The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Koolblue13]

Our offense sucks because the center and QB suck ass. That's the bottom line.

[FootballZombie]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My thought is this team is better than the Giants but the Giants are well coached especially on defense and they seem to have a good beat on this team.  

 

That book has been written for a while, we just don't let it hurt us very much when we run the ball 40 times a game.

 

You get outta that and we have problems, as we did vs the Giants. Inches from disaster.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Listening to Paulsen and Cooley but more Paulsen on this front, it gives me the vibe that the Giants upon scouting this team landed on the idea that this offense does not readjust protections well based on last second defensive shifts and for that reason that max protection not only didn't bother them but they welcomed it because max protect doesn't have much teeth to it if the opponent can take advantage of it which the Giants did.  

 

And the Giants playing back and bearing down on the throws from Heinicke seems set up for them to have some picks.

 

My thought is this team is better than the Giants but the Giants are well coached especially on defense and they seem to have a good beat on this team.  

That aligns with what I was seeing even in real-time.  Even some of the better completions, were a fraction from going the other way.  Luckily, their secondary talent is pretty terrible. 

 

I know it’s never good to look ahead, but the one that scares the bejeezus out of me is the Xmas eve matchup with the 49ers.  That D seems ripe to capitalize on playing a QB like Heinicke. Wish we could have had the Browns on Xmas eve instead of the week after.

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Our offense sucks because the center and QB suck ass. That's the bottom line.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Our offense sucks because the center and QB suck ass. That's the bottom line.

 

The PFF guy who is a fan of this team said based on their metrics Roullier is one of the best centers in the league and losing him is a big loss.  One injury ending season can be an exception, two now is a pattern.  they need to sign or draft a center especially with some durability.

 

Durability IMO is really key for the O line.  Leno isn't great but he's solid and he knock on wood never misses games which is valuable.  Cosmi looks good when he plays but he's off to a worst start than even Scherff did as for injuries.  To me the good news is that IMO we don't have many needs.  But we need to go to town on the O line.  I'll talk about this on the draft thread soon but I've been watching some of the TEs -- its looking like a uniquely really good draft for old school Y TEs.  And since this team likes 2-3 TE sets, adding another pile driver type TE who can catch is in order.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

That book has been written for a while, we just don't let it hurt us very much when we run the ball 40 times a game.

 

You get outta that and we have problems, as we did vs the Giants. Inches from disaster.

True, it looked like we were going to coast with that same game plan early on and the Giants started scoring.  Our gameplan only works if the D plays off the charts.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That aligns with what I was seeing even in real-time.  Even some of the better completions, were a fraction from going the other way.  Luckily, their secondary talent is pretty terrible. 

 

I know it’s never good to look ahead, but the one that scares the bejeezus out of me is the Xmas eve matchup with the 49ers.  That D seems ripe to capitalize on playing a QB like Heinicke. Wish we could have had the Browns on Xmas eve instead of the week after.

 

SF looks brutal.  This team has struggled against bad pass defenses -- Giants, Vikings, Falcons -- imagine against a real defense like SF?

 

I've never attended a playoff game live and if they make it I am toying with doing it this time.  If they make it, I am really hoping its Minny and not SF.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

This Sabah lady just compared Heinicke to Mahomes on 980.

 

I'm done. I don't wanna live on this planet anymore.

[SoCalSkins]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

This Sabah lady just compared Heinicke to Mahomes on 980.

 

I'm done. I don't wanna live on this planet anymore.

Over the last 8 games Chiefs are 6-2. Washington is 6-1-1. Clearly we are superior including QB since it’s a QB driven league. 😂 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

My biggest fear, aside from Dan not selling/being forced to sell.  Not much worse than watching bad football in December with zero chance of a premium draft slot.

