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The Washington Nationals Thread: The Future is Near!

Riggo#44

By Riggo#44
in The Tailgate

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Commander -JB-

Commander -JB-

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Not sure why you guys are upset, Rizzo said last week they can only keep one between Stras and Rendon.  They obviously made their choice.  Did any of you really think they were going to keep both?

 

I hope Rendon goes on to have a great career and makes it to the HoF but I don't think he's interested in winning.  He's implied what he wants, nice weather and to get paid.  He got a ring, cross that off the list...cash in, play in nice weather, set his family up for life.

 

I don't know what the hell the Angels are thinking, they need pitching not a stud 3rd baseman.  This move makes no sense for them.  

The Angels are the Redskins of baseball lolol Who is their owner?  He’s a schmuck whoever he is.

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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

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1 minute ago, -JB- said:

The Angels are the Redskins of baseball lolol Who is their owner?  He’s a schmuck whoever he is.

 

They are kinda, yeah.  Except they have the best player in the sport, one who'll probably be in the top 10 in history at this rate.  When the NFL top 100 list came out earlier this year I don't think there was a Redskin on it.

 

I was thinking about it last night, just straight up as a baseball fan I hate that they haven't been able to build around Trout.  It'll be a real shame if that guy goes his entire career playing for an organization no one really cares about...and they never figure out how to build around him, he makes a couple more playoff appearances and never wins a ring.  He would be the Ted Williams of this generation.

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StillUnknown

StillUnknown

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SemperFi Skins said:

I'm hoping we go after Arenado personally. I take him over Bryant. Rockies said they are listening to offers...

 

It would be really weird if they were in on Arenado. It probably takes 2 or 3 of our best prospects & Robles to get him. Doesnt make much sense to pass on Rendon then turnaround and pay Arenado slightly less per year while depleting a thin system.

 

Arenado may in fact be the better player of the two, but it would just be weird to make that change

Edited by StillUnknown
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Spaceman Spiff

Spaceman Spiff

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3 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

It would be really weird if they were in on Arenado. It probably takes 2 or 3 of our best prospects & Robles to get him. Doesnt make much sense to pass on Rendon then turnaround and pay Arenado slightly less per year while depleting a thin system.

 

Arenado may in fact be the better player of the two, but it would just be weird to make that change

 

.799 Career OPS outside of Coors while .995 at home.  His defense plays up no matter where he is, which is nice.  But I don't know if he's the player that Rendon is. 

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Mr. Sinister

Mr. Sinister

Posted
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1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Not sure why you guys are upset, Rizzo said last week they can only keep one between Stras and Rendon.  They obviously made their choice.  Did any of you really think they were going to keep both?

 

I hope Rendon goes on to have a great career and makes it to the HoF but I don't think he's interested in winning.  He's implied what he wants, nice weather and to get paid.  He got a ring, cross that off the list...cash in, play in nice weather, set his family up for life.

 

But I wasn't ready to say goodbye :(

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bearrock

bearrock

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It gets increasingly frustrating when people conflate your arguments with those of others because the net result of criticizing the Lerners are the same.

 

1) No the Lerners are not cheap.  There are cheap owners.  Lerners are not one of them.  That doesn't mean I can't say they should spend more in certain situations.

 

2) Mega contracts are not always a good idea.  You could say they usually aren't.  But sometimes they are good.  I'm saying if you are willing to offer 7/215 for Rendon and the only thing standing in the way of 7/245 with no deferment is a relatively minor sum of money, the owner should greenlight that deal.

 

And any GM not willing to sign Trout to 12/420 or whatever it was, should be fired.  That they gave out a mega deal to Trout (and now Rendon) is not the problem

 

3) They let Rendon go because ownership wasn't willing to exceed the lux tax deep into first tier and apparently deferment too (they can float the deferment, but if the player says that's a deal breaker, they need to stop with that ****).  They couldn't keep both because of ownership decision, not league rules or financial constraint.

 

4) I'm not saying Rizzo is bad at his job or that the Lerners are terrible owners.  I'm saying if Lerners gave Rizzo additional budget (consistently deep into the first tier of lux tax), Rizzo could do a lot of good with that money.  And there's really no reason not to give Rizzo that headroom.

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Commander -JB-

Commander -JB-

Posted
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15 minutes ago, bearrock said:

It gets increasingly frustrating when people conflate your arguments with those of others because the net result of criticizing the Lerners are the same.

 

1) No the Lerners are not cheap.  There are cheap owners.  Lerners are not one of them.  That doesn't mean I can't say they should spend more in certain situations.

 

2) Mega contracts are not always a good idea.  You could say they usually aren't.  But sometimes they are good.  I'm saying if you are willing to offer 7/215 for Rendon and the only thing standing in the way of 7/245 with no deferment is a relatively minor sum of money, the owner should greenlight that deal.

 

And any GM not willing to sign Trout to 12/420 or whatever it was, should be fired.  That they gave out a mega deal to Trout (and now Rendon) is not the problem

 

3) They let Rendon go because ownership wasn't willing to exceed the lux tax deep into first tier and apparently deferment too (they can float the deferment, but if the player says that's a deal breaker, they need to stop with that ****).  They couldn't keep both because of ownership decision, not league rules or financial constraint.

 

4) I'm not saying Rizzo is bad at his job or that the Lerners are terrible owners.  I'm saying if Lerners gave Rizzo additional budget (consistently deep into the first tier of lux tax), Rizzo could do a lot of good with that money.  And there's really no reason not to give Rizzo that headroom.

