The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randal 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Fromm battle for QB2 and so begins the Handsome Harem for Hartman

[KDawg]

Howell is going to play well. And I can't wait.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 hours ago, MartinC said:

 I THINK the plan is they have people they can move around. If say Cosmi gets hurt they can move Wylie to guard and play Lucas. If Paul doesnt play well they can slide Gates over and play Stromberg, or play Charles etc etc. They have options they can slide around - whether they are good options is another question entirely.

 

I think there will be at least one more vet signed either before camp or more likely late cuts.

 

 

I hope their is a vet signed before camp.  Maybe I subscribe too much to Keim and what he says, he's not always right but he almost always is.  As of now, the last he's said he's heard is they are scoping for a LB that gets released.  Nothing else hot on their agenda.  He did say though the Leno signing came out of the blue last time so you never know.

 

Yeah I assume the same as to the example you just gave.  But I strongly get the impression they don't want to move Gates if an injury happens -- I believe they want the steadiness of one veteran center working with Howell and to boot they think Gates is better at center.  But specifically if Cosmi is hurt, that permutation makes sense.

 

I doubt that's how it would go on the left side. I don't think they love Lucas at LT.  They like him at RT.   Apparently, Charles and not Paul will start at LG.  So I gather Paul is the swing guard.  And its a bit of an adjustment from what I read to have a dude like Whyie moves from the left side of the line to the right side of the line.  But who knows will see.  Any permutation though I can think of makes me borderline cringe.   The only one that can sell me some is if Stromberg wins the center position in camp and Paul kills it and beats Charles for the job.

 

106.7 was running a segment about the O line yesterday and it felt almost a rip off of the points made by some of us here.  It was prettty fun to listen to -- they were basically goofing on it especially in the context of putting their chips on Howell and giving him this unit to protect him.

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I hope there is a vet signed before camp.  Maybe I subscribe too much to Keim and what he says, he's not always right but he almost always is.  As of now, the last he's said he's heard is they are scoping for a LB that gets released.  Nothing else hot on their agenda.  He did say though the Leno signing came out of the blue last time so you never know.

 

Yeah I assume the same as to the example you just gave.  But I strongly get the impression they don't want to move Gates if an injury happens -- I believe they want the steadiness of one veteran center working with Howell and to boot they think Gates is better at center.  But specifically if Cosmi is hurt, that permutation makes sense.

 

Nut outside of that I don't think they love Lucas at LT.  They like him at RT.   Apparently, Charles and not Paul will start at LG.  So I gather Paul is thje swing guard.

 

106.7 was running a segment about the O line yesterday and it felt almost a rip off of the points made by some of us here.  It was prettty fun to listen to -- they were basically goofing on it especially in the context of putting their chips on Howell and giving him this unit to protect him.

 

One name we don't hear much of but like they were very happy signing him was Trent Scott. Felt like they looked at him as a possible replacement for Lucas at swing. Be interesting to see how much action he gets in comparison to Lucas in protecting Howells backside

Edited May 25, 2023 by DWinzit

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Howell is going to play well. And I can't wait.

 

 

 

If he does and I think its possible, his last year in college might ironically end up being the perfect prep for this season..  That is how to succeed when you are under seige playing under a crap O line.

 

26 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

One name we don't hear much of but like they were very happy signing him was Trent Scott. Felt like they looked at him as a possible replacement for Lucas at swing. Be interesting to see how much action he gets in comparison to Lucas in protecting Howells backside

 

He barely played last year, the year before he played some.  PFF scores were bad then.  But whatever, will see. 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If he does and I think its possible, his last year in college might ironically end up being the perfect prep for this season..  That is how to succeed when you are under seige playing under a crap O line.

 

He barely played last year, the year before he played some.  PFF scores were bad then.  But whatever, will see. 

 

 

Son of a ***** . Ya burst my bubble       

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Son of a ***** . Ya burst my bubble       

 

I don't really hear anything about him post signing.  So it feels like a camp body. - flier type.

