hogdirty Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, carex said: not for us, we're barely ever in the base 3-4 and when we got to nickel we put Kerrigan and Smith or whoever is the other LB at ends, meaning Ionaddis, Payne or Allen come out Well explain this to me. If Skins are in nickel and Kerrigan and Smith are playing ends and Payne, Allen, and Ionaddis are out who is playing tackle??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 29 minutes ago, hogdirty said: I will not comment on the man's IQ, but if you feel the rest to be true than how can you argue they were playing him out of position? Not they were playing him out of position - he was out of position, meaning he consistently blew assignments because he didn't know where he was supposed to be on any given play call. There's a hysterical radio interview somewhere with Armstead and Trotter where they rip on him for about twenty minutes straight for how clueless he was on the field, and yet how inattentive he was during team meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogdirty Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said: Not they were playing him out of position - he was out of position, meaning he consistently blew assignments because he didn't know where he was supposed to be on any given play call. There's a hysterical radio interview somewhere with Armstead and Trotter where they rip on him for about twenty minutes straight for how clueless he was on the field, and yet how inattentive he was during team meetings. What was your point again? My point was he would be better as a 3-4 OLB playing towards his strengths your comments even back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 21 minutes ago, hogdirty said: Well explain this to me. If Skins are in nickel and Kerrigan and Smith are playing ends and Payne, Allen, and Ionaddis are out who is playing tackle??? I said or, OR. One of the three comes out, not all of them. In the 4-3 I'm proposing all three of them would be in most of the time. Obviously there's still some rotation, giving guys a breather Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogdirty Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, carex said: I said or, OR. One of the three comes out, not all of them. In the 4-3 I'm proposing all three of them would be in most of the time. Obviously there's still some rotation, giving guys a breather Allen and Ionnadis are not 4-3 DEs. Playcalling is more of an issue. 3-4 teams are better when they are more of an aggressive/attacking defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 The only guy who doesn't fit a 4-3 better is Ioannidis, simply because he doesn't have a position. He is actually optimal trade bait - 1) he has shown he is injury prone, 2) he is in the last year of his deal and is going to get very expensive & 3) has shown inconsistency (no sacks since the Giants game). It'd be worth looking into whether a player for player trade can be made for someone that can help in the secondary...maybe Jalen Ramsey RDE: Open - would need to grab someone in the 270-280 range as the guy who plays this side is traditionally more of a runstuffer (these guys are Renaldo Wynn / Philip Daniels types and are generally cheap) DT; Payne / Settle DT: Allen / Brantley LDE: Kerrigan / McKinzy WLB: R. Foster / Harvey-Clemons MLB: Hamilton / Vigil SLB: Anderson / ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 He looks tiny. Like a WR, and not even a plus sized WR. Extremely fast around the edge, and great bend, but no speed to power. He looks tiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal2856 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 4 hours ago, method man said: The only guy who doesn't fit a 4-3 better is Ioannidis, simply because he doesn't have a position. He is actually optimal trade bait - 1) he has shown he is injury prone, 2) he is in the last year of his deal and is going to get very expensive & 3) has shown inconsistency (no sacks since the Giants game). It'd be worth looking into whether a player for player trade can be made for someone that can help in the secondary...maybe Jalen Ramsey RDE: Open - would need to grab someone in the 270-280 range as the guy who plays this side is traditionally more of a runstuffer (these guys are Renaldo Wynn / Philip Daniels types and are generally cheap) DT; Payne / Settle DT: Allen / Brantley LDE: Kerrigan / McKinzy WLB: R. Foster / Harvey-Clemons MLB: Hamilton / Vigil SLB: Anderson / ? But do you feel we are better enough making this switch? Or are we making too many players play out of position. Could Allen as DT next to Payne be the second coming of Sapp/McDougald in Tampa’s hay day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 15 minutes ago, Hal2856 said: But do you feel we are better enough making this switch? Or are we making too many players play out of position. Could Allen as DT next to Payne be the second coming of Sapp/McDougald in Tampa’s hay day? I think you are thinking Sapp / Booger haha and yes. I think the guys that are significantly better off in a 4-3 are Allen, Payne, Kerrigan and Anderson. Payne & Allen because combined they will face fewer double teams. Kerrigan is at his best rushing the passer - he is not a good run defender or in coverage so let him focus on what he does best. Anderson would be better off as a SLB in a 4-3 - he is a high football IQ assignment based player with average athleticism. He's better off spending more of his time defending the run / focusing on covering TEs than rushing the passer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal2856 Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, method man said: I think you are thinking Sapp / Booger haha and yes. I think the guys that are significantly better off in a 4-3 are Allen, Payne, Kerrigan and Anderson. Payne & Allen because combined they will face fewer double teams. Kerrigan is at his best rushing the passer - he is not a good run defender or in coverage so let him focus on what he does best. Anderson would be better off as a SLB in a 4-3 - he is a high football IQ assignment based player with average athleticism. He's better off spending more of his time defending the run / focusing on covering TEs than rushing the passer But you Ionidis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Ionnaidis was probably our best DL