The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Conn]

17 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Sorry, I don't buy that as the main reason he's no longer on the Colts. If the product on the field was better, I highly doubt any owner would put so much priority on their disagreement about the vaccine. Case in point - Aaron Rodgers. He lied about his status, and when called out on it, his attitude was basically "So? I'm Aaron ****ing Rodgers. What are you going to do about it?" And that was the end of it (except for a bunch of network talking heads getting on their high horse about it). Not saying anyone would ever expect Wentz to be on par with Rodgers, but a more convincing product on the field, and a playoff berth, would have probably kept him in Indy.

This doesn’t relate to Wentz but just as a point of order, that wasn’t really the same situation. Rodgers was lying specifically to the media about his status to seem vaccinated because he knew how it would look and the flack he’d catch. His team or at least coaches/FO knew his real status all along and were fine with it. 

 

I agree with you that if Wentz hadn’t imploded at the end of the season and had made the playoffs as expected he’d still be a Colt. I’m not going to call that bad luck because he had a hand in those poor games, but I will call it variance when being unable to beat the Jags in one game is why he is on our roster. If he would have been good enough for the Colts with one week 18 win and that playoff berth, then he’s good enough for us as a stopgap to get us competitive. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That ball traveled from the 30 to the 10 in the air in no time flat.  
 

There is a whole lot more to playing QB than arm strength.  But when you can force the defense to cover literally 60 yards down field from the LOS, you’ve completely changed the game and force the defense  not to stack 8 or 9 guys in the box.

 

Honestly, the guy who’s probably most stoked about this should be Gibson.  Wentz is good enough to see if they are loading the box, check to a pass and beat them deep.  Gibson shouldn’t have to run into a brick wall over and over. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Voice_of_Reason

[DiscoBob]

22 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Schefter confirmed this on NFL Live saying there was a riff the day he walked thru the door about vaccination status.  He said it divided "people" and I took that to me players, coaches but makes sense now.

 

21 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Sorry, I don't buy that as the main reason he's no longer on the Colts. If the product on the field was better, I highly doubt any owner would put so much priority on their disagreement about the vaccine. Case in point - Aaron Rodgers. He lied about his status, and when called out on it, his attitude was basically "So? I'm Aaron ****ing Rodgers. What are you going to do about it?" And that was the end of it (except for a bunch of network talking heads getting on their high horse about it). Not saying anyone would ever expect Wentz to be on par with Rodgers, but a more convincing product on the field, and a playoff berth, would have probably kept him in Indy.

 

I hope Indy cut bait mostly because of vaccination rift, won't be a problem for us this year, and it means there's not another unknown issue

[Bifflog]

27 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

We had a 9 spots tougher schedule than the Colts. Wentz won 2 more games than Taylor. Taylor only played 16 games. This year we will have a much easier schedule. Wentz led team better be like 11+ wins at least so then we can say it was a significant upgrade, until then he is a slight or 2 more wins upgrade from Taylor. 

 

 

I think this is pretty fair, really.

[SoCalSkins]

9 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

RGIII on NFL Live said his buddy Chris Canty referred to Wentz as a passenger and not bus driver, meaning he isn't going to be your alpha in the locker room but we've got a coach that does that along with other player alpha's like Jon Allen and Terry McL

 

 

Maybe the Commanders can hire RG3 as a leadership and bus driver consultant. He can teach Wentz how to spend day and night on social media, create a line of socks with corny quotes and how to spend time alone in your room hiding from your teammates while looking to upgrade the mother of your kid you just married. The advanced course goes into buddying up with the owner and undermining the coaching staff. 

[BraveWarrior]

2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Wentz is a professional athlete who puts in serious time working on his craft. Dude is going to be pissed off at the narrative around him right now. This is basically a make it or break it year for him. I think he is going to put up numbers like he did in 2017 before he got hurt.  I am never this optimistic about anything with this team but it just feels like this is finally our time. 

That could be why we are in disagreement over this. You are coming at from a very optimistic point of view. I'm seeing it as yet another questionable move by a team that needs to raise the bar higher than they typically do when it comes to personnel moves. I keep thinking that they should have done more to get Wilson, but now I'm hearing they offered 3 1st round picks and got rejected, so I guess I'm wrong there.  

 

It's not you, it's me. I was hoping they'd really come through with a major move at QB and that would help push down the bile of resentment I have over the rebrand, at least a little bit. Wentz doesn't do that for me. 

