The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[oraphus]

4 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

If he does not work out and they cut him at the start of the next league year, he does not get 28 M. That is less then Wentz makes this year, my point remains valid.

 

I never argued he made more than Wentz.. he would still make 15mil for one year so Saints are on the hook for 15mil, not 4... even if tis spread over several years. 

[FootballZombie]

42 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

But to then argue for Jameis Winston is kind of funny. 

 

Not the first time I've said a package of Wintson, Maye, Badger n Landry > Wentz. I'm good w/ that stance. I'm confident in saying that team with all the former is better than the team with the latter.

7 minutes ago, oraphus said:

I never argued he made more than Wentz.. he would still make 15mil for one year so Saints are on the hook for 15mil, not 4... even if tis spread over several years. 

 

Never said you did. Just pointing out that in the event of a one year scenario, Winston cost millions less then Wentz even if the hit is spread across multiple years. Your using less of a finite resource to pay Winston, and saving millions in cap space.

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Not the first time I've said a package of Wintson, Maye, Badger n Landry > Wentz. I'm good w/ that stance. I'm confident in saying that team with all the former is better than the team with the latter.

They could sign all those guys and Wentz if they wanted to, assuming they wanted to sign here. 
 

Also, you keep willfully ignoring the fact Winston might not be ready for the season and certainly wouldn’t be fully practicing now.  Which is a big deal.  In fact it’s the biggest deal.  And it completely shoots your scenario down, as your combo would not be better because the QB can’t play or practice AND has to learn a new system.

 

There are some hills people choose to die on on this board, snd that’s exactly what happens.  
 

You’ve chosen to die on Winston + other guys is better than Wentz.  Fine.  If Winston could practice/play, MAYBE. But he can’t.

 

And when you look at the contract as a whole + the injury, it’s a remarkably dumb plan.  
 

I hate the Winston contract.  I hope we never do anything like that for a non-sure thing.  Pay fir a guy 4 years after he’s gone against the cap?  Yeesh.  I’d do that for Rodgers or Wilson.  Not Winston.

19 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Never said you did. Just pointing out that in the event of a one year scenario, Winston cost millions less then Wentz even if the hit is spread across multiple years. Your using less of a finite resource to pay Winston, and saving millions in cap space.

BUT HE CANT PLAY OR PRACTICE BECAUSE HES RECOVERING FROM AN ACL INJURY.  

 

This alone disqualifies him.  
 

And you’re wrong.  Spreading out the cap hit into future years is dumb.  The more you pay now and keep flexibility for later the better.

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Also, you keep willfully ignoring the fact Winston might not be ready for the season and certainly wouldn’t be fully practicing now.  Which is a big deal.  In fact it’s the biggest deal.  And it completely shoots your scenario down, as your combo would not be better because the QB can’t play or practice AND has to learn a new system.

 

There are some hills people choose to die on on this board, snd that’s exactly what happens.  
 

You’ve chosen to die on Winston + other guys is better than Wentz.  Fine.  If Winston could practice/play, MAYBE. But he can’t.

 

And when you look at the contract as a whole + the injury, it’s a remarkably dumb plan.  
 

I hate the Winston contract.  I hope we never do anything like that for a non-sure thing.  Pay fir a guy 4 years after he’s gone against the cap?  Yeesh.  I’d do that for Rodgers or Wilson.  Not Winston.

 

BUT HE CANT PLAY OR PRACTICE BECAUSE HES RECOVERING FROM AN ACL INJURY.  

 

There were reports months ago Winston would probably be good to go in training camp.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/03/22/report-jameis-winston-should-be-ready-for-training-camp/

 

He has been throwing in OTAs

 

 

I'm sure he is still recovering, but I don't share the concerns about his inability to practice when he is doing it and seems to be full steam ahead for TC. He can't really do much more than what he is doing at this stage in the offseason due to NFL practice restrictions during OTAs

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by FootballZombie

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Carson Wentz Is Making the Most of What May Be His Last Shot

What stuck out about this particular moment on May 16, to Ron Rivera, is that it really wasn’t meant to stick out at all. It happened organically and, in coming that way, gave the Commanders’ coach another level of encouragement that his team did the right thing in trading for Carson Wentz back in March.

