The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[zCommander]

19 minutes ago, Dah-Dee said:

 

Fixed it for you 😋

 

If you are going to do the whole fix it bit then I recommend that you highlight the word(s) you fixed. There is no why in hell I am going to go back and re-read what mistertim said and then figure out what you changed!

 

[Dah-Dee]

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

If you are going to do the whole fix it bit then I recommend that you highlight the word(s) you fixed. There is no why in hell I am going to go back and re-read what mistertim said and then figure out what you changed!

 

 

The mildly-funny-at-best parts were between the asterisks in the quoted excerpt. 

 

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

If you are going to do the whole fix it bit then I recommend that you highlight the word(s) you fixed. There is no why in hell I am going to go back and re-read what mistertim said and then figure out what you changed!

 

 

Nor do I blame you. I wouldn't want to read my nonsense, either.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Bram has lost his damn mind.  
 

He is so in love with Fields he thinks the reason the Bears haven’t traded Fields is because the Bears aren’t sure Caleb will show up when they pick him. 
 

So he’s twisted himself entirely into a pretzel trying to justify why Firlds hasn’t gotten any support. 
 

His QB opinions have gone down the drain.  Fields and Heinicke.  Hes a huge fan of both.  

[Est.1974]

I think the Bears will be ‘worried’ about Williams pulling an Eli on them.

[CommanderInTheRye]

This is a REAL good one folks.

 

Kurt Warner’s latest release dives deep into the all 22 vid of NC vs Duke and gives a great simplified analysis (even I can understand it lol) of Drake Maye’s play in that game.

 

It’s objective and covers both the highs and lows, areas of strength and opportunities for improvement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’ve said before that I’m truly on the fence between Maye and Daniels. One thing I liked about this video is that I feel even more comfortable that if we choose Maye we will be fine, in the long run.

 

 

Edited March 13 by CommanderInTheRye

[RandyHolt]

Call me crazy but I think its wrong to think that:

• Mariota is a better short or long term solution over Howell. That he is better insurance if Maye/Daniels flops. That a career journeyman who just couldn't beat out Ridder or Heineke is best to teach our Ferrari how to drive in the fast lane.
• Only QBs that have failed to become starters bouncing around from team to team can help mentor young QBs. I will concede those guys are best to teach how to deal with failure.
• Fields is a better option for teams still needing a QB, over Howell (cap hit and cost to acquire factored in, or maybe even not)
• Howell should be jettisoned for whatever we can get for him. He has no value to us even if the new guy busts.
• That the book is written on Howell and final chapter says he is a failure.
• Teams can only ever have one young QB developing in a system. You have to have an old played out vet QB on every team. Because its always been that way!

Howell made a **** ton of difficult throws when defenses knew he was going to throw. Had virtually NO run game. He looked pretty damn good the first half of the year and you KNOW it. Proved durable despite being awkward af trying to finish runs and taking lots of sacks #thik. Got his bell rung proper game 1 quarter 1 and won the game. Can throw on the run very well and from the pocket fairly well. Got little support from his WR/TE room who all seemed to regress (Samuel aside). Got little support from his OL that as usual consistently could not pickup blitzes stunts and twists - I don't give a rats ass that PFF said our OL was average - they failed the confusing front/blitz pickup eye test. Had the leagues worst defense to practice against. And I contend, had the leagues WORST coaching staff, and I don't think it's close. He seems good in the locker room says all the right things and is not a drama queen attention whore money grubbing primadonna aspiring social media influencer.

 

Edited March 13 by RandyHolt

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Bram has lost his damn mind.  
 

He is so in love with Fields he thinks the reason the Bears haven’t traded Fields is because the Bears aren’t sure Caleb will show up when they pick him. 
 

So he’s twisted himself entirely into a pretzel trying to justify why Firlds hasn’t gotten any support. 
 

His QB opinions have gone down the drain.  Fields and Heinicke.  Hes a huge fan of both.  

 

While the national rap of Justin Fields seems to be...

