The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[zCommander]

13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

If Kyle could make Griffin look like a savior for a season before people caught on, I'd say coaching matters more then you willing to give credit for in Purdy's situation.

 

Take a look at his first game analysis by Baldy. Words like pocket awareness and anticipation were used. This is what I want to see if Howell has that. Plus we know he can scramble and run too when a play breaks down. 

 

 

Also what I highlighted in bold. 

 

The most impressive thing about Purdy's starting debut was his poise. He wasn't trying to bomb it down the field, and he was getting the ball out quickly while also taking more time if his line gave it to him.

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/49ers-brock-purdy-debut-tom-brady-buccaneers/cojgksrg1penwdwzncctrnws

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

well the difference beyond the QB is that Kyle is a great coach with a terrific offensive mind that knows how to confuse defenses, attack weaknesses and play to his players strengths while Rivera coaches like its 1993 annddd that’s about it. Their roster is also stacked and far superior to Washingtons

 

I don't know if 28-3 Kyle is a great coach.  I think he's a good coach but I'm going to stop short of calling him great until he can bring home a ring.  

 

We're in agreement that Rivera coaches like it's the 90s and that the 49ers roster is stacked.  I will agree that the 49ers wouldn't be this good with Ron at the helm, for sure.

[Redskins 2021]

Next year we should dump Wentz and Heinicke. It's not all there fault but they are bith below average. Maybe bring in Brissett and bring back Howell. The schudule next is brutal. We may be in for a top five pick and can bring C Williams from Usc.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[SoCalSkins]

Moxie is the key element apparently:

 

 

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I don't know if 28-3 Kyle is a great coach.  I think he's a good coach but I'm going to stop short of calling him great until he can bring home a ring.  

 

We're in agreement that Rivera coaches like it's the 90s and that the 49ers roster is stacked.  I will agree that the 49ers wouldn't be this good with Ron at the helm, for sure.

To be fair that’s on Dan Quinn. He went old school conservative and put the shackles on Kyle and his D got shredded by Brady. 

[method man]

I will say that the thing I didn’t like about Howell watching UNC last year is he did not process quickly. He would read read and takeoff. 
 

It is not as if he was devoid of weapons last year either. Josh Downs is a better player than both Dyami Brown and Dazz Newsome were and he is going to go in the 1st or early Day 2. Ty Chandler was a pretty solid back and he went Day 3 last year

[Captain Wiggles]

Quote

Steelers TJ Watt says he knew they were going to score at the end. “We practice 2 minute all the time…we see and know the moxy in our quarterback”

 

That's not how it's spelled poser. 😎

[Spaceman Spiff]

5 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

 

 

To be fair that’s on Dan Quinn. He went old school conservative and put the shackles on Kyle and his D got shredded by Brady. 

 

I can see that point, although I think Kyle should have had the gumption to say "**** off, if we let Brady get his foot in the door he's going to kick it down, we need to keep racking up points and bury him, there will be no letting up."  In that particular case Kyle needed to be able to take control of the situation and make a case to keep going and that's why I'm hesitant to call him a great coach.

 

As is the case with any ugly loss in an inopportune time, there's plenty of blame to go around.  Quinn takes a lot of that, but I don't think Kyle is beyond reproach in that situation, either.  

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Take a look at his first game analysis by Baldy. Words like pocket awareness and anticipation were used. This is what I want to see if Howell has that. Plus we know he can scramble and run too when a play breaks down. 

 

 

Also what I highlighted in bold. 

 

The most impressive thing about Purdy's starting debut was his poise. He wasn't trying to bomb it down the field, and he was getting the ball out quickly while also taking more time if his line gave it to him.

 

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/49ers-brock-purdy-debut-tom-brady-buccaneers/cojgksrg1penwdwzncctrnws

 

 

All fair and still all coachable.

 

Stuff like raw arm strength, running speed/agility, and overall size is not.

 

Would Purdy look this good if he had to start week 1?  No doubt in mind Kyle getting a chance to work him like Ron wants time to work with Howell paid dividens.

 

  If he was the last pick in the draft that's a hard sell he could've been a day 1 starter this year, he needed time and got it with one of best coaches in the business.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Renegade7

[SoCalSkins]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I can see that point, although I think Kyle should have had the gumption to say "**** off, if we let Brady get his foot in the door he's going to kick it down, we need to keep racking up points and bury him, there will be no letting up."  In that particular case Kyle needed to be able to take control of the situation and make a case to keep going and that's why I'm hesitant to call him a great coach.

 

As is the case with any ugly loss in an inopportune time, there's plenty of blame to go around.  Quinn takes a lot of that, but I don't think Kyle is beyond reproach in that situation, either.  

There were two calls Quinn over ruled Kyle on apparently. One was punting instead of going for it to seal the game and the other was over ruling to go with a run on short yardage that got stopped instead of the pass Kyle wanted. There was an article about it couple of weeks after before the start of free agency. Maybe his dad was the source spreading misinformation. Who knows.

