The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me I don't think its even close to being an apples to apples analogy and that's the core of my point and that's has nothing to do with comparing the type of incidents.  The Redskins here decided to inherit the problem just a few days after it happened without knowing guilt or innocence.  If Peterson was just accused of it a few days ago, spent a day in jail, Minny released him and the Redskins took over his rights as the league/legal system looked into it -- then it would be apples to apples.

 

I don't think Foster's guilt or innocent or comparing domestic violence to another thing is even relevant -- because there is no way the Redskins know about his guilt or innocence.  So to me the issue is should the Redskins absorb the hit and by some people's thoughts provide some sort of a positive validation to Foster by picking up his rights -- with the Redskins not knowing guilt or innocence.

 

If the two cases were apples to apples -- the difference to me would be it happened years ago for Peterson, he did the time to pay the crime.  This is as fresh as a daisy incident in Foster's case where if guilty he hasn't paid the price, yet.

 

That's fair and I don't have any issue with that outlook, because you're not getting into the morality of it, rather the headache the team is inheriting. If you disagree with that aspect it's tough for me to criticize. 

 

I don't AGREE with you, but your stance is completely logical and reasonable. My counter is that they can shed this distraction or "problem" at any time if it becomes more than they are comfortable handling...and with no repercussions. So, if morality isn't the issue, I viewed it as shrewd because there is a lot of potential upside with very little downside. 

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That's fair and I don't have any issue with that outlook, because you're not getting into the morality of it, rather the headache the team is inheriting. If you disagree with that aspect it's tough for me to criticize. 

 

 

I'd add there is a reason why there was very little national outcry when they signed Peterson versus when they signed Foster.  And IMO that had nothing to do with comparing the incidents and almost ALL to do with the timing of these incidents.  Both incidents elicit outrage.   But comparing one situation where it happened years before with the incident vetted and the culprit punished versus days later with the incident not vetted -- its night and day IMO. I don't even think that's a debate.  If you read a lot of the condemnation for this moving -- the timing of it is a big part of the intensity of it.

 

17 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I don't AGREE with you, but your stance is completely logical and reasonable. My counter is that they can shed this distraction or "problem" at any time if it becomes more than they are comfortable handling...and with no repercussions. So, if morality isn't the issue, I viewed it as shrewd because there is a lot of potential upside with very little downside. 

 

I think its a dumb move if the team cares about PR and image.  But if Chris Russell/Finlay among others are right and that Bruce doesn't care about PR/image than what the heck.   Personally, I don't like the move and what it represents. If on the other hand, he's exonerated or does his time to rehabilitate -- different story for me, I believe in 2nd chances.     Love Foster the player (albeit some of things I've heard about his play this year makes me pause a little on that front), so if its all about football where who cares about the rest, then nice move.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think its a dumb move if the team cares about PR and image.  But if Chris Russell/Finlay among others are right and that Bruce doesn't care about PR/image than what the heck. 

I think there is a difference between not caring about PR and simply being ignorant to it. If he didn’t care, he doesn’t tell the world his QB is a greedy traitor right before the start of a season.  If he’s ignorant to it, he does.  And we all know how that played out.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think there is a difference between not caring about PR and simply being ignorant to it. If he didn’t care, he doesn’t tell the world his QB is a greedy traitor right before the start of a season.  If he’s ignorant to it, he does.  And we all know how that played out.

 

Could be ignorance to it.  They are certainly very sloppy about it to say the least.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Supposedly the fake Chris Russell is really Chad Dukes

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think there is a difference between not caring about PR and simply being ignorant to it. If he didn’t care, he doesn’t tell the world his QB is a greedy traitor right before the start of a season.  If he’s ignorant to it, he does.  And we all know how that played out.

 

Well, there's caring about it and then there's allowing it to dictate decisions. I think you can care and want one thing...but maybe not consider it highly if you truly think you're making a wise move. 

 

Hell, Joe Banner (who everyone seems to respect) said just a year or two ago that when they brought Mike Vick in they made sure not to let fan backlash impact their decision. So, we have a well-respected football executive illustrating that teams are able to hear the backlash yet still hold true to what they think they need to do.  

BTW, I appreciate @BatteredFanSyndrome and @Skinsinparadise discussing this with me without calling me disgusting or telling me I have issues hahaha

 

I love mature conversation in here and was disappointed by some of the reactions yesterday. 

[Boss_Hogg]

19 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

Going to be blunt here.

 

I think Chris Russell is awful.

 

Maybe he's right. But I don't think he knows anything inside info that hasn't been passed on at least a few times from insiders. 

