The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Jbird7]

9 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Huh? We didn’t win the lions game……

right, won the first, competitiveish in the 2nd

[skinzplay]

Don't believe the hype on these absurd stories about Wentz's thin skin or how media stories adversely affect his play. Focus on coaches effectively utilizing his skillset and those of the weapons at his disposal. There are ZERO excuses for S. Turner now. ZERO. That's where my anger is directed relative to this offense.

Edited September 26, 2022 by skinzplay
Changed skillet to skillset, not frying anything except this coaching staff

[Jbird7]

4 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Don't believe the hype on these absurd stories about Wentz's thin skin or how media stories adversely affect his play. Focus on coaches effectively utilizing his skillet and those of the weapons at his disposal. There are ZERO excuses for S. Turner now. ZERO. That's where my anger is directed relative to this offense.

1000% agree.

 

This is on RR, STurner, and JDR.

 

I am pretty certain that a casual observer off the street could call plays more effectively at least 55% of the time.

[TMK9973]

41 minutes ago, Jbird7 said:

 

No flipping way.

We won the first 2 games cause Wentz threw for 600+ and 7 tds.

 

Now had we kept Settle, & Flowers, and maybe Ion, we would be in worlds better position, and more importantly if we had brought some flipping NFL caliber LB'rs and CB's into camp to compete with our dumpster fire of a depth chart, we might now be in this mess. 

Oh wait, we would have needed to have brought in a non-gimpy non-panther O linemen or 2 to shore up the revolving turnstile that is an OL as well.

 

I love Henikie, the person, the story, the gritty determination.

To compare his arm with Wentz is dishonest. 

 

Wentz took cap space, but we dont win the first game or have any hope of competing long term with his arm.

 

Howell is the only realistic option, but if this OL cannot stablize, you cannot put him in to get shellacked behind it.

 

You are thinking of it wrong. What games would we have won with Wentz and Dotson and a healthy Samuels.

We didnt win the first two games.

We are 1-2

 

Again -I have no doubt the Wentz is better then Henicike.

 

But if We don't sign Wentz and kept Flowers, Settle and collins I think we are at LEAST 1-2 as well, if not 2-1.   

 

26 minutes ago, Jbird7 said:

It is so frustrating that you people think that Wentz is the issue on this team right now.

 

There are 99 issues on this roster, but Carson Wentz is not one of them.

Now the eagles game exposed what happens if you dont have the RB's running to the flats to counter the blitz. 

But that is poor game adjustments/planning. 

 

That line looked like they were on the Philly payroll.

 

And to run Gibson 12 times for a whooping 38 yards is criminal. 

I encourage you to read again what I wrote.

I dont think Wentz is the issue. 

I think the issues is we did nothing to improve our defense, we didn't even take steps to keep it at least the same as last year.

 

And we didn't do that because we couldn't afford to after we traded for Wentz.

Who I don't think has played well enough to overcome what we lost.

 

If this was Baseball -I would be discussing WAR.

(Wins over replacement).

 

In my head - Henicke would have a WAR off about 0 (Doesnt win us additional games vs a avg QB, didnt cost us games vs a AVG QB).

I would say Wentz has a WAR of about 2.5

I would say Settle, Collins and Flower combined has a WAR of 2.5

 

Sooo - Trading for  Wentz at the expensive of the other guys we had to cut to afford him gives us no additional wins.  

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by TMK9973

[TMK9973]

Dup Post  

 

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by TMK9973

[skinzplay]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but Keim is always on the money. Always. He doesn't come out and directly say certain things; dude has tact and isn't looking for clicks and follows. But Turner is very talented at designing plays, yet HORRENDOUS at situational play-calling. Balance isn't runs vs. passes. It's WHICH running plays/passing plays you call, and when. Turner fails miserably in this context.

 

I actually like RR, but I hope he's shown the door immediately after any possible ownership change. Immediately.

 

[Jabbyrwock]

11 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Focus on coaches effectively utilizing his skillet and those of the weapons at his disposal.

[skinzplay]

Damn auto-correct! You got me @Jabbyrwock. 

[Old Blue]

Wentz has a bigger arm. But Heinicke is head and shoulders above him in leadership qualities. And, he's fun to watch. If we're gonna go down in the usual dumpster fire, I would rather root for someone like Taylor Heinicke. And as far as not running Gibson more. Down 24-0 is not really the time for ball control offense. And I'll say one more thing; Nobody on this board would have given Heinicke the benefit of the doubt had he been sacked 9 times in any game last year. Prove me wrong....

