Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

If Young continues to play like he has so far this year and continues to improve, then I would really like to keep him around next year and see if we can get a much better coaching staff in here to utilize his talents. 
 

We need to at least try to get a D Co that will try to hide coverages and schemes, not just play straight up and rush 4 all the time. I think he could take that next step if we could somehow create mismatches. I think the whole d-line is better than Del Rio schemes or lack there of. 

I don't want to spend ~$20m per player on 3 DL players no matter what the scenario.  We already paid Allen and Payne.  Neither can be traded due to their contracts.

 

Ergo, I think they need to let both Young and Sweat go. 

 

It will be REALLY interesting to see what a new GM will think of this scenario.  This has nothing to do with Chase per se.  It has to do with overall roster construction, and the fact the DL hasn't lived up to it's ability at any time it has been together.  

 

I think it's time to move on, almost no matter what.  

 

Each draft pick in a vacuum was fine. But all together, it was a mistake.  

 

I wonder if Ron could have traded down a spot or two and collected extra picks and used them elsewhere.  Not suggesting QB.  But Young was the absolute consensus #2 pick in that draft.  Maybe he could have moved down and gotten 2 firsts out of it and not ended up drafting 4 DL in consecutive years.  

[Koolblue13]

 

[KDawg]

He’s right. Young had a great game against the Bears. The larger sample size says he has a contain issue, but he didn’t last Thursday.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I just listened to him on Al Galdi's podcast.  He basically said he spent the entire weekend listening to people over the weekend say Young was generating pressures at the detriment of the defense, and I think the exact quote was something like "I don't know where that was coming from.  It's simply not true."  

 

He then went on to say that it WAS true in 2021, when the 4 first round picks just all seemed to say "we're first round picks, we're going to beat our man, and ended up rushing in the same gap. And he wasn't the only one guilty of that."  

 

But this year, he stated it's just not true.

 

Which, I guess, is a good thing.  

 

I'll come back to my "bigger picture" point, however: the defense, as currently constructed, doesn't work.  This group of players/coaches underperforms as a unit consistently.  It should be a dominating, disrupting, take over games even against good teams defense.  It has NEVER been that, save for the odd performance here or there.  

 

It has been good to great against bad offenses at times.  It's been run-over by good offenses almost consistently.  

 

It's not on Chase.  It's not on any one or two players.  It's the collection of players and coaches that all together are not as good as the sum of their parts.  The whole thing needs to be nuked and re-built. 

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I just listened to him on Al Galdi's podcast.  He basically said he spent the entire weekend listening to people over the weekend say Young was generating pressures at the detriment of the defense, and I think the exact quote was something like "I don't know where that was coming from.  It's simply not true."  

 

He then went on to say that it WAS true in 2021, when the 4 first round picks just all seemed to say "we're first round picks, we're going to beat our man, and ended up rushing in the same gap. And he wasn't the only one guilty of that."  

 

But this year, he stated it's just not true.

 

Which, I guess, is a good thing.  

 

I'll come back to my "bigger picture" point, however: the defense, as currently constructed, doesn't work.  This group of players/coaches underperforms as a unit consistently.  It should be a dominating, disrupting, take over games even against good teams defense.  It has NEVER been that, save for the odd performance here or there.  

 

It has been good to great against bad offenses at times.  It's been run-over by good offenses almost consistently.  

 

It's not on Chase.  It's not on any one or two players.  It's the collection of players and coaches that all together are not as good as the sum of their parts.  The whole thing needs to be nuked and re-built. 

Our problem on defense this year has been back linebackers and a terrible secondary, partially because of use of the safeties and play calling.

 

Complaining about the DL is absolutely ridiculous. Might as well say that Howell is the problem on offense, too.

 

Fans love to whine about Chase not being the best defensive player in the league, when he is playing great and has gotten better every week coming back from a vicious injury.

[samy316]

28 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I just listened to him on Al Galdi's podcast.  He basically said he spent the entire weekend listening to people over the weekend say Young was generating pressures at the detriment of the defense, and I think the exact quote was something like "I don't know where that was coming from.  It's simply not true."  

 

He then went on to say that it WAS true in 2021, when the 4 first round picks just all seemed to say "we're first round picks, we're going to beat our man, and ended up rushing in the same gap. And he wasn't the only one guilty of that."  

 

But this year, he stated it's just not true.

 

Which, I guess, is a good thing.  