 

Jim Haslett was his guy. That's who leaked him info. I don't think he has anybody of value now. 

 

I'm not so sure about that. 

 

Chris was the first to break the story about Scot McCloughan not attending the rookie combine in 2017. He was also the first to report the rift between Scot and Bruce Allen.

 

Someone in that building is still talking to Chris Russell. 

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, wunderhill said:

if you drive somewhere (sober) with no intentions of drinking that means you are making a conscious decision in taking that first drink. I am not an addict or recovering one. As stated in a previous post my brother was killed by a drunk driver at age 21. I always hear the excuse well he was ****ed up and didnt know what he was doing. BS...so my question would be...what if it  came to light that foster was intoxicated when he allegedly hit a woman. does that make it less severe because he was impaired? My being an addict or not has zero bearing on what I understand. My brother didnt have a face left or any portion of his upper body and I got the unfortunate task of seeing that. I think I'm more than qualified to speak on the effects of drunk driving.

 

But you are woefully unqualified to speak on what it is to be an addict.

[Skinsinparadise]

Is he talking Redskins or just the world at large?   I presume-hope not the Redskins.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Is he talking Redskins or just the world at large?   I presume-hope not the Redskins.

 

 

I gathered who he was talking about would require conversation in the tailgate.  Still a wierd thing to say.

[Skinsinparadise]

Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I think Loverro is overly dramatic here.   But I agree with this point about the PR side of this albeit not to the degree he lays it out here but to me its just a another log among many logs in that fire.   And that PR-image actually might be an issue for this team.  I get we will watch and go to games regardless but there is definitely an audience that is diminishing of fans that aren't football nuts like us..  And Lafemina was hired specifically to try to fix that.  

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/29/redskins-franchise-s-now-beyond-salvation-after-pi/

On the white board in the office of Washington Redskins chief operating officer Brian Lafemina, you could find these words: “We have to do the right thing for 1,000 days and people are going to believe us.”

Well, at least this was on Lafemina’s white board at one time.

Now? Maybe this: “Please forward my mail.”

 

The LafeminaRedskins good will era came to an end Tuesday afternoon with the news that the organization he was brought in, along with a team of other suits, to save had yet again committed a self-destructive crime by picking up accused woman beater Reuben Foster, the former first-round pick who had been cut by the San Francisco 49ers after spending Saturday night in jail in Tampa following his third arrest in 12 months.

 

It’s over. Lafemina, the former NFL executive, won’t be here come 500 days, let alone 1,000.

The acquisition of Foster, who was immediately put on the NFL commissioner’s exempt list and won’t likely play a down for the Redskins this season while these latest domestic violence accusations are sorted out legally, damages everything that Lafemina and the other execs brought in this summer have been trying to do — save this franchise.

 

As long as Dan Snyder owns the team, it’s beyond salvation.

 

We don’t know who or how this decision was made within the organization. There are reports that it was a debated, divided decision, but senior vice president of player personnel Doug Williams went on Team 980 radio Thursday and declared everyone in the room was on board with the signing of the NFL’s new poster child for domestic violence.

 

If Lafemina was in that room, he was bound and gagged.

 

This is the 21st century, and when you have an organization that has suffered so much credibility and perception damage as the Redskins have now for decades — and you hire someone from the league office to come here and change that — you don’t make a so-called “football decision” like attaching yourself to an accused woman beater, without the input of the person charged with restoring credibility involved in that decision.

 

Does the notion of considering public relations in a football decision seem ridiculous to you? Do you really think the trade for quarterback Alex Smith, following the exit of Kirk Cousins, was purely a football decision?

 

Snyder and his team president, Bruce Allen, the Prince of Darkness, either didn’t include Lafemina or chose to ignore him. But make no mistake about it — you don’t make a move like this, one that no other team in the league was willing to make, particularly so quickly after Foster was behind bars, and not include the executive who was brought in to change the perception that has buried this football team.

 

Then again, this was bound to happen. Lafemina, who also has the title of president of business operations, spoke of things like transparency when he first met with reporters — a concept certainly not shared by Snyder and Allen. Did anyone really think that the two most powerful men in the organization were suddenly going to change the way they do business?

 

When Lafemina talked about his 1,000 day message in an interview with 106.7 The Fan, he said, “that’s what all of us here at Redskins Park, all of us on the business side, all of us on the football side, are trying to do. Come here every day, do honest work, think about our fans first, think about our marketplace first and then everyone is going to say I don’t even remember when we didn’t have great credibility.”