The setting was a country club in northern Virginia near the Potomac River, and the coaches had just knocked off the players after the players challenged them to go out earlier in the offseason. Four foursomes settled it on the golf course that afternoon, and Wentz was in the clubhouse afterward chopping it up with teammates Taylor Heinicke, Cole Holcomb, Kendall Fuller, Jonathan Allen, Joey Slye, Tress Way and Brian Johnson.

“And you watched him, and he integrated himself with everybody so easily. It was really cool to see,” said Rivera, who then added, “It sure looked natural to me. And it’s funny because I’ve heard a lot of things about what was said in Philadelphia, I heard a lot of things that were said in Indianapolis.”

For the record, Wentz and Heinicke won their match that Monday—beating offensive coordinator Scott Turner and quarterbacks coach Ken Zampese.

But the bigger win for Wentz, really, took place on the 19th hole.

While Rivera wouldn’t dive into exactly what he was referencing, from Wentz’s experience with the Eagles and Colts, it doesn’t take too much digging to figure it out. Questions about how he relates with teammates have dogged him since his play first went the wrong way, toward the end of his time in Philly. It was never, to be clear, that Wentz was a bad guy. More so, it was how, and really whether, he was connecting with the guys like a quarterback should.

 

What the Commanders’ coach would say is why, when Washington pulled the trigger back on March 9, he punched the gas where so many others were tapping the brakes on Wentz’s capacity to become again what he was through his first four or so NFL seasons. Specifically, Rivera points to comments he saw, after the trade, from Indy’s alphas—T.Y. Hilton, Darius Leonard and Jonathan Taylor—on who the QB was as a player and as a person.

“Those quotes came out,” Rivera said, “And you were like, O.K., there’s more to the story.”

Rivera feels like he knows the rest now. Or more of it, at least.

Which is why, come this fall, he’s expecting more out of Wentz than most do.

 

Few in the NFL have as much on the line as Wentz does over the next few months. Over the last 24 months, he’s gone from inextricable face of the franchise in Philly to reclamation project in Indy to, now, his own personal Last Chance Saloon in northern Virginia.

How he’s approaching that is much different than you might expect.

So many quarterbacks, and players, who have been in Wentz’s spot before find motivation in slights, and vow to play with the proverbial chip on their shoulder. And for some, that really works, with the doubt of others fueling resurgent play. Wentz, for his part, won’t knock others for that, and he’s certainly felt it from those who gave up on him. It’s just not him to use that the way some other players would.

 

“I don’t think he’s scarred as much. Did it hurt? I’m sure it did,” Rivera said. “But I also think because he’s a young man of faith that he looks at it as part of a plan.”

“There’s for sure a human side—the I wanna prove people wrong,” Wentz said. “But it’s what Coach said, being a man of God, a man of faith, this is a blessing. Playing this game is a blessing. It might not have gone the last couple years the way I saw it in my head. But to know that I’m still healthy, I’m still playing the game I love, and have an incredible family that supports me. And I come home and my wife and daughters, they don’t care if I threw five touchdowns or five picks—it doesn’t matter to them—is a blessing.

 

“Just knowing there’s a purpose and a plan in place, and for me to just, because of my faith, go out and play freely and have fun and enjoy it for as long as I can.”

The rest, he then said, “should take care of itself.”

And Wentz’s hope is by letting relationships happen in the aforementioned organic way, any questions others have lingering from whispers out of Indy and Philly will take care of themselves, too.

The day golfing was just one example of it. Another came the other day in the cafeteria, when coaches found him telling Chase Young and Montez Sweat about his kids over lunch.

Those encounters are normal, of course. They’re also, Wentz recognizes, important, and for more reasons than what people in other places have been saying.

