Springfield Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 You know, when gangsters were gunning down people with tommy guns, the government made tommy guns illegal. And all it really took was one single incident. Seems like a simple solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, dfitzo53 said: I'm trying to understand how someone with an assault weapon and a desire to kill people is going to be stopped (or even slowed down) by a metal detector. I'm trying to understand your point. Most of these bammas are looking for soft targets, if people are at the door waiting for them, that's not a soft target. If someone is determined to come into a school knowing they have to start shooting just to get in, you have a different problem entirely. Ban any type of clothing, like a trenchcoat, that could be used to hide a weapon like that, people will see them coming. The weapons I think you're talking about shouldn't be available to the public anyway, but that's a down the road vote, I don't think we're ready to have that vote yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 7 hours ago, dfitzo53 said: I'm trying to understand how someone with an assault weapon and a desire to kill people is going to be stopped (or even slowed down) by a metal detector. As I remember, the Pulse nightclub had a security guard at the door, inspecting people's bags, and an armed, uniformed, police officer inside. The shooter shot both of them, on his way in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Larry said: As I remember, the Pulse nightclub had a security guard at the door, inspecting people's bags, and an armed, uniformed, police officer inside. The shooter shot both of them, on his way in. I've looked at 5-6 different articles, I can't really tell what level of resistance he meet before he got in the club, but can tell you the uninformed police officer was the first to engage him once he was inside the club. He didn't get shot, he realized he was outgunned and called for backup, two minutes later 2 more cops show up but don't enter the club for another 6 minutes until another 3-4 cops show up then they all go in same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 The new normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 12 hours ago, Renegade7 said: Most of these bammas are looking for soft targets, if people are at the door waiting for them, that's not a soft target. I will definitely agree with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 12 hours ago, Renegade7 said: The weapons I think you're talking about shouldn't be available to the public anyway, but that's a down the road vote, I don't think we're ready to have that vote yet. I don't think we're ever going to be ready to have that vote. I do not know how anyone can observe what's gone on for the last 10 years and think that there's a point at which this will change. I guess I just don't understand what the catalyst of this will be... how many people have to die in what setting in one incident before something changes? if 20 some odd teachers and elementary school children and however many at pulse or vegas weren't enough, what exactly is? We can cite stats on increased background check polls and other general ideas but polls that get into the details (what kind of guns, what kind of background checks, etc) all start to show support falling apart. "I want to stop crazy people from shooting up schools" is easy to get behind. It's the details where support falls apart. At one point I was convinced politicians being the victim of a shooting would be what it takes, cause they love to suddenly "get it" when they're the ones impacted. But we had one of those at the softball game and we still got nothing. We got a bunch of bull**** at nationals park with people form both sides sitting together on camera talking about trying to work together. But ultimately that was bull**** (some of us recognized it at the time) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, tshile said: I don't think we're ever going to be ready to have that vote. "Ever" is a long time. I've floated out the idea before of protecting pistols, shotguns, and single shot rifles then banning the sale of any other firearm and their ammo. There's a lot of other pieces that need to be in place for us to be able to get to that point (which will make this take longer), but I don't believe a single moment will cause this anymore. It will be a part in power with enough votes to make it real. Dems at some point will have a chance, if they blow it like GOP did with trying to repeal Obamacare, the repercussions will be hard to fathom. This might not happen until Millenials and Gen Z make up the majority of congress instead of baby boomers given that we're the ones getting shot in school. One of my greatest concerns is that Dems go too far past what both sides agree on and it blows up in their face. They need to wait for public sentiment to match anything they want to go further with, but there has to be a line given many won't support going further then what I proposed in my second sentence (and neither will I). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: "Ever" is a long time. I've floated out the idea before of protecting pistols, shotguns, and single shot rifles then banning the sale of any other firearm and their ammo I know it's a long time. I know. I knew it when I said that. It's... it's terrible to think that way, yet here I am. I've also floated that idea. I'm OK with that idea, personally. I do not think it will ever happen, but I am OK with it. Where I stop being OK with gun control is laws that essentially guarantee there will be people out there with guns (because they don't have to or don't care to follow the rules), but I cannot be out there with them myself (because I do have to and I do care to follow the rules.) A law that rids me of some part of the right to own, use, and carry a gun is fine so long as it guarantees me protection that other's are bound to the same rules. That's why I generally