potential injury. Then again, I can't really imagine Fromm playing the entire game. So maybe Brissett for one quarter and Fromm for three. Or half and half. Hard to say what Ron's plan is.

[FootballZombie]

Zamp has done nothing for our QBs while here. No proof in that pudding. They all sucked, many regressed.

I understand your dealing with trash, but they still didn't have to get worse and upgrade to flaming garbage.

I'm glad he's not the QB coach now. Let someone else be is Sam's ear.

 

I don't know what kind of effect Tav will have, but he only needs to be better than nothing to be an upgrade.

[RandyHolt]

2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Zamp has done nothing for our QBs while here. No proof in that pudding. They all sucked, many regressed.

I understand your dealing with trash, but they still didn't have to get worse and upgrade to flaming garbage.

I'm glad he's not the QB coach now. Let someone else be is Sam's ear.

 

I don't know what kind of effect Tav will have, but he only needs to be better than nothing to be an upgrade.

In his defense, we sure didn't draft many QBs for him to have a chance to develop...

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Zamp has done nothing for our QBs while here. No proof in that pudding. They all sucked, many regressed.

I understand your dealing with trash, but they still didn't have to get worse and upgrade to flaming garbage.

I'm glad he's not the QB coach now. Let someone else be is Sam's ear.

 

I don't know what kind of effect Tav will have, but he only needs to be better than nothing to be an upgrade.

 

What QB was he supposed to turn around Haskins (RIP)?   For starters he had him for just one off season.  When Haskins' own close buddy Shawn Springs says publicly that he can't put in the work for Haskins -- it makes it clear among a zillion other reports that he wasn't putting in the time.   

 

As far as Heinicke, Wentz -- will see if they are more successful at their next spot.  Zampese has been given a lot of praise including from Rivera and Howell and Howell's N Carolina's coach for his work with Howell.  Maybe they are bsing about it all.  But I'll take them at their word for now.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Stromberg is a really good run blocker.  Once he replaces Gates I presume next year I think that should help.

 

Last year both the run blocking and pass blocking were bad.  I expect the same this year but with some marginal improvement. 

 

Some of the bad pass blocking teams like Minny and the Giants have good run blocking units.    Not that case here.  But maybe they will surprise.

 

 

 

Promising that he’s gotten some kudos for his guard play as well, especially as it’s hard to envision Cosmi not getting dinged up.  I’m feeling a bit better about our depth now, though I’ll admit that part of this is because my expectations of the starting unit are pretty low and so I don’t anticipate too much of a drop off depth-wise. 

 

If we wind up hanging on to both Daniels and Brooks (and if they show some development), I kind of like the future potential with this group.  Those two, along with Stromberg, Paul and Cosmi, and Whylie and Gates serving as journeyman competition.  Tackle might be tough though - hard to see Daniels or Brooks (if one or both stay outside) landing a starting gig next year, Leno is pretty pricey/aging, Lucas is a FA, and I think they’ll want to upgrade from Whylie.

10 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Zamp has done nothing for our QBs while here. No proof in that pudding. They all sucked, many regressed.

I understand your dealing with trash, but they still didn't have to get worse and upgrade to flaming garbage.

I'm glad he's not the QB coach now. Let someone else be is Sam's ear.

 

I don't know what kind of effect Tav will have, but he only needs to be better than nothing to be an upgrade.

I mean, everyone talks about seeing a lot of growth in Howell through last year…

[FootballZombie]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

What QB was he supposed to turn around Haskins (RIP)?   For starters he had him for just one off season.

 

I don't blame him for not turning trash into treasure. That is an unreasonable lift.

 

But we had a disturbing trend of multiple QBs getting worse with time, and I partially place that at Zamp's feet.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Promising that he’s gotten some kudos for his guard play as well, especially as it’s hard to envision Cosmi not getting dinged up.  I’m feeling a bit better about our depth now, though I’ll admit that part of this is because my expectations of the starting unit are pretty low and so I don’t anticipate too much of a drop off depth-wise. 

 

If we wind up hanging on to both Daniels and Brooks (and if they show some development), I kind of like the future potential with this group.  Those two, along with Stromberg, Paul and Cosmi, and Whylie and Gates serving as journeyman competition.  Tackle might be tough though - hard to see Daniels or Brooks (if one or both stay outside) landing a starting gig next year, Leno is pretty pricey/aging, Lucas is a FA, and I think they’ll want to upgrade from Whylie.

 

Stromberg developing as a guard is a good development for depth, I agree.

 

i think we might be premature crowning Paul just judging by camp reports.  Will see. 