 

“For me, coming in here, it’s a whirlwind. It's a whirlwind for my family, it’s a whirlwind learning the playbook, learning the locker room,” Wentz said. “But I’ve said it in the midst of transition last year, this year, my favorite part of this game is just building relationships with the guys. Trying to do that amidst work and family life is always a tough thing to juggle, but this is the time of year to do that. So whether it’s golf or going to dinner, getting together and going on double dates with guys and their wives, things like that.

 

...“I think when you look at the way he played last year, and really over the course of his career, he’s a guy who’s a big, physical guy, and he’s gonna make a lot of big plays,” Turner said. “He’s a good athlete, and he can extend some plays with his strength and physicality, and then his ability to just push the ball down the field—he’s got a rare ability to do that, not many guys in the league can do it. The way we’ve built our offense, we’ve got some speed on offense, and I think having a guy like that really helps you get the most out of it.”

 

As such, in the minds of the Commanders, there wasn’t a ton of rebuilding that needed to happen in Wentz’s game—more so, it’d be about having the right personnel and the right scheme for Wentz, the kinds that would match his talents.

Accordingly, Terry McLaurin, Curtis Samuel, Dyami Brown, and first-round pick Jahan Dotson, the latter of whom was acquired after Wentz, all run in the low 4.4s or faster. And Turner’s scheme, like his dad’s, values the ability of a quarterback to hang in the pocket and deliver the ball downfield. So at least on paper, this marriage looks like the right one for Wentz.

 

“I definitely felt the speed of the guys,” Wentz said. “It’s only been [six] practices, so you’re getting reps of everything. Obviously, we’re out here running the ball, screens, throwing quick game, trying to mix it up. We’re only taking so many shots. But the ones that are there, you can see the guys are putting speed on tape, and I’m feeling it even on routes on air. I believe it’s the start of something really fun, something really dynamic.”

 

And then, there’s the process he and Turner, and by extension Rivera and Zampese, are working through now, in finding what in the scheme itself Wentz is comfortable with, and what he doesn’t like, to try to tailor the offense to the quarterback. That, really, goes into an area that’s never been a problem for Wentz—his work ethic has always been above reproach, even when a lot of other things were sideways.

 

Where he might tell you now what he’s improved is extending that consistency across the board, in how he operates with even the most menial stuff.

 

...Soon after the trade, he and his wife Stephanie invited Wentz and his wife Madison out to spend a day at their place, and capped it with dinner at Dan and Tanya Snyder’s house. The Wentzes brought their daughters, so over the course of a few hours, the coach got to see his new quarterback interact with, first, his kids, and then his new boss. “He was just so natural and comfortable,” Rivera said. “I liked who he was.”

 

And it only buoyed Rivera’s feeling that he could succeed where Doug Pederson and Frank Reich couldn’t the last two years, and make his stay in Washington more than a stopover.

 

“This guy was 11–3 [in 2017] and blows his knee out trying to score a touchdown for his team,” the coach continued. “Dude was on course to be the league MVP. He had a good, solid year last year until the last two games when he got COVID. We all want to forget the good things, and point to this negativity, and you gotta go, What the hell? I remember when I was in Carolina coaching against him thinking, God, that guy’s a beast.”

 

Plenty of NFL folks, for better or worse, don’t think that version of Wentz is coming back. And the truth is, if it doesn’t happen in Washington, there probably won’t be another team that’ll hand him the keys the way the Commanders are now.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/06/06/mmqb-carson-wentz-commanders-ryan-fitzpatrick-retirement

Edited June 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

I can't believe we're back to rehashing this old ass "let's build up a stellar cast and have a mediocre QB" argument again. The NFL has moved on from that. Every team acknowledges that you need a top franchise QB to be a contender over a long period of time.

 

 

With the cap, injuries, and everything else it's damned hard to keep a stellar cast up on a year to year basis.  If you have a stellar cast, you HAVE to roll the dice, all in, on any quality QB you can find.  Massive overpays because that supporting cast has 1 or 2 years together max unless the team is absolutely crushing the draft again and again.  Which doesn't happen.