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

[Skinsinparadise]

Still like the trade but Wentz looked yesterday like what some of his critics said about him, he presses in big games (I'd think its a big one for him considering it was against his old team).  And also he is a bit of a roller coaster.

 

I expect to Wentz to bounce back.  I don't put yesterday on Wentz but IMO he was in the mix of a problems.

 

Meanwhile Ryan leads a comeback against the Chiefs with 30 seconds or so left.  It's part of the reason why I said its bad karma to declare early victory on anything  conversely the tide can change back and forth of course.  Should be an interesting season at a minimum.

 

Should be interesting to see how this O line and Wentz and Scott Turner deal with the Cowboys pass rush.  Next Sunday IMO is huge.  The season might be derailed quickly if they lose that one and if they win I think they regain some momentum. 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Still like the trade but Wentz looked yesterday like what some of his critics said about him, he presses in big games (I'd think its a big one for him considering it was against his old team).  And also he is a bit of a roller coaster.

 

I expect to Wentz to bounce back.  I don't put yesterday on Wentz but IMO he was in the mix of a problems.

 

Meanwhile Ryan leads a comeback against the Chiefs with 30 seconds or so left.  It's part of the reason why I said its bad karma to declare early victory on anything  conversely the tide can change back and forth of course.  Should be an interesting season at a minimum.

 

Should be interesting to see how this O line and Wentz and Scott Turner deal with the Cowboys pass rush.  Next Sunday IMO is huge.  The season might be derailed quickly if they lose that one and if they win I think they regain some momentum. 

 

I put 50% on Turner, 40% on the O-Line and 10% on Wentz. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I put 50% on Turner, 40% on the O-Line and 10% on Wentz. 

 

I am ok with that.  I am just not in the camp that Wentz is absolved from blame for yesterday, he played a part in it IMO. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with that.  I am just not in the camp that Wentz is absolved from blame for yesterday, he played a part in it IMO. 

I haven’t really heard that anyone saying he was absolved from blame though.  Just that it all started with a really bad game plan by Scott, that even after watching his Oline get demolished, he stayed the course with it.  There was just no way that was going to yield positive results out of Wentz.  So it wasn’t a shock to me when he joined the meltdown and failed to recover.

[FLSkinz83]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with that.  I am just not in the camp that Wentz is absolved from blame for yesterday, he played a part in it IMO. 

 

I think any pocket QB with limited mobility would have struggled yesterday.    My biggest issue with Carson are the distance of his dropbacks, especially from the shotgun.   Seems like they are too deep.  

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I haven’t really heard that anyone saying he was absolved from blame though.  Just that it all started with a really bad game plan by Scott, that even after watching his Oline get demolished, he stayed the course with it.  There was just no way that was going to yield positive results out of Wentz.  So it wasn’t a shock to me when he joined the meltdown and failed to recover.

 

I have seen some posts, some talk on talk radio.

 

For me though I was mentally braced for some games like this.

 

But I agree Scott Turner needs to understand that this isn't the Hogs blocking for Wentz.

 

I saw somewhere that Schweitzer struggled some at center with low snaps and Wentz tapped him when he wanted the ball and in turn it was easy for the Eagles to time Wentz's cadence. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

Have a look at the Wentz lost fumble and check out the blocking by Cosmi and Turner.  Embarrassing! 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

Have a look at the Wentz lost fumble and check out the blocking by Cosmi and Turner.  Embarrassing! 

Cosmi was on the other end of a few god awful plays that wrecked the game.  But PFF had him as the 2nd highest ranked offensive player.  It felt to me like he was getting worked regularly.

Edited September 27, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I put 50% on Turner, 40% on the O-Line and 10% on Wentz. 

It was 100% the entire team.

 

It’s going to get worse. 

[FLSkinz83]

9 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Cosmi was on the other end of a few god awful plays that wrecked the game.  But PFF had him as the 2nd highest ranked offensive player.  It felt to me like he was getting worked regularly.

 

Being the 2nd highest rated offensive player yesterday isn't saying much.    I would consider starting Lucas at RT and trying Cosmi at Guard.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

It was 100% the entire team.

 

It’s going to get worse. 

 

Maybe but if we look at the posts during this time of the season under Ron its been similar -- slow-abysmal starts and then things get kick started.

