The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[JamesMadisonSkins]

On the flip side, the simulation that I just ran is pretty juicy ..

11: Malik Willis, QB Liberty

42: Christian Watson, WR NDSU

73: Jaylen Wydermeyer, TE Texas A&M

112: Leo Chenal, LB Wisconsin

 

Of course, this is addressing current needs, without knowing who we get in FA. But I'd kill for that draft today if you told me we could get Marcus Williams at FS, along with Mariota/Winston/Trubisky at QB and maybe a Devondra Campbell at MLB

[Redskins 2021]

20 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Curious what the price on Watson ends up being. Trading before the judgment comes down ... slight discount? There's also the element of the Texans having to trade him at this point, it's known he won't wear that uniform again. So maybe you can get away with a low-ball offer especially if your competition is Carolina and Pittsburgh. Carolina has pick #6 which is appealing, but they have no other picks until Round 4 this year. So if we could offer #11, #43 ... next year's 1st .. that might be a good starting point and better than those 2 can offer in terms of draft capital this year.

 

I'm not sure if Carolina is all-in on Watson given they're rumored to be looking to off-load DJ Moore and CMC. I would think those two would be enticing options in bringing Watson to Carolina. And they seem to want to build their defense, so I'm not sure if they'd be willing to part with too much of their defensive talent.

 

If we offered #11, #43, Daron Payne and a 2023 1st round pick, it might be enough to get the deal done.

 

Houston would have a DL-men to build around. They would have picks #3 and #11 this year to get creative and build around Mill. They could get the #1 or #2 OT at #3 and then get the #1 or #2 WR at #11. Plus they'd have 3 early 2nd round picks. That could do a lot of damage in this draft.

can't do till criminal charges gone

[allannis]

I would not trade Payne straight up for Watson let alone with picks.

[Redskins 2021]

It's going to be expensive but thus make us super bowl contender 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[allannis]

Not 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Koolblue13]

15 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Well, thanks for clearing that up.

 

Close down the thread, Ansel's got it covered.

Between him and Zim, I don't know why we even speculate. Someone should call Ron and the Marty's and let them know it's all handled. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[FlyBigBeard]

23 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

On the flip side, the simulation that I just ran is pretty juicy ..

11: Malik Willis, QB Liberty

42: Christian Watson, WR NDSU

73: Jaylen Wydermeyer, TE Texas A&M

112: Leo Chenal, LB Wisconsin

 

Of course, this is addressing current needs, without knowing who we get in FA. But I'd kill for that draft today if you told me we could get Marcus Williams at FS, along with Mariota/Winston/Trubisky at QB and maybe a Devondra Campbell at MLB

Now that would be a great draft, but I don't think Leo will make it to 112 

[HoggLife]

25 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

On the flip side, the simulation that I just ran is pretty juicy ..

11: Malik Willis, QB Liberty

42: Christian Watson, WR NDSU

73: Jaylen Wydermeyer, TE Texas A&M

112: Leo Chenal, LB Wisconsin

 

Of course, this is addressing current needs, without knowing who we get in FA. But I'd kill for that draft today if you told me we could get Marcus Williams at FS, along with Mariota/Winston/Trubisky at QB and maybe a Devondra Campbell at MLB

That is an off-season dream right there. Not much better then that and honestly could be possible except I just don't see Leo Chenal falling thay far. Maybe we trade up some to grab him. 

[Darth Tater]

43 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

People keep bringing up not tanking in 2020. Do y'all forget just how horrendously bad the NFC East was that year? We basically won it by default. And no coach is gonna try to lose games on purpose, you'd have a mutiny on your hands and would completely lose the locker room. Its such a stupid argument. 

Losing games when you are the better team is a good predictor of over-all failure. I suspect that is because you have leadership with no credibility and, while QB is important to get you over the hump from mediocrity to playoff contender, a roster bad enough to successfully tank cannot be helped that much by a QB (in Watson's best year, Houston still only won 4 games, part of the reason Luck's Colts were really just high-end mediocre was that they never gave Luck tools). Further, no team in the NFL has had long-term success tanked and many teams in recent years that might have are still just mediocre to suck.

[Redskins 2021]

would we want Tannehill if available 

[Est.1974]

55 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I'm all in for Carr, myself.

Agree, that has been my #1 target for a long time. 
 

I’d still trade for Watson though with a boat load of future conditional picks depending on his circumstances.

