2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[bowhunter]

Agreed SIP. If we can't get Murray in the first, I'd love to pick up Grier. I wouldn't want to risk him being there at 2:15 either. Last year we gambled on Guice still being available in late rd 2, and we got extremely lucky. If Murray is gone, I'd want to trade back to late rd 1, grab Grier and add another pick. I think Grier has "it"

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

Agreed SIP. If we can't get Murray in the first, I'd love to pick up Grier. I wouldn't want to risk him being there at 2:15 either. Last year we gambled on Guice still being available in late rd 2, and we got extremely lucky. If Murray is gone, I'd want to trade back to late rd 1, grab Grier and add another pick. I think Grier has "it"

 

Yeah I don't think I'd trade up for him but wouldn't hate it if they took him at their spot in the 2nd or 3rd.  Personally, I'd rather skip QB this draft everything being equal and doing the Qb dance in 2020 instead unless they have a way to land Murray without giving up the farm.  But I wouldn't hate Lock at 15.  I wouldn't hate Grier in the 2nd round.  I wouldn't hate Stidham, Finley or Rypien in the 3rd-4th.  5th round range maybe Ta'amu. 

 

[skinny21]

@Skinsinparadise Two things give me pause regarding Grier: 1) I’ve seen him called high maintenance, and 2) people keep bringing up that he needs to cut down on his mistakes.  

The first point is mostly concerning because I don’t know anything more about it.  I haven’t really watched interviews with him and I haven’t seen anyone put more info out there, so it’s this ephemeral point that could be a big problem (or it could be nothing, like - I think - the Guice situation).  Lord knows we didn’t fare too well with our last high maintenance qb.

 

 The second point - yes, I’ve seen him make some egregious mistakes: taking big sacks, and ill-advised throws, but I don’t see them occurring on any sort of regular basis.  On the other hand, I haven’t watched all of his games.  I believe a large part of this comes from the give and take of having a lot moxie, and acclimating to the NFL (trusting his D, living to fight another down/series) is both very coachable and will be gained through experience (at the Pro level).  

 

Bottom line for me is I don’t see anything that he can’t do at least well, and (per your info) he was the second best in cfb at most things I want to see from a qb.  Believe he lead the nation in intermediate throws in 2017. Throws with accuracy and touch at all levels and on the move.  Can move in the pocket and scramble and keep his eyes downfield.  He’s a cool customer - ‘smooth’ as Jeremiah says.  

 

Regarding his athleticism - I agree that he didn’t comes across as ‘very talented’ in this department, but on the other hand, he was the nation’s number two dual threat qb coming out of high school, and he ran the ball a lot (and well) at Florida.  I’m not sure what happened in the following three years (1 year off for suspension and 2 years at WV) to seemingly dampen that ability.  I did see multiple times he could have scrambled for a first but opted to throw for a few extra yards, so there appears to be almost a desire not to run... as though he was working to prove himself as a passer. 

 

Personally, I’m not that worried about his arm strength - accuracy trumps that by a mile in my book, particularly as it doesn’t limit him stretching the field.  Yes, the ball will arrive a touch slower to wr screens and quick outs, and yes this could have a negative impact at times, but overall I think his arm talent is decent and the ability to throw accurately (away from defenders - back shoulder, etc.) and with anticipation will limit the chances of defenders to impact plays.  

 

@bowhunter While value per the draft community would mean waiting until 2.15 or later for Grier for us, I wonder about the idea (as you and I have suggested) of taking him late first.  If he pans out, we’ll be happy to have the 5th year option, and we likely leapfrog other teams that may be interested (including perhaps, the Saints and Pats, let alone whichever qb needy teams don’t get one in the 1st).  We also gain pick(s) from a trade back, thereby mitigating the possibility of him not panning out by allowing us to still add the same number of non qb draftees.  On the other hand, we might be unwilling to go back to the qb well in 2020, so there’s that.  Though if he’s as bad as a few believe, we’ll likely be picking early next year and the team likely won’t be sold on him (and we’d hopefully have a new FO to boot).  In that scenario, we now have a developmental qb too.  