 

But I am very confident about Stromberg and Comsi if Cosmi could stay healthy.

 

LG to me is a complete wildcard.  I can go either way on it.  Tackles -- meh",  The reports on Daniels aren't hot. 

 

The future to me looks "meh" at best as to the O line.  But the good news for me is I like what I hear and have seen about Howell.  So they likely won't have to use draft capital on QB. 

 

I am guessing its likely a new regime picking this roster next year.  And I think they will do next off season what many of us expected them to do last off season.  That is, go to town on the spot in FA and the draft.  I don't think we have many other needs.  I do think you can fix this issue in one off season  

 

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I don't blame him for not turning trash into treasure. That is an unreasonable lift.

 

But we had a disturbing trend of multiple QBs getting worse with time, and I partially place that at Zamp's feet.

 

Who were the multiple QBs?

 

Alex Smith was 5-1 playing on one leg.  Haskins wasn't going to cut it.  Heinicke was an UDFA out of football and came here and exceeded expectations.

 

So I gather we are talking about Wentz?  Wentz struggled from the jump in camp.    Maybe that's party on Zampese, i don't know but its clear that the rest of the NFL doesn't think much of Wentz considering he's still unemployed. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[bird_1972]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Stromberg developing as a guard is a good development for depth, I agree.

 

i think we might be premature crowning Paul just judging by camp reports.  Will see. 

 

But I am very confident about Stromberg and Comsi if Cosmi could stay healthy.

 

LG to me is a complete wildcard.  I can go either way on it.  Tackles -- meh",  The reports on Daniels aren't hot. 

 

The future to me looks "meh" at best.  But the good news for me is I like what I hear and have seen about Howell.   I am guessing its likely a new regime picking this roster next year.  And I think they will do next off season what many of us expect them to do last off season.  That is, go to town on the spot in FA and the draft.  I don't think we have many other needs.  I do think you can fix this issue in one off season  

 

It's clear to me that our interior OL has some reason for optimism but short and long term. 

 

We need to address tackle in the draft next year. Big time. Should probably be our first round pick depending how the chips fall.

[FootballZombie]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Who were the multiple QBs?

 

Wentz and TH were his only real work.

I don't blame him at all for Haskins, and there was not much work that could be done for post injury 2020 Smith at the literal end of his career.

 

The two QBs he worked with the most both got progressively worse. They may have sucked to begin with, but they got even worse over time.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

It's clear to me that our interior OL has some reason for optimism but short and long term. 

 

We need to address tackle in the draft next year. Big time. Should probably be our first round pick depending how the chips fall.

 

We might need a LG, too.

 

Paul I've heard mixed things about in camp.  Charles hasn't had a hot start to his career and has had injuries.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Paul's potential but it feels far like slam dunk that we got our LG spot solved.

 

Cosmi I think will be great but can he stay healthy?

 

Stromberg I really like, I know its premature to say he's the future center. But he cames at that spot with good draft pedigree and has had a good camp.

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Leno is aging but not pricey. He's paid something like 25th for all OT's. Which seems pretty fair for his level of play and that he doesn't miss games. He's paid half of what the top guys are, which also seems fair.

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Wentz and TH were his only real work.

I don't blame him at all for Haskins, and there was not much work that could be done for post injury 2020 Smith at the literal end of his career.

 

The two QBs he worked with the most both got progressively worse. They may have sucked to begin with, but they got even worse over time.

 

Heinicke was off the scrap heap.  The fact that he even started was an accomplishment especially considering he was neither accurate or had an NFL arm yet still managed.   I don't think he was worse last season versus his first season.  They were about the same.  Heinicke decided to make a contract decision and not run in his 2nd season, that was the difference to me.  But stat wise you don't see a measurable difference.

 

As far as Wentz goes, he sucked.  Apparently he sucked from the jump from camp.  It was what it was.  Never heard any reporters even suggesting that was on Zampese.  Some did put that on Turner as for the scheme fit.

 

Regardless, I would have to see Howell, Keim, Rivera and Keim's North Carolia coaches as either being dense or liars about Zampese's impact on Howell.  I got no reason to think that.  The fact that Zampese was willing to spend time with Howell from what I heard just about every day post practice -- I find commendable.  Wentz sucking doesn't move me away from that thought.

 

Edit:  I am not suggesting you think they are making it up.  i am just explaining just my mindset on the point.  Keim in particular has talked about how Howell was talented but this team felt he had a long way to go with his footwork when he was drafted.  And Zampese supposedly worked tirelessly with Howell after practice on improving it.  I always give most of the props to the player though.  but i like what i've heard about all the extra time Zampese spent with Howell.  And according to Howell's old N. Carolina coach, Howell and Zampese got really close.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinny21]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We might need a LG, too.

