Florida State QB DeAndre Johnson hits Woman VIDEO

[PokerPacker]

What are you guys not understanding about the fact that making a fist is not "violence?"  It is not "violent contact?"  Your threat assessment of this female is unreasonable by any logical and/or reasonable standard out there.

So ****ing a fist is non-violent, but restraining a fist ****ed at you is violent?

 

And I'll be straight up:  the logic you guys are using in your attempt to claim she was a legitimate threat to a huge man is extremely scary. I'm not accusing you guys of being bad or violent men at all, please understand that.  But please also understand that this is undeniably the exact same logic used by the perpetrator in many cases of domestic violence against women.

And how about all of those domestic violence cases where the woman beats on the man and he gets sent to jail because he's bigger therefore the "primary aggressor" even though she would beat him, block his retreat, throw stuff at him, etc.. Do we care about perpetrators of domestic violence against men?

[tshile]

.but don't be surprised when the person you grab beats the crap out of ya cause you initiated contact first.

 

Oh the irony.

 

This is what the rest of us have been saying... ffs.

[grego]

she was wrong to punch him, no doubt. 

 

AND

 

he was wrong to punch her, no doubt.

 

ok. my work here is done. 

 

(seriously, it is actually possible for both parties to have acted poorly. yet, for some reason, we love a boogeyman)

[Special K]

So ****ing a fist is non-violent, but restraining a fist ****ed at you is violent?

 

Making a fist does not involve physical contact.  Restraining a fist involves physical contact.  I'm sorry, but where are we having the disconnect on this?  I don't think I even want to delve into the leaps in logic you have made about her fist or what was going through her mind by watching a short segment of a silent surveillance video.

And how about all of those domestic violence cases where the woman beats on the man and he gets sent to jail because he's bigger therefore the "primary aggressor" even though she would beat him, block his retreat, throw stuff at him, etc.. Do we care about perpetrators of domestic violence against men?

I don't know, perhaps you can show me some overwhelming statistics about these cases?  Also, maybe some statistics about how many men a year die from domestic violence compared to women?

 

Further, I did not say anything about not caring about men in domestic violence situations, did I?  Again, here's your leap in logic reaction coming into play.  Of course I care about men being victims of domestic violence...those situations happen a hell of a lot less, however.

[MorrisFan46]

I hate this. The kid was acting in self defense.

I live in southern MS. Down here, women know that if they want to bow up/hit a man, they better be ready for retaliation.

Now we aren't women beaters, but we are gonna treat women equal like they want. If they want to fight, we aren't gonna stand for it. The women don't complain when they get their *** kicked. The men don't complain when they get their *** kicked (it happens more than ya think). That's just how it goes.

I'm against domestic violence and if a man comes home every day to beat on his wife, he should be punished. This guy shouldn't.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Oh the irony.

 

This is what the rest of us have been saying... ffs.

 

 

Whoa, don't quote part of my response lol.  Packer was saying that he thinks if someone raises or ****s a fist back it gives the other person the right to grab them/restrain them.  

 

I'm saying, no, it does not give anyone that right because as soon as you put your hands on someone first, you have initiated contact and escalated the dispute to a physical level now.  ****ing my fist, or taking an offensive stance (or defensive - however you look at it) has not initiated any actual physical confrontation.  

 

Grabbing my arm, fist, hand, etc. in reaction to said act, whether you think so or not, results in taking the dispute to the next level, which is now physical.  Where it goes from there depends on the parties involved.

 

In a one on one confrontation with a woman, a man should never hit them or slap them.  Especially a college athlete vs some chick in the bar he has a clear physical advantage over.  We can talk about all the other scenarios like a woman coming at a man with a knife, gun, scissors, etc. all we want, those are extreme circumstances.

 

And under extreme circumstances, I'd imagine 100% of men or women in that situation wouldn't think twice about knocking the other out to protect themselves from anyone wielding a weapon.  So yes, there are different standards and circumstances depending on the situation.

[The 12th Commandment]

I hate this. The kid was acting in self defense.

I live in southern MS. Down here, women know that if they want to bow up/hit a man, they better be ready for retaliation.

