The Gun Control Debate Thread

[Renegade7]

17 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Do they?  Like from a legal perspective?  

 

That depends on the locality what legal perspective we're talking about.  If the lease says they have the right to feel safe, she loses, if apartment complex doesn't allow firearms, she loses, did she tell them she didn't have a gun and they found out she did, she loses.  There wasn't even enough information to say she was on the lease, just sharing the rent, so she ultra loses because the lease doesn't protect her right to be there (already been through that in Virginia).

[PleaseBlitz]

10 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Not to derail but I got fired from my job recently. They said I’d been drinking before coming in. I told my coworker to tell them I hadn’t but he wouldn’t vouch for me. Do I have any legal recourse here?

 

edit: if it matters, I did have a few drinks.

 

I'd speak with a for-real employment lawyer; it may depend on what state you live in.  More generally, I can only opine on meaningless bull**** like gun-toting Harvard tramps, I can't give you for-real legal advice.  

16 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That depends on the locality what legal perspective we're talking about.  If the lease says they have the right to feel safe, she loses, if apartment complex doesn't allow firearms, she loses, did she tell them she didn't have a gun and they found out she did, she loses.  There wasn't even enough information to say she was on the lease, just sharing the rent, so she ultra loses because the lease doesn't protect her right to be there (already been through that in Virginia).

 

Also, regarding the roommates going through her ****:  Legally, they probably leased the apartment collectively, so all of the roommates have the legal right to access the entire apartment.  It's just a commonly held norm that a person's room is their room and the other people should stay out, it's probably not, legally speaking, only the one roommates room.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

39 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Yea, we have several lawyers here.  I'm one of them.  

Yea yea, I know.  On the internet, everyone is a lawyer.

 

/sarcasm

 

Do you know enough about this field to say confidently your position is right?  If so, I'd say that's some bull****.  I don't think that is right.

28 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

You’re gut doesn’t know more than the experts? What kind of Republican are you?

My gut knows the difference between you're and your.  

 

And I haven't been a Republican in a few years.

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

That depends on the locality what legal perspective we're talking about.  If the lease says they have the right to feel safe, she loses, if apartment complex doesn't allow firearms, she loses, did she tell them she didn't have a gun and they found out she did, she loses.  There wasn't even enough information to say she was on the lease, just sharing the rent, so she ultra loses because the lease doesn't protect her right to be there (already been through that in Virginia).

Yea, I think we need more info than the article provides (what the lease says to start with) so we can only debate how it should be.  And I don't think we agree there.

[PleaseBlitz]

4 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Yea yea, I know.  On the internet, everyone is a lawyer.

 

/sarcasm

 

Do you know enough about this field to say confidently your position is right?  If so, I'd say that's some bull****.  I don't think that is right.

My gut knows the difference between you're and your.  

 

 

I wouldn't have posted the original reference to this story, and a GTFO gif, if i wasn't confident that my position in the inevitable discussion that was going to follow, was correct.  

Edited December 4, 2018 by PleaseBlitz

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Yea, I think we need more info than the article provides (what the lease says to start with) so we can only debate how it should be.  And I don't think we agree there.

Agree we need more facts, what opinion we disagreeing on here?  That roommates have right to know if another roommate has a gun?

[TheGreatBuzz]

3 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I wouldn't have posted the original reference to this story, and a GTFO gif, if i wasn't confident that my position in the inevitable discussion that was going to follow, was correct.  

Okay.  Is that something location would affect?  Like does this same thing happen in Texas?  Also, you mentioned something about not being able to refuse to rent to a veteran.  I know there are protected classes against discrimination (race, religion, etc).  I believe veteran isn't one.  So how is it they are protected?  Then where is the line?  Going to an extreme example, I can't refuse to rent to a vet with PTSD who just seems really off to me but I can to someone who legally and responsibly has a firearm?  What if the roommate was a police officer?  Note:  Not trying to argue here.  Genuinely interested since you seem to know.

 

From a broader perspective, I would support this if she was leaving it unsecured or something.  If not, I think it is wrong.  I also think it is a slippery slope regarding someone doing something legal and safely (we are assuming here a lot so we will go with a hypothetical situation instead of this one since we don't have enough details.

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

Agree we need more facts, what opinion we disagreeing on here?  That roommates have right to know if another roommate has a gun?

I disagree but not enough to the extent I would bother discussing.  I disagree that a person should be able to be kicked out for legally and responsibly exercising a right (assuming she kept it locked up, etc) assuming she wasn't blatantly violating something in the lease.  And I don't think "safe and peaceful place" or whatever should meet that burden.