 

Honest work. Credibility. Any feeble attempts by Lafemina and company to repair either went down the tubes with the Foster claim, and the organization’s clumsy handling of it since – the failure of either Snyder or Allen speaking publicly about the signing, leaving their coach, Jay Gruden, to ask limited questions about it Wednesday afternoon. He had no real answers.

 

It was cowardly act for both Snyder and Allen to hide behind the statement the team issued, and then send Williams out to take the heat.

....Foster’s guilt or innocence — or how he could possibly help this team at linebacker someday — has no bearing on how bad a business decision this was. You have a core group of fans who won’t care about anything but the football aspect of the decision. Those are the ones left at Ghost Town Stadium. You can’t survive on that core. You need the casual fan to fill the empty seats at the stadium, and now they have one more reason to stay away – disgust. The Foster signing controversy made all three of the network nightly news programs Wednesday night.

 

The Redskins were one franchise that could not afford to bring in an accused woman beater — not when just several months ago, the Redskins were ground zero in the NFL’s cheerleading sexploitation scandal.

 

 

[Csup]

Lafemina got into bed with the devil and was burned.  Hope he wasn’t counting on a Christmas bonus.

[bh32]

No one will care in a couple months,it will blow over just like everything else.

[Dissident2]

I totally agree with Loverro about the absolute COWARDICE of Bruce Allen to not address the media himself but send his coach out there to field questions that are, for the most part, things the President/GM/WhateverTheHellHeIs should be answering. At the very least, he should've been there WITH Gruden to help him field some of these questions. What an absolute piece of utter garbage that guy is. No balls, no vision, no loyalty, no class. 

 

Lafemina seems like Frodo Baggins wandering through the depths of Mordor. Poor ****. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, bh32 said:

No one will care in a couple months,it will blow over just like everything else.

No doubt, they will do something stupid soon enough to make this old news.

[bh32]

3 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No doubt, they will do something stupid soon enough to make this old news.

you're probably right..lol. nothing surprises me anymore about this team.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No doubt, they will do something stupid soon enough to make this old news.

 

Well, at least until he's convicted of beating her and goes to jail. Or something.

 

I guess what I don't get is that people wonder why we get raked over the coals by the media, when we are doing **** like this all the time. Honestly, we've been a joke of a organization for decades, and this is part of the reason. We'd be all over the Cowboys if they did this, about how terrible they are and that Jerauh is a morally corrupt Skeletor. But we're supposed to get a pass, because...............reasons.

 

This isn't the kind of **** you do if you are trying to repair the brand.

[Wildbunny]

8 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

No doubt, they will do something stupid soon enough to make this old news.

Like cutting Alex Smith with an injury designation?

 

8 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Well, at least until he's convicted of beating her and goes to jail. Or something.

 

I guess what I don't get is that people wonder why we get raked over the coals by the media, when we are doing **** like this all the time. Honestly, we've been a joke of a organization for decades, and this is part of the reason. We'd be all over the Cowboys if they did this, about how terrible they are and that Jerauh is a morally corrupt Skeletor. But we're supposed to get a pass, because...............reasons.

 

This isn't the kind of **** you do if you are trying to repair the brand.

I would say that's because we are trying to sell FO that they've be trying to change with hirings like Lafemina and a few others lately.

 

Then you screw it all up.

 

Hell, they could even have gone with the football move and cover it better PR wise by doing a few more homeworks, saying they know the issue but there's grey area that cannot be underestimated, and so on... Then send the GM/TP in front of the presser to make a statement, answer questions, then say it's time to go back to football, and let the HC go with his own business...

 

They did a stupid move, without backing it up and are sending scapegoats to public anger... 

 

So, well, you can say that you changed, or you're trying, we're just showing we're not.

 

Just like Reuben Foster... 

 

[goskins10]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Now before anyone jumps down my throat, I think Loverro is overly dramatic here.   But I agree with this point about the PR side of this albeit not to the degree he lays it out here but to me its just a another log among many logs in that fire.   And that PR-image actually might be an issue for this team.  I get we will watch and go to games regardless but there is definitely an audience that is diminishing of fans that aren't football nuts like us..  And Lafemina was hired specifically to try to fix that.  

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/29/redskins-franchise-s-now-beyond-salvation-after-pi/

On the white board in the office of Washington Redskins chief operating officer Brian Lafemina, you could find these words: “We have to do the right thing for 1,000 days and people are going to believe us.”

Well, at least this was on Lafemina’s white board at one time.

Now? Maybe this: “Please forward my mail.”

 

Edit

 

 

Actually, I do not see it as overly dramatic at all. I think he is spot on. The primary statement is: "As long as Dan Snyder owns the team, it’s beyond salvation." 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Actually, I do not see it as overly dramatic at all. I think he is spot on. The primary statement is: "As long as Dan Snyder owns the team, it’s beyond salvation." 

