The 2020 running back thread.

[RandyHolt]

5 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

There's no way they're giving a big chunk of carries to sub 200lb McKissic. This just shows us he'll be on the field a lot though. 

 What about someone of Love's stature... if we are going pass happy, not running through the tackles, using deception... regardless more and more teams seem to be moving to committee approaches and starters are a mere formality the league requires of teams. 

 

It may be about an old school style coach trying not to let a kids head get too big.

[Koolblue13]

Gibson is 100% the starter and will get the most plays. Barber is underwhelming and a ST and short yardage guy. McKissic is like CT. Not a starter. Love could probably be a starter if he was 100% and looked great, but that doesn't seem accurate. Gibson is our RB. That said, I'm sure we'll see multiple back sets constantly.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Come on man. Get on the positivity train. Everything is pointing up for us and Turner is an insightful, exciting OC. Sure, we got up for Gruden and Shanny and Gibbs II and were let down, but are you telling me this doesn't feel different? You can't get excited for the new football team? I am. This is certainly the year standing in the way of the year we're really good, but it should be a fun and enjoyable season.

 

Vegas has us locked in at 31st in terms of O/U. What positivity train? 

 

If you can hop on and drive it, more power to you, I did hear Fezzik liked the over on RJ Bell's podcast so there's that, if you are a Fezzik guy (I'm not, though I do think he's much sharper than the average fan/better). 

 

The Defense should keep us in games, if Haskins develops it should help, but it's hard as heck to find teams in the NFC that are as bad as us.

NYG? Well their offense will be better but our defense will be better than NY's. 

 

Detroit? Stafford was fantastic last year when he was healthy, they have a nice backfield some weapons to throw too, can't remember how good the defense is. Not very is my recollection.

 

Carolina? Will give us a run for our money, but like NYG, the offense is built to be potentially good, DJ Moore, Curtis Samuel, Ian Thomas and McCaffrey will present plenty of opportunities

for Bridgewater. 

 

LA Rams/Arizona: Arizona's on the rise, while LA is falling, but LA still has more than enough talent to approach .500.

 

The AFC's dog patch squads:

Miami and NYJ: Both will be bad, NYJ might crater, Miami is well coached. So only NYJ might challenge us.

 

Cincy: Not really sure, the offense is loaded, the defense isn't, they should be a touch better.

 

Jacksonville: Deliberately tanking, they'll be worse.

 

Denver/Oakland/LA: The AFC West is garbage outside of KC, but all of the teams have at least one side of the bottle loaded with interesting talent. I think they're all better than us.

 

My prediction:

Ceiling: 6-10

Expectation: 4-12

Floor: 2-14

 

As for the running game itself: 

JD McKissic has always been used as a satellite back, period, so it's interesting that he might get a souped up role. He's far more talented than Barber (whose a hard working grinder w/a great personal story-coming out early despite how it would negatively impact his draft stock to help his mother) and has an interesting athletic profile:

Speed Score: 7th percentile (4.62 forty)

Burst Score: 77th Percentile (Broad Jump and Vertical Leap combined)

Agility Score: 45th Percentile

 

He's been very successful as a satellite guy so I'm curious how he'll do.

 

I don't need to dig into Barber for anything. He's a lunch pail hard worker, not a difference maker, just a traditional grinder. What people like about him is that he's committed, can play ST's, good character guy, and will get what's there, generally speaking, but not anything more. Bryce Love and Gibson are the only + athlete's on the roster. Love was expected to kill it pre ACL injury, and Gibson did kill it. I'm a bit confused why Love would be so much behind the 8 Ball, other than in terms of reps with the offense. He's a former Pre-Med student from Stanford whose stock fell for two reasons: #1 the horrific injury in his last game and #2 I do think some teams were worried about long term commitment when he, like Robert Smith 25 years ago, has a legit second career trajectory he can move to on a moments notice. I'd suspect he can pick up the offense w/o too much trouble other than with regards to reps. 