this year before he got injured. I don't think it was a coincidence that our defense's decline occurred right after he was slowed by injury. I don't see how one injury earns the designation as injury prone. If anything, I could see using a version of the Vikings "Williams Brothers" era 4-3 or Chicago's Ted Washington/Sam Adams 4-3 they used during the Urlacher era with Payne and Settle as our version of the Beef Brothers and Ion man and Allen at DE, with Kerrigan at WIL. Question is, who would be our stud MLB going sideline to sideline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I think Ion and Allen can play 4-3 DE just fine, but wouldn't be the explosive quick pass rusher. I don't think either Kerrigan or Smith are full time 4-3 starting DEs though, and Kerrigan is too expensive to be a rotational pass rush specialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 The guys we have now are really suited more for a 3-4 base as opposed to a 4-3 base. IMO anyone talking about putting Allen in at 4-3 DE hasn't watched enough college tape of him. I saw him at 4-3 DE on some snaps in his game cut ups at Alabama and he was quite noticeably less effective when lining up at 5 or 7 tech than when lining up at 3 tech, especially when pass rushing. He just doesn't have the first step or loose hips to bend the edge and beat Tackles that way; he was pretty easily stonewalled by good LTs and rendered ineffective. Same thing with Ioannidis. You'd be taking two top tier interior DL guys and wasting their talents as much as possible. Including Settle who showed some serious flashes, we finally have a whole stable of young and talented guys who are ideally suited for DL duties in a 3-4 and we now want to move away from that base? Either way, some of this is relatively moot. As others have pointed out, we're rarely in a pure 3-4 base as we line up in nickel very often and run lots of Under fronts that are generally pretty indistinguishable from a 4-3. Our defensive front is really good right now so I don't see a reason to mess with it. ILB is a bigger worry but if SDH stays healthy and continues to improve and Reuben Foster ends up playing for us we could have one of the most dominant front seven in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Speed and athleticism are the biggest no-shows at LB right now. Against the run they're good at slowing/stopping, but in passing downs, no. With the league going more and more pass happy, this becomes an easy target for opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 5:08 PM, hogdirty said: Allen and Ionnadis are not 4-3 DEs. Playcalling is more of an issue. 3-4 teams are better when they are more of an aggressive/attacking defense Shift the SAM onto the LOS in a 4-3 under. Now you have a five man front: Kerrigan, Allen, Payne, Ion, SAM in a 4-3 personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 17 hours ago, Warhead36 said: I think Ion and Allen can play 4-3 DE just fine, but wouldn't be the explosive quick pass rusher. I don't think either Kerrigan or Smith are full time 4-3 starting DEs though, and Kerrigan is too expensive to be a rotational pass rush specialist. Kerrigan was made to play LDE. That's what he was projected as out of college and he would be great in that role. I would argue that he already mostly plays that role, since we mostly line up in a 4-2-5. How often does Kerrigan drop into coverage, or play in a two point stance. Is that his strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogdirty Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 6 hours ago, KDawg said: Shift the SAM onto the LOS in a 4-3 under. Now you have a five man front: Kerrigan, Allen, Payne, Ion, SAM in a 4-3 personnel. You just described their current base defense. SAM/3-4 OLB are Smith, Anderson, or Mcphee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 40 minutes ago, hogdirty said: You just described their current base defense. SAM/3-4 OLB are Smith, Anderson, or Mcphee Arent you saying Allen, Payne, Ion aren’t on the field at the same time in our D? I’m confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogdirty Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 10 minutes ago, KDawg said: Arent you saying Allen, Payne, Ion aren’t on the field at the same time in our D? I’m confused. I never said that. I would prefer they be on the field as much as possible since it took the Skins so long to get a line this good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogdirty Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Take a look at how Melvin Ingrim is playing in this BALvsLAC game. He's excellent in the pass rush and stopping the run. I was hopping when Ryan Anderson was drafted he would have this kind of impact because he is really are only true 3-4 OLB. The 3-4 allows your defense to be versatile and aggressive but if you don't call those plays you won't get the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 On 1/5/2019 at 1:00 PM, Riggo-toni said: If anything, I could see using a version of the Vikings "Williams Brothers" era 4-3 or Chicago's Ted Washington/Sam Adams 4-3 they used during the Urlacher era with Payne and Settle as our version of the Beef Brothers and Ion man and Allen at DE, with Kerrigan at WIL. Question is, who would be our stud MLB going sideline to sideline? Easily the slowest front-7 in NFL history Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 No argument here on that. I wasn't necessarily advocating that approach, just thinking out loud, and I did make the qualifier that we would need a fast sideline to sideline MLB, which we don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darc Requiem Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Not really sure why this is a topic of discussion anymore. We have four down lineman on about 70% of our snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 3 hours ago, KDawg said: Arent you saying Allen, Payne, Ion aren’t on the field at the same time in our D? I’m confused. they are in the base. we're rarely in the base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 29 minutes ago, carex said: they are in the base. we're rarely in the base 4-3 under isn't our base and they're on the field at the same time in that package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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