 

[HigSkin]

With the Skins?  LOL

 

 

It's interesting that the Redskins site has 5 quarterbacks to watch at the combine - Jones, Lock, Murray, Grier and Thorson.

 

 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

34 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

With the Skins?  LOL

 

 

It's interesting that the Redskins site has 5 quarterbacks to watch at the combine - Jones, Lock, Murray, Grier and Thorson.

 

 

 

 

 

Thorson I'm just not impressed with even though he played on NW which didn't help his cause.  IF the Skins really wanted Murray I thought about brother Jon being a person we might be able to deal with somehow; someway but it would cost us dearly to move from #15 to #4.  It would give us excellent odds at getting Murray IF we truly wanted him as our QB.  If Murray is wise and takes part in the drills at the Combine his value will skyrocket.  Right now if we stay at #15 I think the odds are great that Jones is there for the taking.  Grier in the 3rd.  I hope the Skins don't spend a 2nd on him.  

[redskindan07]

I'd explore a trade for Derek Carr trade if I'm the skins although the Raiders would have to eat some salary

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

It's interesting that the Redskins site has 5 quarterbacks to watch at the combine - Jones, Lock, Murray, Grier and Thorson.

 

Stidham in the second or third round it is then.

[HigSkin]

It's funny that the NFL site has a "prospect for each team to watch" at the combine video that shows WR Parris Campbell Ohio State for Skins and Bleacher Report shows him as one of this years biggest bust candidates!  😂😂

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000001018590/2019-NFL-combine-One-prospect-for-each-team-to-watch

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2816368-nfl-draft-2019-who-are-this-years-biggest-bust-candidates#slide4

 

While we're on the subject of talented but raw receiver prospects, we should mention Ohio State's Parris Campbell. The 6'1", 208-pound pass-catcher is blazing fast and will make a defense pay if he can find open space.

However, Campbell isn't especially physical, is very limited as a route-runner and doesn't have the surest of hands. If you were to compare him to, say, the New Orleans Saints' current crop of receivers, Campbell is more Ted Ginn than Michael Thomas. And while that doesn't make him a poor prospect, it does mean teams will need to be patient with him.

If Campbell can work on his pass-catching and develop a more diverse route tree, he can become a quality NFL player. If he doesn't, however, he may be nothing more than a fourth or fifth receiver and a burner with a limited role.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, skinny21 said:

@Skinsinparadise Two things give me pause regarding Grier: 1) I’ve seen him called high maintenance, and 2) people keep bringing up that he needs to cut down on his mistakes.  

The first point is mostly concerning because I don’t know anything more about it.  I haven’t really watched interviews with him and I haven’t seen anyone put more info out there, so it’s this ephemeral point that could be a big problem (or it could be nothing, like - I think - the Guice situation).  Lord knows we didn’t fare too well with our last high maintenance qb.

 

 The second point - yes, I’ve seen him make some egregious mistakes: taking big sacks, and ill-advised throws, but I don’t see them occurring on any sort of regular basis.  On the other hand, I haven’t watched all of his games.  I believe a large part of this comes from the give and take of having a lot moxie, and acclimating to the NFL (trusting his D, living to fight another down/series) is both very coachable and will be gained through experience (at the Pro level).  

 

Bottom line for me is I don’t see anything that he can’t do at least well, and (per your info) he was the second best in cfb at most things I want to see from a qb.  Believe he lead the nation in intermediate throws in 2017. Throws with accuracy and touch at all levels and on the move.  Can move in the pocket and scramble and keep his eyes downfield.  He’s a cool customer - ‘smooth’ as Jeremiah says.  

 

Regarding his athleticism - I agree that he didn’t comes across as ‘very talented’ in this department, but on the other hand, he was the nation’s number two dual threat qb coming out of high school, and he ran the ball a lot (and well) at Florida.  I’m not sure what happened in the following three years (1 year off for suspension and 2 years at WV) to seemingly dampen that ability.  I did see multiple times he could have scrambled for a first but opted to throw for a few extra yards, so there appears to be almost a desire not to run... as though he was working to prove himself as a passer. 