6 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

would we want Tannehill if available 

Yes

[SoCalSkins]

18 minutes ago, FlyBigBeard said:

Now that would be a great draft, but I don't think Leo will make it to 112 

If Willis sucks and odds are every QB in this draft will suck. It will be a horrible draft. Ron will be forced to stick with him for 2 years then he will be fired or quit and it’s square one again. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Make it happen G-men

 

 

[Zim489]

Just now, SoCalSkins said:

If Willis sucks and odds are every QB in this draft will suck. It will be a horrible draft. Ron will be forced to stick with him for 2 years then he will be fired or quit and it’s square one again. 

I mean whats the alternative? I dont even think theyll have a chance to swing on a target next year. I expect Stroud and Young to be gone within the first 3 picks. No one else at this point really jumps out to be first rounders. A couple names like Richardson and Levis have the potential to be but right now I wouldnt bank on it. Plus I think theres going to be a lot more teams looking to draft QBs earlier that arent this year. Giants Lions Texans. Possibly Atlanta Minny. Couple that with us likely being a better team with better QB play because lets be honest it cant be worse.I think were drafting mid to late teens. 

 

So we have to pretty much bank on 1-3 guys popping up over the season plus being in a spot where were bad enough to be able to move up. Most teams trading down dont like to move a whole bunch of spots. They a lot of times would take the one first rounder and draft 4-5 spot lower than 2 firsts and 12 spots later. 

 

And do we really want a guy that fears a future that doesnt exist to give up a RG3 level trade to a position that has a 66% bust rate? They have to make a choice this year. They cant wait

[Jericho]

23 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 I don't think Rivera kicked those tires too hard. Mariota was forced to take a $7 million dollar pay cut to avoid getting cut and just take $3.5 million total. If there was any interest in him, Mariota would have gotten cut and taken the money elsewhere to start. But he didn't. Apparently the proverbial ham sandwich was too high a price for Washington and Mariota.

23 hours ago, SmallDaddy said:

I can talk myself into any of the top QBs in the draft except the supposed "top QB on most boards" - Kenny P. My son went to Pitt so I have seen him play for a looong time (it seems like he was there for 10 years). He has always been meh until this past year when he lit it up. I have 3 main concerns. The first has been talked about to death (his tiny hands).  Some people dismiss it but his hand size is unprecedented. The bigger nfl ball could be a huge issue. He's never thrown an nfl ball for a full season. There was a really good article about 5 years ago that did a deep dive into how important hand size is to a QB. 

Second issues is his age. There was another good article a few years ago analyzing the pros and cons of drafting older and younger players. The concluison was always draft young. The older players don't typically work out. 

The third thing is similar to the second. Because he played so long in college he was essentially a man among boys. I would expect a grown man to dominate 18 and 19 year olds.  What happens when he is a man playing against other grown men?

 

I just don't see it working out for Mr. Pickett in the NFL as a franchise QB. 

 

This is a pretty good warning for three years down the line when people wonder why Pickett didn't work out. Sadly, most people will have forgotten about it. But it's a pretty darn good warning on why  Pickett has major issues and likely amounts to nothing more than a Blaine Gabbert type. Good guy, but then again so is Heinicke.

[ExoDus84]

56 minutes ago, allannis said:

Not 

 

Quality analysis here.

 

Take notes, fellas.

57 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Holy hell...that list of QB's at the bottom of that tweet...

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Wonder what it would cost for Carr. Anyone know what’s been rumored? I assume they’d bring back Mariota and possibly look to QB in the next draft. Wonder if they view a 2023 1st highly as a result. But also assume our 11th would be part of it. I wouldn’t lose sleep over 11 and a 2023 1st although it’s still a lot of capital to give up for someone you’ll need to open the checkbook for. 
 

I would still prefer to offer another 1 and get Watson given he’s younger but, beggars can’t be choosers.

 

Id love to send 42 and a 1st next year and use 11 to get a stud WR or trade back to recoup picks. Maybe get a 2nd, 3rd and future 1st to trade back, thus making the Carr trade essentially 1+1+ 2 for 2+3+1 and Carr. Probably a pipe dream though. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Zim489 said:

This has nothing to do with Dan. I have no idea where you get this idea from that Im a backer of his. Cant stand him and would trade 10 years of first rounders to get rid of that moron.

 

I would want Dan replacing Ron with a Singular GM from a winning organization. If that silver spooned ass hat up in NY do just that its not crazy to think Dan could do that. 

 

Ron has more power than any single person under Dans tenure. If you think that Ron couldnt have done anything he wanted than we just disagree at a fundamental level to that point. Its also not like a lot would have been done to lose 1-2 more games the completely changes the direction of the franchise from the 2020 season stand point. 

