Going Commando Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 16 hours ago, Warhead36 said: True enough, but you can say the same thing about drafting LT. I don't think any of the top notch OLs in the league have high 1sts invested in their OL except Dallas. I don't know if that is true. The best OLs tend to have invested some money and/or valuable draft capital in their OLs. It's really hard to constantly pull in diamonds in the rough and coach them up for a large position group like that. And it's also clear that the teams with the best OLs consistently win, and that when an OL degrades, it can undermine a formerly great team. It's not sexy, but one of the reasons why teams like the Titans are never left for dead is because a bruising OL and power run game paired with defense always works. And one of the reasons the Ravens got so good, so quickly, is because they have a lot of talent on their lines and a high level of investment in the OL in particular and finding a dynamic QB almost immediately put them over the top. I don't think LT needs to be any more expensive or highly drafted than your guards or right tackles though. I think the value of those four spots on the OL has leveled out, such that having an impact player at any of those spots is huge and worthy of investment. I also think center can be a high value position in certain schemes where they frequently single block 1 techs. Looking at our roster, our two clearest paths towards improvement are to upgrade the secondary and upgrade the offensive line. That's what I hope we get from this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 10 hours ago, joeken24 said: If he comes back, its actually a plus. He gets a whole year to recover and get healthy. you also gain more depth on the Oline which has been surprisingly healthy so far. As a matter of fact, the left guard position is no longer a position of need IMO. Haskins gets another year to get comfortable with the pass protections and it's not bad. Add a couple big body pass catchers (TEs) that can knock the snot out of someone on a block and ya never know. If Trent is back, then I gather at 32, we got 3-4 years more? My issue with him though is he missed at least 4 games a year. The only thing I'd like about it is you aren't pigeonholed to add to the O line at LT specifically. For example no way I'd take Andrew Thomas over Chase Young if that opportunity presented itself. I'd take Thomas though over Jeudy. I hate using the draft to pigeonhole need so Trent would loosen that up some. Having said that, if you draft Thomas in the first and get a 2nd (I think that's the best we'd do now for Trent after Bruce flubbed things) you can take someone potentially like Devonta Smith. Then you got a stronger young nucleus. The more I think about it, I can see Chase Young ending a Giant and there would be more football poetry for that to happen than him ending here. The Giants do the superstar drill. Young fits the mode of fans around the country wearing his jersey like a Bechkam in his day and Barkley now. That's not a Redskins thing save RG3 in 2012. And the Giants have that legacy of killer defensive players. Not us. There seems to be a more flow-symmetry to Chase wearing Giants blue sadly than a Redskins jersey. Hope I am wrong. But there seems to be some inevitability for him to end up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: If Trent is back, then I gather at 32, we got 3-4 years more? My issue with him though is he missed at least 4 games a year. The only thing I'd like about it is you aren't pigeonholed to add to the O line at LT specifically. For example no way I'd take Andrew Thomas over Chase Young if that opportunity presented itself. I'd take Thomas though over Jeudy. I hate using the draft to pigeonhole need so Trent would loosen that up some. Having said that, if you draft Thomas in the first and get a 2nd (I think that's the best we'd do now for Trent after Bruce flubbed things) you can take someone potentially like Devonta Smith. Then you got a stronger young nucleus. The more I think about it, I can see Chase Young ending a Giant and there would be more football poetry for that to happen than him ending here. The Giants do the superstar drill. Young fits the mode of fans around the country wearing his jersey like a Bechkam in his day and Barkley now. That's not a Redskins thing save RG3 in 2012. And the Giants have that legacy of killer defensive players. Not us. There seems to be a more flow-symmetry to Chase wearing Giants blue sadly than a Redskins jersey. Hope I am wrong. But there seems to be some inevitability for him to end up there. We'll see. Chase Young is a DeMatha/Hyattsville product. I'd be curious to see if he's a Redskins fan. Right now, I think the Redskins would have the pick before the Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 We can never trust Trent again. We've got to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: We can never trust Trent again. We've got to move on. Trust ain't got nothin' to do with it, IMO. I'd trust Trent over Bruce any day. That fact that the Redskins are playing without him says to me that its not earth shattering if he returns and it doesn't work out. The left side of the line is doing pretty good. The sacks will decrease as Haskins, the skill guys and the line get more experience. It's get even better if they can get upgrades at the TE position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: The Giants do the superstar drill. They were better when they were a blue-collar trench warfare team led by the likes of Tuck/Strahan/Umenyiora on defense