Active shooter at Ohio State U

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, TimmySmith said:

Interesting how the MSM is willing to report "active shooter" and be 100% wrong, but unwilling to report "Islamic Terrorist" because they aren't 1000% sure.

 

The constant bashing of the "MSM" is getting ****ing old and stale. You do realize that the alert sent out to students by Ohio State University specifically said "active shooter," right? That's what media reports picked up on and reported along with plenty of caveats that the situation was fluid and that not a lot of details were known.

But keep on trashing the "MSM," who hold themselves accountable for getting things right as best they can in an imperfect world while millions of people read fake news on Facebook and think "yeah that sounds right," as the President-elect of the United States tweets out any bull**** that pops into his head while employing an alt-right media mogul as his chief propagandist, er... strategist.

 

[tshile]

Im sure "active shooter" is code for certain protocol and therefore is used even when the person is using a car to run people over and a knife instead of a gun.

 

I'm also sure the main stream media sucks and is more interested in click bait than getting it right, but definitely still wants to hold on to the prestige of journalism even though they don't actually meet the standard. As such, they would advertise the situation as a shooting despite the decision makers being smart enough to understand the protocol issue as I outline above. Dont want to give up any potential clicks.

And I find the fact that you would even attempt to defend them, much less paint them as a victim in this situation, ****ing hilarious.

 

[Elessar78]

2 hours ago, TimmySmith said:

Interesting how the MSM is willing to report "active shooter" and be 100% wrong, but unwilling to report "Islamic Terrorist" because they aren't 1000% sure.

Even the thread title hasn't changed, even though it should have read "active shooter reported".  

 

It's not interesting. It's journalism.

There is a public interest in reporting "active shooter" because people in the vicinity can act on that information and keep themselves safe. Reporting "African American active shooter" does not add anything to the actionable report. 

"Islamic Terrorist" vs "Terrorist" does not add anything actionable. "Islamic Terrorist" also implies he is acting on behalf of Islam which has been refuted many times that these terrorists do not act on behalf of the 1 billion muslims worldwide. It's more or less coincidental that they happen to be terrorists and muslim. Just like Irish bombers were not Catholic Bombers—they were IRA Bombers. They did not represent Catholics as a whole. 

[Dan T.]

42 minutes ago, tshile said:

Im sure "active shooter" is code for certain protocol and therefore is used even when the person is using a car to run people over and a knife instead of a gun.

 

I'm also sure the main stream media sucks and is more interested in click bait than getting it right, but definitely still wants to hold on to the prestige of journalism even though they don't actually meet the standard. As such, they would advertise the situation as a shooting despite the decision makers being smart enough to understand the protocol issue as I outline above. Dont want to give up any potential clicks.

And I find the fact that you would even attempt to defend them, much less paint them as a victim in this situation, ****ing hilarious.

 

I think you are clueless about what motivates the men and women journalists of the "mainstream media."

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

Artan was profiled in the school's student-run newspaper's "Humans of Ohio State" series in August. He had just transferred from Columbus State and said he was struggling to find a place to pray in peace on the large campus.

“I wanted to pray in the open, but I was kind of scared with everything going on in the media. I’m a Muslim, it’s not what the media portrays me to be,” he is quoted in the paper as saying. “If people look at me, a Muslim praying, I don’t know what they’re going to think, what’s going to happen. But I don’t blame them. It’s the media that put that picture in their heads, so they’re just going to have it, and it — it’s going to make them feel uncomfortable.”

Artan was a legal permanent resident originally from Somalia, a US official said. He came to the country in 2014 with his family via Pakistan, a federal law enforcement official and a US official told CNN.

Artan left Somalia in 2007 with his family for Pakistan and they were admitted as refugees as part of a minority sect of Somalis, a senior administration official told CNN. Seven members of the family applied for refugee status in the United States and were admitted in 2014. Today, they are all legal permanent residents and green card holders.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/28/us/ohio-state-university-active-shooter/index.html

----------------------

The attack Monday came after the Islamic State had urged followers to imitate the truck attack that killed 84 people on Bastille Day in Nice, France.

“In a bid to ensure utmost carnage upon the enemies of Allah, it is imperative that one does not exit his vehicle during the attack,” ISIS said in the latest issue of its magazine, Rumiyah. “Rather, he should remain inside, driving over the already harvested kuffar [unbelievers], and continue crushing their remains until it becomes physically impossible to continue by vehicle. At this stage, one may exit the vehicle and finish his operation on foot, if he was able to obtain a secondary weapon. He could also remain in the vehicle, targeting pedestrians, the emergency services, or security forces who arrive at the scenes of just terror, until he is martyred.”

http://www.westernjournalism.com/reports-authorities-find-chilling-words-on-ohio-state-attackers-facebook-page/

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

So he was frustrated with the way Muslims are viewed by some so he decided to do something that would make them feel justified in those views?  Makes sense.

