General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[Fan since a Fetus]

On 3/29/2023 at 10:15 AM, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I have cousins who live in France...when they came to visit several years ago they honestly told me that they thought actual cowboys still galloped around Texas all the time on horses. I'm not overly concerned with how that group views our safety - when they are getting everything from inflammatory headlines and TV shows.  

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Edited October 24, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[TD_washingtonredskins]

To @Fan since a Fetus and @Berggy9598 - I assumed it was obvious, but my cousins were clearly talking about the cowboys from old Westerns that they had seen on TV...riding through the open plains and shooting at Indians. Not some dude in a t-shirt who happens to be on a horse in the middle of a city. But, that was a nice emergency Google search...well done.

[Fan since a Fetus]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:25 AM, TD_washingtonredskins said:

To @Fan since a Fetus and @Berggy9598 - I assumed it was obvious, but my cousins were clearly talking about the cowboys from old Westerns that they had seen on TV...riding through the open plains and shooting at Indians. Not some dude in a t-shirt who happens to be on a horse in the middle of a city. But, that was a nice emergency Google search...well done.

.

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[TD_washingtonredskins]

20 minutes ago, Fan since a Fetus said:

i live here. It was a Google search for proof. It was more than a dude. Also, just because you have two dumbass cousins doesn’t mean other peoples opinions are invalid. 

**** you people and your guns! I wish y’all the worst.
 

 

What are you even talking about??

 

I'm not lobbying for no gun laws or increased gun violence. I was making the point that some random European's opinion on the state of the US shouldn't matter too much to those of us who live here. Why would it? That's like worrying about what a Saints fan thinks about the Commanders. Why does it matter? 

[Fan since a Fetus]

On 3/30/2023 at 10:57 AM, TD_washingtonredskins said:

What are you even talking about??

 

I'm not lobbying for no gun laws or increased gun violence. I was making the point that some random European's opinion on the state of the US shouldn't matter too much to those of us who live here. Why would it? That's like worrying about what a Saints fan thinks about the Commanders. Why does it matter? 

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Edited October 24, 2023 by Fan since a Fetus

[Berggy9598]

12 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

What are you even talking about??

 

I'm not lobbying for no gun laws or increased gun violence. I was making the point that some random European's opinion on the state of the US shouldn't matter too much to those of us who live here. Why would it? That's like worrying about what a Saints fan thinks about the Commanders. Why does it matter? 

In and of itself it doesn’t matter, but when you have a third elementary school shooting with more to come because nothing is being done, what do you expect the perception to be? My outrage stems from dead 1st graders needing DNA recognition because their bodies were ripped to pieces by a gun that’s a simple retail item in some states, rather than the mean things Europeans say. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Berggy9598

[bearrock]

10 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

What are you even talking about??

 

I'm not lobbying for no gun laws or increased gun violence. I was making the point that some random European's opinion on the state of the US shouldn't matter too much to those of us who live here. Why would it? That's like worrying about what a Saints fan thinks about the Commanders. Why does it matter? 

 

Foreigners' view of US gun problem can have a cascading effect on things like tourism, foreign student enrollment, employment recruitment, foreign investments just to name a few.  If the perspective is wrong, then government should work to correct negative views other countries and foreigners may have.  The problem is, can we really claim we don't have a gun violence problem that is unparalleled in comparison to the rest of the world?

[TD_washingtonredskins]

33 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

Foreigners' view of US gun problem can have a cascading effect on things like tourism, foreign student enrollment, employment recruitment, foreign investments just to name a few.  If the perspective is wrong, then government should work to correct negative views other countries and foreigners may have.  The problem is, can we really claim we don't have a gun violence problem that is unparalleled in comparison to the rest of the world?

 

No, you're right...we absolutely have a gun violence problem. We do. But, I think it gets overblown sometimes, despite it being inexcusable, preventable, and tragic. 

 

Look at the sheer volume of people in our country who die from things like drug-related deaths or eating themselves to death. Those numbers dwarf gun-related deaths. I'm not saying we can't fix both. I also know that somebody can't walk into a school and force-feed your child a Big Mac or opioid to force them to die, like with a mass shooting. 

 

I'm just saying that the perception of America as a scary country is overblown. The randomness of these acts is alarming, but it's important not to classify every inch of our nation like a dangerous war zone. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by TD_washingtonredskins

[Berggy9598]

46 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

No, you're right...we absolutely have a gun violence problem. We do. But, I think it gets overblown sometimes, despite it being inexcusable, preventable, and tragic. 