and Snee/O'Hara/Diehl on offense. Brandon Jacobs and Shockey as their key skill guys tells you who they were as a team. The Ravens and Steelers have run great teams with a similar kind of indentity. And they are highly successful selling their product because they win. I would much rather build that kind of team than the starry trash that the Giants have put on the field for most of the past five years. That's why I am strongly in favor of trading down to accumulate extra picks in the top 50. Look at our roster and it's led by blue collar types: Collins, Payne, Kerrigan, Allen, Ioannidis on defense. Perhaps Anderson coming into his own as a leader down the line. Offense led by Scherff and now McLaurin and hopefully the likes of Guice and Love. Haskins is a high end talent but not really a flashy, starry player at the position like Mahomes/Mayfield/Watson/Jackson/Murray. More of a big workhorse quarterback who is built to grind out games for a cold weather grass team like us. I think we have a natural identity that we need to be building upon. We need aggressive, long-armed, thumping defensive backs like the Ravens and Packers and Patriots accumulated. We need high end offensive line talent to form a tone setting unit that can be the heart of the team. And we need more blue collar receivers like McLaurin and Harmon that do dirty work like blocking outside runs. 7 minutes ago, joeken24 said: Trust ain't got nothin' to do with it, IMO. I'd trust Trent over Bruce any day. That fact that the Redskins are playing without him says to me that its not earth shattering if he returns and it doesn't work out. The left side of the line is doing pretty good. The sacks will decrease as Haskins, the skill guys and the line get more experience. It's get even better if they can get upgrades at the TE position. Trent ****ed us this season. There is no mitigating or denying that. We'd be fools to think we can go into next year counting on him to start for us. The left side of the line is being held together with duct tape and high level coaching. It's been barely adequate and the offense as a whole has been crap this season. We've got a young QB we need to be developing, and that means we need a legitimately good OL. We need long term answers at LT and LG and that means trading Trent and drafting replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: They were better when they were a blue-collar trench warfare team led by the likes of Tuck/Strahan/Umenyiora on defense and Snee/O'Hara/Diehl on offense. Brandon Jacobs and Shockey as their key skill guys tells you who they were as a team. The Ravens and Steelers have run great teams with a similar kind of indentity. And they are highly successful selling their product because they win. I would much rather build that kind of team than the starry trash that the Giants have put on the field for most of the past five years. That's why I am strongly in favor of trading down to accumulate extra picks in the top 50. Look at our roster and it's led by blue collar types: Collins, Payne, Kerrigan, Allen, Ioannidis on defense. Perhaps Anderson coming into his own as a leader down the line. Offense led by Scherff and now McLaurin and hopefully the likes of Guice and Love. Haskins is a high end talent but not really a flashy, starry player at the position like Mahomes/Mayfield/Watson/Jackson/Murray. More of a big workhorse quarterback who is built to grind out games for a cold weather grass team like us. I think we have a natural identity that we need to be building upon. We need aggressive, long-armed, thumping defensive backs like the Ravens and Packers and Patriots accumulated. We need high end offensive line talent to form a tone setting unit that can be the heart of the team. And we need more blue collar receivers like McLaurin and Harmon that do dirty work like blocking outside runs. Trent ****ed us this season. There is no mitigating or denying that. We'd be fools to think we can go into next year counting on him to start for us. The left side of the line is being held together with duct tape and high level coaching. It's been barely adequate and the offense as a whole has been crap this season. We've got a young QB we need to be developing, and that means we need a legitimately good OL. We need long term answers at LT and LG and that means trading Trent and drafting replacements. No sure about Trent ****ed us piece. The man had cancer and couldn't put a helmet on. He wouldn't have been able to play this year based on his condition. I really wouldn't mind actually seeing his head. I've heard Smoot and Tana talk about it. Not good. The media frenzy, to include Trent's interview was irrelevant from a football standpoint. IMO he didn't **** the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, joeken24 said: No sure about Trent ****ed us piece. The man had cancer and couldn't put a helmet on. He wouldn't have been able to play this year based on his condition. I really wouldn't mind actually seeing his head. I've heard Smoot and Tana talk about it. Not good. The media frenzy, to include Trent's interview was irrelevant from a football standpoint. IMO he didn't **** the team. He held out on us as a form of personal revenge and demanded that we either trade or cut him. And he didn't announce he was doing so until June. If Trent had wanted to play, he would have played. He didn't even show up to the facility until the absolute last moment he could to get credit for the season. Making excuses for him strikes me as delusional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 52 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: He held out on us as a form of personal revenge and demanded that we either trade or cut him. And he didn't announce he was doing so until June. If Trent had wanted to play, he would have played. He didn't even show up to the facility until the absolute last moment he could to get credit for the season. Making excuses for him strikes me as delusional. Theres no way in God's Green Earth I go into next season thinking Trent will play for us ever again. Specific to this thread, now is the time to pick his replacement. The idea of him coming back to play LG is dead to me as well jus before that comes up again with the resurrection of Flowers. Theres wishful thinking, then theres Steve trying to save yall from yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 39 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: They were better when they were a blue-collar trench warfare team led by the likes of Tuck/Strahan/Umenyiora on defense and Snee/O'Hara/Diehl on offense. Brandon Jacobs and Shockey as their key skill guys tells you who they were as a team. Yeah but Strahan was a star, top player at his position. They had Osi, Strahan, Tuck who were all bigger names than any pass rusher we had at the time. By star, I don't necessarily mean that in a pure sense of them having an exciting personality but top player or top 2 at their position. But I agree they had both a good O line and killer D line. I don't think it has to be one or the other. Not saying you are saying otherwise. You can have a big time O line and also a killer star player or two in the mix who are game breakers. 39 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Look at our roster and it's led by blue collar types: Collins, Payne, Kerrigan, Allen, Ioannidis on defense. Perhaps Anderson coming into his own as a leader down the line. Offense led by Scherff and now McLaurin and hopefully the likes of Guice and Love. Haskins is a high end talent but not really a flashy, starry player at the position like Mahomes/Mayfield/Watson/Jackson/Murray. More of a big workhorse quarterback who is built to grind out games for a cold weather grass team like us. As for Haskins, will see -- got my fingers crossed. Guice showed the flashes yesterday why I had a shrine for that dude on the 2017 and 2018 draft threads. Hopefully he keeps it going. Love obviously I am excited about too but he's also unproven. As for Harmon and McLaurin yeah I liked what I've seen. I am somewhat personally invested in some of our young stars because I liked-loved them in college or in the pre-draft process like you are with Haskins. So I am jazzed. But I am an easy sell. I am hardcore like all of us here. 😀 The team is bleeding fans and yeah I do think a Chase Young type would do more to generate excitement than Andrew Thomas. I also think Chase is the better player. And I know you agree. So it would be a win win I think for the organization. I do think the Giants still draw fans and we don't in part because of their star power. Some of the more casual and younger fans seem interested in seeing stars especially if the team isn't that hot. We had a dose of that in 2012, I recall a Pittsburgh media guy at the time was saying even some fans he knew in Pittsburgh wanted to go to see RG3 play. We don't really have national name brand players like that. I think Chase would be a guy like that potentially. And I am not saying you can't win without it. But for the most part we haven't won without it. And my point is the Giants are used to having national draws. Us not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: IMO Chase Young (elite player) is by a nice margin better than Andrew Thomas (very good player) so I don't think its an apples to apples conversation anyway I agree with this. I think Young is in the top tier with Tua and Burrow and that there is a next tier of guys like Lamb/Jeudy/Okudah/Brown/Simmons before we get to Thomas in that third tier with Fulton/Epenesa/Wirfs/Etienne/Swift/Higgins/Henderson/Diggs. I've seen Sam Cosmi and Creed Humphrey being projected into this year's class too, and if that happened, that would make Thomas go from best to the third best lineman in the class for me. I don't think that's going to happen though. I will say this against Chase Young--I think the hype has gotten ridiculous with him and needs to come back down to Earth a bit. It troubles me that so much of it is based on a trash Wisconsin offense trying to block him on long developing passes with a tight end. He's a great prospect. Arguably the best edge prospect since Khalil Mack. But like Mack, he's no football messiah. Mack been one of the best players in the NFL the past five years and only two of his teams were any good. I'm a believer in Kyle Smith and I think you are too. Thus I think our best possible move is to trade down and give him building materials. The demand might not be there to actually do it, but if it is, I'd like to pull the trigger on trade downs. Raiders would be the best candidates. If we could get two teens picks, we could use one of them to hop down a second time into the 20s and add a second rounder. Then trade Trent for another second (I'm still not ruling out a first as a potential return). With that cluster of picks you could get: Teens - your high upside project offensive lineman like Wirfs or Jackson Twenties - a defensive back like Diggs or Henderson Round 2 - a stud running back like Najee/Taylor/Etienne/Swift as not all of them will go first in the first. OR perhaps even better, you could get one of the stud receivers who will get pushed into the second round like