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Call me crazy but I think its wrong to think that:

• Mariota is a better short or long term solution over Howell. That he is better insurance if Maye/Daniels flops. That a career journeyman who just couldn't beat out Ridder or Heineke is best to teach our Ferrari how to drive in the fast lane.
•  

 

 

Mariota was gone by the time Heinicke arrived there.  He's a better QB than Ridder.  But they wanted to try out their new car to see if it can ride and discovered it doesn't.  But they had to give it a spin of course.

 

I don't think the idea is Mariota > Howell.    Mariota is a backup.    He had his shot.  It wasn't awful. 90 career QB rating.  Almost 2:1 TD to INT ratio.  But not good enough to be a starter.  Fine as a backup.

 

As for Howell, if a team wants to give him a shot to compete for a job and this team can get decent draft capital in return then I gather the idea is why not get a young player, especially if its a 3rd rounder who can be part of the future of the team.

Edited March 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

14 hours ago, BleedBNG said:

Confused... does the Mariota signing mean Howell is the PS, trade later, let go? Just not getting it right now.

 

Keim opnined on it on his podcast last night.  He didn't say 100% but he does think there is a decent shot Howell is traded, could be before the draft, during the draft, during camp.  They might not trade him, its not 100% but he certainly came off like he'd bet its more likely he's traded than not but they would care about value and not just give him away.

 

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

I think the Bears will be ‘worried’ about Williams pulling an Eli on them.

 

He'd look like an all timer level douchebag-liar if he did it considered his multiple statements that he's be thrilled to play for the Bears including even praising their roster.

Edited March 13 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Call me crazy but I think its wrong to think that:

• Mariota is a better short or long term solution over Howell. That he is better insurance if Maye/Daniels flops. That a career journeyman who just couldn't beat out Ridder or Heineke is best to teach our Ferrari how to drive in the fast lane.
• Only QBs that have failed to become starters bouncing around from team to team can help mentor young QBs.
• Fields is a better option for teams still needing a QB, over Howell (cap hit and cost to acquire factored in, or maybe even not)
• Howell should be jettisoned for whatever we can get for him. He has no value to us even if the new guy busts.
• That the book is written on Howell and final chapter says he is a failure.
• Teams can only ever have one young QB developing in a system. You have to have an old played out QB on every team. Because its always been that way!

Howell made a **** ton of difficult throws when defenses knew he was going to throw. Had virtually NO run game. He looked pretty damn good the first half of the year and you KNOW it. Proved durable despite being awkward af trying to finish runs and taking lots of sacks #thik. Got his bell rung proper game 1 quarter 1 and won the game. Can throw on the run and from the pocket fairly well. Got little support from his WR/TE room who all seemed to regress (Samuel aside). Got little support from his OL that as usual consistently could not pickup blitzes stunts and twists - I don't give a rats ass that PFF said our OL was average - they failed the confusing front/blitz pickup eye test. Had the leagues worst defense to practice against. And I contend, had the leagues WORST coaching staff, and I don't think it's close. He seems good in the locker room says all the right things and is not a drama queen attention whore money grubbing primadonna influencer.

 

Generally, I agree with you.  I’d much prefer keep Howell and his $1M salary for the next two years, 

 

But it appears two things are at play:

 

A. It’s clear this regime is looking to rid itself of the Rivera stink.  Thus far, we’ve added about a dozen guys and haven’t re-signed one player that was on last years team.  They clearly want their guys to mold into where they see this team going.

 

B.  Mariota is no threat for controversy.  No matter how badly our new QB is playing, at most there will be whispers to go to Mariota.  As opposed to Howell, where I could easily see the locker room, fans, media, etc. calling for him, should the rookie play bad.  Additionally, if they sit the rookie for a bit to start the season- it’s safe to say there will be no tears for Mariota.

 

Ultimately, they haven’t said the words, but this is a total rebuild - top to bottom.  There will be pain before there is any glory.  They are in the process of scrubbing this place clean and furnishing the joint with their pieces.  But it will take a couple drafts before we see it come to fruition.  

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

I didn’t see the Mariota stuff as been any indicator. They were looking for a veteran who is scheme diverse and ok with being number 2. The only thing it indicates is Howell is more than likely gone.

