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CRobi21

Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

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But if they do resign Breeland because Fuller is gone you can add that 10+ Mil contract which will mean they saved nothing at all but lost KC and a 3rd rounder for a better Jason Campbell. :headbang:

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1 minute ago, Tay said:

We don't know what the cap hit will be in the coming years until the details of the contract are released.

 

We don't know if Kirk was going to sign in DC, so the Redskins went out to get a competent starter on a reasonable deal. It was either that or a big question mark.

 

It sucks, but it was the right move if the team wanted to guarantee a chance to compete next year.

@TayI think you touched on some key things.  

1) You’re right, we don’t know the details.  We could well have signed a contract that ramps up significantly in years 3 and 4 of the extension, and so ‘saves’ us money over 2019/2020.  

 

2) We don’t know if Kirk would have signed here, perhaps even on a reasonable deal.  

 

3) it was a good move in trying to stay competitive.  Time will tell if it’s a good move in terms of building a contender.  IMO it’s a bad decision, with ripple effects.  It’s a finger to a leak.  

 

 

My take is a little different than some others upset about the trade.  I understand the desire to stay competitive.  If we had rolled with McCoy, that opens up more FA resources.  So, we maybe sign Richardson, sign a good G and re-sign Brown.  Along with better health, this causes our D to take a major step forward.  The FA G, coupled with an upgrade at RB in the draft, a TE that can block and catch, and a healthy oline, and our run game takes a similar big step forward.  Thats’s not even factoring in a 1st round pick or the fact that we now can comfortably go BPA there (and later).  

 

With those two major improvements, I think 5-6 wins becomes our floor, with 9-10 wins as our ceiling... even with McCoy.  In other words, we’re competitive.  We’re almost certainly not contenders of course, but you work through that - draft and groom qbs, hope to find one that works for you.  Hard to keep the team intact, but less money on a qb frees up resources, and you continue your draft pipeline.  

 

Long story short, I don’t think McCoy qbing the team would mean we’re tanking, or likely to win 2-4 games.  What it would mean is a chance to beef up the team and increase our long term stability and promise.  

 

 

For the record, my priority was 1) re-signing Kirk (at least offering a very fair deal with guarantees offsetting a slightly below market salary). 2) rolling with Colt.  3) signing a FA that might fit the scheme and 4) trading for Smith... and that was before Fuller included.  

 

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9 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Or they know that the majority of their fans are idiots who will get excited when they believe that the team might win 10 games even though it turns out to be 5.

Thats the problem with a lot of our fan base. My bro for instance, thinks it’s reslistic for us to win 10-11 games and says well now that we have Smith, and have saved money and ended the Cousins drama we can get this, this and this, and can totally win 10-11 games. And I’m like, have you not seen how this FO operates over the past 20 years? 

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5 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

But if they do resign Breeland because Fuller is gone you can add that 10+ Mil contract which will mean they saved nothing at all but lost KC and a 3rd rounder for a better Jason Campbell. :headbang:

Basically my contention as well. I know we don’t know all the details of the contract or if Cousins would have signed the same deal here that he gets with his new team, but I do know the savings can’t be but so much if we have to fill the hole Fuller left unless we truly believe Moreau or Dunbar can do it. In the end, I would have preferred to keep Fuller and the draft pick and see if we could land one of the flier options on the FA market

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4 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

We do know that Cousins would have signed for 18 to 19 Mil after 2015, and even less before Osweiler signed.

 

But we are talking about 2018 and so constantly dredging up the past as a way to criticize the current situation is not really relevant.  I doubt very much that we re-sign Breeland unless his FA market is a lot cooler than he expects and he comes back on a team friendly deal.  They like Moreau, Dunbar and Holsey and may well add another through the draft.  If we do go after anything in FA I would expect a receiver to be the top target and possibly an interior lineman. 

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3 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

 

But we are talking about 2018 and so constantly dredging up the past as a way to criticize the current situation is not really relevant. 

The fact that you choose to ignore that the Redskins are ran by chimpanzees does not require me to ignore the banana peels and chimp poop all over everything.

 

 

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16 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

We do know that Cousins would have signed for 18 to 19 Mil after 2015, and even less before Osweiler signed.