 

One thing I will say about Wentz though - he could be a good ambassador for the team in the community. When he was still with Philly, I saw a piece on him becoming friends with a young Eagles fan and his family. It was very touching. From that day on, I really liked Carson as a person.  

[Koolblue13]

This whole Wentz imploded the last two games thing is pretty misleading. They lost to the Raiders who were fighting for their playoff lives and playing really good football and the Colts haven't won in Jax since 2014. They just don't win those games and it wasn't just Wentz who sucked. Their Oline fell completely apart. The Jags have a pretty great front 7 who also beat the Bills. They're a thorn in that division.

[FootballZombie]

20 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

So they offered a 4rth and 6th and Indy said no. Other teams were also actively trying to trade for him, but you believe a 7th round swap would have worked.

 

Makes sense.

 

Who says they said no? As long as they moved him b4 the G money kicked in they were fine. They could have waited to see if they got any new offers.

 

And they did. From us

[MrJL]

10 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Off the top of my head, I can't think of too many QBs who achieved a lot of success without having that leadership trait. Randall Cunningham was a guy like that. He'd come off the field after a series where they failed to score, and he'd sit on the bench with a towel over his head. Statistically, he was a good QB, but he couldn't get a very talented team (that had vocal leaders at other positions) over the hump. 

 

well Jimmy Garopollo got the 49ers to the NFC Championship

 

[BraveWarrior]

5 minutes ago, Conn said:

This doesn’t relate to Wentz but just as a point of order, that wasn’t really the same situation. Rodgers was lying specifically to the media about his status to seem vaccinated because he knew how it would look and the flack he’d catch. His team or at least coaches/FO knew his real status all along and were fine with it. 

 

I agree with you that if Wentz hadn’t imploded at the end of the season and had made the playoffs as expected he’d still be a Colt. I’m not going to call that bad luck because he had a hand in those poor games, but I will call it variance when being unable to beat the Jags in one game is why he is on our roster. If he would have been good enough for the Colts with one week 18 win and that playoff berth, then he’s good enough for us as a stopgap to get us competitive. 

I appreciate that point of view. 

[Doctorfro]

Unless he has a personality change between now and training camp, this is bad move. Poor leader, inconsistent and a history of bad choices. This is about to be a waste of time and draft choices. I hope I’m wrong but I doubt it. I also thought we should do whatever possible to draft Joe Burrow instead of Chase Young.

[Voice_of_Reason]

32 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

We had a 9 spots tougher schedule than the Colts. Wentz won 2 more games than Taylor. Taylor only played 16 games. This year we will have a much easier schedule. Wentz led team better be like 11+ wins at least so then we can say it was a significant upgrade, until then he is a slight or 2 more wins upgrade from Taylor. 

 

My God this constant attempt at trying to convince a message board full of football fans (who generally know kindof what they’re looking at sometimes) a mediocre (at best) football player is actually not mediocre (at best)  must be exhausting.

 

I’m so tired for you I’m going to sleep.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Who says they said no? As long as they moved him b4 the G money kicked in they were fine. They could have waited to see if they got any new offers.

 

And they did. From us

It was posted earlier. We offered them that before we offered Wilson anything. They said no. Then other teams came calling for Wentz, after Wilson was traded, so we had to up it. We didn't just decide to pay more for no reason.

[SoCalSkins]

3 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

That could be why we are in disagreement over this. You are coming at from a very optimistic point of view. I'm seeing it as yet another questionable move by a team that needs to raise the bar higher than they typically do when it comes to personnel moves. I keep thinking that they should have done more to get Wilson, but now I'm hearing they offered 3 1st round picks and got rejected, so I guess I'm wrong there.  

 

It's not you, it's me. I was hoping they'd really come through with a major move at QB and that would help push down the bile of resentment I have over the rebrand, at least a little bit. Wentz doesn't do that for me. 

 

One thing I will say about Wentz though - he could be a good ambassador for the team in the community. When he was still with Philly, I saw a piece on him becoming friends with a young Eagles fan and his family. It was very touching. From that day on, I really liked Carson as a person.  

Wilson personally turned down coming here according to a report. I wanted him or Watson but when Jimmy G might not be willing to come here you have to pull the trigger and change the narrative. A 2017 pre injury Wentz is better than both of those guys. The arm talent is undeniable even last last year and he’s deceptively elusive in the pocket. We have a very legit chance with him in my opinion. Dude I’m the last guy that comes in as optimistic about anything and especially anything QB related with this team. However, I think it’s going to click this year and we are going to do more damage than we have since Gibbs 1.0

[Jericho]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Guess we gotta hope we nail our UDFA class this year because we probably need about 6 guys to stick to our opening day 53

 

Maybe sign more than 1 this year? Or the 4 from 2020?