 

Paul I've heard mixed things about in camp.  Charles hasn't had a hot start to his career and has had injuries.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Paul's potential but it feels far like slam dunk that we got our LG spot solved.

 

Cosmi I think will be great but can he stay healthy?

 

Stromberg I really like, I know its premature to say he's the future center. But he cames at that spot with good draft pedigree and has had a good camp.

 

Yeah, I wouldn’t anoint Paul, but I take the combo of player comments last year about him, plus added development time, and look at it through the lens of having him as young LG competition.  No guarantees of course.  Having Whylie and Gates as competition there makes me feel better about the situation for next year.  Sure wouldn’t stop me from using a higher pick on a guard though.  Going to be interesting to see what they do with Brooks/Daniels too - does one or both move inside?

26 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

Leno is aging but not pricey. He's paid something like 25th for all OT's. Which seems pretty fair for his level of play and that he doesn't miss games. He's paid half of what the top guys are, which also seems fair.

Fair point - I was wrong to call him “pricey”.

[bird_1972]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We might need a LG, too.

 

Paul I've heard mixed things about in camp.  Charles hasn't had a hot start to his career and has had injuries.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Paul's potential but it feels far like slam dunk that we got our LG spot solved.

 

Cosmi I think will be great but can he stay healthy?

 

Stromberg I really like, I know its premature to say he's the future center. But he cames at that spot with good draft pedigree and has had a good camp.

 

 

Agreed. I just was thinking we need a starter-caliber player at the tackle position in a big way. So using a first rounder on that makes sense. 

 

Other draft priorities (pending coaching/GM/player turnover in Harris' first offseason) would include LB, TE in addition to the OL.

 

Wouldn't mind a late round developmental QB as well.

13 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I wouldn’t anoint Paul, but I take the combo of player comments last year about him, plus added development time, and look at it through the lens of having him as young LG competition.  No guarantees of course.  Having Whylie and Gates as competition there makes me feel better about the situation for next year.  Sure wouldn’t stop me from using a higher pick on a guard though.  Going to be interesting to see what they do with Brooks/Daniels too - does one or both move inside?

Fair point - I was wrong to call him “pricey”.

 

Isn't Saadiq Charles emerging as LG starter? I thought I had read/heard that from JP Finlay.

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, I wouldn’t anoint Paul, but I take the combo of player comments last year about him, plus added development time, and look at it through the lens of having him as young LG competition.  No guarantees of course.  Having Whylie and Gates as competition there makes me feel better about the situation for next year.  Sure wouldn’t stop me from using a higher pick on a guard though.  Going to be interesting to see what they do with Brooks/Daniels too - does one or both move inside?

 

 

I got sort of 50-50 vibes about Paul from those watching camp.  So I want to see that play out this season.  

 

I hate to be obnoxious on this issue. And i know i am to some because I am not a believer in that unit 😎. But it really delves from a simple idea of lets shoot higher than we've had at this spot in recent years.  

 

The Giants since 2020 have taken two tackles in the first round.  A center in the 2nd.  And used used two third rounders on the O line.  Those are some serious swings with high picks.

 

I get that it hasn't solved their O line issues, but its a young group that are at least a good run blocking unit and the rest of that unit might grow --Neal supposedly has flashed some in camp.

 

I want some of that here versus wondering if our 7th round pick develops and whether our 4th rounder who is struggiling in camp makes the roster or not.

 

My point simply put is especially if Howell shows he's the goods, I hope they they go full out to fix the O line versus hoping for patching something together that at its peak leads to mediocrity with that unit.  Not saying you are hoping for mediocrity.  But I am in the lets swing for the fences more on the unit mode.   

 

So when it comes to next season my mind is thinking very aggressively as to addressing this.  Heck even the homers for the O line are arguing that hey it might be so so.  If they end up right, so so is certainly better than sucks.  But I want a unit that can rival the Eagles, not one that hey it won't suck where maybe we will be ranked in the low 20s instead of the 30s.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Califan007 The Constipated]

 

 

[skinny21]

20 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

Agreed. I just was thinking we need a starter-caliber player at the tackle position in a big way. So using a first rounder on that makes sense. 

 

Other draft priorities (pending coaching/GM/player turnover in Harris' first offseason) would include LB, TE in addition to the OL.

 

Wouldn't mind a late round developmental QB as well.

 

Isn't Saadiq Charles emerging as LG starter? I thought I had read/heard that from JP Finlay.

My Paul comments were about next year (Charles is a FA after this year I believe?).