[KDawg]

So... what's everyone's thoughts on Wentz vs. Watson now? I haven't been following this thread closely, admittedly. But for all the people who thought making a big move for Watson was the only move we could make: Do you still prefer making that big trade vs. the Wentz trade?

 

I think our move for Wentz looks much better as of late given the draft options (and we got the best QB in the draft anyways) and the quarterback market.

[Forever A Redskin]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So... what's everyone's thoughts on Wentz vs. Watson now? I haven't been following this thread closely, admittedly. But for all the people who thought making a big move for Watson was the only move we could make: Do you still prefer making that big trade vs. the Wentz trade?

 

I think our move for Wentz looks much better as of late given the draft options (and we got the best QB in the draft anyways) and the quarterback market.

 

I will admit I wanted Watson but in hindsight I feel we got the best available option in both FA and the Draft.

[Koolblue13]

The "Wentz last chance" bull**** has to stop. If we cut him after this year, he'll get another starting job next season. And the season after that, too. Look at guys like Grossman, Fitz, Cutler (who openly didn't want to play, but his wife made him) all continued to get starting jobs for years, regardless. It's extremely hard to find a starting QB and when a guy can throw a perfect 60 yard pass, they won't be unemployed long. Especially in a league where everyone thinks they're smarter than the next guy.

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So... what's everyone's thoughts on Wentz vs. Watson now? I haven't been following this thread closely, admittedly. But for all the people who thought making a big move for Watson was the only move we could make: Do you still prefer making that big trade vs. the Wentz trade?

 

I think our move for Wentz looks much better as of late given the draft options (and we got the best QB in the draft anyways) and the quarterback market.

 

Some of the pro Watson people were intense.  I recall months back I put up a negative story on Watson and got some thumbs down for just posting the story from some. 

 

Watson is a great player.  But the stories about him, wow. 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

If I'm Baker, there is zero chance you ever see me in a Browns uniform again.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

If I'm Baker, there is zero chance you ever see me in a Browns uniform again.

 

the Baker part is an odd subplot, 18 million cap hit that they've tried to unload and apparently no team is willing to take on that cap hit.  So they look stuck with at a minimum the cap hit even if they unload him. 

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

the Baker part is an odd subplot, 18 million cap hit that they've tried to unload and apparently no team is willing to take on that cap hit.  So they look stuck with at a minimum the cap hit even if they unload him. 

Every single part of them getting Watson was a colossal blunder.

[KDawg]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Some of the pro Watson people were intense.  I recall months back I put up a negative story on Watson and got some thumbs down for just posting the story from some. 

 

Watson is a great player.  But the stories about him, wow. 

 

 

Oh I was raked over coals for not wanting him. So I hear you.

 

There is too much fire (not even smoke) around him. I don't know if he is guilty or not. But there has to be something for this to still be going on. And those issues will follow him every direction he turns until this is straightened out. Ultimately Cleveland may be vindicated for their decision. But this current situation is EXACTLY why I was happy we went with Wentz and not Watson. Wentz may not turn out, but at least he's not embroiled in major accusations. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, FootballZombie said:

 

In a time where players don't see the money at the end of there deals once the G money runs out, I disagree. Viewing a QBs APY is not a clear representation of what they will get.

 

Rodgers signed a deal back in 2018 that averaged 31 Mil a year. He has yet to have a cap hit that has exceeded much more than 29. His actual avg was south of 25M. His highwater mark did not even reach the average forecasted pay at the start of the deal. Looking at his next contract, he may have 50 M APY but GB is not locked into that price range. When its all said in done, Rodgers aint gonna average 50 a year.

 

Looking at the actual hit in a year lets you see how much they really cost, vs looking at some number that will likely be drastically undercut when all is said and done.

No, you're wrong.  You don't look year to year, NOR do you look at the AAV.  Both of those are simplistic and misleading.

 

You look at the total guaranteed value of the contract, and then you look at the way the contract is spread through the years, where the exit ramps are, and the amount of dead cap space you have at any time.