 

Personally, I’m not that worried about his arm strength - accuracy trumps that by a mile in my book, particularly as it doesn’t limit him stretching the field.  Yes, the ball will arrive a touch slower to wr screens and quick outs, and yes this could have a negative impact at times, but overall I think his arm talent is decent and the ability to throw accurately (away from defenders - back shoulder, etc.) and with anticipation will limit the chances of defenders to impact plays.  

 

I've watched a bunch of Grier interviews, posted some of them months back.  He seems like a good guy.  He's married with a young kid. 

 

As for his athleticism to my eyes he overestimates it sometimes and loses yards dancing around and back peddling from the pocket.  But his athleticism is decent.  Arm decent.  I like the style he plays -- he has moxie and there is something fun abut watching him where I don't get the same vibe from some of the other 2nd-4th round types I've watched.

[PlayAction]

49 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

It's funny that the NFL site has a "prospect for each team to watch" at the combine video that shows WR Parris Campbell Ohio State for Skins and Bleacher Report shows him as one of this years biggest bust candidates!  😂😂

However, Campbell isn't especially physical, is very limited as a route-runner and doesn't have the surest of hands. 

If Campbell can work on his pass-catching and develop a more diverse route tree, he can become a quality NFL player. If he doesn't, however, he may be nothing more than a fourth or fifth receiver and a burner with a limited role.

 

 

"not very physical" can mean either 1) not strong enough or 2) lack of competitive fire.  The first is coachable the second is a nail in the coffin.  Certainly not the type of WR that you should pin your hopes on for immediate productivity.  But if the Skins take a flier on him in the 6th or 7th round that's great.  

[Skinsinparadise]

56 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

It's funny that the NFL site has a "prospect for each team to watch" at the combine video that shows WR Parris Campbell Ohio State for Skins and Bleacher Report shows him as one of this years biggest bust candidates!  😂😂

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0ap3000001018590/2019-NFL-combine-One-prospect-for-each-team-to-watch

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2816368-nfl-draft-2019-who-are-this-years-biggest-bust-candidates#slide4

 

While we're on the subject of talented but raw receiver prospects, we should mention Ohio State's Parris Campbell. The 6'1", 208-pound pass-catcher is blazing fast and will make a defense pay if he can find open space.

However, Campbell isn't especially physical, is very limited as a route-runner and doesn't have the surest of hands. If you were to compare him to, say, the New Orleans Saints' current crop of receivers, Campbell is more Ted Ginn than Michael Thomas. And while that doesn't make him a poor prospect, it does mean teams will need to be patient with him.

If Campbell can work on his pass-catching and develop a more diverse route tree, he can become a quality NFL player. If he doesn't, however, he may be nothing more than a fourth or fifth receiver and a burner with a limited role.

 

 

Yeah I've gone off Parris to McLaurin as for the Ohio State receivers.  I liked Parris some months back in the context of Alex starting where I liked the idea of a receiver that can  take a screen, hitch, shallow cross -- sweep, direct handoff, etc -- and take it to the house.  But assuming (hoping?) we get a QB who can test defenses deep -- I'd like a real route running, deep threat, burner type.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[PlayAction]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Yeah it's looking like Hockenson is a sure-fire first round selection.  I've seen him mocked in the top 10 all the way to pick 32.  It all depends upon whether QBs go off the board and whether there is a run on EDGE rushers.  My guess is that given the choice between a potentially elite EDGE and an elite TE most teams will sigh and go for the EDGE.  Skins get good production out of their DL and Kerrigan but really could step up with a speed guy.  It's frustrating though because you never know whether the Skins will look for an OLB that fits the mold of the 3-4 base or their 4-3 front or whether they will revert to trying to fit the square peg into the round hole.  

 

If the Skins don't select a TE in the first round there's a good possibility that Irv Smith and Noah Fant will both be gone by the time the Skins have their 2nd round pick.  Isaac Nauta looks like a good possibility but I have no idea of his draft value.  I don't know if the 3rd comp pick would be a reach.   