So many moves could have been made before Ron stepped foot onto the practice facility. Thats more of what im talking about. Tanking isnt throwing games on sunday. Its done in the planning process of gutting the roster of old expensive players or players not expected to be around long term. Its about playing the young players when youre 2-7

 

Didn't say you are a Dan guy.  What I am saying is whether you see it or not, IMO your points are laden by beliefs that give more faith in Dan than most people here.  That's hard to miss.  Whether you see it or not, it's baked in your points.  I do believe you don't like Dan and its likely not your attention to take blame off of him -- but you do it anyway at least from my point of view  in the context of some of your hits on Ron.   

 

I gather you want Ron to take the full hit on your grenade so to speak and you don't want to dilute that.  But in the consequence of doing that IMO comes off like really taking Dan off the hook.  There is 30 years of dysfunction at the QB spot, 22 years of which Dan has been the lead clown.  In all of that time, the most angst I've heard from one of our coaches that they've had enough of this crap at the QB spot  -- is ironically the target of your wrath.   And aside from 2012, the biggest swing for a top QB was arguably last year. 

 

A.  You debated me already about whether Dan can improve upon Ron.  You think he can.   Many here including myself disagreed.  Whether you see it this way or not, in my book that gives some faith in Dan.  He will hire the right person.  He won't co-opt them like he did with Vinny and Bruce.  And the NFL wont see Dan and this organization any differently than it did in years past -- in other words we can attract top hires. 

 

B.  You are saying that Ron could do whatever he wanted.  You make that point passionately multiple times.  That suggests that you believe it when people come here and the narrative is Dan will lay off even though with EVERY regime the stories come out later that its far from true.  

 

C.  Yep I understand how to tank.  To gut the roster you need Dan's approval.  If you think Dan would be OK with it than either you think Dan has changed or you haven't been paying that close attention to his tenure.    It's practically a cliche that losing is unacceptable for ANY reason.  Bruce used to flat out imply it in a heavy handed way when asked in interviews about whether a rebuild is on table.  Heck one of the stories about why they didn't want to trade Kirk was they'd rather have one more year of Kirk and win more games that coming season even if he was gone the season after. 

 

I used to for example relentlessly attack Bruce Allen but I made sure to include Dan's culpability when I could.  You don't even assign co-blame to Dan with some of this stuff you put it all on Ron.  Heck I am not one of these people here who say go get Deshaun Watson but if I were I know the reason why it would be tough and it has nothing to do with Ron and everything to do with the reputation of this franchise that Dan made happen.

 

A main reason why this organization has some appeal in spite of the crap show headed by Dan is Ron according to some agents in an article I posted before.  

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

42 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

If Willis sucks and odds are every QB in this draft will suck. It will be a horrible draft. Ron will be forced to stick with him for 2 years then he will be fired or quit and it’s square one again. 

Yes. Oh and by the way, this is exactly what’s going to happen.

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

 I don't think Rivera kicked those tires too hard. Mariota was forced to take a $7 million dollar pay cut to avoid getting cut and just take $3.5 million total. If there was any interest in him, Mariota would have gotten cut and taken the money elsewhere to start. But he didn't. Apparently the proverbial ham sandwich was too high a price for Washington and Mariota.

 

 

They coud have had Trubisky last year for nothing.   Yet some say they are hot to trot for him now.   From what I can tell as they thought about it some more they decided Fitz was better than the both of them. 

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

On the flip side, the simulation that I just ran is pretty juicy ..

11: Malik Willis, QB Liberty

42: Christian Watson, WR NDSU

73: Jaylen Wydermeyer, TE Texas A&M

112: Leo Chenal, LB Wisconsin

 

Of course, this is addressing current needs, without knowing who we get in FA. But I'd kill for that draft today if you told me we could get Marcus Williams at FS, along with Mariota/Winston/Trubisky at QB and maybe a Devondra Campbell at MLB

 

we don't need a TE, and I don't know I believe we need a WR

[skinny21]

12 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

we don't need a TE, and I don't know I believe we need a WR

Maybe not “need”, but with Thomas recovering, RSJ leaving (presumably), Dyami uncertain, Carter, Humphries and Sims FA… we could use both IMO.  Could stand to have another te developing 
We do (hopefully) get a healthy Samuel, but extra weapons can only help, especially a new qb.  Same with adding a back.  Particularly important as the league is offensive driven and the team needs some added excitement in terms of rebranding.  
With that said, we don’t have much of anything at mlb, fs and slot corner.  I’d rather address the latter two in FA though (or all 3), and use an early pick at mlb.