RandyHolt Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 29 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said: The Kirk signing was just as bad for the market as the Osweiler signing that the Texans did. Completely reset the market. Now everything is going to be guaranteed. I don't know why any player would accept less. I'll at least get to tell my kids stories of when players didn't get tenure. It's not just guaranteed money. The kicker is the length of contract. One thing I used to love about sports, was when players didn't frantically change teams all the time. When you saw the Chargers were playing the Raiders on Monday Night, dammit you knew you were getting Dan Fouts vs Ken Stabler. You didn't need a free agent tracker app to know who you would see. While jersey sales may skyrocket, I think players moving teams even more is bad for the game. A team can never establish an identity for fans to relate to, and the players become interchangeable. We mind as well have robots on magnets buzzing randomly around the field out there. I am still reeling from the Capitals not matching the offer sheet to Scott Stevens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Thom Loverro is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Williams can get a salary guarantee for the entire 2019 season simply by being on the roster for the first game, just like any other vested vet. The chance that he'd be cut prior to the start of 2020 season, even if he sustained a serious injury in 2019, is pretty slim. Even if he had a leg and an arm amputated, he'd still be better than his backup by a long shot. His base salary plus per game roster bonus is $15M in 2019 and 16.5M in 2020, which is pretty elite for someone of his age and injury history. This makes me think that there is something more going on than just money. There's some bad blood between Williams and someone in the organization, and it certainly isn't a low-level trainer. Williams could have a trainer fired by snapping his fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchetwound Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 He wants gaurenteed money. Just get Bruce to give him an extension with all gaurenteed money. It will be a small bump in the cap spread out over many years and Trent is then happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyHolt Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Conspiracy grade theory... and no this is not specific to Trent. Many players with non guaranteed contracts can find themselves in this situation. Let's say all pro player X hasn't fully recovered from 4 injuries from last year. That deep down, he fears his career may be over, as injuries are still lingering or not healing up like they used to. That whole father time thing. On top of that there is this new kid playing at outside backer making all the OLs Sweat and look bad. Player X knows that coaches and fans will see right away that he is done, once he starts practicing. Wouldn't it be financially prudent to try to get a guaranteed contract signed, versus embarrassingly being cut and getting paid nothing? Get a new contract, report, fall down on day 2 hold last years injury in agony, throw the helmet off, and ride off into the sunset. Sure it would be immoral, but this is all capitalism, dammit. And, hasn't player X earned a gold watch anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 3 hours ago, Burgold said: It's because of the salary cap. We want our team to succeed. If a guy is sucking up all our cap and can't produce (injuries) or plays far below their salary level then it hurts the team's prospects in a big way. Think Alex Smith. If Bruce Allen hadn't repeated the same exact mistake he had with McNabb then the Redskins would have been able to address other weaknesses easier, he would have had more flexibility to address the Trent Williams situation, etc. A bad contract hurts fan experience. There's also the fairness aspect. Many of us look at our professions or the professions that matter (soldier, paramedic, teacher, policeman) and there is the innate understanding that our value scale is tremendously out of whack. I think this plays a lesser role because most of us have come to grips with the money celebrity brings, but hell, even a third string qb who will never see the field once in his life likely makes more than 90% of the posters on this board. I do understand that, but it's something that every team has to deal with. Great teams, good teams, bad teams. Everyone has contract and salary cap issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 14 hours ago, NoCalMike said: Trent fighting for some guaranteed money, while Cousins is enjoying 100% guaranteed money. Let that sink in. That's fine to say, but look at it this way: So far, according to spotrac.com, Trent Williams has made $95M in the NFL. At the time Cousins started only agreeing to the tag prior to 2016 he had made less than $3M. Trent Williams doesn't need to apologize for that discrepancy of course. But one guy was clearly positioning himself for potentially his only chance to cash in while the other guy has cashed in a couple times already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 5 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: Thom Loverro is useless. I mean you could literally copy and paste this into any and every thread and it would still be both applicable and factual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 All seems too quiet on this one. Personally I'd pay him an extra 3mil per year over the remainder of his