The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[illone]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

She's a babe and total wife material but she has useless "analysis" here like most mediots.

 

It’s just her “take” and probably influenced by other actors. 
 

try not to take it so seriously. (Mod edit)
 

she also said she loves what the commanders have done this year w coaching and free agency.  Is she wrong there too?

1 hour ago, ntotoro said:

 

 

Please draft him, Chicago

 

quoted for emphasis. 😎

[Ghost of]

4 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Daniels number higher than Maye? But how could this be?

I don't remember the number of dropbacks off hand. That would be useful. Like I know mccarthy has fewer dropbacks so proportionately he may have faced this situation slightly more than Maye or Daniels. 

 

I love people keep ignoring the middle of the field stats with Daniels.

[redskinss]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

God I hate analysis like this.

 

Nobody gives a F who the best college player is. Its about who projects to be the best in the NFL.

 

This is why teams draft busts and the media is full of idiots.

 

Yeah it's weird how caleb is universally considered the number one pick by virtually everybody despite a drop in statistical production his final year but when jaydens superior numbers are brought up it vaults him above maye but not williams. 

 

If you're gonna project based of tape then do that and if you're gonna project based off statistics then do that but don't waffle. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

God I hate analysis like this.

 

Nobody gives a F who the best college player is. Its about who projects to be the best in the NFL.

 

This is why teams draft busts and the media is full of idiots.

 

 

 

Most of the tweets relating to this team, I'll post for entertainment value.  If some of them pisses people off, that's not my intention but I know some posts will, law of averages. 

 

Whether some like it or not at this point I think Daniels and Maye are the hottest topics relating to this team.

 

Starting next Friday, it will only be one QB left standing thankfully. 

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

I love people keep ignoring the middle of the field stats with Daniels.

 

Here's some middle of field stats on Daniels:

 

 

 

 

And Maye:

 

 

Edited April 17 by Dah-Dee

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, redskinss said:

 

Yeah it's weird how caleb is universally considered the number one pick by virtually everybody despite a drop in statistical production his final year but when jaydens superior numbers are brought up it vaults him above maye but not williams. 

 

If you're gonna project based of tape then do that and if you're gonna project based off statistics then do that but don't waffle. 

 

I've listened to too many of the pro Maye and pro Daniels takes from the media-leaks, etc.

 

It's not typically simplistic as to look at the stats.  Adams did mostly that but even in her case she talked about him as a person.

 

With Maye its mostly -- traits, traits, arm talent, he's only 21

 

With Daniels its mostly -- accuracy-mechanics-speed

[mistertim]

5 hours ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

I could get way more behind maye if I knew for sure he didn’t need a whole year, or even two to sit and learn. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t. We don’t know the FO’s plan with him if he’s the pick. But I can’t get behind watching Mariota play the whole season as Maye sits, that would be painful to witness. I’m sure Quinn wants someone who’s ready to go day one without a doubt as he doesn’t have the luxury of throwing away the next 1-2 years 

 

There's really no reason that Maye would have to sit and Daniels wouldn't. They both have things going for them and against them.

 

Maye:

 

Pros for starting soon - Has shown a full repertoire of NFL level throws in his tape. Tight window 2nd level throws over the middle, anticipation throws. All throws that are essential to be able to make in the NFL to be successful. Size and arm talent.

 

Cons for starting soon - footwork gets sloppy, especially on shorter drops, less starting experience, can play too much hero ball and make bad decisions (though a fair amount of that may have to do with a poor supporting cast).

 

 

Daniels:

 

Pros for starting soon - Has a lot of starting experience. Very accurate on short drops and deep on the boundaries. Nice bucket throws. Legs could help him get out of trouble early. Electric runner. Good footwork/mechanics. Seems to go through progressions pretty well.

 

Cons for starting soon - Really bad P2S ratio, really low percentage of times when he throws after being pressured which could lead to lots more bad hits...often drops his eyes almost immediately when pressured (seems to panic a bit when pressured). Very few tight window 2nd level throws down the middle, likewise with anticipation throws before his WR breaks.

 

 

So this whole narrative of "Maye needs to sit a year" is simply not necessarily true. Yes, he has to clean up his footwork and some of his decision making, but that's true of basically every college QB coming into the NFL and it's really overblown. And it seems to be me that, at the same time, the red flags for Daniels are sometimes just ignored.