support control efforts that are at the point of sale much more than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 21 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said: You said this. I forgot My little brother graduated same year as you. I probably knew your brother or at least in passing. I hung around lot of the older cats but if we were in that same place for 4 years I bet I knew him. Ask him if he remember that teacher stabbing a student with a fork in the cafe. That **** ruined my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, tshile said: I know it's a long time. I know. I knew it when I said that. It's... it's terrible to think that way, yet here I am. I know, I still plan on getting one of each and a concealed, but I know even now as far as I can go legally won't match what's already on the street illegally. It's going to be that way for generations at minimum because even with the bans, firearms and ammo last a very long time if taken care of. I wouldn't look at it as "Someone will always have better guns then me", they always have and likely always will. Right now, its just too damn easy to wipe out scores of people with weapons available legally, too damn easy. Taking a step in the right direction is almost the most I can ask for right now, I don't see this being resolved to the way either of us wish in our lifetime, but have to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 I think the ONLY path to meaningful gun reform starts and ends with campaign finance reform. The statistics tell us that CITIZENS largely agree on which reforms are fair compromise that allow people to keep their guns while making things at least measurably better. But citizens don't make laws. And citizens don't actually control the lawmakers anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 10 minutes ago, Vilandil Tasardur said: The statistics tell us that CITIZENS largely agree on which reforms are fair compromise that allow people to keep their guns while making things at least measurably better. I don't think this is true. Statistics tell us that people agree something should be done. When discussion gets into the details statistics tell us people start to not agree when the details come out. Like what should be included on a background check, through whom it should go, how long it should be kept and by whom. Registration. Which guns should be limited/banned in which ways. The stuff needed to craft legislation. As much as the statistics tell us 80+% of people are for "increased background checks", they also tell us a large number of people who currently own guns aren't for any real increases in any restrictions. That a large number of people who down't own guns, plan to own guns or are open to it in the future. That of people who have never owned a gun, a large number of them are open to or plan to own a gun in the future. I think the statistics show that views on guns and gun legislation are incredibly complex and are difficult to navigate. Views on generic gun violence questions, on the other hand, are rather simple. (I think all of that is solvable if our politicians, our supposed leaders, put for an effort to actually try to get something done. but they don't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Pointing out that this should be in the gun control thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, tshile said: I don't think this is true. Statistics tell us that people agree something should be done. When discussion gets into the details statistics tell us people start to not agree when the details come out. Like what should be included on a background check, through whom it should go, how long it should be kept and by whom. Registration. Which guns should be limited/banned in which ways. The stuff needed to craft legislation. (I think all of that is solvable if our politicians, our supposed leaders, put for an effort to actually try to get something done. but they don't) I'm on my phone at the moment, but I keep hearing over and over that just about every poll shows people overwhelmingly in favor of background checks and waiting periods. Sure, specifics of that probably come and go, but that's how things are with all issues. It takes leaders to get us over that. But you know...leaders...where the hell do we find those? Edit: Good point Larry. My fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 1 minute ago, Larry said: Pointing out that this should be in the gun control thread. 'Haha, sorry, for some reason i thought we were there. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I feel like huff post is intentionally blurring what a mass shooting is in order to lecture people. The story is a tragedy but it seems inappropriate how they’re habdling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 4 hours ago, tshile said: I feel like huff post is intentionally blurring what a mass shooting is in order to lecture people. The story is a tragedy but it seems inappropriate how they’re habdling it. Maybe. I think it's pretty blurry already. Three kids dead here plus the husband, how many people did the guy in Oklahoma shoot? Anyway there are similarities between this and bigger or more random shootings besides the method of killing to think about as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 29, 2018 Share Posted May 29, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 This is an article about the school resource officer at Stoneman Douglas High School who has been branded a coward for his actions that day. After reading this piece, I have to wonder whether that was a knee-jerk, unfair characterization of him, a scapegoating of someone other than the shooter himself. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/it-was-my-job-and-i-didnt-find-him-stoneman-douglas-resource-officer-remains-haunted-by-massacre/2018/06/04/796f1c16-679d-11e8-9e38-24e693b38637_story.html?utm_term=.56d05448b04b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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