 

Look at the sheer volume of people in our country who die from things like drug-related deaths or eating themselves to death. Those numbers dwarf gun-related deaths. I'm not saying we can't fix both. I also know that somebody can't walk into a school and force-feed your child a Big Mac or opioid to force them to die, like with a mass shooting. 

 

I'm just saying that the perception of America as a scary country is overblown. The randomness of these acts is alarming, but it's important not to classify every inch of our nation like a dangerous war zone. 

How is your reaction to a third elementary school shooting: “things aren’t as bad as they look”? We deserve every bit of criticism that we get. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Berggy9598

[TheGreatBuzz]

Can those making claims about how our country is viewed provide a quick rundown of their experience to make these statements?  Please and thank you.

[Hersh]

52 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

No, you're right...we absolutely have a gun violence problem. We do. But, I think it gets overblown sometimes, despite it being inexcusable, preventable, and tragic. 

 

Look at the sheer volume of people in our country who die from things like drug-related deaths or eating themselves to death. Those numbers dwarf gun-related deaths. I'm not saying we can't fix both. I also know that somebody can't walk into a school and force-feed your child a Big Mac or opioid to force them to die, like with a mass shooting. 

 

I'm just saying that the perception of America as a scary country is overblown. The randomness of these acts is alarming, but it's important not to classify every inch of our nation like a dangerous war zone. 

we have an insane number of school shootings in this country. We are putting “weapons detectors” up in schools. We have active shooter drills in schools. So much is about fortifying schools. Nothing overblown about that. 
 

Aren’t gun deaths the leading killer of kids now surpassing auto accidents?

 

 

 

[Berggy9598]

6 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Can those making claims about how our country is viewed provide a quick rundown of their experience to make these statements?  Please and thank you.

Yes. Human beings are generally horrified at kids under 10 years being slaughtered in a classroom, and the natural reaction to a society that takes an elementary school shooting in stride will be a smidge on the negative side. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

Just now, Berggy9598 said:

Yes. Human beings are generally horrified at kids under 10 years being slaughtered in a classroom, and the natural reaction to a society that takes an elementary school shooting in stride will be a smidge on the negative side. 

 

I meant claiming to know how foreigners view us?  Experience? Read articles?  Etc.

[Berggy9598]

13 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I meant claiming to know how foreigners view us?  Experience? Read articles?  Etc.

Yep. Most of my family is in Israel and I’m still in touch with some friends from middle school and high school. Even with all the insanity going on in a country overflowing with problems, they can’t wrap their head around a society that continues to dance around a problem that allows children to be blown to bits in a classroom. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

19 minutes ago, Hersh said:

we have an insane number of school shootings in this country. We are putting “weapons detectors” up in schools. We have active shooter drills in schools. So much is about fortifying schools. Nothing overblown about that. 
 

Aren’t gun deaths the leading killer of kids now surpassing auto accidents?

 

 

 

I knew that would happen...I admitted it needs to be fixed and it's a problem, and someone immediately nitpicks one word. Here's an article that does a decent job articulating my point. 

 

https://time.com/5476998/risk-of-guns-america/

 

Gun violence is out of control and we need to find a way to reduce it. No doubt. But it's still overexaggerated most of the time it's discussed. You're not very likely to get shot walking down the street in America. If you think you are, you're wrong or dumb. Sorry. When you strip away emotion, if you truly want to protect the longevity of yourself and your loved ones, go ahead and be vigilant when it comes to guns...but you should also focus much more on teaching your kids about the dangers or drugs/alcohol, proper nutrition, etc. 

 

"Statistically, the average American has a greater risk of dying from heart disease or cancer than from a firearm, according to the National Safety Council. Car crashes also kill about the same number of people in the U.S. as guns do each year, CDC statistics show. In 2017, firearms killed 39,773 people and traffic deaths killed 38,659; in 2016, firearms killed 38,658 and traffic deaths totaled 38,748." 

 

Also, a big chunk of the "gun deaths" are self-inflicted. That's not a happy thing...I get it. But that's also not nearly the same conversation as mass shootings that are happening at random. 

 

"Most of the U.S. gun deaths in 2017 were suicides..."

