Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 3 hours ago, TradeTheBeal! said: If we, and by we I mean the players and coaches and fans, rally around the Heinicke experience despite his obvious shortcomings…then why don’t we look to sign on to the full moxie experience but with significantly less shortcomings? Im talking of course about taking a swing at Baker “king moxie” Mayfield this off-season. Might be fun! Baker can't hold Heinicke's moxiestrap... 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 Koolblue13 interviews Heinicke... 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 20 minutes ago, dunfer said: This stat is really depressing Besides Alex Smith at 11-5, Tony Banks was 8-6 and Todd Collins was 3-0. The biggest what if for me is if Gibbs had drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Carlos Rogers and Jason Campbell. Gave Rodgers a year or 2 behind Todd Collins and we would have added multiple Lombardis to the trophy case. Snyder got cheap bringing Beathard out of retirement last minute and wanted his buddy Cerrato hanging around. Beathard would not have let Joe draft Jason Campbell. The last 15 years would have been so different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said: Besides Alex Smith at 11-5, Tony Banks was 8-6 and Todd Collins was 3-0. The biggest what if for me is if Gibbs had drafted Aaron Rodgers instead of Carlos Rogers and Jason Campbell. Gave Rodgers a year or 2 behind Todd Collins and we would have added multiple Lombardis to the trophy case. Snyder got cheap bringing Beathard out of retirement last minute and wanted his buddy Cerrato hanging around. Beathard would not have let Joe draft Jason Campbell. The last 15 years would have been so different. I'm sorry, you think Dan Snyder and this fanbase would have accepted Aaron Rodgers on the bench behind Todd Collins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, MrJL said: I'm sorry, you think Dan Snyder and this fanbase would have accepted Aaron Rodgers on the bench behind Todd Collins? We would have made the playoffs with Todd Collins so yes. He ran that Al Saunders offense well. It would have taken Aaron a year to digest it. He was more of a west coast offense guy at Cal in college. Joe Gibbs wasn’t likely to start a rookie QB including Rodgers regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunfer Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) In most alternate universes out there where we picked him, we ruined Aaron too. except for one..... jk Hienicke came in and won it all in that universe too Edited October 31, 2022 by dunfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 31, 2022 Share Posted October 31, 2022 11 minutes ago, dunfer said: In most alternate universes out there where we picked him, we ruined Aaron too. except for one..... jk Hienicke came in and won it all in that universe too Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders would not have ruined Rodgers especially with Clinton Portia carrying the rock. Would have been an amazing thing to see. I spend far too many hours contemplating this possibility over and over. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Lets take a step back as far as "he wins games," If the defense we've seen the last 3 weeks was the defense we had to start out the season I think they win the Lions game and Titans game, regardless of who the QB is. The offense under Heinicke isn't scoring more points, the production in the passing game seems to be overall lower, but it the style is different. I also think that when Wentz was brought in Rivera was confident the roster had the O-line that could protect him, but right away they lose the #1 and #2 Centers who are the QB's of the line. The defense has shut down the offense of the last 3 opponents they've faced other than an isolated big play here and there. Now it is fair to say "hey, that is what the defense is supposed to be doing" and I would agree, but they were not doing that the first month of the season. It was not just the QB position that changed when Heinicke took over. Should Wentz return when he is healthy (and ultimately I think the coaches will do that) I am interested to see what he looks behind an O-line that is starting to get healthy again and a defense that is actually performing the way we expected them to going into Week 1. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Lets take a step back as far as "he wins games," If the defense we've seen the last 3 weeks was the defense we had to start out the season I think they win the Lions game and Titans game, regardless of who the QB is. The offense under Heinicke isn't scoring more points, the production in the passing game seems to be overall lower, but it the style is different. I also think that when Wentz was brought in Rivera was confident the roster had the O-line that could protect him, but right away they lose the #1 and #2 Centers who are the QB's of the line. The defense has shut down the offense of the last 3 opponents they've faced other than an isolated big play here and there. Now it is fair to say "hey, that is what the defense is supposed to be doing" and I would agree, but they were not doing that the first month of the season. It was not just the QB position that changed when Heinicke took over. Should Wentz return when he is healthy (and ultimately I think the coaches will do that) I am interested to see what he looks behind an O-line that is starting to get healthy again and a defense that is actually performing the way we expected them to going into Week 1. Over the last 4 1/2 seasons: Record with Alex Smith as starter: 11-5 Record with Taylor Heinicke as starter: 9-8 Record with all other QBs we've had as starter: 8-32 Either the defense only plays well when Smith and Heinicke are starting...or Smith and Heinicke brought something to their games that actually played a role in the team winning those