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

 

Yeah it's looking like Hockenson is a sure-fire first round selection.  I've seen him mocked in the top 10 all the way to pick 32.  It all depends upon whether QBs go off the board and whether there is a run on EDGE rushers.  My guess is that given the choice between a potentially elite EDGE and an elite TE most teams will sigh and go for the EDGE.  Skins get good production out of their DL and Kerrigan but really could step up with a speed guy.  It's frustrating though because you never know whether the Skins will look for an OLB that fits the mold of the 3-4 base or their 4-3 front or whether they will revert to trying to fit the square peg into the round hole.  

 

If the Skins don't select a TE in the first round there's a good possibility that Irv Smith and Noah Fant will both be gone by the time the Skins have their 2nd round pick.  Isaac Nauta looks like a good possibility but I have no idea of his draft value.  I don't know if the 3rd comp pick would be a reach.   

 

Love Hockenson right now he's my guy and has been for weeks if he drops to 15 unless Murray surprisingly does.  Love Fant and Irv Smith too though not as much.  Sternberger though is close to me to Fant and Smith.  He lead all the draft eligible TEs last year in YPC with 17.3 -- which is insane for a TE.  He also led in first downs and Tds.   I watched a couple of games to zero in on blocking and he's a decent blocker, too. 

 

Check the clip here, he's a feisty guy with the ball in his hands.  I think the dude has the potential to be a star.

 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

Thanks for pointing out Sternberger. That could be a great value pick. Where do you think he goes? I don't have a good feel for it. Maybe somewhere between rounds 2 and 4?
 

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Thanks for pointing out Sternberger. That could be a great value pick. Where do you think he goes? I don't have a good feel for it. Maybe somewhere between rounds 2 and 4?
 

I am guessing 2nd-3rd round range.

[Anselmheifer]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insider/story/_/id/26041446/mel-kiper-big-board-2019-nfl-draft-top-25-prospects-position-rankings

 

Kiper's big board is updated. He has Byron Murphy, who I love, creeping up. Rashan Gary remains too high, and I like Devin White, but I think you're not going to get great value picking him at 4. I also think Montez Sweat is too high. Otherwise, I roughly agree with him. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insider/story/_/id/26041446/mel-kiper-big-board-2019-nfl-draft-top-25-prospects-position-rankings

 

Kiper's big board is updated. He has Byron Murphy, who I love, creeping up. Rashan Gary remains too high, and I like Devin White, but I think you're not going to get great value picking him at 4. I also think Montez Sweat is too high. Otherwise, I roughly agree with him. 

 

 

Just went through it.  Just some pre combine observations as to mocks and draft geek evaluations

 

Devin White seems to be either a stud, the next Roquan Smith or a Zach Brown type MLB who gets fooled too much -- depending on the evaluator.  He's top 10 in some mocks and late first rounder in others.  Clearly, Kiper is among his fans, ranking him as the 4th best player.

 

Judging by recent mocks the odds are good that we will have the ability to choose either Clelin Ferrell or Jachai Polite but probably one of them will be gone before 15. 

 

Hockenson is catching fire.  Kiper ranked as the 6th best prospect.  I see him top 10 or top 14 now on multiple mocks.  Judging by the most mocks -- 50-50 Hockenson is there at 15.

 

Looks like Kiper loves the corners, Greedy Williams, D. Baker and B. Murphy are top 15.  Typically there is a an early run on CBs. 

 

Montez Sweat has skyrocketed with draft geeks post senior bowl.  The dude is now sometimes higher in mocks than Polite, Ferrell. 

 

Rashan Gary used to be all over the map in mocks, now I almost always see him top 10

 

Drew Lock and Daniel Jones both could be available at 15.  However, QBs tend to go higher than expected so who knows.  But it seems like both Lock and Jones have lost some luster with some draft geeks. 

 

Jawaan Taylor seems to be building some steam.  He can play guard, too. 