 

If you just look at the current year, you COULD be fooled into thinking the Winston deal was a steal.  

 

But if you look further, you see that it's nowhere near as much of a steal, because if they cut him after this season, they have an $11M cap hit in 2023 and an $8M cap hit in 2024. 

 

Sure, they're getting the benefit of the $4M THIS year, but there is no good off-ramp.

 

In the other scenario where he plays 2 years, they take a bigger hit next year, and then they have 3 years where they are paying him after he's off the team.  That's not ideal either.  

 

You have to look at the entire picture.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

I'm sure he is still recovering, but I don't share the concerns about his inability to practice when he is doing it and seems to be full steam ahead for TC. He can't really do much more than what he is doing at this stage in the offseason due to NFL practice restrictions during OTAs

He can't take place in all the drills, and there's no way you're putting him in 11-11 or pre-season games coming off of a torn ACL when training camp starts.  Period.  It would be a constant story of what he can do, what he can't do, etc.  If he's "ahead" and able to participate fully, great, but you absolutely never know.  

 

 

With the Saints, he knows the offense and the players.

 

He was never an option here because of his injury.  Why in the world would you introduce another player recovering from serious injury to our roster? We already have 2 of them in Chase Young and Logan Thomas.  We already have questions about their availability in the opener.  We have so many injury problems of our own, why sign a guy and add to the problem?

 

And before you say Wentz has an injury problem of his own, fine, but he hasn't missed a game due to injury since 2018 and he's not currently recovering from an injury.

 

And again, your hypothesis is pretty meaningless anyway.   If they wanted the Honey Badger, they could have thrown money at him and signed him.  They have the cap room to literally do anything they want.  There is no reason to gamble on a lesser, injured QB to save a few bucks on the cap this year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Oh I was raked over coals for not wanting him. So I hear you.

 

There is too much fire (not even smoke) around him. I don't know if he is guilty or not. But there has to be something for this to still be going on. And those issues will follow him every direction he turns until this is straightened out. Ultimately Cleveland may be vindicated for their decision. But this current situation is EXACTLY why I was happy we went with Wentz and not Watson. Wentz may not turn out, but at least he's not embroiled in major accusations. 

 

No doubt.  And it goes double with the contract the Browns gave him, 230 million guaranteed.  If the Watson drill continues to go off the rails it could cripple that team for years.

Edited June 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Fan since a Fetus]

Eh, if I’m Baker and Watson is suspended, I come in for my $18 mill, work as hard as I can, ball out this year and peace out next with a huge contract from another team.

 

i think Baker is a starter somewhere if he’s healthy. 
 

i was against signing Watson. So so glad we didn’t. Wentz was the best available. I’m really glad we got him. 

[Warhead36]

Amongst realistic options, Wentz was the best available for us. Everyone else was either a FA(meaning they wouldn't sign here)or they had too much power/leverage and would refuse a trade here.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

Oh I was raked over coals for not wanting him. So I hear you.

 

There is too much fire (not even smoke) around him. I don't know if he is guilty or not. But there has to be something for this to still be going on. And those issues will follow him every direction he turns until this is straightened out. Ultimately Cleveland may be vindicated for their decision. But this current situation is EXACTLY why I was happy we went with Wentz and not Watson. Wentz may not turn out, but at least he's not embroiled in major accusations. 

 

Yea the pro Watson faction was rabid. He was on the top of my Do Not Sign list. In fairness so was Wentz but for very different reasons. Wentz is growing on me. May have something to do with all the irrational hate thrown at him. I have no idea if he will work our here but I do know the QB room just got exponentially more talented. I have a hard time believing that will translate to more losses but stranger things have happened. 

 

 

47 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And again, your hypothesis is pretty meaningless anyway.   If they wanted the Honey Badger, they could have thrown money at him and signed him.  They have the cap room to literally do anything they want.  There is no reason to gamble on a lesser, injured QB to save a few bucks on the cap this year. 