 

The Giants game gave me pause because they seemed to be the first to really sit on our pass game.  I know some folks don’t like to hear about almost picks but there were a lot in this past game.  It’s like the secondary was waiting on it, they just failed to capitalize.  Add to that, their front was having a field day and neither our center or Heinicke appeared up to the task of making the right calls at the LOS to neutralize them at all.  Hopefully, the coaching staff can put something together and coach our guys up enough with this extra time.  If not, this will be the blueprint similar to how teams played us after Dallas last season.

 

 

To your first point, yep.  100%.

 

I think last year, we had a banged up oline and Gibson ailing, and outside of Terry, we didn’t have anyone that could either beat man, or get YAC.  I didn’t necessarily buy that it was because Heinicke can’t stretch the field - he’s decent enough (IMO) on intermediate stuff (when he has some time), and his deeper stuff, while rarely thrown well, is/was at least often catchable (though usually resulting in a contested catch situation).  

 

Without time to throw intermediate/deep though, teams can afford to sit back and then break on the shorter stuff.  We’re much better off with this group of pass catchers - Samuel and Dotson are far better route runners than Sims/Brown, and I like Gibson/Robinson out of the backfield a lot more than Patterson, Williams and a turf-toed Gibson.  

So in theory it’s a bit dangerous for defenses to use man coverage, or sit on short stuff (and running the risk of these guys using a double move)… but if Heinicke isn’t given the time to throw, his weaknesses are magnified.  His mechanics are off because he’s rushing things (making his accuracy even worse), his lack of drive (due to both arm strength and rushed mechanics) makes it easier for routes to be jumped, and he can’t loosen the defense up because he doesn’t have time to wait on the intermediate/deep stuff.

 

My hope is that the oline can sustain a bit going forward, Turner tweaks some things on offense (particularly in pass pro vs the Giants), and we can therefore (continue?) to get the Heinicke lead offense we’re used to.  Yes, SF and Dallas are sort of nightmare matchups, but maybe we can pull off wins vs the Giants/Browns.  If we can’t slow the Giants blitzes, Schweitzer can’t solidify the center spot and/or we’re shuffling guys in/out of the lineup at oline… we probably staring at 0-4 down the stretch, barring some big time defensive plays - scores and/or turnovers leading to short fields.  I’m not optimistic.

Edited December 12, 2022 by skinny21

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

33 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

This Sabah lady just compared Heinicke to Mahomes on 980.

 

I'm done. I don't wanna live on this planet anymore.

[Skinsinparadise]

Standig

 

 

[HigSkin]

We should insert Wentz when we get in to the redzone.  LOL

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

We should insert Wentz when we get in to the redzone.  LOL

 

Heinicke on pace for like 14 TDs that's pretty bad.  He's not rushing for TDs either.  Wentz threw for almost the same number that Heinicke has in total in just his first two games.   Granted Wentz slid after that.  I am not a big Wentz guy from what i've seen this season but no doubt I'd trust him over Taylor in the red zone except for when the game is on the line. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Heinicke on pace for like 14 TDs that's pretty bad.  He's not rushing for TDs either.  

 

According to Pro Football Reference, Heinicke, over the course of a 17 game season, would be on pace to have 24 total touchdowns to 17 total turnovers.  Not good.  Wentz was on pace for 28 total touchdowns and 20 total turnovers.  Also not good.  There is no simple fix on this roster at this moment.  It might be Howell, but not this year.  

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

According to Pro Football Reference, Heinicke, over the course of a 17 game season, would be on pace to have 24 total touchdowns to 17 total turnovers.  Not good.  Wentz was on pace for 28 total touchdowns and 20 total turnovers.  Also not good.  There is no simple fix on this roster at this moment.  It might be Howell, but not this year.  

 

He has 9 TDs with 4 games to go.  24 TDs I gather factoring the games he didn't play when Wentz started.

[Zim489]

Anyone but Taylor please

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He has 9 TDs with 4 games to go.  24 TDs I gather factoring the games he didn't play when Wentz started.

 

Yeah it's averaging out the numbers over the course of 17 games.  