 

To me, I could picture Riverboat Ron going conservative early, and then turning to Gibson and Love once both seemed ready as neither Barber or McKissic will be difference makers to take pressure off of Haskins (though McKissic is a legit pass catching weapon out of the backfield). If Love is fully recovered in terms of health, he's a legit bell cow scale talent as well. Should be interesting to watch it develop, my chief concerns are the rumors that:

#1 Sounded like Gibson, having been a rarely used gadget guy, is probably going to take a ton of time to learn how to play RB. I think Miami's idea of using Bowden as a WR, is really what Gibson is meant to be, basically a Curtis Samuel/Deebo Samuel type, rather than a McCaffrey, we'll see though. I could be wrong, and it has sounded like the team has felt that Gibson will be slow to learn it all.

 

#2 Definitely sounds like there was heavy skepticism that Love would be physically recovered to the extent of playing again as a legit weapon, and yet he passed the physicals etc, and is ready to go. Does that mean there is clear deterioration in his athleticism or just that he needs more recovery time? What are their thoughts?

 

I don't know. All I can tell you is that Barber is a grinder, McKissic is a great satellite back, and neither has proven squat as a bell cow and probably can't be a legit one that makes any kind of difference.

 

Will be a fun season if Love and Gibson get the touches in the 2nd half or last 3/4's of the season (if there's a full one) to give us answers on whether they are long term answers in the offense and as a potential bell cow. Will help streamline choices for the '21 draft, especially considering how god awful it is at RB (the '17, '18 and '20 drafts were great for RB talent, '21 looks horrible beyond maybe Etienne and Hubbard). 

[Koolblue13]

AP said he was released because AG is a beast and will get the bulk of the workload. He's the only clear cut RB with a ton of upside. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

AP said he was released because AG is a beast and will get the bulk of the workload. He's the only clear cut RB with a ton of upside. 

 

Yea even while he was here, AP was glowing over AG's potential.

Surely he must have seen the writing on the wall, at that point.

[RandyHolt]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

If I were Scott Turner, and didn't have a ton of WR's and TE's, I'd run a lot of packages with both McKissic and Gibson in the backfield. Motion one out to the slot. Have both run patterns. 

 

Yep.  "Starter" scharter  it's comes to down what packages are working / giving the defenses fits, game situations, giving guys breathers... maybe Philly has 2 DBs clunk heads to start the game and we can go pass happy. I want Rivera to change gears and attack weaknesses on the fly. Ride the hot hand, but do give his rooks a taste to help them cool their nerves and get their feet wet without his first snap being pass pro in the 4th down a TD.

[Dark Acre]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

I drafted Gibs and McKiss heh. Who is handcuffing who.

 

Whom.

He (Gibson) is handcuffing him (McKiss).  For now.

[RandyHolt]

10 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

AP said he was released because AG is a beast and will get the bulk of the workload. He's the only clear cut RB with a ton of upside. 

 

I am not sure AP knows RRs plan for AG.  I feel like AP was wrong on a few things he said about TW...

 

A mistake or 2 here or there and the AG plans can change, regardless.

 

 

[Dark Acre]

17 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 #2 I do think some teams were worried about long term commitment when he, like Robert Smith 25 years ago, has a legit second career trajectory he can move to on a moments notice.

 I had to think about that one for a sec, but yeah, The Cure was a legit second career.

[Malapropismic Depository]

31 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I don't know. All I can tell you is that Barber is a grinder, McKissic is a great satellite back, and neither has proven squat as a bell cow and probably can't be a legit one that makes any kind of difference.

 

 

 

That concerns me, with no proven bell cow. And our named starting RB, is known mainly as a pass-catching RB.

McKissic is hardly known as a runner, at all. Same could be said for Gibson.

It's looking like RB by Committee, or throwing spaghetti at the wall, to see what sticks, or Trial and Error.

[KDawg]

29 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

AP said he was released because AG is a beast and will get the bulk of the workload. He's the only clear cut RB with a ton of upside. 

Part of the reason you release a vet when you have a young guy behind him is when you think you’re a bit from contending, so you want to give the rookie a look, game experience, and see if he can be lightning in a bottle. 
 