 

I am hoping they sign a veteran -- Risner perhaps or someone who is released.  Otherwise this O line unit feels a bit nuts to me.   Not that another veteran signing fixes but I don't love the depth but more on point I think we have a starting unit that is begging to test the depth and probably in short order.  It would actually surprise me if their top backup guard starts for most of the season considering what are the odds that both Charles and Cosmi prove durable this season considering the past?

 

There isn't arguably a single above average player in this mix that are slated to be a starter.  Aside from maybe Cosmi.  Both guards have shown no history of durability.  The starting center is coming off major surgery not long ago.  Our tackles are fine but I'd guess this tackle tandem in the NFL gave up more sacks and pressures in the NFL last year -- combined.

 

lol, I wish someone else listened to Grant and Danny yesterday on this.  It made me feel like I among others here aren't taking crazy pills as to our angst about it.  They goofed on the unit pretty well. 

[KDawg]

We’ll see. I have my feelings on the OL but now it’s time to let it play out.

 

They are obviously higher on Saahdiq Charles and maybe Chris Paul than we were. 

 

I don’t have high hopes but going to let it play out a bit now.

[DWinzit]

Lordy I hope they bring in a vet OL that can either play LG or LT. I don't trust the plan at LG and worry some Leno's backup

 

Frankly, feel the same at LB and perhaps TE even before yesterdays injury which in the grand scheme, shouldn't be a biggie. My hopes are Turner steps up and becomes a great friend to Howell.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We’ll see. I have my feelings on the OL but now it’s time to let it play out.

 

They are obviously higher on Saahdiq Charles and maybe Chris Paul than we were. 

 

I don’t have high hopes but going to let it play out a bit now.

 

I am of course rooting for the unit to surprise.

 

Going purely on college tape, I'd like Paul to beat Charles for LG.  Paul IMO has potential -- Charles I feel like I've seen enough where I am not sold let alone he can't stay healthy.  And like you, I like Stromberg.  

 

Stromberg, Paul, Cosmi - they might have some rough patches but at least it would feel like they might be developing the interior of the line with some young potential.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Why are we worrying about Leno? Just because he's sitting out camp? He'll be a FA next year, he doesn't get injured. It's the one spot we don't have to worry about.

 

There's nothing we can do if he does go down anyway. Go sign Peters midseason or something.

[DWinzit]

29 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Why are we worrying about Leno? Just because he's sitting out camp? He'll be a FA next year, he doesn't get injured. It's the one spot we don't have to worry about.

 

There's nothing we can do if he does go down anyway. Go sign Peters midseason or something.

Too many seasons with too many injuries to the OL to not be concerned about the backups for all positions.

 

I imagine that is the reason RR is so concerned with this that every OL he brings in needs to be capable of playing multiple positions

[Koolblue13]

12 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Too many seasons with too many injuries to the OL to not be concerned about the backups for all positions.

 

I imagine that is the reason RR is so concerned with this that every OL he brings in needs to be capable of playing multiple positions

Leno doesn't have an injury history and we don't have a back up that's worth much. There's 4 other positions on the line that are a major concern. 

 

I think LT we can just feel fine about.

[wit33]

22 hours ago, MartinC said:

 I THINK the plan is they have people they can move around. If say Cosmi gets hurt they can move Wylie to guard and play Lucas. If Paul doesnt play well they can slide Gates over and play Stromberg, or play Charles etc etc. They have options they can slide around - whether they are good options is another question entirely.

 

I think there will be at least one more vet signed either before camp or more likely late cuts.

 

 

Offensive linemen get banged up so often, it's like they have a target on their backs! That's why you need a whole bunch of them. It's all about the power in numbers. 
 

This season, our offense is gonna have a governor on it. We got Howell, a young QB, and Brissett, who's like a budget version of Alex Smith. So, if our offense has a ceiling, why break the bank for the O-line? It's all about playing smart and put money elsewhere unless you hit on an elite talent.

But hey, if we've got the Washington QB projected to sling nearly 5,000 yards and drop back 40-60 times a game, then maybe it's time to think about splurging on a left tackle. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by wit33

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Leno doesn't have an injury history and we don't have a back up that's worth much. There's 4 other positions on the line that are a major concern. 

 

I think LT we can just feel fine about.

The fact Leno has been able to stay healthy has been and hopefully will continue to be great!

