2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Redskins 2021]

11 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Yeah I think Pickett brings more to table and because of that will be gone at our pick. 

I think he will be there at 9 only the panthers need a qb and I think they want a vet. I guess someone could jump up to get one of them but I don't see it this year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Strongs knee was cleared last week as full healthy by the LA Rams doctor. Could be trash based on trying to get him drafted. But I am watching tape on him right now. And the guy has everything you want in an NFL QB. Monster arm, great read and recognition, huge size, excellent accuracy and underrated athleticism. He threw for 4200 yards and 36 TD's.  He is willing to fire the ball into tight windows. Which can give you throws like these:

https://streamable.com/b2scr0

Or it can lead to an occasional pick. His pocket awareness is good. But not great. He is athletic. But not really a running QB. IF HIS KNEE is cleared he is a first round talent IMO. 

 

 

Good work.  I agree with much of it, I got a major disagreement with one of your points.  IMO if he hit all your points, he'd go first in the draft.  But I think there are reasons aside from his injury history that he's QB 5 or 6 for the typical mock drafter.  Though of course, its all opinion, they, me, could be wrong of course.

 

I watched a lot of Strong, starting from game 1 this season.   I think as a pure passer, he's the best in this class.  Best deep ball.   Throws some beauty deep out routes.  Accuracy on all three levels. Really fluid.  He's my favorite pure thrower in the class as I mentioned on this thread multiple times. 

 

Where I disagree is your point is about pocket presence and underrated athleticism.  You think its good.  IMO he's mediocre at best as to pocket prescence -- often bad. Often recognizing too late when the edge rusher comes crashing in on him.   I don't find him having underrated athleticism.  He's not fast or quick IMO.  He's not hot as far as throwing on the move. 

 

All of the pocket passers they will have some moments as for moving away from pressure and throwing on the run.  Him, too.  But overall IMO, he's not underrated athletic.  If I was thinking of a pocket passer who is underrated athletic, someone like Matt Ryan hits me.  IMO Strong is more Joe Flacco than he is Matt Ryan. 

 

My concern watching him is if you don't have a stout O line, the dude could get sacked 40 plus times.  

 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[wilco_holland]

15 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I think he will be there at 9 only the panthers need a qb and I think they want a vet. I guess someone could jump up to get one of them but I don't see it this year. 

 

But it looks like all the NY picks will be in front of us. It wouldn't surprise me if Giants or Jets sell there pick pretty easy. They need A LOT of help. Falcons, Broncos, Saints and maybe Steelers could be interested to jump us. First two wouldn't even be that big of a jump.

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But overall IMO, he's not underrated athletic.  If I was thinking of a pocket passer who is underrated athletic, someone like Matt Ryan hits me.  IMO Strong is more Joe Flacco than he is Matt Ryan. 

 

My concern watching him is if you don't have a stout O line, the dude could get sacked 40 plus times.  

 

 

 

Sometimes I got a bit Big Ben light feeling from watching him. That he can find a way to find time in pocket. But you disagree with that. (Young Big Ben not old one)

[Redskins 2021]

4 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

But it looks like all the NY picks will be in front of us. It wouldn't surprise me if Giants or Jets sell there pick pretty easy. They need A LOT of help. Falcons, Broncos, Saints and maybe Steelers could be interested to jump us. First two wouldn't even be that big of a jump.

 

Sometimes I got a bit Big Ben light feeling from watching him. That he can find a way to find time in pocket. But you disagree with that. (Young Big Ben not old one)

Falcons could move up. I think NYG may go for R. Wilson with there picks. Other teams will all want vet qb.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[OMacAttack]

Just now, Redskins 2021 said:

Falcons could move up. I think NYG may go for R. Wilson with there picks.

If that's the case and they add Jones to the trade it wouldn't be crazy for the Seahawks to double down and get a QB in the draft.

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, clskinsfan said:

Strongs knee was cleared last week as full healthy by the LA Rams doctor. Could be trash based on trying to get him drafted. But I am watching tape on him right now. And the guy has everything you want in an NFL QB. Monster arm, great read and recognition, huge size, excellent accuracy and underrated athleticism. He threw for 4200 yards and 36 TD's.  He is willing to fire the ball into tight windows. Which can give you throws like these:

https://streamable.com/b2scr0

Or it can lead to an occasional pick. His pocket awareness is good. But not great. He is athletic. But not really a running QB. IF HIS KNEE is cleared he is a first round talent IMO. 

 

Ripped and I do mean ripped 12 yard out from the opposite hash:

 

Ripped off balance check down with accuracy:

 

55 yards on a rope. Pinpoint accurate:

 

Underrated mobility and speed:

 

Nice pocket awareness and mobility. Followed by a 23 yard dart:

 

Look off the safety. Avoid the free rusher and split the defense with a bullet for a 20 yard game tying TD:

 

Keep in mind all of these clips are from after his knee injury. The guy can play the QB position. And play it well. 

 

 

 

He’s going to shoot up the boards.  Can our medical team check him out from jail?

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, OMacAttack said:

If that's the case and they add Jones to the trade it wouldn't be crazy for the Seahawks to double down and get a QB in the draft.