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

There were two calls Quinn over ruled Kyle on apparently. One was punting instead of going for it to seal the game and the other was over ruling to go with a run on short yardage that got stopped instead of the pass Kyle wanted. There was an article about it couple of weeks after before the start of free agency. Maybe his dad was the source spreading misinformation. Who knows.

That's good information, didn't know these details.  

[Renegade7]

17 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I don't know if 28-3 Kyle is a great coach.  I think he's a good coach but I'm going to stop short of calling him great until he can bring home a ring.  

 

We're in agreement that Rivera coaches like it's the 90s and that the 49ers roster is stacked.  I will agree that the 49ers wouldn't be this good with Ron at the helm, for sure.

 

When you've scored 28 points in a game, you've kinda done your job on offense.  That failure was very much on Atlanta's defense, while Kyle should've scored more, defense let the GOAT catchup. 

 

Can argue the defense couldn't stop the GOAT, McVay got humbled so badly by Belicheck in his own super bowl against him we almost forget how much better of a coach he is then the rest.

 

That San Fran super bowl, yea, it's hard to simply say Mahomes went mini-god mode on them, because even I was screaming to be more aggressive and not wait for him to wake up.  Those two collapse will be linked to Kyle forever but deserve context in who ripped it from him when saying where he ranks among coaches today. 

 

 Im not sure I can name 10 active coaches.l better then Kyle right now, I may struggle to name 5. Andy Ried and Belicheck sure, but he's getting more out of what he has then McVay and been murdering the Rams pretty regularly since Sean got there (at one point like a 6 game win streak against them).

 

I'm not ready to put Kyle in HOF category without a super bowl ring, but he's getting towards Andy Ried territory of the best active without one yet (if he isn't already).

[zCommander]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 

All fair and still all coachable.

 

Stuff like raw arm strength, running speed/agility, and overall size is not.

 

Would Purdy look this good if he had to start week 1?  No doubt in mind Kyle getting a chance to work him like Ron wants time to work with Howell paid dividens.

 

  If he was the last pick in the draft that's a hard sell he could've been a day 1 starter this year, he needed time and got it with one of best coaches in the business.

 

Natural instincts and having some IT factors is not coachable. This is what you want to see if the QB has it as all other stuff can be coachable. The QB coach has been working with his footwork all season too. Also on some board Howell was either a 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder. So at least he has that going for him over Purdy. Yes Kyle is a good signal-caller but sometimes so is Turner. 

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Natural instincts and having some IT factors is not coachable. This is what you want to see if the QB has it as all other stuff can be coachable. The QB coach has been working with his footwork all season too. Also on some board Howell was either a 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder. So at least he has that going for him over Purdy. Yes Kyle is a good signal-caller but sometimes so is Turner. 

 

When I hear natural instincts, I hear pocket presence, that absolutely can be taught and is taught.

 

IT factor is such a...man, moxie is not a trackable, tapeable, reviewable, nor explainable stat, because it isn't one.

 

I hear it linked to wanting to win and knowing what it takes, Taylor has it, but literally nothing else, that's why he's a backup and possibly out the league this offseason.

[Mr. Sinister]

30 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

That's not how it's spelled poser. 😎

 

Wow I must be really out of the loop these days bc I thought she ran and hid after that McLovin blowback. 

[Renegade7]

Want to add two things here:

 

1.  I was dead ass wrong about Wentz

2. I'm ready to see Howell in the finale against Dallas

 

I so badly wanted to believe what we saw in the Jaguars game was his ceiling, I can deal with multiple tds and ints as long as there's more tds then it's.

 

That was actually an anomoly.  We now have to cut him and be happy we didn't have to give a second round pick over this.

 

The scary thing is that I don't think it matter if it makes folks wanting to stick with Taylor right, they both were garbage, held back the potential of this team, and trying to figure out who gave us best chance to win (or not lose) cost us our playoff spot. 

 

We went from top 5 pick to 6th seed to eliminated fn around with these two, and that comes back to Rivera and Ron thinking they could win with either of them.

 

And I'll be honest, there is a part of me now that wants to see what Howell can do knowing it's going to be bad, for any reason i never want to see Wentz or Taylor start for us again.  I'm so fn done, yo, put Logan Thomas in if you have to.  Dallas needs this game more then we do and defense is reeling from injuries, it'll be over by thr 2nd quarter anyway.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Renegade7

[Playaction2Sanders]

I think this is a real postive case scenario losing today. It give us a must need chance to see Howell when every other QB drafted this year and some street FA all saw time and he was the only draftee that hadn't yet.. It gives you something to build on. Anyone remember Mahomes debut? No I'm not going there but his first start was rather underwhelming but who knows that Reid saw in him that lead to his insane 1st year starting campaign. The end result is we'll have a better idea of what our focus in the offseason should be at..