 

My point is we do no ignore his backup to cover the QB's blindspot as a result.

 

Lucas has been a good cap friendly swing. An earlier post referenced the team not liking his play at LT. If that is the case, we should have a more capable backup at LT.  It wouldn't be a good look if we had no answer and Leno did go down.

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

Offensive linemen get banged up so often, it's like they have a target on their backs! That's why you need a whole bunch of them. It's all about the power in numbers. 
 

This season, our offense is gonna have a governor on it. We got Howell, a young QB, and Brissett, who's like a budget version of Alex Smith. So, if our offense has a ceiling, why break the bank for the O-line? It's all about playing smart and put money elsewhere unless you hit on an elite talent.

But hey, if we've got the Washington QB projected to sling nearly 5,000 yards and drop back 40-60 times a game, then maybe it's time to think about splurging on a left tackle. 

I get what you are saying, but I don’t fully agree. I agree injuries will happen on the O’Line and you need depth. But i would not extend that to an argument to say you should not invest significant cap dollars in a pro bowl quality OT. I’d prefer to use a high draft pick and benefit form a rookie contract, but I would be comfortable extending that player if he shows he is that stud OT type player.

 

If you have a stud at one tackle it makes everything else on the line easier. You can slide protections away from that player and double elsewhere to protect a weak link. You make it much harder for the D to attack your protection schemes because you have more flexibility in designing protection packages (and run block schemes) knowing you can trust on OT on an island. 
 

But it’s football, if that stud gets hurt it’s a ‘**** happens’ thing and you have to adjust.

38 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

The fact Leno has been able to stay healthy has been and hopefully will continue to be great!

 

My point is we do no ignore his backup to cover the QB's blindspot as a result.

 

Lucas has been a good cap friendly swing. An earlier post referenced the team not liking his play at LT. If that is the case, we should have a more capable backup at LT.  It wouldn't be a good look if we had no answer and Leno did go down.

I agree with you on OT depth. It’s sketchy beyond Lucas who is serviceable. I feel better about our ability to handle an injury inside, but am concerned about the starters (at LG at least). At tackle I feel the starters are decent but depth is a real issue.

[wit33]

38 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I get what you are saying, but I don’t fully agree. I agree injuries will happen on the O’Line and you need depth. But i would not extend that to an argument to say you should not invest significant cap dollars in a pro bowl quality OT. I’d prefer to use a high draft pick and benefit form a rookie contract, but I would be comfortable extending that player if he shows he is that stud OT type player.

 

If you have a stud at one tackle it makes everything else on the line easier. You can slide protections away from that player and double elsewhere to protect a weak link. You make it much harder for the D to attack your protection schemes because you have more flexibility in designing protection packages (and run block schemes) knowing you can trust on OT on an island. 
 

But it’s football, if that stud gets hurt it’s a ‘**** happens’ thing and you have to adjust.

All in on paying stud talent, even at Oline, more so if they were developed in house. 
 

Paying average guys or an average guy who had a good season by PFF metrics is questionable. Not saying its right or wrong, but not going to scrutinize the FO if they didn’t throw lavish amounts of money at average talent. Build in house and trust your development. Im trusting Ron in this regard and don’t blame him for the Oline getting decimated by injuries last season—Olines falling a part due to injuries is rampant each season throughout the league. 

[MartinC]

21 minutes ago, wit33 said:

All in on paying stud talent, even at Oline, more so if they were developed in house. 
 

Paying average guys or an average guy who had a good season by PFF metrics is questionable. Not saying its right or wrong, but not going to scrutinize the FO if they didn’t throw lavish amounts of money at average talent. Build in house and trust your development. Im trusting Ron in this regard and don’t blame him for the Oline getting decimated by injuries last season—Olines falling a part due to injuries is rampant each season throughout the league. 

 

I think thats a general issue with over relying on or overusing free agency - you often end up paying top shelf money for middle shelf talent - or worse you end up buying something past its sell by date.

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He barely played last year, the year before he played some.  PFF scores were bad then.  But whatever, will see. 

Mayhew specifically talked him up, strangely.

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Mayhew specifically talked him up, strangely.