Now we aren't women beaters, but we are gonna treat women equal like they want. If they want to fight, we aren't gonna stand for it. The women don't complain when they get their *** kicked. The men don't complain when they get their *** kicked (it happens more than ya think). That's just how it goes.

I'm against domestic violence and if a man comes home every day to beat on his wife, he should be punished. This guy shouldn't.

Does moms know you think like that?

[ZRagone]

His attempt to get to the bar maybe been rude, but to consider that anywhere near a legal justification for an altercation is basically saying assaults happen non-stop at nearly every bar. That is normal bar behavior.

Her waving her first at him like she's going to punch is not okay and arguably could be consider assault. Which justifies his attempt to grab the fist she's threatening to punch him with in defense.

She then punches him in the face, one time.

He responds on kind with a punch to the face, one time.

I don't condone hitting women, I wouldn't have hit her in that sitatuon, and it was dumb to hit her..,but I don't blame him for the reaction and find it understandable. You get punched in the face the normal reaction for many is to swing back.

You don't get to, as a society, demand men and women are equals and women shouldn't be treated differently because of their gender and such...and then turn around and say that people HAVE to react differently to a woman hitting them instead of a man.

You make that woman a man of the same size that throws that same punch and he's still on the team and this likely never hits the news, or has as good of a chance of people watching it laughing at the other person for throwing such a weak ass punch initially.

For the kid to get booted off the team and scholarship revoked because of responding in kind to someone assaulting and then commiting battery against him is just outrageous. As was most of the media presentation of this story. Up until hearing Dukes and Lorenzo discussions it today, the impression I got from all the media attention I heard was that he pummeled this chick or dropped her ala Ray Rice and I hadn't heard a single comment about the fact that she punched him first.

You hit somebody and you run the risk of being hit back, it's that simple. HOPEFULLY, man or woman but especially woman IMHO, the person being hit has some restraint and only acts back if they feel it's absolutely necessary. But I can rarely blame someone for throwing one punch back If they get punched. Had he kept swinging is say different, but that wasn't the case

[Hersh]

Making a fist does not involve physical contact.  Restraining a fist involves physical contact.  I'm sorry, but where are we having the disconnect on this?  I don't think I even want to delve into the leaps in logic you have made about her fist or what was going through her mind by watching a short segment of a silent surveillance video.

I don't know, perhaps you can show me some overwhelming statistics about these cases?  Also, maybe some statistics about how many men a year die from domestic violence compared to women?

 

Further, I did not say anything about not caring about men in domestic violence situations, did I?  Again, here's your leap in logic reaction coming into play.  Of course I care about men being victims of domestic violence...those situations happen a hell of a lot less, however.

 

You are arguing with someone (or more than one) that clearly hates women. He (they) will never admit that the girl in the video wasn't a threat at all to that guy because they would feel less "manly" acknowledging being wrong. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a guy or two in this thread have hit a woman in the past.

[The 12th Commandment]

You are arguing with someone (or more than one) that clearly hates women. He (they) will never admit that the girl in the video wasn't a threat at all to that guy because they would feel less "manly" acknowledging being wrong. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a guy or two in this thread have hit a woman in the past.

 

I don't mean to be a drama queen, but I don't believe I've ever been so astounded by a thread at ES. Maybe it's generational? wtf

[ZRagone]

He isn't understanding that point.  You can't put your hands on someone else (grab, restrain, etc.) because you think they might do something.  Waving a fist, making a fist, etc. is not enough to warrant that unless they carry out the punch/hit.

Assault, as defined by merriam Webster

"a : a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact — compare battery 1b"

You do not have to be struck first to iniate an action in self defense under our legal system. If someone is threatening to do physical harm to you, and you believe that such threats are legitimate, you have a legal argument to attempt to defend yourself....in this case, by attempting to block the hand that the person is threatening to do harm to you with.

yes, her ****ing her first back in the manner she did absolutely can potentially be legal justification for him to grab ahold of said hand.

[Hersh]

His attempt to get to the bar maybe been rude, but to consider that anywhere near a legal justification for an altercation is basically saying assaults happen non-stop at nearly every bar. That is normal bar behavior.