contract and guarantee most of his 2020 salary. Starting to wonder if we are looking at trade options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 6 hours ago, RandyHolt said: It's not just guaranteed money. The kicker is the length of contract. One thing I used to love about sports, was when players didn't frantically change teams all the time. When you saw the Chargers were playing the Raiders on Monday Night, dammit you knew you were getting Dan Fouts vs Ken Stabler. You didn't need a free agent tracker app to know who you would see. While jersey sales may skyrocket, I think players moving teams even more is bad for the game. A team can never establish an identity for fans to relate to, and the players become interchangeable. We mind as well have robots on magnets buzzing randomly around the field out there. I am still reeling from the Capitals not matching the offer sheet to Scott Stevens. Well, that time was before free agency, wasn't it? I only started understanding that these were actual people after free agency started. Before then they were just superheroes since I was six the last time we won anything. I never had duels except for HOFers, and there has never really been loyalty. If it's not the QB, then it's someone only a fan would like, such as Williams or Cooley or Sean. There's not enough time or benefit to getting invested into anyone else. The thing is that people are just after making more and more money. I can't blame them, but I don't like it. It's just like the banking industry where, if you want to make more money, then being a company man is the worst choice possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 So....still no actual word from Trent's camp, and no real news from Redskins park except that he wouldnt be practicing anyways because of injuries... All we have is fans bickering about cutting him, selfishness, pay him, front office incompetence, oh and the occasional post from KC leg humpers. Do I have all that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Reparations Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 This could potentially be my least favorite thread ever on ES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, Redskins Reparations said: This could potentially be my least favorite thread ever on ES. Found the guy who hasn't been in a gameday thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Reparations Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Just now, NewCliche21 said: Found the guy who hasn't been in a gameday thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Well this is, uh...interesting...three different medical/training/whatever staff combinations in the last 3-4 years, I think? Related to all the injury/medical staff/complaining players talk: After injury-marred 2018 season, Eagles shake up medical staff once again The Eagles made key changes to their medical staff this offseason after an injury-marred 2018 season, NFL sources said Tuesday. They parted ways with head physical and internist Stephen Stache and hired Arsh Dhanota to be their chief medical officer. [...]Stache held the job for just one season, after the Eagles turned over their medical staff leadership in the aftermath of their Super Bowl victory in February 2018. They let head physician Peter DeLuca and head internist Gary Dorshimer leave and fired head trainer Chris Peduzzi, after each had worked for the organization for around 20 years. The team endured a 57-percent increase in regular-season games in which their players were lost to injury last season. Overall, the Eagles had 28 players miss 221 games to injury. The players were either on the 53-man roster at some point during the season, on some form of injured reserve, or on the physically unable to perform list. In 2017, the Eagles had 23 players miss 126 games to injury. Of the 28 players who missed time, a significant number experienced abnormal recovery, which increasingly raised questions about how the Eagles were treating their injured. While Eagles executive Howie Roseman cited the disproportionate number of injuries as a prominent reason why the Eagles started last season 6-7 and ultimately fell short of repeating as Super Bowl champions, he defended the medical staff in January. “We put people in place that we have a lot of confidence in,” Roseman said then. "We have to allow them to grow in their jobs and continue to show faith in them, because we do have faith in them.” [...]Some players had lost confidence in the new medical staff, per team sources. For instance, several players still went to Dorhshimer for assistance in their recoveries. While seeking service or opinion outside the team isn’t unheard of, some players had specifically become frustrated by the Eagles’ staff, sources said. https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/eagles-medical-staff-shakeup-arsh-dhanota-20190611.