[skins4ever28]

I have always defended Rivera. I think he’s actually a great head coach. I think Scott turner is AWFUL, and only in the league cause his daddy kissed the right booty’s. But Rivera was the one bright spot in a coaching room/front office of complete dysfunction. He always handled the bs around snyder with class and gave us something to at least not be totally embarrassed about during times where we were the joke of the league. With that being said, I cannot for the life of me figure out why he would start wentz today over TH. I’m not saying TH is good, but he’s better than wentz and the guys believe in him. Rivera knows this. I can’t help but think this is a direct order from Snyder. 
whatever, not that it matters anyway. Until our owner is gone, nothing will change. He has been the common denominator the entire time. With all that being said, if Ron doesn’t start Howell Sunday, then I question his motives. I have been on the Howell train since day 1. I watched him a little, and I felt like he’s the one shot we had this year at a real qb. If he sucks, cool, let’s try again. But if he looks good man…. At least we have hope heading into the off-season then, right ?

[Renegade7]

@Playaction2Sanders

 

I'll never take missing the playoffs over making the playoffs, but you are absolutely right there's no way we saw Howell this season unless we got eliminated.

 

That's more making something out of this **** sandwich we got severed today as fans, but it is something.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Renegade7

[zCommander]

14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

When I hear natural instincts, I hear pocket presence, that absolutely can be taught and is taught.

 

IT factor is such a...man, moxie is not a trackable, tapeable, reviewable, nor explainable stat, because it isn't one.

 

I hear it linked to wanting to win and knowing what it takes, Taylor has it, but literally nothing else, that's why he's a backup and possibly out the league this offseason.

 

Natural instincts helps your pocket presence though. The ability to foresee trouble is more than just teachable. You can't teach someone to foresee things. And the ability to just side step or spin around and have a defender miss you the very last second. The super quickness is more genetic than teaching. Sometime people label that as the IT factor or moxie if you will. Either you have it or you don't. Yes it doesn't show up in stats. But wins do. 

 

Taylor has the moxie, the cold viens and the heroism but not the arm. So he makes up for it by doing other stuff that he can control. His instincts so to speak. Now most of the times he is wrong on his instincts so you want to have a QB that has good or better instincts more so than bad ones. Ron even said if he gets the good Taylor he can win games with him. 

 

[Renegade7]

Just now, zCommander said:

 

Natural instincts helps your pocket presence though. The ability to foresee trouble is more than just teachable. You can't teach someone to foresee things. And the ability to just side step or spin around and have a defender miss you the very last second. The super quickness is more genetic than teaching. Sometime people label that as the IT factor or moxie if you will. Either you have it or you don't. Yes it doesn't show up in stats. But wins do. 

 

Huh, what do you think wisdom and experience is?  Why do you think the greats watch film until they can't see straight?  You mean to tell me you've never seen or noticed a QB progressively getting better at avoiding sacks throughout their career?

 

Just now, zCommander said:

Taylor has the moxie, the cold viens and the heroism but not the arm. So he makes up for it by doing other stuff that he can control. His instincts so to speak. Now most of the times he is wrong on his instincts so you want to have a QB that has good or better instincts more so than bad ones. Ron even said if he gets the good Taylor he can win games with him. 

 

 

Ok, bro, we're cool, but you lost me here...

 

 

Instincts arent teachable, very important, but can sometimes be instincts that lead to doing stupid ****?

[88Comrade2000]

When Carson went down, we should’ve rode the season with Sam.

[Conn]

If Howell looks even half decent it will make Rivera look like an even bigger dolt. All of us who were accused of advocating for “coaching malpractice” by calling for Howell since the bye week will be watching closely. Because it would have been an unorthodox and gutsy call, sure. But we haven’t won a game since we went on bye, so. 

[RWJ]

27 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

 I'm ready to see Howell in the finale against Dallas

 

 

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Conn said:

If Howell looks even half decent it will make Rivera look like an even bigger dolt. All of us who were accused of advocating for “coaching malpractice” by calling for Howell since the bye week will be watching closely. Because it would have been an unorthodox and gutsy call, sure. But we haven’t won a game since we went on bye, so. 

 

If by "half decent" you mean better then what we were getting from Taylor and Wentz, I can see this being ugly.  

 

I'm jus nit buying it being that easy, there's no QB whisperer on this coaching staff, I'm jus as concerned he can't protect himself nor can Scott, but season's over, game is violent and folks need to be ready as they can for when their number is called at this level. 

 

Cannot protect Howell forever.

[NoCalMike]

There's no way Sam Howell, with another offseason, running with the ones.....can't be better at QB than what we've seen this season. I know he is young and maybe a bit raw, but it's a pretty low bar ahead of him right now.  This is even assuming too much about who the other 2 QB's on the roster will be at that time, so this could all be moot soon anyway...but just sayin'

 

 

Edit: To clarify the above statement. What I meant to say is that IF....of course it's an IF.....so if Howell is to be seen as any kind of legit threat to be a franchise starting QB....like if the coaches legitimately think his talent ceiling is that  high eventually? THen yes the original paragraph applies. He should be ready.

Edited January 2, 2023 by NoCalMike