games. Edited November 1, 2022 by Califan007 The Constipated 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 6 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Over the last 4 1/2 seasons: Record with Alex Smith as starter: 11-5 Record with Taylor Heinicke as starter: 9-8 Record with all other QBs we've had as starter: 8-32 Either the defense only plays well when Smith and Heinicke are starting...or Smith and Heinicke brought something to their games that actually played a role in the team winning those games. Or Kam Curl getting healthy and William Jackson getting benched helped out the defense immensely in the pass defense? Not to mention The Bears, Packers, & Colts aren't exactly juggernauts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rumplestilskin Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 8 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said: Taylor wins next 2 weeks, he’s starting the rest of the way. He loses the next 2 weeks, we are going back to Carson when he’s off ir. Ron will thinks we are in playoff hunt; so he will not play Sam at all this season. If Carson doesn’t come back, Ron will try to bring another vet here. Jimmy, Derrick, Ryan, etc.. Whichever QB is available in free agency or by trade; Ron will get them. Ron will not trade up to get a qb. Ron has to win now, not doing that with a rookie. That drafted 1st round qb, not happening until the post Ron era- whether that still under Dan or a new owner. I think the only way Sam sees the field is injury to both Carson and Taylor. Otherwise it might be late 23; if that’s a lost season. Uh, Lamar not going anywhere next year. Ravens will franchise him. They only way they trade him next year; if trading him lands them a top qb in the 23 draft. Lamar would never sign here as a free agent and the commies will not be anywhere near having a pick in the top 5. UH... Lamar aint your average cat and wants the bag he deserves. Why do you say he would never sign here? Contrary to popular opinion it is still all about the Benjamin's. Also franchising him would be 45 mil for a one year rental and that is if he doesnt hold out. He bet on himself this year, I doubt he will do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 7 minutes ago, NoCalMike said: Or Kam Curl getting healthy and William Jackson getting benched helped out the defense immensely in the pass defense? Not to mention The Bears, Packers, & Colts aren't exactly juggernauts. Heinicke didn't play against the Bears. And the defense played no role whatsoever in the 2021 Giants and Falcons games--which, for the record, Curl was healthy for both and Jackson actually played in both, so it should have been a detriment from your logic. And the defense played no role in the almost 11 minute drive that sealed the win at the end of the Bucs game last year. They helped the offense gain an early lead, though. But without that long-ass drive at the end that almost took up the entire 4th quarter, it's realistic that they could have just as easily lost. The best defense is a good offense, and all that. Like I said, unless the argument is that guys like Smith and Heinicke just got lucky the defense only played well when they started, all we're doing is finding different ways of dismissing Heinicke's role in his wins as irrelevant. This is most definitely not a team that can win no matter how mediocre the QB is...they aren't constructed that way and have not had coaches that are so amazing they can make Filet Mignon out of cube steak lol...there's no linear path to the wins. And I can't quantify what he brings to the team that helps them win at least one more game than they lose with him behind center. But I'm not gonna pretend that the team is any better than it is and that Heinicke is really, really lucky and just along for the ride. The two QBs with the absolute least physical attributes, have been the only ones to help lead the team to winning records. All the other QBs with far, FAR more physical talent couldn't do jack with the same teams. So there has to be something else those 2 QBs bring to their game that I'm guessing many don't even think about (or don't consider to be important). 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted November 1, 2022 Author Share Posted November 1, 2022 4 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Koolblue13 interviews Heinicke... No way dude, I wouldn't have hired him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey hodge Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: Baker can't hold Heinicke's moxiestrap... but sadly... Taylor's height is closer to the ladies than the wearer of the NFL-sized moxiestrap/ Edited November 1, 2022 by petey hodge 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 10 hours ago, NoCalMike said: he offense under Heinicke isn't scoring more points Averaging 20 points per game with Heinicke. It was 16 with Wentz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said: Averaging 20 points per game with Heinicke. It was 16 with Wentz. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim489 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) I don’t expect Ron to take a first round QB. If they get the 6-7 wins I think he stays. If they won 2-3 then probably would have been gone. Ron won’t put his job into the hands of a rookie. I legit have no idea who is going to be the QB. Maybe a massive overpay for Derek Carr which would be terrible. Tannehill. Jameis. Jimmy G. Teddy. There’s just no good logical answer. It’s more path to mid. 2023 is going to be the same as well. For the love of god fire these bums and get the rebuild going Edited November 1, 2022 by Zim489 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, Zim489 said: I don’t expect Ron to take a first round QB. If they get the 6-7 wins I think he stays. If they won 2-3 then probably would have been gone. Ron won’t put his job into the hands of a rookie. I legit have no idea who is going to be the QB. Maybe a massive overpay for David Carr which would be terrible. Tannehill. Jameis. Jimmy G. Teddy. There’s just no good logical answer. It’s more path to mid. 2023 is going to be the same as well. For the love of god fire these bums and get the rebuild going I think Ron will take a 1st round QB if they think that's the best option. They've been willing to do plenty to get a better QB in here, and that apparently included trying to trade up for Fields, but they weren't willing to pay the huge price to do so. Unfortunately once again we'll be a ****ty team that managed to squeak by in just enough games to make sure we can't land a top QB prospect in 2023. Should be interesting. They clearly know TH isn't the answer so the question is whether Wentz comes back, and how he looks when he does. And if Wentz still doesn't look good will Ron double down on his decision to bring in Wentz out of pride or would he admit that it wasn't the right move and do in a different direction? Tannehill and Carr probably aren't going anywhere unless their teams cut them or try to trade them and I don't think either of them would be worth what they'd probably be asking for. Jameis, Jimmy G, and Teddy are all ultimate "meh" QBs are would hardly be an upgrade over Heinicke. Pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) Rivera has 2 years left on his contract. With Snyders cash flow problems do we honestly think he’s going to want to fire Rivera and coaching staff (while having to pay all of them for another 2 seasons) AND pay a whole new coaching staff at the same time? We’d NEVER have enough money to pay any players worth a **** in that situation……. we’re stuck with Rivera for at least next year. That’s the unfortunate truth. And who says we’ll win “just enough games to not be able to land a top QB”? Even if we somehow pull 6 wins out of our behinds, there’s this thing called trading up. I have to think (or hope) they’ll find a way to do that in April. Edited November 1, 2022 by Cooleyfan1993 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim489 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 Coaches don’t coach their final year of deals. There’s been one or two situations over the last 20 years that it’s happened. Ron will be fired or extended after the 2023 season 9 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: I have to think (or hope) they’ll find a way to do that in April. I want no part of this terrible coaching/front office picking our next QB while possibly giving up the next staffs assets to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 This is starting to remind me of Tim Tebow, with the all he does is win games stuff despite anybody with eyes seeing that it's not because of him. We could win 4 to nothing this week and nothing will change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 11 minutes ago, Zim489 said: Coaches don’t coach their final year of deals. There’s been one or two situations over the last 20 years that it’s happened. Ron will be fired or extended after the 2023 season There are also probably zero other coaches worth anything who would come here. And throwing boatloads of money won't work anymore, first of all because Dan probably can't do it, and second of all because this team is now hands down the worst run most toxic franchise in the NFL and everyone knows it. I think Ron is Dan's last chance at a coach who even has the slightest shred of credibility. If he fires Ron he'll probably have to scour the college ranks or hire castoffs who were horrible at their previous jobs in the NFL. Say hello to new Head Coach Freddie Kitchens! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB__KEVIN Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 We are one win and one San Fran lost away from 7th spot in playoff race. let’s stop messing around before it’s to late… PUT HOWELL IN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zim489 Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 9 minutes ago, mistertim said: There are also probably zero other coaches worth anything who would come here. And throwing boatloads of money won't work anymore, first of all because Dan probably can't do it, and second of all because this team is now hands down the worst run most toxic franchise in the NFL and everyone knows it. I think Ron is Dan's last chance at a coach who even has the slightest shred of credibility. If he fires Ron he'll probably have to scour the college ranks or hire castoffs who were horrible at their previous jobs in the NFL. Say hello to new Head Coach Freddie Kitchens! Still think it’s better to have a Freddie kitchens instead of a Ron Rivera. At least you’re at better odds of lucking into a QB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted November 1, 2022 Share Posted November 1, 2022 24 minutes ago, Zim489 said: Coaches don’t coach their final year of deals. There’s been one or two situations over the last 20 years that it’s happened. Ron will be fired or extended after the 2023 season I want no part of this terrible coaching/front office picking our next QB while possibly giving up the next staffs assets to do so. I get where you are coming from. But there is a lot in motion right now. Dan is preparing for an expensive battle to keep the team. He has liquidity issues to boot. There’s not a chance he’s eating 2 years salaries for Ron, his staff, and the guys in the FO- of whom I assume have similar contract lengths as Ron. Ron is likely to be here next year minimum, and I could see him being the outlier to coach the last year of his contract - unless something happens swiftly to remove Dan. I get the impression what takes place on the field is merely going to be a sideshow to the main event which will be the NFL vs. Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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