Barber is on the roster because 1) he can play specs, 2) has experience in the league as a back, 3) AP was let go because Rivera respects him and would rather he have a chance than sit on the bench while the young guys develop and only be used sparingly when he’s in range of some historic territory.

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

That concerns me, with no proven bell cow. And our named starting RB, is known mainly as a pass-catching RB.

McKissic is hardly known as a runner, at all. Same could be said for Gibson.

It's looking like RB by Committee, or throwing spaghetti at the wall, to see what sticks, or Trial and Error.

I really think this was done to give AP a chance to head towards history while letting the young guys and guys who need reps develop.

 

I think Rivera knows, that even with AP, the team has holes. So the best chance is lightning in a bottle... which we COULD have. Why waste AP’s time and the team’s time? Pull of the bandaid and start the process and in the process have some class and let AP go and chase records.

 

I actually respect Rivera more for doing it this way, even though the short term makes us (marginally) worse from a consistency/experience perspective 

[Malapropismic Depository]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I really think this was done to give AP a chance to head towards history while letting the young guys and guys who need reps develop.

 

I think Rivera knows, that even with AP, the team has holes. So the best chance is lightning in a bottle... which we COULD have. Why waste AP’s time and the team’s time? Pull of the bandaid and start the process and in the process have some class and let AP go and chase records.

 

I actually respect Rivera more for doing it this way, even though the short term makes us (marginally) worse from a consistency/experience perspective 

 

It almost sounds like Rivera recognizes that this team will not compete for the playoffs this year, and has given up on that for 2020.

Is that the feeling you get ?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

It almost sounds like Rivera recognizes that this team will not compete for the playoffs this year, and has given up on that for 2020.

Is that the feeling you get ?

Yes. The team needs to catch lightning in a bottle offensively to succeed. Or click in a crazy, crazy way. AP wasn’t going to click like that given the offense and his skill set. 
 

Letting him go isn’t Rivera saying “we can’t win”. It’s him saying, “we’re lacking talent, and if we win it’s going to take something electric and in this system, AP isn’t going to be it.”

 

Obviously, he hasn’t said that. But I feel that way myself and I try to examine things from that lens.

 

Of course, Rivera could also just be saying, “he’s not as good as the other backs”. 
 

It’s all conjecture without hearing from him.

 

But I’d say it was a multi-faceted decision 

[Chachie]

2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

It almost sounds like Rivera recognizes that this team will not compete for the playoffs this year, and has given up on that for 2020.

Is that the feeling you get ?

 

Mal- 

 

I do agree to some degree but personally would not use the phrase "giving up on that." IMHO, Rivera is doing exactly what needs to be done for the future. This means analyzing what we have, recognizing what we need, and taking the time to teach a young squad the effort and attributes that a consistent, balanced, effective team needs to be successful. 

 

There's nothing to give up on. there's something to build on. Every season the front office and coach blurts out that "Our mission is always playing for a Super Bowl. That's our goal." I heard it from Gruden and Allen every year and it always made me nauseous. They knew they were lying every time they said it and I have to assume that it was always coming from Snyder and rolling downhill through them to the media and ultimately into our laps. It's doggy-doo. It's nowhere close to reality. I like seeing some acknowledgement of reality here. It helps me assume the notion that we are (this time) BUILDING something instead of making things up to sell tickets.

 

Instead of setting us up for the annual HUGE disappointment, he's tempering expectations and dealing us a fair hand. Now we can be pleasantly surprised when we win instead of, when we lose, feeling like we've been oversold a product that was never going to deliver. 

 

[Vanguard]

3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Yep.  "Starter" scharter  it's comes to down what packages are working / giving the defenses fits, game situations, giving guys breathers... maybe Philly has 2 DBs clunk heads to start the game and we can go pass happy. I want Rivera to change gears and attack weaknesses on the fly. Ride the hot hand, but do give his rooks a taste to help them cool their nerves and get their feet wet without his first snap being pass pro in the 4th down a TD.

I hope they take six or seven shots with Terry on playaction.  I would if I was the coach.  But I’m a Terry fan, so......