 

The PFF podcast guys joked about this last night about the Daniels dots that some connected.  And they go if you watch Mariota in the pros and compare to Drake and Daniels -- if anything Mariota stylistically is much more similar to Maye than he is Daniels.

 

But am sticking with Keim on this which is this FO hasn't decided which way they are going at QB yet.

Edited March 13 by Skinsinparadise

[DJHJR86]

Except for that 4 games in 2020 where Kyle Allen was the starter (posted a 68.2 QBR), the top ten  quarterbacks this team have had since 2018, ranked by QBR:

 

1. Alex Smith - 2018 - 46.9

2. Taylor Heinicke - 2022 - 46.5

3. Taylor Heinicke - 2021 - 45.8

4. Case Keenum - 2019 - 45.6

5. Sam Howell - 2023 - 42.4

6. Colt McCoy - 2018 - 38.8

7. Carson Wentz - 2022 - 34.4

8. Alex Smith - 2020 - 28.2

9. Dwayne Haskins - 2019 - 28

10. Dwayne Haskins - 2020 - 24.8

 

We haven't had anyone above 50...which is very depressing.

[Est.1974]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He'd look like an all timer level douchebag-liar if he did it considered his multiple statements that he's be thrilled to play for the Bears including even praising their roster.

I don’t think he’s bothered about perception as long as he gets to play football in his #1 preferred destination.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I don’t think he’s bothered about perception as long as he gets to play football in his #1 preferred destination.

 

You don't think he would come off super dishonest by saying its nonsense that he doesn't want to play for the Bears and he'd love too -- and then he goes on draft day gotcha he was Bsing the whole time and he didn't mean a word of that?

 

Why bother with lying with that much force and elaboration?  If you didn't want to go to the Bears why not come off at a minimum lukewarm versus the I'd love to play there comments.

Edited March 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You don't think he would come off super dishonest by saying its nonsense that he doesn't want to play for the Bears and he'd love too -- and then he goes on draft day gotcha he was Bsing the whole time and he didn't mean a word of that?

 

Why bother with lying with that much force and elaboration?  If you didn't want to go to the Bears why not come off at a minimum lukewarm versus the I'd love to play there comments.

I think it’s a complex process leading up to this point. He’s likely still playing the game in public at this stage, but ultimately won’t care if he gets his preferred outcome.

 

That may be Chicago. However, I have a hard time believing anything other than he wants to play here, so he’ll push for that IMO.

[Going Commando]

13 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Both Maye and Daniels are outstanding runners. Daniels more so of course, but you absolutely can design RPO type stuff around Maye. 

 

Yep.  It was a huge part of UNC's offense, and it was almost their entire running game in '22.  Drake led UNC in rushing that year, and had 13 attempts per game.  He's a Josh Allen level runner at the position, and does stuff similar to Allen like jumping over people.  His running style is going to translate to the NFL and be sustainable.  It's a tertiary tool for him, and he is a big guy with athleticism.  A lot of the types of rushes that Jayden lived on will not translate to the NFL.  All of those big middle field runs are going to be so much riskier for him.  They will get him hurt and it won't take long.  He's also going to have to actually stay behind the line of scrimmage and throw the ball when he doesn't like the defensive look.  He's not going to be able to run to avoid NFL throwing windows like he did at LSU.

[Skinsinparadise]

Bears reporter yesterday, Chicago Tribune

 

Now, let’s get back to the Bears situation. Quarterback is a serious need and they will do due diligence on all of the prospects. It’s my opinion that process begins with Williams, who a year ago was the presumptive No. 1 pick in the 2024 draft. The Bears need to get a clear picture of Williams as a player, teammate and person, just as they need to do with North Carolina’s Drake Maye, LSU’s Jayden Daniels and Michigan’s J.J. McCarthy.

That process is just beginning and will take a couple of months to finalize. The Bears are much further along evaluating all of the prospects as players.

 

They’re only starting to pull back the layers to find out what makes these guys tick.

When the Bears complete the evaluation process and set their board, if Williams is the top quarterback, I don’t see how they consider a trade with the Commanders. How could a team that has been seeking a franchise quarterback for decades pass on the chance to draft its top-rated quarterback? They have the top pick, there’s no way of telling where they will be drafting next year — or what next year’s quarterback class will look like — and it’s counterintuitive to think there’s a better route.