 

DK Metcalf seems all over the place in mocks, am betting his combine numbers will dictate his status more than most

 

Seems like almost given going before 15 (precombine)

Bosa

Q. Williams

J. Allen

R. Gary

D. Haskins

K. Murray

J. Taylor

E. Oliver

 

Likely going before 14

E. Oliver

At least one of the corners:  D. Baker, G. Williams, B. Murphy

Either Drew Lock or Daniel Jones but maybe not both

J. Williams

Cody Ford

M. Sweat

 

Maybe

J. Polite

C. Ferrell

TJ Hockenson

D. White

 

[sportjunkie07]

The problem with Hockenson is that he will require our first rounder. I love the prospect, but this is a really strong tight end draft. We are probably better off getting a speed pass rusher, safety, lineman, or qb in the first and waiting till later rounds to select a TE.. who will prolly be start able this year over what we have. 

 

And for the love of God can we get someone that can bend the edge and get to the qb. It reminds me of the Baltimore orioles where they ignored having any fast players for years. 

On 2/23/2019 at 7:02 AM, bowhunter said:

Agreed SIP. If we can't get Murray in the first, I'd love to pick up Grier. I wouldn't want to risk him being there at 2:15 either. Last year we gambled on Guice still being available in late rd 2, and we got extremely lucky. 

Did we though? Dude hasn't played a snap of the regular season yet. 

[Veryoldschool]

it's 2/24 and I would just like to say for the millionth time the Redskins need to use the first three picks for OL.  Us the first pick of an OT and the next 2 picks for Guards/Centers.  If a WR is available in the 4th round that would be nice also.

 

As for QB, I would prefer to go with what we got unless a useful guy can be plucked off another team's practice squad suck as Connor Cook.  If needed draft one in 2020 when the class is better and the Skins pick higher if they struggle this season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

DRAFT RUMORS

ESPN's Mel Kiper Jr. "guesses" that there will be three quarterbacks selected in the 1st Round of the 2019 NFL Draft. Kiper believes Haskins and Murray are near locks to go in the first round – as do most people – and thinks one of Drew Lock or Daniel Jones will also be.  It’s odd to hear Lock and Jones seemingly tiered together after all the early draft buzz was Lock being selected by the Denver Broncos at pick No. 10. Some of that buzz seemed to die down after the acquisition of Joe Flacco but multiple reports suggested that getting Flacco doesn’t take them out of the quarterback market. This means Lock is very much still in play at No. 10 with Flacco as their “bridge” quarterback. Jones seems to be more on the border of Rounds 1 and 2 at this point. With a solid performance at the NFL Scouting Combine, he could sneak into the end of the first round as teams look to get a team-friendly fifth-year option if he pans out.

 

Raiders GM Mike Mayock said, "if you can move down and pick up extra picks, that’s a good thing" when asked about the Raiders 4th overall pick. This is the mentality that successful teams like the Patriots have had for years. Trading back and acquiring more picks either in that draft or the future is incredibly beneficial for a team’s long-term success. Hitting on players in the draft is extremely difficult, especially after the first round. By trading back, GMs are giving themselves more chances at hitting. In the same interview, Mayock also said “If you have a cluster of guys at [No. 4] that you want and you don’t like them, you probably need to get out. Why take a guy you don’t love? Sometimes you get stuck, it happens." With three first-round picks in the upcoming NFL Draft, the Raiders are stocked with enough ammo to trade down multiple times and stockpile picks for years to come while drafting legitimate game-changing players. Whether they actually do, remains to be seen.

 

Oklahoma WR Marquise Brown will not participate in the NFL Scouting Combine after undergoing surgery for his LisFranc injury in January. Brown will also miss his pro day but should be ready for summer camp. This is a big blow for the speedster who was expected to have a really strong showing at the NFL Scouting Combine. Even with the injury, the big-play wideout has a chance to be selected in the first round after racking up the most 40-yard plays and averaged 12.4 yards per target in his final season at Oklahoma.