[Renegade7]

9 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I disagree but not enough to the extent I would bother discussing.  I disagree that a person should be able to be kicked out for legally and responsibly exercising a right (assuming she kept it locked up, etc) assuming she wasn't blatantly violating something in the lease.  And I don't think "safe and peaceful place" or whatever should meet that burden.

 

I want to agree with you bad, but we are just two people in a sea of 350 Million.  She's from Alabama, welcome to Boston.  

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

33 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

And I haven't been a Republican in a few years.

Just cause you’re former party hasn’t been Republican for many years doesn’t mean that your not one still.

37 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

My gut knows the difference between you're and your.

One time mistake.

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Just cause you’re former party hasn’t been Republican for many years doesn’t mean that your not one still.

I'm not actually even sure what you're saying here.  

 

While I ponder it, I suggest you read the info found by clicking this link:

https://writingexplained.org/your-vs-youre-difference

[Renegade7]

@TheGreatBuzz Didn't think you liked my response, and I didn't either.  But its the truth, man, you have to respect people's differences, especially if you're in a situation where you are staying in their place.  She should have told them, everything comes back to that, this never would've happened if she told them first.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

8 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

https://writingexplained.org/your-vs-youre-difference

It’s really ambiguous. Which of these would you guess is correct?

a. Your eyes are green

b. You’re eyes are green

[TheGreatBuzz]

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

@TheGreatBuzz Didn't think you liked my response, and I didn't either.  But its the truth, man, you have to respect people's differences, especially if you're in a situation where you are staying in their place.  She should have told them, everything comes back to that, this never would've happened if she told them first.

I get it.  And we don't know who's place it was.  Were they all equal roommates?  Were they subletting to the girl in the article, etc?  Again, more details needed.

 

I'm of the mindset that if a person has a problem with something that is legal/not violating lease/not being a dirty ****/etc, then you are the one who should move.  I'll say if I was in that girl's position, I wouldn't have moved.  I would have taken to court.  And if it would have looked like I was gonna lose, I'd call in the NRA.  They occasionally defend a position I agree with.  

6 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

It’s really ambiguous. Which of these would you guess is correct?

a. Your eyes are green

b. You’re eyes are green

B is more correct.  

 

It really isn't ambiguous at all.  Did you read the link?  Here is a quick way to tell which you should use:  

 

Read whatever line you are going to write and replace "you're" with "you are" and if it doesn't sound correct, use "your".  "You're" is a contraction of "you are".

Edited December 5, 2018 by TheGreatBuzz
correction

[tshile]

I don’t know which one if either of you is joking 

 

I don’t understand why someone can get kicked out (legally) over that. I’d love to see the nra fight it. I have no legal understanding of the situation, it just doesn’t make sense to me. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

6 minutes ago, tshile said:

I don’t know which one if either of you is joking 

I'm not joking.  To me, it is like meeting in the middle on common sense gun control.  I get you may not like guns and being around them.  So expecting that person to have their gun reasonably secure (safe, lock box, etc) is a fair middle of the road compromise.  Saying she must move because she has a gun is like saying she must move because she owns liquor.  If she always stumbles around drunk, you may have a case.  But just saying you don't like it in the residence shouldn't be enough to kick someone out.

[tshile]

Agreed. If they were asking to be let out of the lease so they could move, I could see that as completely reasonable. 

 

Forcing someone else to move when they’re following the law seems absurd (absence something additional, like excess)

 

 

this is what happens when lawyers write laws. 

 

 

Also blows my mind that “equal access to the house” because everyone signed the lease as a group equates to “I can rummage through your things”. So because you co-sign on a lease you lose your privacy? 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2018 by tshile

[Renegade7]

29 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I get it.  And we don't know who's place it was.  Were they all equal roommates?  Were they subletting to the girl in the article, etc?  Again, more details needed.

 

I'm of the mindset that if a person has a problem with something that is legal/not violating lease/not being a dirty ****/etc, then you are the one who should move.  I'll say if I was in that girl's position, I wouldn't have moved.  I would have taken to court.  And if it would have looked like I was gonna lose, I'd call in the NRA.  They occasionally defend a position I agree with.  

 

They might win the case, but they will lose in the court of public opinion at the same time.  Same reason I said she should just leave, its not worth it.

[tshile]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

They might win the case, but they will lose in the court of public opinion at the same time.  Same reason I said she should just leave, its not worth it.

 

She lost/won whoever there was to lose/win when it was announced she owns a gun. 

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

They might win the case, but they will lose in the court of public opinion at the same time.  Same reason I said she should just leave, its not worth it.

I'm not sure you are correct regarding the court of public opinion.  I bet it would be a 50/50 split or so.  

 

Pretty much what Tshile said.

 

Edit:  As someone that is anti-GOP and has supported common sense gun reform, they would still have won with me.  How many people do you think are to the right of me?