 

I'll come back to my "bigger picture" point, however: the defense, as currently constructed, doesn't work.  This group of players/coaches underperforms as a unit consistently.  It should be a dominating, disrupting, take over games even against good teams defense.  It has NEVER been that, save for the odd performance here or there.  

 

It has been good to great against bad offenses at times.  It's been run-over by good offenses almost consistently.  

 

It's not on Chase.  It's not on any one or two players.  It's the collection of players and coaches that all together are not as good as the sum of their parts.  The whole thing needs to be nuked and re-built. 

 

Until we get better coaching, I think we'll continue to underperform on the defensive side.  I know that we don't have adequate linebackers, but you still shouldn't be giving up 30 PPG as a defense, with the amount of talent and resources we have invested on that side of the ball.  This is entirely a coaching issue, in my opinion.  I'd love to see a young D-coordinator take over the reigns with this group.  I guarantee you that we wouldn't be having issues in getting to the QB, or covering guys.  I also think that in today's NFL, you're not going to shut down high-powered offenses.  Look at the 49ers, last year they were elite on defense, but the best offensive team they played all year (Chiefs) came into Levi's Stadium and dropped 44 points on them.  No NFL defenses are ever going to dominate powerful offensive teams, but you can dominate average to below average offenses.  That's where my biggest concern is. 

 

I can understand giving up 31 points to the Eagles, or even 37 to the Bills (even though a lot of those points were set up by offensive turnovers).  What I can't accept is Denver looking like the '99 Rams against us for a half, or the Bears having their best offensive showing in years against this defense.  That simply cannot happen.

[Voice_of_Reason]

25 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Our problem on defense this year has been back linebackers and a terrible secondary, partially because of use of the safeties and play calling.

 

Complaining about the DL is absolutely ridiculous. Might as well say that Howell is the problem on offense, too.

 

Fans love to whine about Chase not being the best defensive player in the league, when he is playing great and has gotten better every week coming back from a vicious injury.

I think it's all of it.  It just doesn't work together.  There aren't 3 units on defense, it's one defense.  Everything needs to be in sync.  And it's not. 

 

I'm not complaining about the DL.  They've been ok at times. They've been non-existent at times. 

 

It's the unit as a whole which is completely broken.

 

And what's bananas is except for 2 players, its' the exact same group as last year:  Barton at LB and Forbes for CB. 

 

Every other player is the same as last season.  I guess you could say Young because he missed the first 15 games, but he was on the team, and had been the previous 3 years.  

 

Nothing is working.  It's the same coaches, basically the same players, and it's not working at all.

 

It's time to blow it up.  They shouldn't have spent 6 first round picks on defense over the last 7 years.  It is what it is.  Can't change the past.  

 

Don't try and fix it.  Nuke it.  Allen and Payne aren't going anywhere because of their contracts. Literally everybody else is replaceable.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

Until we get better coaching, I think we'll continue to underperform on the defensive side.  I know that we don't have adequate linebackers, but you still shouldn't be giving up 30 PPG as a defense, with the amount of talent and resources we have invested on that side of the ball.  This is entirely a coaching issue, in my opinion.  I'd love to see a young D-coordinator take over the reigns with this group.  I guarantee you that we wouldn't be having issues in getting to the QB, or covering guys.  I also think that in today's NFL, you're not going to shut down high-powered offenses.  Look at the 49ers, last year they were elite on defense, but the best offensive team they played all year (Chiefs) came into Levi's Stadium and dropped 44 points on them.  No NFL defenses are ever going to dominate powerful offensive teams, but you can dominate average to below average offenses.  That's where my biggest concern is. 

 

I can understand giving up 31 points to the Eagles, or even 37 to the Bills (even though a lot of those points were set up by offensive turnovers).  What I can't accept is Denver looking like the '99 Rams against us for a half, or the Bears having their best offensive showing in years against this defense.  That simply cannot happen.

I don't think it's entirely coaching.  I think it's part of it. Probably a big part of it. But not all of it. The talent is just mis-matched.  That's on the FO.  Some of the players are just not as good as we think they are.  Some of it is coaching and scheme.  It's everything all put together in a blender of suck.  

 

I was out on Jack 2 years ago.  Firing him now won't do anything.  

 

The problem is, at this point, they're going to have to pay BIG MONEY to keep this cast of players around

Sweat, Young, Curl and Fuller are all FAs after the season, as are ALL of the backup DL.  

Barton (FWIW) is also a FA.  