 Ok I missed that.  I listen to just about every press conference.  And don't recall a single mention so i don't recall Mayhew talking him up.  But I buy that he said it.

 

At least on the podcasts I've listened to about OTAs -- no hype at all about him.  His contact is for small money -- $600,000 and change guaranteed.    But if they have good hopes about him, its on brand for the type of players they seem to like on the O line 😎, so i dont doubt that.

 

Going by his stats including PFF, he's been part time mostly, pretty bad pass protector but not bad run blocker.  He had one season with a lot of snaps, the one below but in that one he was slightly better at pass protect than run blocking.

 

I ignored last season because it was only 30 snaps.  But the other 4 seasons where he played, his average pass protect score is 44 which is worse than bad -- that's in the awful category.  but maybe Bieiniemy can coach him up?

 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Conn]

Please pause your “supporting cast concerns” for a scheduled hype intermission:

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

It's fun to have a young QB I am jazzed about for a change.  It's really tempting for me to see some training camp.  i wonder if there is any shot they go to Richmond again.

 

 

“Sam Howell, the quarterback you’ve given the opportunity at the most important position in sports three hours after last season ended...the plan to surround him with weapons and an offensive line sounded amazing,” Grant said. “Then I waited, and waited, and I just can’t fathom confidence going into the season that these are the guys Sam Howell has the time necessary as a young quarterback to process and make decisions and get the ball out.”

Ron Rivera addressed the offensive line in Wednesday’s OTA presser, saying he hopes to see ‘continued growth’ from the unit, which Grant believes shows the coaching staff’s faith in what they have – even if he doesn’t necessarily agree.

[Cool Hwhip]

I don't see anything obviously negative in Sam's game. Only issue I see is the obvious one: Hope his OL is decent enough so he can show his skills. Yes, that is easier said than done.

[zCommander]

7 minutes ago, Cool Hwhip said:

I don't see anything obviously negative in Sam's game. Only issue I see is the obvious one: Hope his OL is decent enough so he can show his skills. Yes, that is easier said than done.

 

A mobile and an accurate QB who can throw quickly can make a mediocre OL look good. 

[Bifflog]

1 hour ago, Cool Hwhip said:

I don't see anything obviously negative in Sam's game.

 

This is kinda where I am at, I guess it's possible that he can't see the field at all, and the fact that it didn't really reveal itself in the Dallas game is just happenstance.  That'd be the only worry that I really have.  If all goes well, there will be turnovers, and there will be letting it rip.  And then, progressively less turnovers.

[RandyHolt]

On 5/24/2023 at 3:37 AM, FootballZombie said:

 

 

Unless you got Lamar Jackson at QB that's gonna require a certain quality of passing attack.

 

We have a questionable O-line

and one of the worst TE groups in the NFL

and a O-Cord who has never installed his own NFL O

and possibly a QB who has 11 completions to his name

and everybody is learning a new system

and everyone is on job alert due to new ownership

 

 

Yeah... Off the cuff that is not a unit built for aggressiveness. If you can flip the majority of those problems into something other than glaring problems, then you can start stomping jugulars. I'm expecting us to ultimately be run heavy again. Being something else would require multiple groups to defy expectations.

For the points you mentioned why not let the defense go for the jugs to start games?  Giving up a long scoring drive while our offense hasn't even gotten onto the field is not a winning formula. At best the conservative approach on D leads to coinflips and 7-9 seasons. Go for strip sack or hurry and maybe even a helmet on a chin. Do folks not know why we dont force turnovers??

 

Attack the QB early. At worst you are only down 7 and the offense not ice cold from watching for 10 minutes. We drafted a corner hoping for turnovers but it always it starts up front. React read and get run over overly fearing a lame duck offense/QB vs attack the LOS and pressure the QB as a priority. Coaches are too predictable to start games. We finally have some young blood OCs in the league and the game is changing but not Ron. He plays like he is god fearing being down 7 quickly when we often are by playing conservative 10 minutes later anyways.

 

I always point out THE RG3 year we were down in the dumps "season over" ES on full tilt meltdown mode and suddenly with nothing to lose Haslett pressured QBs to start games. We finally beat a rookie Foiles and viola made the loffs.

Edited May 26, 2023 by RandyHolt