 

 

From a psychological standpoint, experts say it’s easy to develop a fear of guns when mass shootings are carried out in what should be safe spaces, like schools and places of worship—and seemingly often. “People overestimate how likely it is to happen to them because they can easily think of an example,” says social psychologist Frank McAndrew. “When they think of how likely am I to be killed in a mass shooting, they can think of all the examples of mass shootings they’ve seen in the news.”

 

So, I'll continue to stand by my assertion that, though awful and tragic, yes they are overblown. Both things can be true. 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

11 minutes ago, Berggy9598 said:

Yep. Most of my family is in Israel and I’m still in touch with some friends from middle school and high school. Even with all the insanity going on in a country overflowing with problems, they can’t wrap their head around a society that continues to dance around a problem that allows children to be blown to bits in a classroom. 

 

Thanks.  So would you say that makes up the majority of your  opinions?

 

1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I knew that would happen...I admitted it needs to be fixed and it's a problem, and someone immediately nitpicks one word. Here's an article that does a decent job articulating my point. 

 

https://time.com/5476998/risk-of-guns-america/

 

Gun violence is out of control and we need to find a way to reduce it. No doubt. But it's still overexaggerated most of the time it's discussed. You're not very likely to get shot walking down the street in America. If you think you are, you're wrong or dumb. Sorry. When you strip away emotion, if you truly want to protect the longevity of yourself and your loved ones, go ahead and be vigilant when it comes to guns...but you should also focus much more on teaching your kids about the dangers or drugs/alcohol, proper nutrition, etc. 

 

"Statistically, the average American has a greater risk of dying from heart disease or cancer than from a firearm, according to the National Safety Council. Car crashes also kill about the same number of people in the U.S. as guns do each year, CDC statistics show. In 2017, firearms killed 39,773 people and traffic deaths killed 38,659; in 2016, firearms killed 38,658 and traffic deaths totaled 38,748." 

 

Also, a big chunk of the "gun deaths" are self-inflicted. That's not a happy thing...I get it. But that's also not nearly the same conversation as mass shootings that are happening at random. 

 

"Most of the U.S. gun deaths in 2017 were suicides..."

 

 

From a psychological standpoint, experts say it’s easy to develop a fear of guns when mass shootings are carried out in what should be safe spaces, like schools and places of worship—and seemingly often. “People overestimate how likely it is to happen to them because they can easily think of an example,” says social psychologist Frank McAndrew. “When they think of how likely am I to be killed in a mass shooting, they can think of all the examples of mass shootings they’ve seen in the news.”

 

So, I'll continue to stand by my assertion that, though awful and tragic, yes they are overblown. Both things can be true. 

 

 

I've pointed out several times that we would save more lives by making a breathalyzer standard in every vehicle than the strictest gun control would.  It usually isn't well received. 

[CobraCommander]

19 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I meant claiming to know how foreigners view us?  Experience? Read articles?  Etc.

My mother was born in France. Half my relatives are there. Some will come here for visits and others flat out refuse. Generally the sentiment is that they don't understand the gun obsession but they like the popular culture. A few of my cousins downright despise the US for a multitude of reasons, including perceived war mongering and for cultural reasons. 

 

I will say when I was younger, in the mid-nineties, I was revered by my peers when I went there. They would all ask me to say things in an American accent, like Michael Jordan, or Chicago Bulls.

 

I would say for a long time after WW2 and up until recently we were viewed rather positively in France. My grandfather seemed to revere our country. He was a high-ranking rocket scientist for the French government having worked on the guidance system for the Exocet missile. Upon his retirement he was allowed to rename the street he lived on and named it the Rue President Kennedy.

 

Rue du Président Kennedy, 92700 Colombes, France

 

On a lighter note, one of my cousins was perplexed that the Denver Nuggets were named after chicken from McDonalds. I explained to him they were in fact gold nuggets. Mind you this was at Bulls v. Nuggets game in Chicago. When the Bulls win and score over 100 points you win a free big mac and a bunch of people dressed as French fries and Big Macs come out on the floor and dance around, so I could understand his confusion. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

Thanks.  So would you say that makes up the majority of your  opinions?

 

 

I've pointed out several times that we would save more lives by making a breathalyzer standard in every vehicle than the strictest gun control would.  It usually isn't well received. 

 

Yeah. It doesn't seem to matter how much I caveat my point with agreeing that child deaths are awful, people can't remove emotion to just have a discussion. 