St. Juste and Davis have one more year.  

 

They can't bring this group back.  You're looking at allocating $100m+ in signing bonuses to bring all these guys back.  Minimum.  

 

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think it's all of it.  It just doesn't work together.  There aren't 3 units on defense, it's one defense.  Everything needs to be in sync.  And it's not. 

 

I'm not complaining about the DL.  They've been ok at times. They've been non-existent at times. 

 

It's the unit as a whole which is completely broken.

 

And what's bananas is except for 2 players, its' the exact same group as last year:  Barton at LB and Forbes for CB. 

 

Every other player is the same as last season.  I guess you could say Young because he missed the first 15 games, but he was on the team, and had been the previous 3 years.  

 

Nothing is working.  It's the same coaches, basically the same players, and it's not working at all.

 

It's time to blow it up.  They shouldn't have spent 6 first round picks on defense over the last 7 years.  It is what it is.  Can't change the past.  

 

Don't try and fix it.  Nuke it.  Allen and Payne aren't going anywhere because of their contracts. Literally everybody else is replaceable.  

We lost our best position coach, who was coaching the worst unit on defense in the secondary and it's been reported that Jack is handling a lot of HC duties, so yes. Things have changed.

 

The play calling has also changed and we're calling different coverages that aren't working.

 

Holcombe was an important and obviously under valued part of the defense and I think we can drop this absurd take that LBers aren't that important in todays NFL.

 

And yes, the defense has different units and the Line has been the least of our worries.

 

We have the 5th highest ranked DL and are second most in pressure rate (34.5%). Yes, that is a great and they're playing great.

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't think it's entirely coaching.  I think it's part of it. Probably a big part of it. But not all of it. The talent is just mis-matched.  That's on the FO.  Some of the players are just not as good as we think they are.  Some of it is coaching and scheme.  It's everything all put together in a blender of suck.  

 

I was out on Jack 2 years ago.  Firing him now won't do anything.  

 

The problem is, at this point, they're going to have to pay BIG MONEY to keep this cast of players around

Sweat, Young, Curl and Fuller are all FAs after the season, as are ALL of the backup DL.  

Barton (FWIW) is also a FA.  

St. Juste and Davis have one more year.  

 

They can't bring this group back.  You're looking at allocating $100m+ in signing bonuses to bring all these guys back.  Minimum.  

 

 

We can afford to bring every FA we have back and still sign FAs signings. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

We have the 5th highest ranked DL and are second most in pressure rate (34.5%). Yes, that is a great and they're playing great.

Thank you. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We lost our best position coach, who was coaching the worst unit on defense in the secondary and it's been reported that Jack is handling a lot of HC duties, so yes. Things have changed.

Jack's not doing **** with HC duties.  That was 2 years ago. Now it's EB. 

 

Losing Harris was a thing.  Granted.  

 

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The play calling has also changed and we're calling different coverages that aren't working.

Somewhat and at times.  

 

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Holcombe was an important and obviously under valued part of the defense and I think we can drop this absurd take that LBers aren't that important in todays NFL.

He didn't play more than half of last year due to injury.  And the defense wasn't nearly as bad.  

 

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

And yes, the defense has different units and the Line has been the least of our worries.

Not arguing.  

 

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We have the 5th highest ranked DL and are second most in pressure rate (34.5%). Yes, that is a great and they're playing great.

5th highest ranked DL based on what statistic? 

 

Statistics can be deceiving.  Lies, damn lies and statistics.  Never forget that.  

 

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We can afford to bring every FA we have back and still sign FAs signings. 

That would be the most unbelievably stupid thing a new GM could do. Bring back a whole bunch of underperforming players from a previous underperforming regime at a very high dollar figure? That would be unbelievably stupid. 

 

There are going to be HUGE changes to the roster next year.  Partially out of desire, partially out of the fact 2/3 of the team is unsigned.   

Edited October 11, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[samy316]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't think it's entirely coaching.  I think it's part of it. Probably a big part of it. But not all of it. The talent is just mis-matched.  That's on the FO.  Some of the players are just not as good as we think they are.  Some of it is coaching and scheme.  It's everything all put together in a blender of suck.  

 

I was out on Jack 2 years ago.  Firing him now won't do anything.  

 

The problem is, at this point, they're going to have to pay BIG MONEY to keep this cast of players around

Sweat, Young, Curl and Fuller are all FAs after the season, as are ALL of the backup DL.  

Barton (FWIW) is also a FA.  