Her waving her first at him like she's going to punch is not okay and arguably could be consider assault. Which justifies his attempt to grab the fist she's threatening to punch him with in defense.

She then punches him in the face, one time.

He responds on kind with a punch to the face, one time.

I don't condone hitting women, I wouldn't have hit her in that sitatuon, and it was dumb to hit her..,but I don't blame him for the reaction and find it understandable. You get punched in the face the normal reaction for many is to swing back.

You don't get to, as a society, demand men and women are equals and women shouldn't be treated differently because of their gender and such...and then turn around and say that people HAVE to react differently to a woman hitting them instead of a man.

 

 

This is so ****ing *** backwards. First, if you don't condone hitting women, don't turn around and say you understand why he hit her. Second, equality has nothing to do with "well, they want to be equal so if a guy hits a girl, oh well." Men are physically stronger than women. The sexes will never be equal in that regard. That has nothing to do with being TREATED ****ING EQUALLY!!!. WTF is wrong with some of you guys?

Yes, act differently. Yes, this wouldn't be a conversation if it was a guy fighting a guy OR a woman fighting a woman.

I don't mean to be a drama queen, but I don't believe I've ever been so astounded by a thread at ES. Maybe it's generational? wtf

 

I'm stunned that people are still saying it's ok to hit a woman because women want to be treated as equals. Are we on the same side on this issue?

[ZRagone]

I don't mean to be a drama queen, but I don't believe I've ever been so astounded by a thread at ES. Maybe it's generational? wtf

Oh, I don't think she was a "threat" to him.

A 110 pound guy who hit him in that fashion would t be a "threat" to him likely either...but the reaction would be completely different. Which is why the whole "threat" talk is absolute bull.

But ultimately, it doesn't matter if I think she wa a threat. If HE thought she was legitimately going to attempt to do him bodily harm then it's reasonable for him to attempt to stop it from happening. and if someone punches you I find it understandable if you punch them back; I may not AGREE with it, but that doesn't mean I find it rephensable or inconceivable. No one has to allow themselves to be assault.

[The 12th Commandment]

I'm stunned that people are still saying it's ok to hit a woman because women want to be treated as equals. Are we on the same side on this issue?

Absolutely.  I never imagined that so many people would up and admit that horribly misogynistic bull**** in public.  I'm floored.  There is a disconnect somewhere, there has to be.

[ZRagone]

Men are physically stronger than women.[ /quote]

Please, go use that line in a conversation about women in front line combat or other such things. You'll be told, rightly, that while in general that's true, that there are some women who are stronger than some men, and the same goes the other way for weaker. There's undoubtably physically weaker men then that women, yet you just acknowledge if it was a man...in seemingly any sense...it'd be fine. Which makes the whole "physically stronger" thing an empty excuse.

[The 12th Commandment]

Oh, I don't think she was a "threat" to him.

A 110 pound guy who hit him in that fashion would t be a "threat" to him likely either...but the reaction would be completely different. Which is why the whole "threat" talk is absolute bull.

But ultimately, it doesn't matter if I think she wa a threat. If HE thought she was legitimately going to attempt to do him bodily harm then it's reasonable for him to attempt to stop it from happening. and if someone punches you I find it understandable if you punch them back; I may not AGREE with it, but that doesn't mean I find it rephensable or inconceivable. No one has to allow themselves to be assault.

As a 135 pound (at the time) drunk sometimes ****y asshole I got popped a few times and deserved it.  Everyone knew that including my buddies and me.  At least by the next morning I did.  

 

You need to think about appropriate response.  I think the cops have a term for it.  It means you answer the threat with the minimum amount of force necessary.  Popping that chick was so far beyond that it's criminal.  Maybe she did something bad, but even if she did it in no way whatever justifies what he did.   

[ZRagone]

We big brave men must protect the precious little snowflakes that are assaulting people because they're all inherently so weaker and frail then us superior beings...and the you call others the misogynists.

Up is down, black is white, cats and dogs are living together apparently...

[Special K]

You are arguing with someone (or more than one) that clearly hates women. He (they) will never admit that the girl in the video wasn't a threat at all to that guy because they would feel less "manly" acknowledging being wrong. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a guy or two in this thread have hit a woman in the past.