 

And that is the real point. The entire $28M is keeping the team from building a roster is and has been pretty much bull****. Yes they have $28M (at worst $24M less since you have to pay the other QB) less money to spend but it's not like they can't work contracts to get what they want. The real difference is the expected performance of Wentz vs. the bargain basement QBs. For me Wentz is >>>> than Winston, Dalton., Trubisky, Foles and the rest of the scrubs after Wilson and Rogers were off the table. 

 

 

17 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

They are both players hanging onto starting spots by a thread. They both have positives and negatives. Never said Winston was a perfect prospect, or even a better prospect, but Winston at 4M plus a bunch of impact players is a lot better than Wentz at 28M.

 

This completely ignores that QB is the most important position on the field. I am/was one of the bigger proponents for getting Winston but as more of a last resort. But you can't get a "bunch of impact" players. You can sign some FAs with names that have been discarded by other teams for lack of production of they cost too much or both. You gave a list before and listed Honey Badger, Maye and Landry. That's not a "bunch" of impact players. That 's 3 players, 2 of which will be on the 3rd team, the other thier 4th. Yes Wentz is on his 3rd team also. But QB is and will always be different, not to mention the one year at Indy he played well jsut got run out of town by the drug addict owner. . And the reason they could all be had cheap is because that's all they are worth. Not saying they could not help the team. But improving the QB is >>>>> than those 3 put together and Winston is not the upgrade you need to balance that equation. 

 

18 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

Winston, Honey Badger, Marcus Maye, Dalton for emergencies and back-up, plus Jarvis Landry, all for 17 Mil this year. You'd have 10+ Million in change to roll over from Wentz proverbial 28 Mil if desired. Add in our actual draft class and whammo, you got a squad. You put any QB behind that roster and they are getting keelhauled to a good season, plus you still have your possible franchise QB w/ upside.

 

You can't possibly believe this can you? Adding a few middling players - that is what they at this piont in thier careers - does not drag a bad QB into a good season. Hopefully there were some adult beverages involved when you typed this. 

 

 

 

[SkinsFTW]

Any of those guys would have wanted a lot more to sign with Doofus Dan's team. Mathieu picked the Saints specifically, the others may have as well. Winston definitely did, he learned behind Brees and the team wanted him as his replacement. For him to then bail out to go join a 20+ year dumpster fire would take a few extra sets of balls and a whole lot more money.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

So... what's everyone's thoughts on Wentz vs. Watson now? I haven't been following this thread closely, admittedly. But for all the people who thought making a big move for Watson was the only move we could make: Do you still prefer making that big trade vs. the Wentz trade?

 

I think our move for Wentz looks much better as of late given the draft options (and we got the best QB in the draft anyways) and the quarterback market.

My stance on him was "all of the legal trouble must be 100% settled and we have to know what the suspension is, or no thank you."

 

I drew somewhat of a line between the civil and the criminal, but my big thing was knowing about the suspension.  We still don't know about the suspension.  There are still legal troubles.  I am still comfortable with my original position.  

 

As far as Baker goes, here's the problem:  he wants out, they probably want him out, but he has an $18M cap hit they take if they release him. They can trade him, and the other team would take the hit, but nobody seems to want to do that just yet.  

 

Here's the bad news for Baker: he has to show up to collect his $18M.  The only way he doesn't get it, as far as I understand, is if he holds out and doesn't show. Otherwise it's 100% guaranteed.

 

He wants the $18M.  It's not like he's hurting for money, his contract paid him a signing bonus of $21M.  But his total cash years 2-4 ~$10M (That's $3.3/year for a starting QB.  That's peanuts).  The $18M might be his last big pay day for a while, because it's doubtful anybody is signing him for that amount right now on the free agent market.

 

So, the question is, do the Browns just live with it and keep him on the roster, and essentially force him to show up and play, because if he doesn't, he doesn't get his money? If he has to play, it's in his best interest to play as well as he possibly can, because one way or another, he's hitting FA in 2023, and if he plays well, with the QB market what it is, he could make BANK.