 

The only scenario in which I could see a slight possibility the Bears would consider a trade is if they had very similar grades on their top two quarterbacks — a virtual coin flip. In that instance, perhaps they could entertain a conversation with the Commanders. But the chances of this happening seem remote. For a franchise that has been dogged for so long by inadequate quarterback play to get cute and not simply turn in a card with their top-ranked quarterback’s name on it would border on football malpractice.

 

...I called a veteran front-office man who worked with Peters to get his take on the idea of the Commanders pushing in all their chips to draft Williams.

 

 

...“I don’t know that hiring Kingsbury is a strong indicator, or any indicator, of what direction they will go. Kliff has shown competence calling plays and he’s developed quarterbacks and there’s how many OC spots open this year? And there have not been enough qualified and experienced candidates to go around. I don’t think hiring Kingsbury is a strong indicator that they’re going to trade up to draft Caleb. There’s no way that they’ve made up their mind yet, I can promise you that. No one has had that discussion. (New Commanders coach) Dan Quinn has never watched Caleb Williams. I can almost guarantee that.

 

“You just need to slow everyone down on this (stuff). Adam Peters has never talked to Caleb Williams. Neither has Ryan Poles for that matter. Peters has been with a team that has given up significant assets for a quarterback and it didn’t work out. So he’s going to go through extreme due diligence so that if he ever considers making that move again, it’s the right move to make. It’s not, ‘I saw the dude make splashy plays on TV, I better give up the farm to go get him.’ There’s a lot of work to do for everyone. People need to stop trying to connect all the dots because most of those dots haven’t even been put on paper yet.”

 

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/02/07/chicago-bears-mailbag-nfl-draft/

Edited March 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I think it’s a complex process leading up to this point. He’s likely still playing the game in public at this stage, but ultimately won’t care if he gets his preferred outcome.

 

That may be Chicago. However, I have a hard time believing anything other than he wants to play here, so he’ll push for that IMO.

 

OK  if anyone else who covers this team was thinking the same, I'd think there is a shot.  But crickets as far as I can tell with no one in recent weks thinking the outcome is them trading up.  

 

The Bears are a better team than this team.  I know he's from the DMV but don't know why he'd think its this team or bust.  When he was asked if I recall two years ago what was his dream team to play for he said the Miami Dolphins.  There was another leak (not sure if true or not from his camp supposedly), we talked about it on the draft thread a year ago, when there was 5 teams that were leaked he'd prefer to go to.  I recall the Giants were one of those teams.  Don't recall the others but i do recall this team wasn't one of them.

 

Among turn of events in the NFL, it would be one of the most shocking events I can think of.  Eli was shocking at the time but at least there was rumbilings that it might happen.  Caleb has gone out of his way to say its not happening with him.

 

I think the only super long shot that has a sliver of hope is the Bears in their evaluation decide Caleb isn't the best QB in this draft.  Because Calbe doesn't strike me a bad dude.  And he would come off IMO as a bad dude to lie that blatantly. 

Edited March 13 by Skinsinparadise

[Rolo Tomasie]

I never understood why Eli gave the cold shoulder to San Diego. I know they didn't have a good recent history of developing quarterbacks at that point and the owner at that time I think was spanos, who was known to be kind of cheap. But it's a dream city weather-wise and not a huge high pressure market. NFL teams change quickly. It seemed to work out fine as a destination franchise for Rivers and later Brees and Herbert. 

[Command The 414]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

Call me crazy but I think its wrong to think that:

• Mariota is a better short or long term solution over Howell. That he is better insurance if Maye/Daniels flops. That a career journeyman who just couldn't beat out Ridder or Heineke is best to teach our Ferrari how to drive in the fast lane.
• Only QBs that have failed to become starters bouncing around from team to team can help mentor young QBs. I will concede those guys are best to teach how to deal with failure.
• Fields is a better option for teams still needing a QB, over Howell (cap hit and cost to acquire factored in, or maybe even not)
• Howell should be jettisoned for whatever we can get for him. He has no value to us even if the new guy busts.
• That the book is written on Howell and final chapter says he is a failure.
• Teams can only ever have one young QB developing in a system. You have to have an old played out vet QB on every team. Because its always been that way!