St. Juste and Davis have one more year.  

 

They can't bring this group back.  You're looking at allocating $100m+ in signing bonuses to bring all these guys back.  Minimum.  

 

 

 

I'm the absolute last person to give excuses to coaches, but I think that the loss of Chris Harris was devastating for the secondary.  It's clear that Harris was able to get the best out of that secondary last year, and his absence in magnified by the atrocious play in the secondary this season.  Apparently, Harris' contract ran out, and we didn't offer him a new deal, until he was practically out the door.  That's unacceptable.  Harris was also one of the only coaches on the staff that was highly regarded in NFL circles, and is thought to be a young, promising DC going forward.  Letting anyone leave, especially when there are almost zero competent coaches on staff is brutal to comprehend.  Don't get me wrong, I blame our defensive woes on Del Rio, but I think it's hampered by the fact that we let a really good coach walk out the door for nothing.

[Fan since a Fetus]

19 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't want to spend ~$20m per player on 3 DL players no matter what the scenario.  We already paid Allen and Payne.  Neither can be traded due to their contracts.

 

Ergo, I think they need to let both Young and Sweat go. 

 

It will be REALLY interesting to see what a new GM will think of this scenario.  This has nothing to do with Chase per se.  It has to do with overall roster construction, and the fact the DL hasn't lived up to it's ability at any time it has been together.  

 

I think it's time to move on, almost no matter what.  

 

Each draft pick in a vacuum was fine. But all together, it was a mistake.  

 

I wonder if Ron could have traded down a spot or two and collected extra picks and used them elsewhere.  Not suggesting QB.  But Young was the absolute consensus #2 pick in that draft.  Maybe he could have moved down and gotten 2 firsts out of it and not ended up drafting 4 DL in consecutive years.  

IMO, if Young continues down this path and can bring us about 12+ sacks, a couple of forced fumbles while continuing the QB pressures, you pay him. You can always renegotiate Allen or Payne. I think after this year, Allen has 2 years left on his deal. If he is still playing at a high level, you could extend him a year or two to help with the cap.

 

Leno is a large contract that will most likely be gone next year and the same with Samuel. 
 

If you have solid lines on both offense and defense, you’ve won half the battle already. It is hard replacing a really good DE. We won’t find someone that can do this next year for cheaper. If Young keep this up, I think you tag him and work out a deal. As of right now, I would offer Sweat a good deal, but nothing ground breaking.

 

I think a new DC that has creativity and aggressiveness could do incredible things with this d-line. I think our DBs could be better as well. Im just holding out hope that Forbes can become a reliable corner at this point. We definitely need some better LBers to take advantage of the d-line. 
 

As of right now, yeah the d-line hasn’t done much. They don’t look special. However, I’m placing that firmly on Del Rio. When the offense always knows how you’re going to play from one snap to the next, it puts your D at an even larger disadvantage than they already are. 
 

If we let Chase walk or trade him for nothing, with way he has played lately we will regret it in no time. We have what appears to be a good young qb on a rookie contract as well. These are the kind of situations that teams salivate for because they can stack other areas. We just need player personnel guys to step up and evaluate well. They really really screwed the hell out of this draft.

[Conn]

5 minutes ago, samy316 said:

 

I'm the absolute last person to give excuses to coaches, but I think that the loss of Chris Harris was devastating for the secondary.  It's clear that Harris was able to get the best out of that secondary last year, and his absence in magnified by the atrocious play in the secondary this season.  Apparently, Harris' contract ran out, and we didn't offer him a new deal, until he was practically out the door.  That's unacceptable.  Harris was also one of the only coaches on the staff that was highly regarded in NFL circles, and is thought to be a young, promising DC going forward.  Letting anyone leave, especially when there are almost zero competent coaches on staff is brutal to comprehend.  Don't get me wrong, I blame our defensive woes on Del Rio, but I think it's hampered by the fact that we let a really good coach walk out the door for nothing.

Snyder wasn’t allowing money to be spent on staffing like that towards the end. They had to wait until Harris was officially the owner before they could even push our OL coach’s promotion through. I guarantee that’s why they didn’t offer Harris an extension to return. 

[Fan since a Fetus]

44 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don't think it's entirely coaching.  I think it's part of it. Probably a big part of it. But not all of it. The talent is just mis-matched.  That's on the FO.  Some of the players are just not as good as we think they are.  Some of it is coaching and scheme.  It's everything all put together in a blender of suck.  