 

Or do they try and trade him to either Seattle or Carolina, but eat some of the cap space.  However, you'd think a trade would absolutely have to include an extension, unless it's for something like a 6th or 7th round pick.

 

So the whole thing is a bit of a pickle.

 

However, if I'm Baker, I'm showing up to everything mandatory, and forcing the Browns to pay every single red cent he is owed.  Period.  If that means starting, then start.  It's not to save the Browns, it's to collect $18M and set yourself up for FA.

 

What would truly be a fantastic story would be if Watson is suspended for the entire season, Baker comes in, plays extremely well, they make the playoffs, and then he leaves in FA, and Watson is suspended another year. That would actually make me smile a whole lot.  Because the Browns would have gotten what they deserve.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Amongst realistic options, Wentz was the best available for us. Everyone else was either a FA(meaning they wouldn't sign here)or they had too much power/leverage and would refuse a trade here.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate.  I think they could have gotten Mariota, Mitch or Teddy if they wanted any of them.  They had the money to just make the best offer, and if they offered 10-15% more than anybody else, they'd happily come here for the money.  None of those guys were going to get $25M/year.

 

The only top tier guy who got traded was Wilson.  Rodgers and Carr stayed put.  And Seattle wanted to trade Wilson to the AFC, which is their right, so the Commanders were never really an option.  If it had been even-steven?  Would Wilson have chosen here over Denver?  I dunno.  He never had the option to say yes or no, as far as we know.  If he came here, it's not like our supporting cast wouldn't be similar to Denver's, and it's a MUCH easier road to hoe to get to the NFC Championship game. If given the option, I think he would have considered it.

 

Ryan wasn't available.  We asked.  Atlanta said no.  Then went after Watson.  Then Ryan was available AFTER we traded for Wentz. And he's old as dirt and most likely has max 2 years left.

 

Baker wasn't available.  Same deal.  

 

I will say this, IF Baker was available, and I had a choice between Baker and Wentz,  I'd have to think about that one. Trade Compensation and Contract would absolutely come into play.  I think there is something to Baker Baker the Touchdown Maker.  But I'm not sure how much there is.  He's been in a piss-poor organization (kindof like this one), so who knows.  

 

The other thing with Baker, however, is you would almost have to include an extension in the trade, unless it was for a 1 year rental and you were willing to possibly play the franchise tag game. 

 

Wentz has 3 years of control left, and that's important.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

And that is the real point. The entire $28M is keeping the team from building a roster is and has been pretty much bull****. Yes they have $28M (at worst $24M less since you have to pay the other QB) less money to spend but it's not like they can't work contracts to get what they want. The real difference is the expected performance of Wentz vs. the bargain basement QBs. For me Wentz is >>>> than Winston, Dalton., Trubisky, Foles and the rest of the scrubs after Wilson and Rogers were off the table. 

I really hate Ron brought it up to begin with, and it's the only thing which I think points to Dan maybe having some liquidity issues.  (I don't actually believe that narrative, FWIW, but Ron saying it started the fire.)

 

I think what they're doing with the cap makes some sense:  They have 4 players they need to take care of who are core guys in the next 2 years: Terry, Payne (maybe), Holcomb and Kurl. Then immediately behind that you have Sweat and Young.  

 

They really believe they have a good core of guys, and they want to keep them around.   So, while they COULD go completely wild and spend freely and kick the can down the road, they are not because they want to maintain flexibility in future years.

 

But, honestly, they could do anything they damn well wanted.  If they wanted to go "all-in" this year and kick cap space down the road, they could.  And they could adopt the Rams/Saints view of the world, "we'll deal with 2024 when we're in 2024."  And then they could kick more down the road then.  

 

I personally think they are being a little cautious.  That COULD be because of Dan's cash issues. (Easy solution, go to the games, the team makes more money, they can pay more players.)  I'm not sure that's really it.  I think it's more that Ron/Martin/Marty/Rob Rodgers just being more cautious AND thinking they have a really good team right now and they don't want to spend for no reason.  I don't know if they're right or not.  Time will tell.