Howell made a **** ton of difficult throws when defenses knew he was going to throw. Had virtually NO run game. He looked pretty damn good the first half of the year and you KNOW it. Proved durable despite being awkward af trying to finish runs and taking lots of sacks #thik. Got his bell rung proper game 1 quarter 1 and won the game. Can throw on the run very well and from the pocket fairly well. Got little support from his WR/TE room who all seemed to regress (Samuel aside). Got little support from his OL that as usual consistently could not pickup blitzes stunts and twists - I don't give a rats ass that PFF said our OL was average - they failed the confusing front/blitz pickup eye test. Had the leagues worst defense to practice against. And I contend, had the leagues WORST coaching staff, and I don't think it's close. He seems good in the locker room says all the right things and is not a drama queen attention whore money grubbing primadonna aspiring social media influencer.

 

Totally agree 👍… what amazes me more then anything is with all the failures from last season, poor poor OL play, the lack of absolutely NO Running game, and a OC who called the worse offensive play calling game in and game out and Howell still managed to put up some ok to decent numbers.

 

Yet people are done with him and some even say he’s done as a starter in the NFL but believe that any of these 3 top tier QB’s Williams, Maye, Daniels will be better, I would have loved to watch any of these 3 put into that fire, I can only imagine what would have been said about them.

 

I don’t wanna see Howell traded, and for those who think we can get a 3rd or 4th for him, why trade him then? Normally teams over value their players whereas the rest of the NFL under values them, but if other teams think Sam Howell is worth a 3rd or even 4th then obviously we are under valuing Howell and might not be seeing something that other teams do see in him.

 

someone stated this the other day on here, and I’m on paper and in agreement with whomever it was that said, I bet the numbers wouldn’t be much different if you switched Purdy and Howell, amazing what coaching and a really good offensive mind can do for a QB.

 

 

Edited March 13 by Command The 414

[mistertim]

So we've now circled back to "Caleb is going to pull and Eli. I say this based on literally nothing substantive whatsoever"? 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

While the national rap of Justin Fields seems to be...

 

 

 

So Brams point to this was “that's crazy.  He’s better than half the QBs in the NFl.  The Bears just won’t trade him because they haven’t gotten Caleb Williams to agree to come play for them.”

 

One thing that he did which was interesting is he played the Schefter report followed by the Rapshsheet report.  
 

Schefter was first up with the report the market has closed for Fields and their might not be a starting job for him. And the teams looking for him might be looking at him as a backup.  Bram went on to say this was clearly coming from agents or other teams trying to drive down the trade value so they could get him cheap to be a starter.

 

Then he played the Rapoport report which was “Bears are evaluating all options and haven’t made up their minds what they are doing yet.”  Which (and I agree) CLEARLY was fed from the Bears. 
 

He’s lost his mind. At least on this. 

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Mariota was gone by the time Heinicke arrived there.  He's a better QB than Ridder.  But they wanted to try out their new car to see if it can ride and discovered it doesn't.  But they had to give it a spin of course.

 

I don't think the idea is Mariota > Howell.    Mariota is a backup.    He had his shot.  It wasn't awful. 90 career QB rating.  Almost 2:1 TD to INT ratio.  But not good enough to be a starter.  Fine as a backup.

 

As for Howell, if a team wants to give him a shot to compete for a job and this team can get decent draft capital in return then I gather the idea is why not get a young player, especially if its a 3rd rounder who can be part of the future of the team.

While have not given up on Howell as a decent QB I think if you like one in the draft and can get him on a rookie contract, keeping Howell till you do is what I would want.

[88Comrade2000]

Sam is going to want to be traded. He’s now penciled in as third string. He’s going to want to go somewhere where he can be the backup with a legit chance at the starter job.

 

That’s not here.

 

Denver, Las Vegas, Minnesota are legit options and since Seattle new team isn’t sold on Geno; they could be an option.