 

You got me if this time is different.  But in Carolina too, slow starts, strong finishes mostly.  Last season was an exception but they did have a 4 game winning streak and then COVID hit. 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Being the 2nd highest rated offensive player yesterday isn't saying much.    I would consider starting Lucas at RT and trying Cosmi at Guard.

That might be the best short term solution, but the bigger issue is C. The snaps yesterday were really bad. 

[FLSkinz83]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That might be the best short term solution, but the bigger issue is C. The snaps yesterday were really bad. 

 

Once Nick Martin is ready to go, I'd start him...or Tyler Larsen if he's ready before then. 

[Jumbo]

 

57 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

I put 50% on Turner, 40% on the O-Line and 10% on Wentz. 

Just as a form of expression, I'd even go 20-25 percent on wentz just to shut some simple minded posters up. I've been clear as to the mixed bag wentz is as a bottom line and how he's a half assed temp improvement over a heinie which I'd rather not have spent the money he cost to get. I do loathe the numb brained who keep bringing up heinie as tho he's part of any solution. Those people are simply football stupid. Despite the freaky streak he had, which was still full of flaw, good luck, and receivers willing to take punishment in order to give him some of the wins he got, he's very underwhelming even as a backup and even most of the "he's loved in the locker room" is more myth than reality and the good vibes there dissipated as shortcomings and certain personal positions he has on topics that we don't talk about in this forum, and that he tried to keep out of the locker room for self preservation, became known .

 

It's really annoying to see the posts that jump right to s focus on wentz as the big issue and heinie as any kind of meaningful good change in any way whatsoever. Dumb dumb dumb.   

 

We have a cluster **** at hc, oc, and dc that are at the lead of our pack of issues with dsn at the top of the pyramid. Then we have lots of personnel issues across the roster, not all of them about lack of raw talent, but the end result is the same 

 

We have a LOT wrong and it's been that way quite awhile and will continue as long as dan is owned. I've been saying this for over a decade and the record and any pair of clear eyes feeding a competent brain will support my contentions. We can hope for a better season, even now, with a wentz over what we had and it wouldn't be a totally unfounded hope but it would inevitably fail to bring the kind of team we all want---a team consistently hitting 10 or more wins per season and aop playoff win every 2-3 years (which is hardly shooting for the moon). 

 

Sorry to make it so dark, but that's the reality. We will continue to be a perennial suckass outfit year after year until dan is no more.

 

Posting about w vs th as tho it really is much of a factor in really fixing this cosmic level mess is such a joke.

[Redwards]

15 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Just as a form of expression, I'd even go 20-25 percent on wentz just to shut some simple minded posters up. I've been clear as to the mixed bag wentz is as a bottom line and how he's a half assed temp improvement over a heinie which I'd rather not have spent the money he cost to get. I do loathe the numb brained who keep bringing up heinie as tho he's part of any solution. Those people are simply football stupid. Despite the freaky streak he had, which was still full of flaw, good luck, and receivers willing to take punishment in order to give him some of the wins he got, he's very underwhelming even as a backup and even most of the "he's loved in the locker room" is more myth than reality and the good vibes there dissipated as shortcomings and certain personal positions he has on topics that we don't talk about in this forum, and that he tried to keep out of the locker room for self preservation, became known .

 

It's really annoying to see the posts that jump right to s focus on wentz as the big issue and heinie as any kind of meaningful good change in any way whatsoever. Dumb dumb dumb.   

 

We have a cluster **** at hc, oc, and dc that are at the lead of our pack of issues with dsn at the top of the pyramid. Then we have lots of personnel issues across the roster, not all of them about lack of raw talent, but the end result is the same 

 

We have a LOT wrong and it's been that way quite awhile and will continue as long as dan is owned. I've been saying this for over a decade and the record and any pair of clear eyes feeding a competent brain will support my contentions. We can hope for a better season, even now, with a wentz over what we had and it wouldn't be a totally unfounded hope but it would inevitably fail to bring the kind of team we all want---a team consistently hitting 10 or more wins per season and aop playoff win every 2-3 years (which is hardly shooting for the moon). 

 

Sorry to make it so dark, but that's the reality. We will continue to be a perennial suckass outfit year after year until dan is no more.

 

Posting about w vs th as tho it really is much of a factor in really fixing this cosmic level mess is such a joke.

This is the stone cold truth.