I figure they take a shot with D jones and if it does not work pick a qb next year. They may pick QB.

[OMacAttack]

Just now, Redskins 2021 said:

I figure they take a shot with D jones and if it does not work pick a qb next year. They may pick QB.

Also possible, could give Jones the benefit of the doubt and a prove it season.  Gonna be an interesting off-season.

[Redskins 2021]

Absolutely, will be interesting what the others do and what we end up doing.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

Sometimes I got a bit Big Ben light feeling from watching him. That he can find a way to find time in pocket. But you disagree with that. (Young Big Ben not old one)

 

Not even a little for me.  Yeah for me i see no Big Ben there as far as mobility and making plays on the move.   When I watch him I think Flacco, Mark Rypien.  

 

My issue isn't that he's heavy footed.  He's skinny for his size so he's not slow from the perspective of being a dude that lumbers in the pocket as far as footwork.  If you just purely look at him, he looks size wise almost like Justin Herbert but he doesn't move like him. 

 

He's not fast or for that matter even has average speed and the combination of that with him IMO struggling to see pressure coming at him from the edges -- gives me the vibe that he might get sacked a lot, which has happened to him in some of his college games.  IMO he needs a really good offensive line to thrive. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

46 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

I think he will be there at 9 only the panthers need a qb and I think they want a vet. I guess someone could jump up to get one of them but I don't see it this year. 

I dont. I think he goes in the top 3 picks. The question then becomes is he worth multiple 1sts to move up and get him. We need to fix that position so badly at this point. Who knows? If they believe he is their franchise QB for the next decade plus then give up what you have to give up. If you have any questions at all stand pat and pick one of the other 4 guys at 7-9.

 

Edit: Loving the different takes on Strong. That is what makes this thread great. And what else do we have to get excited about anyways.

Edited January 4, 2022 by clskinsfan

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont. I think he goes in the top 3 picks. The question then becomes is he worth multiple 1sts to move up and get him. We need to fix that position so badly at this point. Who knows? If they believe he is their franchise QB for the next decade plus then give up what you have to give up. If you have any questions at all stand pat and pick one of the other 4 guys at 7-9.

Who do you think will move up?

[wilco_holland]

Giants are in a pretty bad spot. Daniel Jones has this brilliant moments that might keep you want to see more. There is something there... That you want to give him an extra chance. But I don't see him become a consistent QB. 

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, Redskins 2021 said:

Who do you think will move up?

I could see the Lions or Texans taking him in a heartbeat. And if he doesnt go there I dont think he gets past the Giants at 5. 

[Redskins 2021]

I dont think lions or texans will take QB I think this is another rebuild year for each. Davis been playing ok and Detroit only stuck with Goff one more year. 

Nyg I think will try to get Wilson using there picks and D Jones. Maybe Seattle, Atl, or Carolina but they all have other problems. 

I just don't think anyone is worth moving up in this draft but I could be wrong.

[wilco_holland]

If we go past the QBs. Is linderbaum an important enough position for us? I think our center play has been pretty good and if you slide him to Brandon spot at RG... Do you really improve or just get a younger cheaper version. 

 

In the second round. I wouldn't mind getting a RB. Walker or Hall. In general I don't like RBs early because the value of the position is so low, but we need a spark on off. Some consistent playmaker that is going to be the building block next to Terry. 

 

 

[actorguy1]

Official Senior Bowl QB Lineup  

Malik Willis

Bailey Zappe 

Kenny Pickett

Desmond Ridder

Carson Strong

Sam Howell

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wilco_holland]

11 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Official Senior Bowl QB Lineup  

Malik Willis

Bailey Zappe 

Kenny Pickett

Desmond Ridder

Carson Strong

Sam Howell

 

How on earth did I miss the second QB. Never heard of Zappe. Time for some digging. 

[DWinzit]

14 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Official Senior Bowl QB Lineup  

Malik Willis

Bailey Zappe 

Kenny Pickett

Desmond Ridder

Carson Strong

Sam Howell

This is a better group than last year, can't wait!

I am most interested to see Willis and Zappe again, this time playing with higher talent around him

[ExoDus84]

38 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

Giants are in a pretty bad spot. Daniel Jones has this brilliant moments that might keep you want to see more. There is something there... That you want to give him an extra chance. But I don't see him become a consistent QB. 

 

Jones has a 12-25 record as a starter, and 4 of those wins have come against us. He's 8-24 against every non-Washington team.

 

I hope the Giants give him a 25 year contract.

[duffy]

27 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

 

How on earth did I miss the second QB. Never heard of Zappe. Time for some digging. 

I just heard about him this week lol. 

Didn't he break some record or something?? 

[actorguy1]

20 minutes ago, duffy said:

I just heard about him this week lol. 

Didn't he break some record or something?? 

62 touchdowns this season. No biggie.

[The Consigliere]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's funny I am so used to arguing on his behalf especially going back to draft day before we took him and then even more so after we took him that I remember his stats without even looking them up.  700 Yds.  20 YPA.  4.3 and change speed.  His stats were good enough for me.  They weren't deal breakers. 