[tshile]

21 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

I think you are clueless about what motivates the men and women journalists of the "mainstream media."

You made that obvious with your hilarious attempt and painting them as a victim.

5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So he was frustrated with the way Muslims are viewed by some so he decided to do something that would make them feel justified in those views?  Makes sense.

So much for the exhaustive refugee vetting process.

 

[Dan T.]

11 minutes ago, tshile said:

You made that obvious with your hilarious attempt and painting them as a victim.

 

 

I painted nobody a victim.  I called out lazy, knee-jerk bashing of the "MSM."  But I'm glad you found it so amusing that you twice characterized it as "hilarious."  It's good that you are so easily amused.

[TradeTheBeal!]

When did Tshile become a troll?

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Dan T. said:

 

I painted nobody a victim.  I called out lazy, knee-jerk bashing of the "MSM."  But I'm glad you found it so amusing that you twice characterized it as "hilarious."  It's good that you are so easily amused.

Yeah you did, poor fake news on Facebook and trump tweets making media's job hard

Poor media. 

2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

When did Tshile become a troll?

Never!

But the accusation is funny considering all you do is post 1 liner attempt at wit.

 

[Dan T.]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

Yeah you did, poor fake news on Facebook and trump tweets making media's job hard

Poor media. 

 

That's actually the meaning you derived from my post?

 

Oy vey.

[JSSkinz]

10 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So he was frustrated with the way Muslims are viewed by some so he decided to do something that would make them feel justified in those views?  Makes sense.

 

 

 

And this is why the Muslim religion scares people, crazies who hurt people in the name of Allah.

 

A Somalian too, maybe they can do a side by side pic of the 11 wounded bodies next to that Somalian child and see which one hurts the most.

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, jschuck12001 said:

And this is why the Muslim religion scares people, crazies who run out and shoot people in the name of Allah.

 

A Somalian too, maybe they can do a side by side pic of the 11 dead bodies next to that Somalian child and see which one hurts the most.

What 11 dead bodies?

[JSSkinz]

Just now, TheGreatBuzz said:

What 11 dead bodies?

Wounded not dead, my fault.

[Koala]

13 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So he was frustrated with the way Muslims are viewed by some so he decided to do something that would make them feel justified in those views?  Makes sense.

Just confirms that his facebook posts (the shoestring linking him to Islamofascism that the media is so desperately hanging on to) are irrelevant.  I suspect everything about this guy's history is going to be irrelevant, except medical, drug, and family history of psychotic disorders....But that wouldnt have let CNN fill up their 24 hour news cycle with yet another islamic terror attack...its getting pretty pathetic actually....  

[Burgold]

20 hours ago, Elessar78 said:

It's not interesting. It's journalism.

There is a public interest in reporting "active shooter" because people in the vicinity can act on that information and keep themselves safe. Reporting "African American active shooter" does not add anything to the actionable report. 

"Islamic Terrorist" vs "Terrorist" does not add anything actionable. "Islamic Terrorist" also implies he is acting on behalf of Islam which has been refuted many times that these terrorists do not act on behalf of the 1 billion muslims worldwide. It's more or less coincidental that they happen to be terrorists and muslim. Just like Irish bombers were not Catholic Bombers—they were IRA Bombers. They did not represent Catholics as a whole. 

I'll slightly disagree here. When I was the senior producer at a radio news station and an event like this happened (and it sadly did too often) we had too weigh what was known versus what was believed in our reports in real time. "Active" is the most important part, because it tells people to be careful or stay away. "Shooter" is also important. Now, if during the fog of war phase we learn that the "Active Shooter" is in a blue minivan that needs to be known so people can keep a look out. Likewise, if they are 6'5" or 4'6", Black, White, Asian, Middle Eastern, etc. That's good info. Thing to keep in mind is that very often during the active phase you have very little reliable information and much of what you are getting is contradictory. Which rumor do you trust because facts are scarce.

 

You certainly don't know the "Active Shooter" is an Islamic Terrorist" That's very specific. You might know that he looks Iranian or Afghani, but often not even that. Someone might have seen a Red Neck looking white guy with an automatic rifle strapped to his back in the area just before the shooting event at the Mosque. Is that relevant? Is it coincidental? Is it even true? Misreporting an active shooter situation could cause people to fall into greater harm.