 

Seems kind of crazy, but we could probably use a corner as well (in next years draft), depending on what happens with Fuller… unless maybe Holmes really emerges as a high end backup.

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I got sort of 50-50 vibes about Paul from those watching camp.  So I want to see that play out this season.  

 

I hate to be obnoxious on this issue. And i know i am to some because I am not a believer in that unit 😎. But it really delves from a simple idea of lets shoot higher than we've had at this spot in recent years.  

 

The Giants since 2020 have taken two tackles in the first round.  A center in the 2nd.  And used used two third rounders on the O line.  Those are some serious swings with high picks.

 

I get that it hasn't solved their O line issues, but its a young group that are at least a good run blocking unit and the rest of that unit might grow --Neal supposedly has flashed some in camp.

 

I want some of that here versus wondering if our 7th round pick develops and whether our 4th rounder who is struggiling in camp makes the roster or not.

 

My point simply put is especially if Howell shows he's the goods, I hope they they go full out to fix the O line versus hoping for patching something together that at its peak leads to mediocrity with that unit.  Not saying you are hoping for mediocrity.  But I am in the lets swing for the fences more on the unit mode.   

 

So when it comes to next season my mind is thinking very aggressively as to addressing this.  Heck even the homers for the O line are arguing that hey it might be so so.  If they end up right, so so is certainly better than sucks.  But I want a unit that can rival the Eagles, not one that hey it won't suck where maybe we will be ranked in the low 20s instead of the 30s.

Yeah, as I said, I’d still very much consider a high end G in next years draft (tackle should be a foregone conclusion IMO… heck, I’d love to add 2).  Totally agree on swinging for the fences - certainly wouldn’t rest on our laurels because of Paul, I just like that we have some youth with potential - mostly on the interior, though I suppose Brooks/Daniels are possibilities at tackle.  Would be great if one of Paul/Brooks/Daniels could emerge this year, though I’m not holding my breath.

 

Laying it out for next year, I see 1 young starter in Stromberg, 1 guy I think will be a high end player in Cosmi (though it’ll be a contract year for him in 2024), 2 guys that are more than likely challenging for depth roles at tackle - Brooks/Daniels, though both might be better suited inside (and might not even be on the team next year).  Then Paul to challenge for the LG position, hopefully at least capable of serving as a decent depth option.  Essentially, I like that we have some developing youth in the wings, so I see some hope for the future, even though I’d like to add some serious talent next year.  Oh, and theoretically, that youth will probably be competing with Whylie/Gates.  Not in love with those 2, but they at least give us a baseline of talent.

[HIYA_Beach_Warpath]

15 hours ago, Dark Acre said:

Wait til Jerruh finds out that failed hyped QB Zach Wilson's the guy with the MILF, not Trey Lance.

and to rub it in, our Dax M. will send Jereuh photos of said MILF.. lmao

[SkinsFTW]

Not to complain about having stuff to read but maybe somebody should start an OL thread or something 

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Stromberg I really like, I know its premature to say he's the future center. But he cames at that spot with good draft pedigree and has had a good camp.

 

I still don't see why Strom isn't getting reps at C and let Gates take over at G. Seems too obvious to work I reckon. Strom will only grow with reps

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

2 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I still don't see why Strom isn't getting reps at C and let Gates take over at G. Seems too obvious to work I reckon. Strom will only grow with reps

Because having a rookie Center and rookie QB is not ideal. 
 

I’m going on record saying that Stromberg will make the Pro Bowl in his time here. Excited to see him get more work. 

Edited August 26, 2023 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[bowhunter]

Because it seems that almost all of us need some grounding here: Sam WILL break our hearts a few times this season. It's just what Rookie QBs do. I recall well when this board went nuts for Cousins, and then screamed that he should be benched after a bad pick. Even Cousins demeanor seemed to show self doubt. But with games came growth. I excited and optimistic to watch Sam grow. But he's not superhuman. Prepare for some heartbreak along with the puppy love

[bowhunter]

2 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Because having a rookie Center and rookie QB is not ideal. 
 

I’m going on record saying that Stromberg will make the Pro Bowl in his time here. Excited to see him get more work. 

I get that, but there's not a lot about our current O-line makeup that would earn the adjective "ideal" at the moment. lol  I'm not saying that Ricky should be named as as starting Center atm, just more work with the 1s and 2s. , Of course rookies at either position have a little growing pain at calling protections.Thats why you have TC and pre-season to gain a little experience and see how things progress. IMO it's a MUCH better option than labeling him as a 3rd string but future starter as you still go into the regular season without even knowing if you have a starting LG.