 

 

 

 

 

He might have been with the implication that Lafemina is out the door and an emphasis as this incident as the backdrop  I do think its certainly possible that Lafemina leaves because the FO makes his job impossible and like Thom I also didn't agree with the signing.   But to me I see this as another log in the fire as for bad PR moves -- not sure this one as definitive as he does -- but its just the death by 1000 cuts way they go about their business and the signing is another cut.  Thom somewhat says the same thing but I think he a bit overemphasizes this event - though I do agree with him that the event certainly wasn't a good look.  

 

The point about Dan and the PR-image of the team I agree 100%.  Some people argue it doesn't matter and or they will recover from this.  And yeah they ultimately recover from everything they do but I agree with Thom that each misstep sinks them deeper with the more casual fans who aren't showing up to the stadium in the same way or even tuning into the games on TV the same way.  And the team is no longer the 2nd most valuable franchise in the NFL and continues to slowly slide behind other teams. 

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He might have been with the implication that Lafemina is out the door and an emphasis as this incident as the backdrop  I do think its certainly possible that Lafemina leaves because the FO makes his job impossible and like Thom I also didn't agree with the signing.   But to me I see this as another log in the fire as for bad PR moves -- not sure this one as as definitive as he does -- but its just the death by 1000 cuts way they go about their business and the signing is another cut.  Thom somewhat says the same thing but I think he a bit overemphasizes this event - though I do agree with him that the event certainly wasn't a good look.  

 

The bold is what I got out of it. I didn't read it as this signing would be the primary driver. 

 

This is another example of someone coming to the Redskins and not being allowed to do their best work. They are virtually forced to underachieve. At the head of all that? One Dan Snyder! 

 

If he is really the fan of the Redskins he says he is, the best thing he can do is sell the team. 

 

[DJHJR86]

Loverro made a good comparison on Sheehan's podcast yesterday.  He said that he thinks Williams status as a team icon will be tarnished by working in the FO with Snyder/Allen along the lines of Mike Flanagan with the Orioles.  At this rate, I'm inclined to agree with that trajectory.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

This is another example of someone coming to the Redskins and not being allowed to do their best work. They are virtually forced to underachieve. 

Quoted in hopes this part sinks in for some of our fans here.  It’s what many of us have been getting at for quite some time.  Fans want to tar and feather every head coach, quarterback or highly paid player that steps through the doors.  Not that they do no wrong, but they all have an uphill battle thats not seen by the naked eye.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

Loverro made a good comparison on Sheehan's podcast yesterday.  He said that he thinks Williams status as a team icon will be tarnished by working in the FO with Snyder/Allen along the lines of Mike Flanagan with the Orioles.  At this rate, I'm inclined to agree with that trajectory.  

 

I think some people overplay Doug's value in personnel.  I've heard just about every beat guy say Doug isn't driving really personnel decisions there.  But I do agree that Doug lends that front office seem needed class and integrity because the dude is a nice guy and is honest.   It's obvious (and beat guys have said calculated) that they know the media/fans love Doug and think he's a nice-honest guy and in turn they parade him out there to take the bullets when necessary.  And I agree it doesn't have the vibe that it will end well.

 

17 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

This is another example of someone coming to the Redskins and not being allowed to do their best work. They are virtually forced to underachieve. At the head of all that? One Dan Snyder! 

 

If he is really the fan of the Redskins he says he is, the best thing he can do is sell the team. 

 

 

Agree with both points.   

 

The QB issue/cap implications which multiple people who cover the team say it will have a dramatic impact on the team's future -- I think there is something to it.   I get people coming up with creative ways to release a bunch of players, rebuild and all these fun machinations that we can come up with that lead to an impression that hey just be creative with it and work around it.  But Dan doesn't do rebuilds.  Dan is dealing with an already shrinking audience at the stadium and on TV.  I think if they don't make the playoffs and the QB situation is unsettled with major cap implications.  We might see some of the old school Dan's actions where they can't cover them behind closed doors.  I think this off season might be wild.

[DJHJR86]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

It's obvious (and beat guys have said calculated) that they know the media/fans love Doug and think he's a nice-honest guy and in turn they parade him out there to take the bullets when necessary.  And I agree it doesn't have the vibe that it will end well.

 

Eh, maybe the older fans love Doug.  And maybe I'm biased because of my love for the Orioles and baseball in general, but I've never gotten the "Doug is a Skins legend" aura about him.  He started 17 games total for the Skins and had that amazing game in the Superbowl.  But so did Timmy Smith.