 

I can also say that when these situations happened newsrooms cooperated. Local papers or stations would come on our air to tell what they knew. This never starts as a ratings grab. It's purer and better.

 

Like I said earlier, don't give in to easy cynicism. It leads to apathy, inaction... and in this case, being ill informed and likely to make mistakes or cause harm. The literal definition of prejudice is to pre-judge. Declaring information that you don't know like the motive of the shooter is very much pre-judging.

[grego]

21 hours ago, Elessar78 said:

It's not interesting. It's journalism.

There is a public interest in reporting "active shooter" because people in the vicinity can act on that information and keep themselves safe. Reporting "African American active shooter" does not add anything to the actionable report. 

"Islamic Terrorist" vs "Terrorist" does not add anything actionable. "Islamic Terrorist" also implies he is acting on behalf of Islam which has been refuted many times that these terrorists do not act on behalf of the 1 billion muslims worldwide. It's more or less coincidental that they happen to be terrorists and muslim. Just like Irish bombers were not Catholic Bombers—they were IRA Bombers. They did not represent Catholics as a whole. 

 

there are a couple of things you would have to look at to determine why someone does something like this- what they themselves say, and upon what authority are they acting. is there an ideological precedent, or basis, for what they are doing? or is it completely separate or opposite from it- as if they were just simply a mentally unstable psychopath.

[TheGoodBits]

21 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

So he was frustrated with the way Muslims are viewed by some so he decided to do something that would make them feel justified in those views?  Makes sense.

 

Worth noting that this is EXACTLY the reason why Obama and Clinton don't use the phrase "radical Islamic terrorism," much to the ire of Trump's supporters. Making young muslims feel excluded from society, helping terrorists create that false us vs them narrative, it's nothing but a recruiting tool.

[TimmySmith]

22 hours ago, Dan T. said:

But keep on trashing the "MSM," who hold themselves accountable for getting things right as best they can in an imperfect world while millions of people read fake news on Facebook and think "yeah that sounds right," as the President-elect of the United States tweets out any bull**** that pops into his head while employing an alt-right media mogul as his chief propagandist, er... strategist.

 

There actually is no more MSM there is only the so-called MSM.   So many reported that Trump made a "baseless accusation" the other day.  Why did they all use the phrase "baseless accusation"?  From Huffington Post to NBC News.  That is an editorial comment, not news.   Too bad that today's generation can't tell the difference.  

 

Some redneck praises Trump and suddenly it's reported that the KKK is behind him, some Muslim praises ISIS, and rams his car into students and he's not a terrorist because the media cannot establish an ironclad link.  

 

Fake news didn't start on FB.

[TheGoodBits]

3 minutes ago, TimmySmith said:

There actually is no more MSM there is only the so-called MSM.   So many reported that Trump made a "baseless accusation" the other day.  Why did they all use the phrase "baseless accusation"?  From Huffington Post to NBC News.  That is an editorial comment, not news.   Too bad that today's generation can't tell the difference.  

 

Some redneck praises Trump and suddenly it's reported that the KKK is behind him, some Muslim praises ISIS, and rams his car into students and he's not a terrorist because the media cannot establish an ironclad link.  

 

Fake news didn't start on FB.

 

So your view is that news orgs should just report on what a politician says, but they shouldn't report on whether or not that statement is true? That's not news. That's propaganda. 

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, TimmySmith said:

There actually is no more MSM there is only the so-called MSM.   So many reported that Trump made a "baseless accusation" the other day.  Why did they all use the phrase "baseless accusation"?  From Huffington Post to NBC News.  That is an editorial comment, not news.   Too bad that today's generation can't tell the difference.  

 

Some redneck praises Trump and suddenly it's reported that the KKK is behind him, some Muslim praises ISIS, and rams his car into students and he's not a terrorist because the media cannot establish an ironclad link.  

 

Fake news didn't start on FB.

 

Do you realize there is no factual basis for Trump's claim that millions voted illegally? It was the very definition of a baseless accusation. Fact. Not opinion.

 

Do you realize that the national newspaper of the KKK endorsed Donald Trump? Do you realize that all major news organizations reported the Ohio State attacker's statements he made prior to the attack?

 

Edward R. Murrow isn't rolling in his grave, he's weeping in there. 

[Chew]

Look man, I'm sorry the kid felt the way he did.  It sucks that people get teased and stereotyped because of their faith.  But at the end of the day, this was just a cornball ass kid who couldn't nut up and deal with adversity.  He's no different than the gump ass Columbine kids. Weak young adult who couldn't deal with life.  But instead of eating a bullet, he decided to try and hurt people.  So I'm glad he's dead and I hope it hurt.  