 

But the keys were I liked what I saw when I watched him including doing well seperating against some of the more ballyhooed cornerbacks in that draft.  But then the intangibles hype about Terry was nonstop.  Tough for me to just ignore it regardless of him being a late bloomer.  Like you I like to read whatever I can get my hands on and the thing about Terry was everyone was screaming that he was a special dude with special intangibles.  Mature.  Hard worker.  Coaches dream.  Does everything -- blocks, special teams, you name it.    So for me to throw out that whole package because of metrics, I couldn't do that.  And his metrics were good enough aside from being a late bloomer.

 

As for combine stats.  For WRs from what I recall its the vertical.  Speed is most essential at O line.  I've talked about that before among others here.  But it doesn't hurt to have speed in the 4.3's. 

 

Again, I put a zillion anayltic stats last year before the draft.  I am started to build it this year for RB, see below.  I subscribe to PFF.  I get Sharps books every year.  Football Outsiders.  Love that stuff.  So I am not opposed to you there.  Just explaining sometimes I'll veer away from it in some context, that's all. 

 

I get your point of sticking to a principle.  But I disagree with that to an extent.  I think you need to understand certain principles and factor that in your calls but you also need to have the guts to depart from it.  If you are paying scouts money to go visit campuses and learn about players and what makes them tick.  You don't look at Devin Thomas' one year wonder season and Terry the same way.  One is a knucklehead.  And the other has the maturity of a Hall of Famer. 

 

 

 

 

 

I don’t mind your take at all here, my problem w/guys like McLaurin who have that kind of profile is that you’re deliberately playing the longest odds w/good draft capital. To be fair, sometimes that pays off. Greece did win Euro ‘04, Denmark won Euro ‘92, the Rams won the super bowl in ‘99, the Pats in ‘01. Outliers do pay off sometimes, it’s just incredibly rare. For every NC State or Villanova college championship there are dozens of Cinderella’s made road apples by the likes of UNC, or Alabama or Duke or Clemson etc. 

 

What McLaurin did for me is take a second look at Ruggs lol for all that good did me, but it did create a caveat for me. If you’re an elite athlete it is possible to get buried at an elite program like Ohio State or Alabama or Georgia etc. I now take that into consideration w/prospects now that College football has concentrated so much elite talent at just a handful of Elite football schools. I grabbed a few shares of Ruggs 18 months ago after my favs were gone basically because of McLaurin. Oh well, at least I was able to sell off a share before he went nutjob and killed somebody and their dog.

[The Consigliere]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No doubt there isn't.  Like I've said many times whomever crafts the magic sauce for QBs would become a billionaire.  It's extremely hard.  That's why like I said I try not to give anyone a hard time for getting it wrong.  We all do.  So if i bring it up its purely to make a point about something new.  Rosen to me is relevant when we think about judging QBs based on word of mouth about how good or not good classes are.  That's all.  Heck I worshipped RG3.  I look like a fool for it now.  And there have been others.  It's hits and misses for everyone.  But its fun for me to try. 😀

 

 

Don't know.  Locker was banged up a lot in the pros so maybe that took a toll.  But agree both were projects.  Locker had a gun but I don't think it was on Allen's level. 

 

 

My take is there are a lot of factors in the soup.  Health.  Coaching.  Supporting Cast.  Intangibles.  I think everything being equal the intangibles for the QB spot is the most important variable outside of talent.  Coach after coach has given a variation of explaining why intangibles are key.  I've hit that point in detail many times on this thread but don't have the time to do it again right now. 

I translate that to mental make up and study/work habits. Part of what insured Haskins would fail. I also think at least 50% of it is landing spot. Even someone as smart as Rodgers couldn’t appreciate how fortunate he was to land in Green Bay rather than SF or Washington or whatever (SF back then was a s show). Landing w/Pittsburgh for say Lawrence would have been 10,000x better for his career than Jacksonville. The coach, oc, an coach, GM and OL are also hugely important.

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

I translate that to mental make up and study/work habits. Part of what insured Haskins would fail. I also think at least 50% of it is landing spot. Even someone as smart as Rodgers couldn’t appreciate how fortunate he was to land in Green Bay rather than SF or Washington or whatever (SF back then was a s show). Landing w/Pittsburgh for say Lawrence would have been 10,000x better for his career than Jacksonville. The coach, oc, an coach, GM and OL are also hugely important.

 

Mental make up, work habits, love of football, leadership.    You read about dudes like Tom Brady and he can't be denied.  He wanted it.  He pushed for it.  He was relentless. 

 

Shanahan said among others, he knows the first week he has the Qb in the building whether they will be successful.  He sees how they prepare and that's critical to him.  

 

Yeah in addition to that no doubt landing with a good team helps especially in terms of speeding up the process but its not everything.    QBs busts with good teams.  Mason Rudolph hasn't exactly looked hot when he's spot started at Pittsburgh over the years.  Cam looked bad at Carolina towards the end of the career, he looked bad at NE, too.  Ryan Finley had some weapons in Cincy.  Granted Burrow had even more but Finlay crapped the bed in his starts, Burrow has killed it.  Rosen versus Murray, etc.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Skinsinparadise