Jefferson/Smith/Hodgins/Shenault/Johnson Round 2 - another DB like Jaylon Johnson would be ideal. Should be some good BPA candidate defensive players like Anfernee Jennings and Xavier McKinney on the board still. To me a haul like Jackson/Diggs/Hodgins/Johnson would easily top the value of any single first round pick we could make, including Chase Young. And regardless of what we do with the first, I am in 100% agreement with you that Trent needs to be traded and a second round offer would get me to pull the trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I agree with this. I think Young is in the top tier with Tua and Burrow and that there is a next tier of guys like Lamb/Jeudy/Okudah/Brown/Simmons before we get to Thomas in that third tier with Fulton/Epenesa/Wirfs/Etienne/Swift/Higgins/Henderson/Diggs. I haven't watched Thomas since early this season. So you think he's lower than the receivers? Interesting. Lets say you didn't trade down and are stuck right now at 3. Who would you take? 2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I'm a believer in Kyle Smith and I think you are too. Thus I think our best possible move is to trade down and give him building materials. The demand might not be there to actually do it, but if it is, I'd like to pull the trigger on trade downs. Raiders would be the best candidates. If we could get two teens picks, we could use one of them to hop down a second time into the 20s and add a second rounder. Then trade Trent for another second (I'm still not ruling out a first as a potential return). With that cluster of picks you could get: Yep. I do trust Kyle. I love the idea of trading down as long as Chase is already gone. 3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Round 2 - a stud running back like Najee/Taylor/Etienne/Swift as not all of them will go first in the first. OR perhaps even better, you could get one of the stud receivers who will get pushed into the second round like Jefferson/Smith/Hodgins/Shenault/Johnson I love some of those running backs. Love this draft period for RB. And I am a BPA guy. But are we already too loaded at RB with Love, Guice and possibly Peterson? 4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: To me a haul like Jackson/Diggs/Hodgins/Johnson would easily top the value of any single first round pick we could make, including Chase Young. And regardless of what we do with the first, I am in 100% agreement with you that Trent needs to be traded and a second round offer would get me to pull the trigger. I agree with every point except the Chase Young one, I wouldn't trade down. I just think he will make our d line come alive just like Nick Bosa did in SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panninho Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said: I love some of those running backs. Love this draft period for RB. And I am a BPA guy. But are we already too loaded at RB with Love, Guice and possibly Peterson? I tend to agree. It would be hard to pass one of Etienne/Swift/Taylor but who would you play once Love is healthy? On the other hand, while I really liked Love in college, I find it a bit worrying to go in the season with Love and Guice (who both have to prove they can stay healthy) and an old Peterson if you can have one of those studs. At some points you have to take risks though, so I'd much rather go after a TE if there is one available in that range or trade down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: He held out on us as a form of personal revenge and demanded that we either trade or cut him. And he didn't announce he was doing so until June. If Trent had wanted to play, he would have played. He didn't even show up to the facility until the absolute last moment he could to get credit for the season. Making excuses for him strikes me as delusional. Us? ok.... So maybe I'll start using delusional instead of sheep moving forward..... Again, the man had cancer and would not have been able to play anyway. Your entire argument is actually defending Bruce's actions in this fiasco which has not really been exposed. Further if you look at this season or any other season for that matter, Trent's presence never made a difference in a Gruden run offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said: I haven't watched Thomas since early this season. So you think he's lower than the receivers? Interesting. Lets say you didn't trade down and are stuck right now at 3. Who would you take? I think Lamb and Jeudy are better than Thomas. Those guys are gamers and future stars in the NFL IMO. They don't ever play passive. Jeudy isn't nearly the physical talent that Thomas is, but he's one of those guys who is more than the sum of his parts because of his high skill levels. I think Calvin Ridley is a realistic floor for him. If I were stuck at three, I would flip a coin and pick Simmons or Lamb. Like you I prefer Lamb over Jeudy. Simmons is probably the best bet to give you a huge return because he's the highest upside guy of the tier two players. He's like Chase Young and Thomas in that he's a 99.99 percentile athlete. The position value of stack linebacker in the top ten is terrible, but he has unique value as a supplemental edge rusher. He could give our edge rush a big boost by joining the edge committee we've built. I could also have him press slot receivers and tight ends with those ridiculous arms and man cover skills. Plus he can do the traditional blue chip linebacker stuff like being a terrifying alley defender and setting the edge and playing in pursuit. He's like a big ass defensive end who can cover and should be thought of as being in the same physical class as Young and Thomas. Thomas is a high upside project so the value wouldn't be hateful in the top five. He's just not as good as those second tier guys are IMO. I'll say this though... I would probably violate BPA and pick him over Derrick Brown. Spending a top five pick on another interior DL would give us some serious cap challenges given the current roster construction. 