 

I do not believe we know that. I definitely disagree

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1 minute ago, Blue Collar Skins said:

 

I do not believe we know that. I definitely disagree

So you refuse to acknowledge that his agent made an offer after Osweiler, for 19M a year?

 

Ok then. :rofl89:

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Not ignoring anything, the dumpster fire has been raging for years.

 

I just think that to evaluate this deal you have to look at their options now and not what they could have, should have or would have done 3 years ago.  To say they screwed up the situation with Kirk is a massive understatement but by the end of this season it was way to late to undo the past.

 

Looks like they had several options moving forward;

 

1. Make a play for Kirk and pray they could fix it - tough to go this route if as he says he wanted to see if they tagged him first.  The tag was unlikely as we could not afford to invest $34 million for another one year rental and we were unlikely to be able to match offers under the transition if we went that route.  A huge LTD offered before FA might have got it done but it seems unlikely and if we committed to this dance then we would have missed out on some other options before ultimately watching Kirk walk anyway.

 

2. Roll with Colt, draft a new QB - has some appeal but huge risk here.  Picking at 13 we are not likely to get one of the top candidates and the price to move up would set us back significantly.  Factor in Colt's lack of durability and we are probably starting our version of Blaine Gabbert way before he is ready and drafting a QB in the first round again within 2 years.

 

3. Sign a guy in FA - unclear who would be there by the time it rolls around.  Most likely candidates are Bradford, Taylor, McCown and Gabbert.  The only one potentially good enough is Bradford but the injury concerns are huge, he makes Colt look like an iron man and on top of that we effectively throw away any chance of a comp pick for Kirk if we go this route.

 

4. Trade for Smith - any way you slice it he is pretty much on a par with Kirk in terms of ability, there are differences like Smith is more athletic, Kirk may be a little more accurate etc . but both are proven mid tier starters and by signing Smith you get to keep building the rest of your roster and you don't have to force a pick in the draft.  Smith is in great shape and can reasonably be expected to play another 3-4 years easily without any significant decline in his physical skills.

 

All of these scenarios have their pros and cons but personally I am happier with number 4.  Giving up Fuller stings and it is the cost of doing business.  Smith over McCoy will literally make a significant difference in the number of games we win whereas even a great slot corner is not going to do that for you.  The goal every year is to win a championship or why do you even play the games and without a viable starter at QB you have no shot.  I get that we are a long shot even with Smith but we at least are giving ourselves a chance.  

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33 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

We do know that Cousins would have signed for 18 to 19 Mil after 2015, and even less before Osweiler signed.

That's not true. Kirk wanted 19.5 per.

 

Scot and the rest of the org didn't want that LTD at that point. It was a mistake, but not ridiculous in the moment. 

 

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I really have to wonder if what Scott M had to say about Cousins not being special had anything to do with this....I would also be very interested in what Vernon Davis thinks...

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4 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

You should worry about your own team and the head coach you have that keeps losing playoff games. It doesn't matter who the Chefs have at QB as long as they have Slingin Andy as their head coach.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. 

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3 hours ago, UKskins said:

I posted in the BA/GM thread about this - my soccer team drove an owner out in the late 90s by protesting outside the stadium on gamedays with banners and flags - the media ran with it and it got a fair bit of coverage. Is it feasible in the USA?

 

Wouldn't work.  Snyder loves attention be it positive or negative.  Besides, the guy bought the team for $800M and it's now worth $3+ billion and will be worth much more once the new stadium is built.  Who in their right mind would sell an asset that appreciates that much when you do almost nothing but hang out at football games to keep it running? 

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3 hours ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Did that happen? I thought that rumor had been debunked?

 

It's probably true, but the Chiefs would never have accepted it because Smith would make the Broncos the instant favorite for the division title next season.

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1 hour ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

 

But we are talking about 2018 and so constantly dredging up the past as a way to criticize the current situation is not really relevant.  I doubt very much that we re-sign Breeland unless his FA market is a lot cooler than he expects and he comes back on a team friendly deal.  They like Moreau, Dunbar and Holsey and may well add another through the draft.  If we do go after anything in FA I would expect a receiver to be the top target and possibly an interior lineman. 

The thing is that it’s relevant to 2018 and beyond. The fact that the FO passed on the LTD in 2015 offered by Cousins camp put us in this situation to begin with and shows that the people in the FO are reactionary and are not capable of forward thinking. This is why we always have many holes to fill year after year. Trading away young talented players and draft picks are a surefire way to stay mediocre. 