[CobraCommander]

4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

Thanks.  So would you say that makes up the majority of your  opinions?

 

 

I've pointed out several times that we would save more lives by making a breathalyzer standard in every vehicle than the strictest gun control would.  It usually isn't well received. 

The Mandatory In-Car Breathalyzer Is Only a Few Years Away (msn.com)

[China]

13 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

 

I've pointed out several times that we would save more lives by making a breathalyzer standard in every vehicle than the strictest gun control would.  It usually isn't well received. 

 

How do you come to that conclusion when DUI deaths total 10,000 per year and gun related deaths total more than 45,000 per year more than 4 times as many?

 

Edit:  the other thought I have is...why not both?

Edited March 30, 2023 by China

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, CobraCommander said:

The Mandatory In-Car Breathalyzer Is Only a Few Years Away (msn.com)

I also don't understand why there isn't an indicator on the car (similar to a brake light) when the driver's seat belt isn't fastened. Granted, not nearly as deadly as driving drunk, but still helps. 

[Captain Wiggles]

3 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I also don't understand why there isn't an indicator on the car (similar to a brake light) when the driver's seat belt isn't fastened. Granted, not nearly as deadly as driving drunk, but still helps. 

 

That would cost money. Corporations generally don't like spending money on stuff and things they don't consider essential. 

[Hersh]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I also don't understand why there isn't an indicator on the car (similar to a brake light) when the driver's seat belt isn't fastened. Granted, not nearly as deadly as driving drunk, but still helps. 

So this entire thread is just you trolling. That’s all I can determine after reading this. 

[bcl05]

A couple of points: 

1.  Some posters have been bringing up the relative similarity between car accident death and gunshot death numbers.  I think about this a bit differently.  The car death numbers relative to population used to be MUCH higher.  We, as a society, recognized that as a problem and starting addressing it.  Cars today are far safer than they used to be.  We have mandatory seatbelts and child seats and airbags.  We condemn driving while impaired and take license to drive from people who do it unsafely.  We have changed traffic laws.  We have had public ad campaigns emphasizing responsible driving.  These efforts have not eliminated automobile deaths, but they are significantly decreased.  Many thousands of unnecessary, tragic deaths have been avoided.. We have not taken a similar approach to gun deaths.  Obviously, no single thing will eliminate all gun deaths, but if we actually tried, could we get our deaths down to 20k a year?  10k?  Think of all the innocent lives not lost if we only tried.  The fact that the gun advocates/GOP won't even engage with any possible efforts to limit gun deaths shows me their callous disregard for human lives.

 

2.  The argument that many gun deaths are suicide does not mean that the gun itself is not part of the problem or that those deaths are not important.  Depression is a common an awful disease, but it does not have to be lethal.  People who are suicidal are far, far more likely to die if they have access to a gun than if they don't.  In most cases (not all, certainly), suicide attempts are not planned but are a rash decision when a depressive crisis is at its worst.  Most attempts are with whatever method people have on hand.   Most suicide attempts with pills, knives, etc are surivable.  Most people who OD on household pills get their stomach pumped, get their depression treated, recover, and come to regret their suicide attempt.  They go on to full, long lives.  The overwhelming majority of people who attempt suicide with a gun die.  If guns were less common, fewer people would die from suicide.  To make my point clear, guns do not make people suiciidal.  They do make people more likely to "succeed" in killing themselves.  Saving depressed people is also a valuable and important goal.    Side note - if you live with or love someone struggling with depression, please, please do not have guns accessible.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, China said:

 

How do you come to that conclusion when DUI deaths total 10,000 per year and gun related deaths total more than 45,000 per year more than 4 times as many?

 

Edit:  the other thought I have is...why not both?

 

So I searched my post history and the numbers have changed drastically since I made than assertion almost a decade ago.  But I was also warned not to make that thread (the old gun control one) the drunk driver thread.  So I'll leave it with this correction and opinion.

 

Way more people die by guns than drunk drivers.  The ration is far closer if you remove suicides but gun deaths still take it.  But the costs and ease of implementation could have started saving tens of thousands of lives years ago.  But that doesnt rile up the base as much.  And lack of mention of drunk driving in the constitution would pass muster with Thomas and the current, strict originalists wind of the court.

 

Why not both?  Sure, let's put 25% of the anti gum effort into mandatory blow and go's.

Edited March 30, 2023 by TheGreatBuzz
Stupid small phone keyboard