9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I love some of those running backs. Love this draft period for RB. And I am a BPA guy. But are we already too loaded at RB with Love, Guice and possibly Peterson? RB is one of the best position groups in the class IMO. It has very high day one and day two value. I think we can afford to spend a second or third on a back. We need to move on from Peterson and Thompson IMO. I'm a Bryce Love stan but he wouldn't get me to pass over a back in the draft because we don't know what he's going to be going forward. This is a truly special first tier of backs with those four guys (Harris/Etienne/Swift/Taylor). The next tier is really exciting as well with Moss/Dobbins/Hubbard/Dillon/Edwards-Helaire. You're going to be getting value at RB in the third and fourth. To me, Guice + Love + Swift/Harris/Taylor/Etienne is the perfect running back group on paper. That would be three premier talents at the position. It'd be giving Haskins a stable to work with, which would be a major boon in the early stages of his career. We could shape our identity around the run game. And it'd insulate us against Love being a bust and Guice missing more time. But even if we can't afford to get an elite top 50 back like Harris/Etienne/Taylor/Swift, we could still do extremely well with someone like Dillon or Moss in the third, who are just a notch below premium. Guice as the lead back and Moss spelling him and Love as the change of pace guy and five wide/motion guy is an awesome rotation. 23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I agree with every point except the Chase Young one, I wouldn't trade down. I just think he will make our d line come alive just like Nick Bosa did in SF. I think Bosa is getting too much individual credit for the 49ers improvement this year. That front is loaded with blue chippers like Armstead and Ford and Buckner. I don't think one player is ever capable of making a dominant front, San Francisco has a platoon of great players on that side of the ball. Young would be a tremendous weapon, but I would rather get a bunch of really good players than just one great one. Give me a secondary with four really good corners plus Collins that can play the run and man cover at a high level and give me a competent ball control offense and I think we could run a really strong defense too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I'm a believer in Kyle Smith and I think you are too. Thus I think our best possible move is to trade down and give him building materials. The demand might not be there to actually do it, but if it is, I'd like to pull the trigger on trade downs. Raiders would be the best candidates. If we could get two teens picks, we could use one of them to hop down a second time into the 20s and add a second rounder. Then trade Trent for another second (I'm still not ruling out a first as a potential return). With that cluster of picks you could get: there are not many people that I would be upset saying Goodbye to in the front office, and he's on that short list. Schaffer as well. I would almost look to elevate Schaffer to GM and have Smith be VP of Player Personnel. I think Smith has actually put together some really good drafts, with A LOT of later round talent having meaningful contributions.... especially in the 2 years that he's held the title of Director of College Scouting. Now i don't know that he's the one actually making those picks, but I have to believe he was a part of the process. Even if he was not in charge of the scouting group when Ioannidis was taken, he was in the room. That said, there is hesitation as both of those guys have been in Ashburn for a while so there is the fear that they would continue the Dan Snyder culture, but the thought that they could also be 'controllable' by Snyder if he felt necessary because they already have a relationship with the team. A large part of me wants a ground up renovation, while another part of me likes some of the pieces we have and want's to see what they can do with the correct responsibility / leadership in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Wonsley Posse Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Bruce will **** it up anyway so what does it matter? Still same BS management Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I think Lamb and Jeudy are better than Thomas. Those guys are gamers and future stars in the NFL IMO. They don't ever play passive. Jeudy isn't nearly the physical talent that Thomas is, but he's one of those guys who is more than the sum of his parts because of his high skill levels. I think Calvin Ridley is a realistic floor for him. Yeah it wouldn't shock me if Lamb goes higher than Jeudy if their 40 times end up comparable. I like Lamb more as to contested catches and even though I am guessing he's a tad slower than Jeudy he might be more elusive and harder to bring down in open field. 55 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: If I were stuck at three, I would flip a coin and pick Simmons or Lamb. Like you I prefer Lamb over Jeudy. Simmons is probably the best bet to give you a huge return because he's the highest upside guy of the tier two players. I was really intrigued by James and Fitzpatrick in 2018 so Simmons gets my attention, too. To me he's more similar to James than Fitzpatrick. I'd love him on a team with an inventive D coordinator. Hopefully we get an inventive D coordinator. 