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1 minute ago, lazard said:

 

It's probably true, but the Chiefs would never have accepted it because Smith would make the Broncos the instant favorite for the division title next season.

 

Interesting point.  Lot of the drama in this thread is over Reid having fooled us before with an over the hill QB and we fell for it again but I think this just bears out the difference in the situations.  Trading McNabb within the division didn't bother Reid at all because he knew he was a fat lazy bum looking for one more paycheck but no way would he have traded Smith to a division rival.

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3 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

 

Interesting point.  Lot of the drama in this thread is over Reid having fooled us before with an over the hill QB and we fell for it again but I think this just bears out the difference in the situations.  Trading McNabb within the division didn't bother Reid at all because he knew he was a fat lazy bum looking for one more paycheck but no way would he have traded Smith to a division rival.

 

not only did the Chiefs not want Smith in the division, they didn't even want him in the AFC.

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Anyone else not completely on the Alex Smith hate train? I mean, Im not happy about letting Kirk walk, and i think the trade was poor but lets at least try to be positive. Alex Smith was a stud at Utah the number 1 overall pick of the 2005 draft, 3X PROBOWL 189-96 TD ratio, extremely durable tough guy,He has played in 7 career playoff games with a rating in those games of 97.4.... I'm just sayin guys, we could be doing alot worse here.. 

 

Lets give the man a shot

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I don't think I have ever seen a player at the QB spot with no more than 9 wins in a season get more debate than Kirk Cousins. And I am guilty of it just as much as all of you. Holy ****. We are going to be alright. Some act like we lost Johnny Unitas in his prime or something. Calm your tits people. 

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4 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

but it's VERY likely we get one because of his 'value' in the market, and what his APY is going to be right?  

 

I do not see it as "very likely" at all. The convoluted and seemingly top secret formula the NFL uses makes no sense really.  I am not say it;s unlikely either,. I am saying that counting on a 3rd rd compensatory pick now is just way too early with entirely too many things to happen between now and then. Not to mention if you are to believe the draft charts a 3rd for 2019 is the equivalent to a 4th in 2018 draft currency. But that's being picky...  :-)  To be honest, while get what the point is i have never really bought into that premise. A 3rd is a 3rd is a 3rd. But just throwing that out there. 

 

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1 hour ago, Tay said:

That's not true. Kirk wanted 19.5 per.

 

Scot and the rest of the org didn't want that LTD at that point. It was a mistake, but not ridiculous in the moment. 

 

 

I don't know why people won't hold Scott M accountable, the FO hired him to do a job and he "didn't feel comfortable" signing Kirk at that amount after 2015.

 

That's a fact, there is no denying that's what happened with the information we now have from Kirk and SM.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Anyone else not completely on the Alex Smith hate train? I mean, Im not happy about letting Kirk walk, and i think the trade was poor but lets at least try to be positive. Alex Smith was a stud at Utah the number 1 overall pick of the 2005 draft, 3X PROBOWL 189-96 TD ratio, extremely durable tough guy,He has played in 7 career playoff games with a rating in those games of 97.4.... I'm just sayin guys, we could be doing alot worse here.. 

 

Lets give the man a shot

 

2 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

I don't think I have ever seen a player at the QB spot with no more than 9 wins in a season get more debate than Kirk Cousins. And I am guilty of it just as much as all of you. Holy ****. We are going to be alright. Some act like we lost Johnny Unitas in his prime or something. Calm your tits people. 

I don’t hate Alex Smith. I like him, he’s a good QB. My problem is strictly based on my feelings about how this FO operates. We shouldn’t have had to trade valuable assets to begin with if this FO was capable of properly evaluating talent and forward thinking. 

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5 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

I don't think I have ever seen a player at the QB spot with no more than 9 wins in a season get more debate than Kirk Cousins. And I am guilty of it just as much as all of you. Holy ****. We are going to be alright. Some act like we lost Johnny Unitas in his prime or something. Calm your tits people. 

LOL Good post and so true,But maybe you are young guy, im guessing. Or maybe you just forgot how bad things have been at QB since Mark Rypien won our last SuperBowl. Compared to the others who were under center for us over the past 25+ years, Cousins was looking like Montana

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