[grego]

6 minutes ago, youngchew said:

Look man, I'm sorry the kid felt the way he did.  It sucks that people get teased and stereotyped because of their faith.  But at the end of the day, this was just a cornball ass kid who couldn't nut up and deal with adversity.  He's no different than the gump ass Columbine kids. Weak young adult who couldn't deal with life.  But instead of eating a bullet, he decided to try and hurt people.  So I'm glad he's dead and I hope it hurt.  

 

was that why he did it? what do you make of his facebook post (if what weve read is accurate, that this was his facebook post) where he explains his reasoning?

[tshile]

@Burgold I think what you said makes perfect sense.

I would add, though, that once you move past the initial situation into analyzing it (once we have facts) there is a definite value in using the term Islamic extremist. It's a convenient way to characterize a set of motives and I think motive is important.

Much like using White nationalist, or supremacist, or neo nazi or other descriptors provide value.

I do recognize the term is used by many, from people to pundits to lobbyists and politicians, in a reckless way that is dangerous (or at best ignorant) and that's unfortunate.

[Burgold]

39 minutes ago, tshile said:

@Burgold I think what you said makes perfect sense.

I would add, though, that once you move past the initial situation into analyzing it (once we have facts) there is a definite value in using the term Islamic extremist. It's a convenient way to characterize a set of motives and I think motive is important.

Much like using White nationalist, or supremacist, or neo nazi or other descriptors provide value.

I do recognize the term is used by many, from people to pundits to lobbyists and politicians, in a reckless way that is dangerous (or at best ignorant) and that's unfortunate.

I'm okay with that as long as it is used accurately and reasonably. It's good to realize though that these terms are loaded guns. Not every police killing is a reaction to police abuse and injustice, for example. Some are just bad guys acting bad. On the same side of the coin, cop killing should not be depicted as noble or heroic or even a statement. Making casual linkages are not helpful. It's useful to understand how events act as catalysts, but that should not be the end of the story or our thinking process. That's why I'm wary of labels. With this in mind, not every person of Islamic descent is acting as an agent or dupe of a terrorist group... Sometimes, people who commit atrocities who are of the Islamic faith are not even terrorists just bat **** crazy. 

 

What I used to tell the reporters who worked for me was that our job was to be perfect. It's an impossible standard, but that's the minimum expectation. You can't get your facts wrong. You can't create or add to the confusion, because people will listen to you and believe you. Your words can cause harm. They can also heal. If you can not be absolutely certain of your facts make that clear in your piece or your article... also, attribute the info to someone. This isn't a fact your reporting... it's someone's opinion or it's someone's eyewitness account.

 

That said, when you choose to use a label make sure it fits. Many of us use labels out of sheer laziness. It's easier to use a catch phrase because it short cuts thinking. You can just lump things into a category and be done with it. Some people do fall into those tidy little boxes, but if your job is to be perfect you should not allow yourself to be lazy. That last is what I find much more troubling about the modern Cable News model. They don't research, they don't investigate. Instead, they frequently get a cabal of analysts who are paid to spout uninformed or barely informed, often sensational opinions. Gone is the person on the ground. Gone is the person talking to twenty people before filing a report or digging through years of documents. 

 

In the rush to air, you have a rush to judgment that gives you watered down news. Perhaps that's why some get hung up on labels. When given pablum what's wrong with sticking a label on it. I was trained to do better. Bluefood is being trained in the same vein today. It's tougher, but better. 

 

I guess that's a long way of saying, I'm not opposed to labels being used when they really do fit, but I want them very carefully measured because I'd rather have a couple of paragraphs about history, motives, connections, etc. than a three word catch phrase that really doesn't tell you much other than... he's part of the "other". So, if you need to say Islamic Extremist than say that, but then give me another page or at least a few inches about what that actually means because by itself... it doesn't mean all that much as there are many flavors of Islam and in lumping them all together we move further not closer to a solution.

 

Edit: I'll give another example from my own pool of prejudice. If you use the word Nazi all I hear is evil even though a German soldier once saved my Grandmother's and Mother's life. That word means the story's over. That person means ill, is hateful, and a destructive, detestable, and vile piece of ****. I'm aware of that. I'm even aware that it is slightly unfair and these people are capable of good deeds or compassion or even humanity, but by and large, if they are Nazis they are fundamentally and completely evil. The book on them in my mind shuts. 

 

Now in the newsroom, a Neo Nazi march is called that. You're right, Tshile. That's how you label it, but I also know two additional things. One... I'm not the appropriate person to cover that event and two we need to do more than just call it that... even though for most reasonable people the label tells you everything you need to know.