55 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Thomas is a high upside project so the value wouldn't be hateful in the top five. He's just not as good as those second tier guys are IMO. I'll say this though... I would probably violate BPA and pick him over Derrick Brown. Spending a top five pick on another interior DL would give us some serious cap challenges given the current roster construction. Brown looks like a beast, he certainly wreaked havoc last Saturday versus Alabama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: I was really intrigued by James and Fitzpatrick in 2018 so Simmons gets my attention, too. To me he's more similar to James than Fitzpatrick. I'd love him on a team with an inventive D coordinator. Hopefully we get an inventive D coordinator. Simmons is a different animal from them. He is legit defensive end sized and could play the position full time. He could get almost as big as Montez by the time he's finished growing. He'll end up at OLB in the NFL rather than play primarily as a safety or slot corner. He's a much more rare and spectacular physical specimen than James and Fitzpatrick and has more versatility and value than them, and he'll get picked earlier than them. He's an original talent. There haven't been DE sized edge players with legit downfield man coverage skills before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 12 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Simmons is a different animal from them. He is legit defensive end sized and could play the position full time. He could get almost as big as Montez by the time he's finished growing. He'll end up at OLB in the NFL rather than play primarily as a safety or slot corner. He's a much more rare and spectacular physical specimen than James and Fitzpatrick and has more versatility and value than them, and he'll get picked earlier than them. He's an original talent. There haven't been DE sized edge players with legit downfield man coverage skills before. He's tall and lanky, a bit undersized for Mike MLB or DE. Right size for a SS but maybe a little big for it -- though he's played safety and he's fluid and quick enough to play it. He's the right size for weak side MLB in a 3-4 or OLB in a 4-3. He's good at rushing the passer, I agree, and have mentioned the same. I think he's an interesting movable chess piece. A creative defensive coordinator could have lots of fun with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I'd add I can definitely dig Simmons over Andrew Thomas and Lamb, etc. But I'd certainly want a D coordinator who would creatively use him. I think someone like Manusky would waste him. The more I think about it, yeah I probably would go right now Simmons as the guy after Young. Not sure if this FO would though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I'd add I can definitely dig Simmons over Andrew Thomas and Lamb, etc. But I'd certainly want a D coordinator who would creatively use him. I think someone like Manusky would waste him. Oh, that makes me think of Brian Urlacher or Derrick Brooks. Rangy LB's that can make the Tampa 2 defense elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said: Oh, that makes me think of Brian Urlacher or Derrick Brooks. Rangy LB's that can make the Tampa 2 defense elite. Yeah Tampa 2 clearly depends on a MLB who can cover. Holcomb looks like a keeper but right now he is about stopping the run and isn't hot at covering. Ditto Bostic. Simmons is intriguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Finding LB that excellent in both pass and run defense is a rarity. No shame in being good at just one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I don't know if that is true. The best OLs tend to have invested some money and/or valuable draft capital in their OLs. It's really hard to constantly pull in diamonds in the rough and coach them up for a large position group like that. And it's also clear that the teams with the best OLs consistently win, and that when an OL degrades, it can undermine a formerly great team. It's not sexy, but one of the reasons why teams like the Titans are never left for dead is because a bruising OL and power run game paired with defense always works. And one of the reasons the Ravens got so good, so quickly, is because they have a lot of talent on their lines and a high level of investment in the OL in particular and finding a dynamic QB almost immediately put them over the top. I don't think LT needs to be any more expensive or highly drafted than your guards or right tackles though. I think the value of those four spots on the OL has leveled out, such that having an impact player at any of those spots is huge and worthy of investment. I also think center can be a high value position in certain schemes where they frequently single block 1 techs. Looking at our roster, our two clearest paths towards improvement are to upgrade the secondary and upgrade the offensive line. That's what I hope we get from this draft. In most cases this is very true, but I can give you an instance where it isn't. LT, Ronnie Stanley 1st round pick LG, Bradley Bozeman 6th round pick C, Matt Skura UDFA and backup C now starting UDFA Patrick Mekari RG, Marshall Yanda 3rd round RT, Orlando Brown Jr. 3rd round Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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