 

An NFC area scout believes Ohio State QB Dwayne Haskins (6’3/220) would have been QB4 for him if he were a part of last year’s rookie class. This likely puts him behind Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, and either Josh Rosen or Allen in the hypothetical pecking order. The scout also believes Haskins will wind up as a top-5 pick by the time the NFL Draft rolls around. ESPN’s Josina Anderson reported that Haskins will throw at the upcoming NFL Scouting Combine, meaning he will likely be a full participant. With a solid combine or better there’s a good chance he finds himself selected within the top-10 picks on draft day.

https://www.rotoworld.com/article/weekly-update/cfb-storylines-week-1

[Est.1974]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Raiders GM Mike Mayock said, "if you can move down and pick up extra picks, that’s a good thing" when asked about the Raiders 4th overall pick. This is the mentality that successful teams like the Patriots have had for years. Trading back and acquiring more picks either in that draft or the future is incredibly beneficial for a team’s long-term success. Hitting on players in the draft is extremely difficult, especially after the first round. By trading back, GMs are giving themselves more chances at hitting. In the same interview, Mayock also said “If you have a cluster of guys at [No. 4] that you want and you don’t like them, you probably need to get out. Why take a guy you don’t love? Sometimes you get stuck, it happens." With three first-round picks in the upcoming NFL Draft, the Raiders are stocked with enough ammo to trade down multiple times and stockpile picks for years to come while drafting legitimate game-changing players. Whether they actually do, remains to be seen.

 

I think the Raiders already have 2 first rounders in 2020 as well. They could easily bail out from #4 to snag another first rounder in 2020. That would leave them in good shape next year to move right up and get an elite prospect QB if Carr continues to come up short.

 

Plus they'd likely move back from #4 to the mid first round and still hold a trio of 1st rounders this year.

 

Mayock must be like a kid on Christmas morning right now.

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Looks like Kiper loves the corners, Greedy Williams, D. Baker and B. Murphy are top 15.  Typically there is a an early run on CBs. 

 

If the Redskins make a move for a vet QB, that may well be the end for Josh Norman as a cap casualty. He probably should be anyway. That could easily bring CB into play for us in the first round. Chances are we would get a very good one too.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I think the Raiders already have 2 first rounders in 2020 as well. They could easily bail out from #4 to snag another first rounder in 2020. That would leave them in good shape next year to move right up and get an elite prospect QB if Carr continues to come up short.

 

Plus they'd likely move back from #4 to the mid first round and still hold a trio of 1st rounders this year.

 

Mayock must be like a kid on Christmas morning right now.

 

Yeah was just listening to a Ross Tucker podcast where he cited someone saying he hears that the 49ers want to trade down.  If so right now you got scuttlebutt that the 49ers, Raiders, Jets, Bills all want to trade down?  Wonder if that creates a buyers market as for trading up.  I am still not a big fan of the idea of trading up though unless they can do it without sacrificing their 2020 #1. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, sportjunkie07 said:

The problem with Hockenson is that he will require our first rounder. I love the prospect, but this is a really strong tight end draft. We are probably better off getting a speed pass rusher, safety, lineman, or qb in the first and waiting till later rounds to select a TE.. who will prolly be start able this year over what we have. 

 

In concept I agree but the reason why there is buzz that Hockenson can go top 10 is how unique he is among that crowd.  He's not just a decent blocker but is a monster blocker and weapon in the passing game.  For those (not you) suggesting lets go crazy with drafting O lineman, I get the sentiment but it feels a bit over the top.  However, adding a monster TE blocker AND a big body guard -- now you are talking about really building something special perhaps as to improving run-pass blocking.  Heck I can argue its easier to find a monster blocking guard than it is a monster blocking TE who can also catch.  

 

And its not just about getting a TE who can do it all but also what it means to disguise play calling.  TEs have become so specialized -- the blocking TEs, the receiving TEs, etc that your personnel can tip off runs versus passes.  Hockenson makes that tough.  You want him in there to block for the run and as a pass catching weapon.   For the same reason some teams covet safeties who can do it all -- the offense equivalent of that can be your Tes.