[DJHJR86]

Alex Smith's offense in 2018 was averaging 19.7 points per game.  No one in their right mind would have uttered that he should be benched.  Not even at 6-4 had he not gotten injured.  If your argument to go back to Wentz is because you truly believe that no starter should lose their job to injury, that's fair.  I disagree, but it's fair.  But I see no real argument otherwise for going back to Wentz.  Their starting center is injured.  He is a statue.  Sam Howell is not ready.  Logan Thomas?

[redskinss]

35 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Their starting center is injured.  He is a statue.  Sam Howell is not ready.  Logan Thomas?

Are you suggesting that it would be wise to consider putting Logan Thomas in at quarterback before we considered going back to Wentz?

[FootballZombie]

58 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Alex Smith's offense in 2018 was averaging 19.7 points per game.  No one in their right mind would have uttered that he should be benched. 

 

Alex Smith's role in 2018 was a far cry from THs. We were not afraid to throw a pass to win the game with him, in fact you could feel confident he would do everything in his power not to put the ball in harms way, even to a detriment. There was a level of trust from the coaching staff in their QB. He was a true game manager.

 

 

This current club won't formulate a gameplan that does not tear the ball out of their QBs hands and they wont give the the ball to the same QB in OT when its the only way to win a game. The only week-to-week consistency is the active effort to prevent TH from losing the game. He does not have any level of trust from his staff. Its fair to question why he is even out there.

 

 

2018 Smith was never in a situation where his team week-in and week-out tried to minimize his impact.

Edited December 12, 2022 by FootballZombie

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Alex Smith is an overly conservative QB by nature, like someone else said - sometimes to the teams detriment.  There are similarities to this offense with Taylor as it’s generally boring to watch, but the coaches weren’t actively creating game plans week to week that camouflage the QB like Turner is doing here.  To Turner’s credit he’s getting the first read wide open often making it even easier on Taylor.  

[wit33]

17 hours ago, petey hodge said:

Anyone else think that Justin Herbert looks like Buddy Revell from 3 O’clock High?

 

I do.

 

 

No, but he looks like the villain in Kindergarten cop :

 

 

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

True, it looked like we were going to coast with that same game plan early on and the Giants started scoring.  Our gameplan only works if the D plays off the charts.

I disagree a bit, the offense must possess the ball a great deal for a defense to flourish and receive bulk of credit. The offense is greatly contributing to the cool stats the defense can boast about.
 

Thought the offense lead the charge in the first half against Giants while defense struggled, then defense locked in a bit in the second half while offense struggled. Complimentary football at its finest. If one were to look at the totality of stats you’d easily come to conclusion the defense lead the charge, but definitely not the case. 13 points in first half was big to keep pace with Giants offense having the upper hand. Must acknowledge the TO forced by defense was huge as well though. 

 

3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Alex Smith's role in 2018 was a far cry from THs. We were not afraid to throw a pass to win the game with him, in fact you could feel confident he would do everything in his power not to put the ball in harms way, even to a determent. There was a level of trust from the coaching staff in their QB. He was a true game manager.

 

 

This current club won't formulate a gameplan that does not tear the ball out of their QBs hands and they wont give the the ball to the same QB in OT when its the only way to win a game. The only week-to-week consistency is the active effort to prevent TH from losing the game. He does not have any level of trust from his staff. Its fair to question why he is even out there.

 

 

2018 Smith was never in a situation where his team week-in and week-out tried to minimize his impact.

The argument the offense is being limited just because of Heineke seems to be losing some steam if you at all value Paulsen and Copley’s film break downs. No doubt Heinekes arm is limited, but it seems the offense as a whole is also limited by the Oline. 

[CommanderCarson]

Alex smith was crucified on here and it was widely believed we didn’t stand a chance to come back from ANY deficit with him at QB (mostly true). 
 

Now he’s being remembered a bit more fondly here i guess?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

This Sabah lady just compared Heinicke to Mahomes on 980.

 

I'm done. I don't wanna live on this planet anymore.

 

To be fair, though, they're both...male...