 

Edited April 17 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

So this whole narrative of "Maye needs to sit a year" is simply not necessarily true. Yes, he has to clean up his footwork and some of his decision making, but that's true of basically every college QB coming into the NFL and it's really overblown. And it seems to be me that, at the same time, the red flags for Daniels are sometimes just ignored.

 

 

Maye can make all the throws now.  It's annoying to watch the narratives about how the dude has to sit.

 

The issue with him is consistency and i don't get how people think the consistency is going to come by sitting on the bench, let him play it out.   Consistency is about repetition.  He will only be 22 next season.  Even if he's not fully ready IMO who cares.

 

And look indeed Daniels is a crazy good runner and he could use that as a crutch early in his career.  But people are sleeping on the same point on Maye.  Maye isn't a homerun hitter as a runner like Daniels but he's a really good runner nonetheless.

Edited April 17 by Skinsinparadise

[Ghost of]

6 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Here's some middle of field stats on Daniels:

 

And Maye:

 

Thanks. I'm referring to percentages in intermediate middle mentioned in that one article and measures of aggressiveness. But looking at the raw numbers that looks a lot better. Do you remember the source for these? I'm going to sue the major stats publications for dereliction of duty,  defamation... and murder!

[Dah-Dee]

Just now, Ghost of said:

Thanks. I'm referring to percentages in intermediate middle mentioned in that one article and measures of aggressiveness. But looking at the raw numbers that looks a lot better. Do you remember the source for these? I'm going to sue the major stats publications for dereliction of duty,  defamation... and murder!

 

I think those charts were from PFF but I could be wrong, I stole them from a post a while back in this thread.

[Hooper]

19 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Daniels number higher than Maye? But how could this be?

 

How bout the NFL Version? More evidence that Eric B was absolutely terrible!

 

 

[SoCalSkins]

Daniel Jeramiah thinks the reason for all them to be in the building at the same time is to accommodate Josh Harris from a scheduling standpoint. He also still thinks it’s Maye based on knowing Peters but says most in the NFL think it’s Daniels but no one knows 

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

There's really no reason that Maye would have to sit and Daniels wouldn't. They both have things going for them and against them.

 

Maye:

 

Pros for starting soon - Has shown a full repertoire of NFL level throws in his tape. Tight window 2nd level throws over the middle, anticipation throws. All throws that are essential to be able to make in the NFL to be successful. Size and arm talent.

 

Cons for starting soon - footwork gets sloppy, especially on shorter drops, less starting experience, can play too much hero ball and make bad decisions (though a fair amount of that may have to do with a poor supporting cast).

 

 

Daniels:

 

Pros for starting soon - Has a lot of starting experience. Very accurate on short drops and deep on the boundaries. Nice bucket throws. Legs could help him get out of trouble early. Electric runner. Good footwork/mechanics. Seems to go through progressions pretty well.

 

Cons for starting soon - Really bad P2S ratio, really low percentage of times when he throws after being pressured which could lead to lots more bad hits...often drops his eyes almost immediately when pressured (seems to panic a bit when pressured). Very few tight window 2nd level throws down the middle, likewise with anticipation throws before his WR breaks.

 

 

So this whole narrative of "Maye needs to sit a year" is simply not necessarily true. Yes, he has to clean up his footwork and some of his decision making, but that's true of basically every college QB coming into the NFL and it's really overblown. And it seems to be me that, at the same time, the red flags for Daniels are sometimes just ignored.

 

The reason for Maye to sit is his mechanics. You fix bad footwork and inconsistent throw mechanics with drills and repetition. That's a lot harder to do if you're spending 60 hours a week devouring the game plan and tape of the opponent. 

 

And a player is likely to lapse back into those bad mechanics if they haven't much time to change them and they're trying to win a game. You need time to unlearn what you were doing wrong and have the new process become second nature. 

 

Daniels' issues are the types that either are unlikely to be corrected or can be worked on with experience. 

 

I'm as much Maye over Daniels as anyone but I'd want Maye sitting and working on his footwork for at least half a season. The only reason I'd sit Daniels (apart from just him looking bad) is if I thought the OLine needed work or it'd get any QB killed and so I'd sit him to protect him. 

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

The reason for Maye to sit is his mechanics. You fix bad footwork and inconsistent throw mechanics with drills and repetition. That's a lot harder to do if you're spending 60 hours a week devouring the game plan and tape of the opponent. 

 

And a player is likely to lapse back into those bad mechanics if they haven't much time to change them and they're trying to win a game. You need time to unlearn what you were doing wrong and have the new process become second nature. 