If you look at the successful organizations they aren’t paying up for big name free agents. Astros and Cardinals sign guys early to avoid FA. Hell, even the Red Sox learned it doesn’t work and now focus on keeping their home grown talent and spend wisely for a guy like Sale. It’s the desperate teams that need to sell season tickets who are making those moves. 

 

Astros let Cole walk and rumors are going to trade Correa before he gets to free agency. You have to make tough decisions. 

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Riggo#44

Riggo#44

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4 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

What if he never left? 

  Reveal hidden contents

537.gif.b7da6c021feb498cdfb4892d3c11bfb6.gif

 

 

Who is Slateman?!

 

25 minutes ago, -JB- said:

If you look at the successful organizations they aren’t paying up for big name free agents. Astros and Cardinals sign guys early to avoid FA. Hell, even the Red Sox learned it doesn’t work and now focus on keeping their home grown talent and spend wisely for a guy like Sale. It’s the desperate teams that need to sell season tickets who are making those moves. 

 

Or the Nats with Scherzer and Corbin. Consisten winners are built on drafting, developing, smart trades, and then free agency in that order. The Nationals have successfully acquired and developed Strasburg, Rendon, Turner, Robles, Soto, Zimmerman. Gomes, Doolittle, and Eaton were trades, but the Nats didn't develop them. They have flipped prospects to fill holes. Their big FAs have been Werth, Scherzer, and Corbin. Lesser deals such as Kendrick, Adams, Suzuki, plus the mid-season gold RIzzo dug up this year.

 

Contrast that with the Phillies. They haven't successfully developed anyone of any real note other than Nola and Hoskins. They've had to buy most of their talent. That model gets too expensive too quickly.

 

I understand the disappointment in losing Rendon--but this organization has earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

 

 

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bearrock

bearrock

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14 minutes ago, -JB- said:

If you look at the successful organizations they aren’t paying up for big name free agents. Astros and Cardinals sign guys early to avoid FA. Hell, even the Red Sox learned it doesn’t work and now focus on keeping their home grown talent and spend wisely for a guy like Sale. It’s the desperate teams that need to sell season tickets who are making those moves. 

 

Astros let Cole walk and rumors are going to trade Correa before he gets to free agency. You have to make tough decisions. 

 

Yet we usually don't sign guys early (which I can't solely blame the organization for as Boras is usually the stumbling block).  And Astros acquired the contracts of Verlander and Greinke and also gave Verlander a 33 mil year extension.  I'm not saying spend like the Yankees.  But Rizzo should be able to dip into 2 years worth of CBT penalty if he felt keeping Rendon was the best path forward (because what's the alternative?  Turn the keys over to unproven Kieboom?  Sign a 34 year old Donaldson who had a injury marred season just 2 seasons ago to a 3-4 year contract at 25 per?  That's seriously a better alternative to keeping Rendon at a higher price tag?)  

 

13 minutes ago, skinsfan_1215 said:

Just pointing out that saying there aren’t rules against exceeding the CBT isn’t true. There are increasing penalties related to comp picks and (I believe) international signing $. MLB has taken some real steps toward making that a real “cap” if you will. 

 

I didn't say there aren't rules, I said the penalty is minor.  20% for first year and 30% for second year on the overage and there's no surtax on the first 20 million.  So they increase the payroll by 5-10 million for the next 2 years.  That's 2.5 to 5 million in taxes.  Then with Scherzer's contract expiring, you go below the threshold again.  The intentional money and comp pick penalty only factors in if you sign qualifying offer free agents (another added cost to signing Donaldson over Rendon).

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

I understand the disappointment in losing Rendon--but this organization has earned the benefit of the doubt.

 

Rizzo will still field a good to great team cause he's Rizzo.  But just because people like Rizzo and Billy Beane can do it year in and year out doesn't mean their job wouldn't get a whole lot easier if the ownership allowed a greater budget.  And asking the ownership flush with all that post-WS cash to increase the payroll budget by 10-15 million in pursuit of a potential dynasty is not an unreasonable fan-dream scenario.  

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Riggo#44

Riggo#44

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9 minutes ago, bearrock said:

Astros acquired the contracts of Verlander and Greinke and also gave Verlander a 33 mil year extension. But Rizzo should be able to dip into 2 years worth of CBT penalty if he felt keeping Rendon was the best path forward (because what's the alternative?  Turn the keys over to unproven Kieboom?  Sign a 34 year old Donaldson who had a injury marred season just 2 seasons ago to a 3-4 year contract at 25 per?  That's seriously a better alternative to keeping Rendon at a higher price tag?)  

 

And the Astros are already talking about shedding payroll. They exceeded the CBT the previous two years as well. The biggest thing for me is the Interaional Pool penalties, given Johnny Dipuglia's successes there. And I would rather trade for Kris Bryant if all things considered, put Kieboom at 2nd. Rizzo will take that $35m from Rendon and go get other pieces, I'd love to see Thames here in the Matt Adams role. We'll see.

12 minutes ago, bearrock said:

And asking the ownership flush with all that post-WS cash to increase the payroll budget by 10-15 million in pursuit of a potential dynasty is not an unreasonable fan-dream scenario.

I understand this sentiment--but it's viewed too much in the here-and-now. Given the ages of both players, signing both Stras and Rendon is really risky down the road. One breaking down is bad...but both? That's 2012 Phillies problems (they still haven't won more than 81 games).

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