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Galdi kept replaying a clip from yesterday where Doc had Doug on his show. Doc asked Doug if Trent was going to be fined for not showing up to OTA's and Doug responded that he wasn't sure Trent wasn't there due to his contract, or something of that nature. Personally, I don't put much credence in anything Doug says, as he's not the most prepared or polished when a mic is in his face. Still a lot in the dark on this one and imagine it's going to stay that way until camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 On 6/11/2019 at 5:19 AM, NewCliche21 said: The Kirk signing was just as bad for the market as the Osweiler signing that the Texans did. Completely reset the market. Now everything is going to be guaranteed. I don't know why any player would accept less. I'll at least get to tell my kids stories of when players didn't get tenure. I disagree that Kirk was bad for the market, but rather he was an anomaly. He was a top 15 QB who just turned 30 with a long track record of consistent performance and a clean bill of health. Those guys just don't hit free just agency often if at all. Typically teams need to give up a Jay Cutler type trade then they still give a massive extension. Osweiler had a grand total of 7 starts when he signed a big deal with Houston. They paid heavy on an unknown player based on what they feel he could be. That happens ofent in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Unbias said: I disagree that Kirk was bad for the market, but rather he was an anomaly. He was a top 15 QB who just turned 30 with a long track record of consistent performance and a clean bill of health. Those guys just don't hit free just agency often if at all. Typically teams need to give up a Jay Cutler type trade then they still give a massive extension. Osweiler had a grand total of 7 starts when he signed a big deal with Houston. They paid heavy on an unknown player based on what they feel he could be. That happens ofent in the NFL. Kirk set the market. The highest contract at the position always sets the floor for the next guy. Cutler is effectively an eternity ago. Once you open the Pandora's box of full guarantees, that's what you will have from here on out. See how ****ed we are with Alex Smith and guaranteed money? That is directly tied to previous contracts, which Kirk set with Minnesota. To be clear, that's not on Kirk, that's on Minny. In business there are no anomalies, there are only new normals. Oil being above $20 a barrel was unheard of and would NEVER happen, until the anomaly (war, housing bubble bursting) that caused prices to skyrocket to $150, which prevented oil from ever getting anywhere close to $20 a barrel again. It sits at around $50 now, and that's the new floor without a financial crisis. If the market dictates that you'll pay a lot, then you'll pay a lot. There's no anomaly there save for literally Tom Brady. It doesn't matter why Houston paid Osweiller anything; they put that kind of contract on the books, and every subsequent contract came from that, including Kirk's. If they're giving another player guaranteed money, then why would you accept less? That's horrendous business. Another example: Team A pays for a top-tier cornerback with $30 million guaranteed As the next top-tier cornerback, why would you settle for anything that has less than what the other guy got? Nobody would do that. Bringing it back to Trent, he's going to give zero effs about his current contract if he can get better and has all the leverage while starting to question his own longevity. Again, as a fan I hate it, as a businessman I'd lose respect if he didn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 On 6/6/2019 at 2:31 PM, Califan007 said: In this specific instance, absolutely NO explanation is needed or warranted at this time. None. And that is pretty much standard operating procedure with all teams in the NFL. You don't argue/explain in-house issues in the press, and you don't feel the need to clarify every twitter "report" simply because fans are getting antsy. Doing the first part could make matters worse between the FO and the player, and doing the second part will have you running your franchise like a reactionary chihuahua. Welp... https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/bruce-allen-trent-williams-holdout-i-know-what-truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExoDus84 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said: Welp... https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/bruce-allen-trent-williams-holdout-i-know-what-truth I sincerely hope somebody dumped out the gatorade in that bottle and replaced it with bull semen. I really hate that man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 I saw nothing welp worthy in there...no new insights..just more speculation on the writers part... Unless I missed something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said: Welp... https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/bruce-allen-trent-williams-holdout-i-know-what-truth What did he explain, exactly? I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, Califan007 said: What did he explain, exactly? I'll wait. I think he explained that this is being handled internally...I guess that's welp worthy for the chicken littles and front office haters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 28 minutes ago, Xameil said: I think he explained that this is being handled internally...I guess that's welp worthy for the chicken littles and front office haters.... I wish Gruden had said the same thing lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted June 12, 2019 Share Posted June 12, 2019 Here’s the play: -Gruden is the good guy lauding Trent for his talents in the media. Let the coaches message be the overriding narrative about Trent wander and bounce around on all mediums. -Bruce with support of Dan working behind the scenes to resolve the matter. **If it gets to one extreme or other: Trent agrees to an extension (press conference full of smiles) or Trent refusing to participate, the shot caller should present the facts. Not necessary now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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