 

Daniels' issues are the types that either are unlikely to be corrected or can be worked on with experience. 

 

I'm as much Maye over Daniels as anyone but I'd want Maye sitting and working on his footwork for at least half a season. The only reason I'd sit Daniels (apart from just him looking bad) is if I thought the OLine needed work or it'd get any QB killed and so I'd sit him to protect him. 

 

Again, most college QBs, especially young ones vs 5 year starters, are going to have some footwork and mechanical things to clean up (that's especially true when he had one OC in 2022 coaching him to use one type of footwork and a different OC in 2023 coaching him to use different footwork). And it's not like his footwork is godawful. It's mostly inconsistently on shorter drops. I don't necessarily see it as a reason to make him sit half the year unless he gets to camp and he looks dreadful.

 

And as far as Daniels, what about all of the red flags? You seem to basically be hand-waving them away when they're actually very concerning. NFL QBs practically make their living deep down the middle into tight windows. And anticipation throws before WRs make their breaks are often the difference between a completion and an interception in the NFL.

 

If he continues his historically low amount of times he throws after being pressured I fear he's going to get absolutely demolished when he takes more hits than necessary.

Edited April 17 by mistertim

[88Comrade2000]

2 hours ago, redskinss said:

Seriously though, did quinn and peters really pick up jayden personally and the others took an uber?

 

If that's confirmed that's either the biggest bluff/smokescreen in the history of the draft or its a forgone conclusion we're drafting daniels. 

 

I can't figure for the life of me why you'd do that and not realize it would be controversial to say the least, not to mention it alienates the rest of the guys you brought in.

Yeah, it would be the biggest smokescreen ever and it might only work once. All this extra attention to Daniels and we draft Maye.  Future prospects might be a little Leary in the future of our intentions.

[wit33]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

If he continues his historically low amount of times he throws after being pressured I fear he's going to get absolutely demolished when he takes more hits than necessary.

 

You've really been leaning on that stat for the past month or so, huh? It must be frustrating to see Maye performing just as poorly! Just imagine the comparisons you could've made if Maye had been 7-8 percent better. It would've given you some real ammunition.

 

Daniel's day one offers a genuine chance to excel in the run and play-action game while projecting to protect the football at an elite level. It all adds up to a playoff ceiling in year one.

 

Perhaps Maye doesn't need as much time on the bench to refine his mechanics and footwork like Mahomes, Rodgers, and Love did. Luckily, I'm all for backyard football, and I believe Maye is solid as a runner, although not quite at Howell's level, but still good. I’m down for a YOLO season while he learns, I can see him having the guts to endure a 20 plus INT season— I can get behind a gunslinger. 

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Yeah, it would be the biggest smokescreen ever and it might only work once. All this extra attention to Daniels and we draft Maye.  Future prospects might be a little Leary in the future of our intentions.

 

It's also ultimately unnecessary. Caleb is going #1 and we get whomever we want at 2. Elaborate smokescreens would make more sense for New England trying to bluff whom they prefer. But we have no need to play these games if our intention is to sit at #2 and draft the guy we like best.

[WashingtonRedWolves]

50 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Here's some middle of field stats on Daniels:

 

 

 

 

And Maye:

 

 

Daniels middle of field stats look fine? what am I missing that people are harping on, he doesn’t utilize it enough? Genuinely curious

Edited April 17 by WashingtonRedWolves

[CapsSkins]

Keim agreed that Daniels' stature is his biggest issue but likened it to Kirk Cousins and said Kirk protects himself effectively, so that's the question with Jayden.

 

I looked up combine height/weights and Kirk's was 6' 3", 214 compared to Jayden's 6' 4", 210. Not that different.

 

Between that comp and Cooley's hand-waving around the issue it seems like they might really feel they can bulk him up to 215-220 and coach him to be more careful and mitigate that issue. 

[Ghost of]

6 minutes ago, WashingtonRedWolves said:

Daniels middle of field stats look fine? what am I missing that people are harping on, he doesn’t utilize it enough? Genuinely curious

I'm not doing math with a headache but it's supposed to be percentages of passes but I don't know if there are conflicting numbers or criteria.

[mistertim]

17 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

You've really been leaning on that stat for the past month or so, huh? It must be frustrating to see Maye performing just as poorly! Just imagine the comparisons you could've made if Maye had been 7-8 percent better. It would've given you some real ammunition.