 

I was out on Jack 2 years ago.  Firing him now won't do anything.  

 

The problem is, at this point, they're going to have to pay BIG MONEY to keep this cast of players around

Sweat, Young, Curl and Fuller are all FAs after the season, as are ALL of the backup DL.  

Barton (FWIW) is also a FA.  

St. Juste and Davis have one more year.  

 

They can't bring this group back.  You're looking at allocating $100m+ in signing bonuses to bring all these guys back.  Minimum.  

 

 

You let Fuller and Barton walk. Yeah, you have to replace them, but they aren’t irreplaceable. Give Sweat a solid offer, if he wants to test the market, let him. We will see if St. Juste can even stay healthy this year or next before worrying about him. We have another year with Davis and we will see if he steps up.

 

right now, you don’t let Young walk (with the way he is playing) for fear of losing Barton, Fuller, St Juste or any of the other average guys. 

[Koolblue13]

Fuller is a couple INTs away from playing at a pro bowl level this year and has been great for us. I'm not letting him walk for a modest CB contract, when it's Forbes and Juste behind him.

[Fan since a Fetus]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Fuller is a couple INTs away from playing at a pro bowl level this year and has been great for us. I'm not letting him walk for a modest CB contract, when it's Forbes and Juste behind him.

Fuller has always been solid. I’m not taking anything away from him. But if he has to find a new home in order to keep Young, then that is what I would do. However, I don’t think you have to choose. I think we can afford to keep both. 

[Warhead36]

You can't possibly let Fuller go.  He's our most reliable CB and isn't old at all(turns 29 in February).

 

The question to ask now is: if we're 2-5 heading into the trade deadline(Oct 31), and Young is playing at a high level, do you trade him? If some team offers a 2nd I'd think about it, even though I wanna keep him, because if he hits FA it's almost a lock he'll walk.

[UK Skins]

NFL.com talking about just that scenario Warhead.

[wit33]

14 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You can't possibly let Fuller go.  He's our most reliable CB and isn't old at all(turns 29 in February).

 

The question to ask now is: if we're 2-5 heading into the trade deadline(Oct 31), and Young is playing at a high level, do you trade him? If some team offers a 2nd I'd think about it, even though I wanna keep him, because if he hits FA it's almost a lock he'll walk.

Corners worry me much like RBs when nearing 30. No real data I’m basing this off of. Thoughts? 

[Koolblue13]

26 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You can't possibly let Fuller go.  He's our most reliable CB and isn't old at all(turns 29 in February).

 

The question to ask now is: if we're 2-5 heading into the trade deadline(Oct 31), and Young is playing at a high level, do you trade him? If some team offers a 2nd I'd think about it, even though I wanna keep him, because if he hits FA it's almost a lock he'll walk.

The new GM can tag Chase is he's playing well. You don't get a shot at a player like him very often. I wouldn't let him go.

 

I'm definitely not letting Fuller leave.

[Fan since a Fetus]

An average to above average corner or a DE playing like you thought he could when you drafted him. You can keep both. But you pick the DE 10/10 times. 
 

Young is under our control because we can franchise him and work on a deal. You’re not going to franchise Fuller, it wouldn’t make sense. You’re not paying Fuller $19 mil next season. You bring in your new regime and try to work on a deal. If you can’t and he wants to test the market, then you really don’t have a choice. 
 

But, I don’t think this is an either or situation. You can afford both if they want to be here and if the next regime wants them. 
 

With the way Young is playing, even a second rounder would be dumb right now. I’ve been against Young up until the last couple of games, but he is playing really really well. I’m actually excited for him to be on our team. This is the first time since we drafted him. Unlike most, I wasn’t thrilled with his rookie season, but he was learning. The guy playing right now is so close to exactly what we need. 
 

Also, in this scenario, I definitely see Sweat walking. He’s going to test the market and someone is going to overpay for him.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[FootballZombie]

18 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

The new GM can tag Chase is he's playing well. You don't get a shot at a player like him very often. I wouldn't let him go.

 

I can see that.

Edge is like the second most valuable position and if we want him, we won't let him walk for nothing. We'll tag his butt.

 

If he is worth a big contract from anybody, (and right now he is) he'll either be here, or be in position to let us score some assets.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Had a heck of a game today.

[Ball Security]

5 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Had a heck of a game today.

He did. It was against a guy who was on the couch a couple weeks ago. But, yeah, he was very impactful.