markmills67 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 A lot of people on here think Long will be re-signed to play LG, but wasn't he moved to C because Gruden wasn't happy with his play at LG?. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: https://www.profootballrumors.com/phil-rauscher Broncos staff housekeeping note: assistant to the head coach Phil Rauscher is interviewing to become the Redskins’ assistant offensive line coach Cool. So we're gonna have another zbs'er pointing out how Fletcher Cox is just manhandling our o-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 9 minutes ago, markmills67 said: A lot of people on here think Long will be re-signed to play LG, but wasn't he moved to C because Gruden wasn't happy with his play at LG?. HTTR True. I think the recent trend to keep drafted player in-house and re-signing the "low cost" guys has jaded my thoughts on Long. If he's truly undersized, maybe we do let him walk. But there isn't a replacement in-house, especially with Lavao likely gone too. So I would imagine getting a LG in FA would be a priority. The team could also like the flexibility between Long and Roullier at Center. They could choose to bring Long back to play Center since he can kick to a Guard spot when needed. Not sure about Roullier's ability to kick to Guard, but having 2 capable Centers who can also kick to Guard isn't a bad thing. So maybe Long is brought back as a C, Roullier is kicked to back-up, and they go sign a LG or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 6'5 318 isn't undersized for a guard I don't think. And I think Long was kicked to C because we needed one and he's always been fine with Lauvao's play unlike the fans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Long has value as long as he's not your only option.. He's a very valuable backup because of his flexibility and his ability to coordinate the line, but he's absolutely not the best option as a day to day starter. In a fill in situation, he's what you want. You have 0 learning curve regardless of the interior line position you play him at, which essentially opens up a roster spot instead of needing to occupy 2 different back up positions with 2 players (G, C) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Long would be a solid backup to have (somewhat like Will Compton), but I will say that if he’s your weak link as a starter, you could do a lot worse. When he’s either not the weak link, or 1 of 2 weak links... that’s a different story. I like Roullier a lot, but I think we should expect some growing pains with him. With that in mind, I’d like to bring in a FA guard if possible. Though if we have to settle for a middling FA guard, I’d rather draft one and have them compete with Kalis, Catalina and Nsheke. Take our lumps with some younger guys as Scherff will be up for a payday pretty soon, and it would be nice to not have 4/5 making good money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Pablo Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 Would it be worthwhile to poach Jonathan Cooper from the Cowboys to play LG? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKskins Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I'm stoked about re-upping Bibbs. I liked what I saw from him and he is a nice addition to the corps. Was hoping we'd bring him back. We definitely need a feature back though. At this point, I'm ready to spend a high pick because we need a gamechanger. We either need to invest in a DJax type WR to take the top off a defense which will allow the backs we have a bit more wiggle room, or we need a dominant RB to force teams to respect the run. I think getting either one of those would have this Offense ready to roll if Kirk does come back. Kirk's biggest strength is PA - he's probably one of the top 3 PA guys in the league right now - if he does come back then we need to play to his skillset and build for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 On exhibition Calais Campbell. Bruce's solution? McGee and McClain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Andrew Norwell is #68, the LG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said: Andrew Norwell is #68, the LG. Don't think we can afford him if we resign cousin's. If we go with McCoy or a QB we draft I would go all in to sign Norwell. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, markmills67 said: Don't think we can afford him if we resign cousin's. If we go with McCoy or a QB we draft I would go all in to sign Norwell. HTTR The hell you talkin' about? You think the team can only sign Cousins and no one else? Welp, guess we'll need to bring in about 23 undrafted rookie free agents then. Norwell's valuation (personally) is between 7.5 to 9.5 AAV, my guesstimation. But of course most players probably see the dysfunction of this Org from miles away, much like Cousins. So I guess I buy the notion that anyone who comes here is doing so for the full price, not at any discount like one would to chase a ring like in NE or Pitt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Monk4thaHALL said: The hell you talkin' about? You think the team can only sign Cousins and no one else? Welp, guess we'll need to bring in about 23 undrafted rookie free agents then. Norwell's valuation (personally) is between 7.5 to 9.5 AAV, my guesstimation. But of course most players probably see the dysfunction of this Org from miles away, much like Cousins. So I guess I buy the notion that anyone who comes here is doing so for the full price, not at any discount like one would to chase a ring like in NE or Pitt. My point was with the amount of holes we have on our roster, it would be hard to go all in on the best FA G available. In my opinion we need at least 2 RB, 2 WR, LG, 2DL, 2LB and at least 1 S. And possibly a C, and TE. If we can do all that and give Cousin's what he wants then I will be over the moon. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 1 hour ago, markmills67 said: hard to go all in on the best FA G available. That's interesting. Because when I started looking at unrestricted free agent o-linemen around Thanksgiving and continued to do so throughout December, there was nary a peep about Norwell at all on this message board. After I had gone through about 7 to 8 guys and had started to rank a board of free agents, I eventually came across Norwell. He wasn't someone I followed when he was in college. So I started with his NFL stuff. And I started with his current season tape. He wasn't someone that I ever saw an "advert" about either. Like some players are put on national pedestals. Our Trent Williams is one. You know, guys who have been selected to the Pro Bowl. The broadcasts usually go out of their way to promote those players with blurbs. That hasn't been the case with Norwell. In short, he was hardly called the "best FA guard available" by anyone here on ES. I didn't come to the eval with any preconceived notions or biases. But it didn't take long to see the talent. And he immediately shot to the top of my board based upon his tape and because of his characteristic traits. After I watched his tape, I called him a Pro Bowl level Guard. That was not a term used here, nor in general use around the interwebs. Carolina boards were effusive in praise about him when I went to cross-reference him after being impressed by the tape. But now after I've promoted him relatively hard here for a month or so, he's all of a sudden the accepted "best?" Just weird for me to read that because, in all honesty, he was somewhat obscure if all you were doing was looking at the bulk list of available FA linemen. He also wasn't heavily talked about in general on the national media level. I was expecting a number of people to promote ... IDK, Joeckel, for example, because he's a bigger name, more recognizable, and (pssst) that's usually what happens on ES. People have already made passing posts on Greg Robinson. I figure you could count on a certain number of posts for Aboushi because he went to UVA, or Billy Turner because he was somewhat of a draftnik mancrush back when, and because of the Zone blocking scheme quick association. I already pointed out why I think the FO would go for a total wha-wha acquisition of Sua Filo. None of those guys are of interest to me. What I'm saying is, from my experience, what you're doing is something that happens every single year. It's a humorous cliche to me at this point after seeing for near 10 years. If someone is mentioned on ES and people go and check him out and see that he's actually got ability, suddenly the dude is priced out of our range. And/or the guy will almost certainly not come here because .... "we suck" -- or some variant of that thinking. Likewise there will run a concurrent stream of thought that we need to shop down market because ... insert standard repertoire of cliche reasons. I've see it all before. Now, as to Norwell, I think he's a Pro Bowl level guy. He's actually never been elected to the Pro Bowl by the league. He may be an alternate for this year, IDK. But he was selected to the associated press' Pro Bowl team and apparently PFF also put him in their Pro Bowl list. My assertion of Pro Bowl was based on tape and by way of a cross-correlation to both of our Pro Bowlers, Trent W and Scherff. It wasn't because I read an article or something. My original post was back in December, at some point. * Notwithstanding, my approach, as I've detailed before, is to target attributes like physicality, even if that is at the expense of maneuverability, or otherwise, mobility. Just an example. In essence, sussing out Norwell is a departure from our predominate scheme of Zone. In fact he's a power-pull and Gap scheme type guy. But he actually doesn't lack any movement skills, which is the great thing. However, he's not the same kind-of smooth free runner that Luavoaoao is/was, which is the sort of template that this FO, Callahan and Bruce have been using. So further, it's not like Norwell was screaming association because I limited my search parameters to just predominate zone scheme teams. I mean, anyone here could promote any Baltimore linemen with ease because they are 1: not only a good organization at finding talented players, but 2: a team that gets physical type linemen with movement skills requisite for zone, especially outside zone stretch, which comprises Callahan's "bread and butter." That's why I went and looked at Hurst pretty early on. And why I included him in my shortlist. Likewise, since he's a backup, you can earmark him for Bruce's dollar tree shopping list. And then the zone connection, easy for the o-line coach to see. But that opens another can of things like Bruce's cheapness and the player not being as talented and etc. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Oh, and side note. The reason why I'm ok with paying a good price tag for a legit starter at Guard (for obvious and multitude of reasons) is because I'm not in favor of paying an even higher price tag for the typical large market-share cost of an equally good, starter level, WR. Let alone the cost for a Pro Bowl level WR. *Now, I could easily argue that Jarvis Landry is the exact WR who could unlock our offense. That he's the position of greater impact rather than boundary contrary to most commonly held believes on ES. He'd be ideal. However ... And I was someone that posted on Landry starting with his freshman year at LSU. He was "my guy" that draft when the Skins selected Trent Murphy instead of him in the 2nd round. So, please don't give the reasons why he's good at football. I know. * Many here promote that the team needs to spend "all" of it's money on WR. In actuality it would be more than Norwell at LG, if we're talking about starter level player for starter level player, in comparison. It's becuase you can actually spread more money around if going with Norwell at LG and still have coin for other positions like LB, RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 With Kirk going to take up more than half of currently available cap space do you see the Skins trying to restructure guys like Norman, Reed, Williams and Kerrigan? We could save 3.5 mil on Terrell McClain by making him a Jun 1 cut, maybe lower Colt McCoy's cap number by extending him a yea or two, he's on the last year of his contract 23 minutes ago, markmills67 said: My point was with the amount of holes we have on our roster, it would be hard to go all in on the best FA G available. In my opinion we need at least 2 RB, 2 WR, LG, 2DL, 2LB and at least 1 S. And possibly a C, and TE. If we can do all that and give Cousin's what he wants then I will be over the moon. HTTR Are you counting guys on the team we may re-sign? Cause I don't see near that many holes unless you're counting that? Even then I only see the need for 1 RB and 1 WR and 1 DL, from outside the team of all the guys you listed multiples for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 I wonder how much of our free agency approach is dependent on our own guys developing? I know we couldn't have predicted getting Allen in the first, but I do think we had thoughts about Lanier and Ioannidis developing into something similar to what they are now. Maybe that impacted our strategy going into free agency in terms of who we went after and what we offered. I bring that up not to re-hash last year's offseason, but in terms of wondering about what we may do, particularly at WR. We have quite a few young WRs - particularly with Doctson, Davis, and Harris. SImilarly we have some young RBs with Kelley, Perine, Bibbs, and Marshall. All these guys have shown some potential to be quality players if not more in this league (well, all but Davis who got a concussion on his first play). I wonder (and I'm not really suggesting this) if we play a lesser role in FA again and try to build in-house. Maybe not going completely silent but probably signing some players similar to the Mcs who have the potential to be dominant but have career histories of being more JAGs. It seems like its our (new) way to try to find value free agents other than maybe one big deal per offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordranger76 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 PFF has him (Norwell) listed as the 3rd best guard. Scherff is ranked 8th. All that equals is money. I do not see them signing Norwell if Cousins resigns due to the upping of Scherff soon. Long shot even if Cousins leaves. More than likely that would be a two highest paid guards in the league scenario and they aren't going to do that as much as I wish they would. I also thought that they went hard on Campbell last year but the Jags just outbid them. The Jags paid a small fortune for him. Sure its worked out for this year but you don't sign a monster deal with an aging player for good cap health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtremeFan55 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Interesting to see OL coach Callahan’s name on list. If his contract is up does anyone see him leaving to go back to Oakland under Jon Gruden? Would Jon be above raiding his brother’s team? Oakland seems to have a more stable franchise with greater potential than Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said: Interesting to see OL coach Callahan’s name on list. If his contract is up does anyone see him leaving to go back to Oakland under Jon Gruden? Would Jon be above raiding his brother’s team? Oakland seems to have a more stable franchise with greater potential than Redskins. I was actually wondering if they might end up trading with each other. Teams with connections do some times end up doing that. When Beathard went to San Diego he'd pick up some former Skins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 14 hours ago, markmills67 said: My point was with the amount of holes we have on our roster, it