 

Daniel's day one offers a genuine chance to excel in the run and play-action game while projecting to protect the football at an elite level. It all adds up to a playoff ceiling in year one.

 

Perhaps Maye doesn't need as much time on the bench to refine his mechanics and footwork like Mahomes, Rodgers, and Love did. Luckily, I'm all for backyard football, and I believe Maye is solid as a runner, although not quite at Howell's level, but still good. I’m down for a YOLO season while he learns, I can see him having the guts to endure a 20 plus INT season— I can get behind a gunslinger. 

 

So Maye, like Daniels, ranked 193 out of 196 qualifying QBs since 2018 in how often he threw after being pressured and breaking the pocket? Daniels just not a creative passer and looks to run way to fast.

 

I still find it interesting how often these really bad analytics (and sticky ones at that from college to NFL) are just completely hand waved away from some posters here who love Daniels.

 

And not sure you're coming up with this whole "Daniels day 1 offers a genuine blah blah". If he doesn't stop pulling his eyes down as soon as he senses pressure, and with his frame, I see little chance that he'll last the season without being injured, let alone go on a playoff run.

Edited April 17 by mistertim

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Keim agreed that Daniels' stature is his biggest issue but likened it to Kirk Cousins and said Kirk protects himself effectively, so that's the question with Jayden.

 

I looked up combine height/weights and Kirk's was 6' 3", 214 compared to Jayden's 6' 4", 210. Not that different.

 

Between that comp and Cooley's hand-waving around the issue it seems like they might really feel they can bulk him up to 215-220 and coach him to be more careful and mitigate that issue. 

 

Not sure Kirk has any relevance. He's a pure pocket passer and basically the opposite of Daniels. If Kirk immediately pulled his eyes down and immediately ran as much as Daniels when he's pressured, I have a feeling he'd have far more injuries than he does now.

 

And come on. You've seen the frame on Daniels. Super thin frame, tiny shoulders, thin hips. He's going to be 24 this year. He's probably filled out about as much as he's going to. And yeah I still think his playing weight is closer to 200, so the idea that he's going to put on 20lbs of muscle is silly IMO. That just doesn't really happen, especially with someone with as thing a frame as him. 

Edited April 17 by mistertim

[CapsSkins]

15 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Not sure Kirk has any relevance. He's a pure pocket passer and basically the opposite of Daniels. If Kirk immediately pulled his eyes down and immediately ran as much as Daniels when he's pressured, I have a feeling he'd have far more injuries than he does now.

 

And come on. You've seen the frame on Daniels. Super thin frame, tiny shoulders, thin hips. He's going to be 24 this year. He's probably filled out about as much as he's going to. And yeah I still think his playing weight is closer to 200, so the idea that he's going to put on 20lbs of muscle is silly IMO. That just doesn't really happen, especially with someone with as thing a frame as him. 

 

I agree - I think Daniels is a rail-thin, toothpick who is destined to get injured. He literally looks like a taller version of me build-wise, aka not NFL material. But Cooley isn't bothered and Keim is sort of brushing it off, too. It's not like they aren't seeing the same guy I am. Maybe I've been overly concerned? Idk... it's so hard to convince myself that this isn't a terrible decision for that reason but the smoke really suggests he's going to be the pick. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

45 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Again, most college QBs, especially young ones vs 5 year starters, are going to have some footwork and mechanical things to clean up (that's especially true when he had one OC in 2022 coaching him to use one type of footwork and a different OC in 2023 coaching him to use different footwork). And it's not like his footwork is godawful. It's mostly inconsistently on shorter drops. I don't necessarily see it as a reason to make him sit half the year unless he gets to camp and he looks dreadful.

 

And as far as Daniels, what about all of the red flags? You seem to basically be hand-waving them away when they're actually very concerning. NFL QBs practically make their living deep down the middle into tight windows. And anticipation throws before WRs make their breaks are often the difference between a completion and an interception in the NFL.

 

If he continues his historically low amount of times he throws after being pressured I fear he's going to get absolutely demolished when he takes more hits than necessary.

Mayes mechanics are enough of an issue that it caused his accuracy to be considered a weakness. Which is the reason he isn’t the slam dunk #2 pick.

 

if I’m investing in him I’d want to commit to fixing that issue and make him the QB he can be for the future rather than throwing him out there and hoping he could fix stuff in his spare time.

 

Daniels doesn’t need to sit to learn how to throw the ball over the middle. He needs to play to get better at that.