[TheShredder]

3 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

That concerns me, with no proven bell cow. And our named starting RB, is known mainly as a pass-catching RB.

McKissic is hardly known as a runner, at all. Same could be said for Gibson.

It's looking like RB by Committee, or throwing spaghetti at the wall, to see what sticks, or Trial and Error.

Since they've said they like them all, probably just had to put someone 1st on the depth chart. I'm expecting 2 RB sets as well.  The more confusion the better.  Watching the game and trying to figure out what they're doing is going to be challenging. I'd like to see Tony Romo try and call out WFT plays pre-snap.  I expect the pre-snap looks to change and confuse everyone.  How do put 8 in the box when you ultimately have 5 receivers on the field every play!? 

[TheShredder]

The tape on Mckissic and Gibson has a common denominator where both consistently are making the first defender miss.  Then they're at top speed quickly.  I wonder which one breaks it off first??  

[Morneblade]

On 9/7/2020 at 8:51 PM, Vanguard said:

There are worse offenses than us.  And we no longer have clueless coaches.  

 

Not many. Serious holes on the OL, not much at WR, and basically nobody at RB. With a rookie QB that started a handful of games last year and wasn't great. Fact of the matter is there is a real lack of talent or experience on the offensive side of the ball. It's not pretty.

[Vanguard]

Just now, Morneblade said:

 

Not many. Serious holes on the OL, not much at WR, and basically nobody at RB. With a rookie QB that started a handful of games last year and wasn't great. Fact of the matter is there is a real lack of talent or experience on the offensive side of the ball. It's not pretty.

We don’t know what we have at running back.  It’s an unknown.  Kid could be a stud.  We upgraded at tight end, and this is a new scheme totally.  Difficult to prepare for.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, Vanguard said:

We don’t know what we have at running back.  It’s an unknown.  Kid could be a stud.  We upgraded at tight end, and this is a new scheme totally.  Difficult to prepare for.

This is what we don't have. A legit back. We have a WR turned RB (with everything that entails, complete lack of experience on reading gaps, reading holes, pas pro, ect.), a couple fringe guys, and 1 dude that actually was good in college, but he's small and banged up. Listen, if you want to get really excited about the posibilities, that's fine. I'm going to be realistic. We don't have much back there. Peterson might not have been all that versatile, but he's still better by a county mile at his age than anyone else we had. I'd have kept him at least one more year.

 

[Vanguard]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

This is what we don't have. A legit back. We have a WR turned RB (with everything that entails, complete lack of experience on reading gaps, reading holes, pas pro, ect.), a couple fringe guys, and 1 dude that actually was good in college, but he's small and banged up. Listen, if you want to get really excited about the posibilities, that's fine. I'm going to be realistic. We don't have much back there. Peterson might not have been all that versatile, but he's still better by a county mile at his age than anyone else we had. I'd have kept him at least one more year.

 

  
And youll be the first one saying “I knew we could do it,” if we win.  Why concede defeat before the game even begins?

[Vanguard]

Granted this is a running back thread.  But I trust these coaches.  They got to see things that we didn’t on a daily basis.  AP himself way before cuts said, he had to be on his game because of Gibsons size and speed.  I thought maybe he was just giving him a confidence boost, but now I believe the writing was on the wall.

[Stone Cold]

I was right about Stephen Davis waaaaay back when.  Lemme see if I can do it twice and say AG is gonna ball out this year.  Change is closer than we think.  ...maybe

[RandyHolt]

What % of run plays are not stuffed or blown up, and a RB is faced with a tough choice of what hole to hit that will lead to significantly more yardage?   I contend its maybe once or twice a game, if that.  Play calls he is comfortable with can easily mitigate that IMO. 

 

I am sticking to my guns they see enough in the kid that even if he hits the wrong GAP he is still going to gash defenses. RR will call quick hits if its a real problem like Gruden did with Perine so it will be easy to tell leading to a shift outside.

 

Is there enough tape on Gibson to know what style back he is? Zone one cut and go, or ?