would be hard to go all in on the best FA G available. In my opinion we need at least 2 RB, 2 WR, LG, 2DL, 2LB and at least 1 S. And possibly a C, and TE. If we can do all that and give Cousin's what he wants then I will be over the moon. HTTR In my opinion, assuming we re-sign/tender some of our own (Brown, Grant, Everett, Nsheke, Murphy, etc.), the only positions I see as a ‘need’ are receiver, LG, and NT. I would address one of those three spots in FA, see what the draft brings, and then add accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtremeFan55 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 18 minutes ago, carex said: I was actually wondering if they might end up trading with each other. Teams with connections do some times end up doing that. When Beathard went to San Diego he'd pick up some former Skins Stan Humphries. He had some good years in San Diego. Drafted by Beathard while at Washington. Another one of those rare finds by Beathard from obscure Southern colleges....like Monte Coleman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 14 hours ago, carex said: With Kirk going to take up more than half of currently available cap space do you see the Skins trying to restructure guys like Norman, Reed, Williams and Kerrigan? We could save 3.5 mil on Terrell McClain by making him a Jun 1 cut, maybe lower Colt McCoy's cap number by extending him a yea or two, he's on the last year of his contract Are you counting guys on the team we may re-sign? Cause I don't see near that many holes unless you're counting that? Even then I only see the need for 1 RB and 1 WR and 1 DL, from outside the team of all the guys you listed multiples for The players who we had this year that we may or may not want back are currently FA's, so at the moment there position has not been filled. Some people on NFL forums are suggesting that we have one of the worst WR groups in the NFL, if you think we only need 1 WR then that's your opinion. Only one of our RB's is above average and that's Thompson and he is mainly a 3rd down back, and as for our DL we have only 2 quality starters and an average one in Mcgee, McClain needs to be released and we can't keep starting players off the street as starters. I know we had injuries but we need to get stronger depth wise. So I stand by my opinion of 2 players needed for each of these positions. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 15 hours ago, carex said: re you counting guys on the team we may re-sign? Cause I don't see near that many holes unless you're counting that? Even then I only see the need for 1 RB and 1 WR and 1 DL, from outside the team of all the guys you listed multiples for MAYBE Reed could make the Saints roster from any of our skill position players. They do have a good (and healthy) TE, though. Thats it. Not 1 of our other skill position players would even make the team as a backup. And you think we need 1 RB and 1 WR? You’re more optimistic than I. I’ve seen Gruden’s offense with no talent. It was bad. Let’s not just do the same thing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 45 minutes ago, markmills67 said: The players who we had this year that we may or may not want back are currently FA's, so at the moment there position has not been filled. Some people on NFL forums are suggesting that we have one of the worst WR groups in the NFL, if you think we only need 1 WR then that's your opinion. Only one of our RB's is above average and that's Thompson and he is mainly a 3rd down back, and as for our DL we have only 2 quality starters and an average one in Mcgee, McClain needs to be released and we can't keep starting players off the street as starters. I know we had injuries but we need to get stronger depth wise. So I stand by my opinion of 2 players needed for each of these positions. HTTR 23 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: MAYBE Reed could make the Saints roster from any of our skill position players. They do have a good (and healthy) TE, though. Thats it. Not 1 of our other skill position players would even make the team as a backup. And you think we need 1 RB and 1 WR? You’re more optimistic than I. I’ve seen Gruden’s offense with no talent. It was bad. Let’s not just do the same thing again. you have to give time for drafted people to develop or you may as well just trade all of them. The DL is one of the few places we didn't start someone from the streets. We have Allen, Ionaddis, Lanier came on once he started getting playing and Stacy .McGee is decent. Considering we only dress five DL, someone like Ziggy Hood, AJ Francis, Ondre Pimkins, or Montori Hughes can be our sixth. That leaves space for one guy I think Doctson will turn out alright and I haven't turned on Crowder. I also like Grant as a backup. Harris and Davis can get some more time to develop. Again, space for one guy. At TE, it depends on if we give up on Reed. If he stays we're not gunning for a top guy, we could use a blocker so we're going to give Sprinkle another chance. We might resign Paul, we might let him go At RB, I think we need a starter. Kelley and Perine can compete for the second spot and Bibbs or Marshall might stick as a backup to Thompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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