[Conn]

7 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

It's not you, it's me. I was hoping they'd really come through with a major move at QB and that would help push down the bile of resentment I have over the rebrand, at least a little bit. Wentz doesn't do that for me. 

This is an extremely important and self-aware post and I think a similar sentiment of resentment is what’s driving a lot of the unhappiness on this site and on twitter. People allowed themselves to dream big at QB like Denver fans did and the whiplash of now dealing with the reality is making the deal seem a lot worse than it actually is to lots of fed up, miserable fans. Understandably. The juxtaposition of what feels like “could have been” (even though it couldn’t have been) vs what actually is, is jarring to a lot of people. 
 

If we offered big but Wilson was just never traded and the only other big QB name dealt this offseason is Jimmy G, then some people would feel a lot differently. But the reality is that for US, Wilson may as well not have been traded at all because he wouldn’t come here. So there’s no difference to us. But irrationally, it would feel better if no other big QBs moved and we made this deal. 

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

It was posted earlier. We offered them that before we offered Wilson anything. They said no. Then other teams came calling for Wentz, after Wilson was traded, so we had to up it. We didn't just decide to pay more for no reason.

 

All I've seen is us boosting our offer after missing out on Wilson

[zCommander]

3 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My God this constant attempt at trying to convince a message board full of football fans (who generally know kindof what they’re looking at sometimes) a mediocre (at best) football player is actually not mediocre (at best)  must be exhausting.

 

I’m so tired for you I’m going to sleep.

 

Yeah you better go to sleep since that is not what I said. 

[Bifflog]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

My God this constant attempt at trying to convince a message board full of football fans (who generally know kindof what they’re looking at sometimes) a mediocre (at best) football player is actually not mediocre (at best)  must be exhausting.

 

I’m so tired for you I’m going to sleep.

 

I do think it's a fair win total to ask though for a big upgrade.  Accounting for context, I think they could get there (i.e. if the rest of the team holds up its end vs. what it did last year).

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

well Jimmy Garopollo got the 49ers to the NFC Championship

 

And a Sb 2 years earlier for whatever that’s worth.

[BraveWarrior]

4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Wilson personally turned down coming here according to a report. I wanted him or Watson but when Jimmy G might not be willing to come here you have to pull the trigger and change the narrative. A 2017 pre injury Wentz is better than both of those guys. The arm talent is undeniable even last last year and he’s deceptively elusive in the pocket. We have a very legit chance with him in my opinion. Dude I’m the last guy that comes in as optimistic about anything and especially anything QB related with this team. However, I think it’s going to click this year and we are going to do more damage than we have since Gibbs 1.0

Pretty sure Wilson would have to waive a no-trade clause to go anywhere, so I guess DC really wasn't an option for him, despite having a Richmond connection. 

 

Wish I could be as hopeful as you. It would be great to see him regain his early form come September.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Yeah you better go to sleep since that is not what I said. 

It's all you've been saying for months

[Conn]

10 minutes ago, Doctorfro said:

I also thought we should do whatever possible to draft Joe Burrow instead of Chase Young.

So did most people but that pick was never being traded, the Bengals had their savior in hand and weren’t gonna fumble it. So this is a weird gripe or brag (can’t tell which). 

[Bifflog]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

It's all you've been saying for months

 

To play devil's advocate (I am more less optimistic about this move)...

 

PFF doesn't think he's crazy...

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-whats-next-for-indianapolis-colts-washington-commanders-carson-wentz-trade-2022

 

"WHAT WASHINGTON IS GETTING WITH WENTZ

 

Wentz is a slight upgrade for the Commanders, who trotted out Taylor Heinicke for the 2021 season. The former Colt and Philadelphia Eagle earned a 70.9 PFF grade last season that ranked 21st among quarterbacks. Heinicke, on the other hand, ranked 29th among the same group with a 59.4 mark. Wentz generated 1.56 PFF Wins Above Replacement (WAR) while Heinicke produced 0.7. 

What does all of this tell us?

Washington is going to get better on offense, but only marginally. At the end of the day, this team is still likely to hover a game below a winning record with Wentz at the helm. Yes, Wentz did have that standout 2017 season that put him squarely in the MVP race, but that was a result of success in unstable areas."

Edited March 10, 2022 by Bifflog

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Yeah you better go to sleep since that is not what I said. 

Oh come on.  It’s exactly what you meant.