Edited December 5, 2018 by TheGreatBuzz

[tshile]

15 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

But just saying you don't like it in the residence shouldn't be enough to kick someone out.

 

Swap gun with something else and then envision how you see reactions changing. 

 

“Roommates rummage through room, find out <>, kick her out citing right to comfortable living environment”

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

Just now, tshile said:

 

Swap gun with something else and then envision how you see reactions changing. 

 

“Roommates rummage through room, find out <>, kick her out citing right to comfortable living environment”

 

That's why I used the example of alcohol.  

 

Imagine if location was reversed and this happened at a place in Alabama.

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

She lost/won whoever there was to lose/win when it was announced she owns a gun. 

 

Not sure I follow, I'm open ears though.

[tshile]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

Not sure I follow, I'm open ears though.

 

The court of public opinion was formed on this when it was decided a gun was involved.  There’s nothing to win/lose by fighting it, it’s been decided. 

 

I guess i was just commenting that she didn’t save herself anything by not fighting it (except time and maybe money?)

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I'm not sure you are correct regarding the court of public opinion.  I bet it would be a 50/50 split or so.  

 

Pretty much what Tshile said.

 

Edit:  As someone that is anti-GOP and has supported common sense gun reform, they would still have won with me.  How many people do you think are to the right of me?

 

Here's the thing, I'm sure 50% would be fine with someone having a gun in their house and not telling them. To me, that's not the same as 50% of the population saying if their roommates find out they have a gun without telling them their roommates should just deal with it.  That makes for an incredibly awkward situation, especially considering the possible varying opinions in the household.  We're asking the wrong question about which opinions and rights matter, its what's best for the collective.  If the entire apartment wants you to leave because you didn't tell them you have a gun, leave, don't call the NRA to fight for your right to stay, that will just make it worse, regardless of where the law lands.  These are people she has to live with, not people on facebook she has arguments with and never meets.

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

Swap gun with something else and then envision how you see reactions changing. 

 

“Roommates rummage through room, find out <>, kick her out citing right to comfortable living environment”

 

 

Don't think you can do that in this case, even if I get your point.  A gun is made specifically to kill people, so that's not the same as finding a bottle of liquor, drugs, or anything like that.  This day in age, where people are flipping and killing people left and right, if someone doesn't want another person with a gun in their house, I feel that should be respected.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

The court of public opinion was formed on this when it was decided a gun was involved.  There’s nothing to win/lose by fighting it, it’s been decided. 

 

I guess i was just commenting that she didn’t save herself anything by not fighting it (except time and maybe money?)

 

Unfortunately, yes, public saw the headline and said "you had a gun and didn't tell anyone?", not that they went through her stuff and found it.  Both are dead wrong, imo, but she is better off people not talking about her MAGA hat.  She'll get labels like not being culturally sensitive or some crap, when no, she's just from Alabama and I'm sure they don't think anything of this **** (renting a place and not telling someone you have a gun).

 

Everything up to this feels wrong, the whole thing feels wrong, but in a vacuum, if you rent from or with someone who doesn't want guns in their place and they find out you have one without telling them, I don't expect that to go well.  No one should. 

 

Guns may be protected by rights, but that doesn't equal them to something like finding gay porn under your roommate's bed (which people shouldn't be snooping for, either).

[TheGreatBuzz]

8 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Here's the thing, I'm sure 50% would be fine with someone having a gun in their house and not telling them. To me, that's not the same as 50% of the population saying if their roommates find out they have a gun without telling them their roommates should just deal with it.  That makes for an incredibly awkward situation, especially considering the possible varying opinions in the household.  We're asking the wrong question about which opinions and rights matter, its what's best for the collective.  If the entire apartment wants you to leave because you didn't tell them you have a gun, leave, don't call the NRA to fight for your right to stay, that will just make it worse, regardless of where the law lands.  These are people she has to live with, not people on facebook she has arguments with and never meets.

I get that is not the same.  And I'm saying I would still have sided with the gun owner.  Now we don't know if the other roommates asked if she had a gun, either before she moved in or after.  If before, I could maybe support not renting to her.  If it is that important to them, they should have asked before.  After she moved in?  Tough ****.  Like I said, I'm good with requiring it to be locked up.  I'm not good with setting a precident that a person can be forced to move just because they are a responsible gun owner.

 

10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Everything up to this feels wrong, the whole thing feels wrong, but in a vacuum, if you rent from or with someone who doesn't want guns in their place and they find out you have one without telling them, I don't expect that to go well.  No one should. 

 

Guns may be protected by rights, but that doesn't equal them to something like finding gay porn under your roommate's bed (which people shouldn't be snooping for, either).

What if they didn't ask before moving in?  And if it is that important, why now put it in the lease?