You're right.  And I know I shouldn't even waste my time posting, even my smart ass comments.

 

To be totally honest though, I am a little keyed up on this issue at this point in time.  Some of my job involves working in domestic violence prevention so I'm sensitive to that, but moreso, Monday, I attended the funeral of a classmate who was beaten to death by her boyfriend last week when she tried to break up with him.

[ZRagone]

As a 135 pound (at the time) drunk sometimes ****y asshole I got popped a few times and deserved it.  Everyone knew that including my buddies and me.  At least by the next morning I did.  

 

You need to think about appropriate response.  I think the cops have a term for it.  It means you answer the threat with the minimum amount of force necessary.  Popping that chick was so far beyond that it's criminal.  Maybe she did something bad, but even if she did it in no way whatever justifies what he did.

Hopefully none of those guys that popped you were "physically superior" to your 135 pound self, or that you were a "threat" to them, or else apparently it'd be criminal and completely unjustified. You know, since people are saying it's bad because she was physically weaker and wasn't a theat and not simply because she was a woman.

[Special K]

I would be interested in taking a poll to find out the ages of all the posters defending Johnson.

[Hersh]

Men are physically stronger than women.[ /quote]

Please, go use that line in a conversation about women in front line combat or other such things. You'll be told, rightly, that while in general that's true, that there are some women who are stronger than some men, and the same goes the other way for weaker. There's undoubtably physically weaker men then that women, yet you just acknowledge if it was a man...in seemingly any sense...it'd be fine. Which makes the whole "physically stronger" thing an empty excuse.

 

This is not combat and I already addressed that in this thread. If a woman wants to be on the front lines fighting, they should have to pass the same exact standards that a man has to pass. THIS IS NOT COMBAT!! As has been discussed, there is a reason men and women's sports are separated. The elite women in a sport would struggle massively against the elite men in a sport. Are there exceptions to every rule, of course.

 

THIS is a D-1 athlete punching a drunk chick at a bar. How many women are stronger than D-1 football players? 

 

No, the physically stronger thing isn't an empty excuse. Do you really not know there are major differences strength wise between sexes??  

[ZRagone]

she was wrong to punch him, no doubt. 

 

AND

 

he was wrong to punch her, no doubt.

 

ok. my work here is done. 

 

(seriously, it is actually possible for both parties to have acted poorly. yet, for some reason, we love a boogeyman)

Agree with this.

There's a difference between saying a reaction was understandable and a reaction was wrong.

A guy calls your wife a **** to both of your faces, it's understandable in my mind if you punch him.

Does it "right", doesn't make it something I'd endorse as a good thing, doesn't make it something is condone as appropriate behavior, but it's something I could reasonably understand why such a reaction would occur and would have a hard time blaming you for taking the wrong action.

I personally think it's wrong to punch anyone, especially a woman, unless you or someone else is significantly in harms way. But I find it completely understandable if someone punches a person who punched them, as its a reasonably assumed reaction to such an instance.

ere are major differences strength wise between sexes??

I do. I also know this isn't actually about that, it's just an excuse for people who don't want to admit it's singularly about gender. That is evidenced by the notion that If a physically comparable, or even weaker, male was in place of the female In this case the reaction would be different. As some have even admitted here in the past few posts.

Which is a clear indication that it's not about "threat posed" or "strength" but is singularly about gender.

[The 12th Commandment]

Hopefully none of those guys that popped you were "physically superior" to your 135 pound self, or that you were a "threat" to them, or else apparently it'd be criminal and completely unjustified. You know, since people are saying it's bad because she was physically weaker and wasn't a theat and not simply because she was a woman.

I wasn't always on the wrong side of it.  Not that I was a tough guy, just stronger (stronger than any 135 pound woman for sure) than I looked with a wrestling background.  

[Hersh]

You're right.  And I know I shouldn't even waste my time posting, even my smart ass comments.

 

To be totally honest though, I am a little keyed up on this issue at this point in time.  Some of my job involves working in domestic violence prevention so I'm sensitive to that, but moreso, Monday, I attended the funeral of a classmate who was beaten to death by her boyfriend last week when she tried to break up with him.

 

Wow, I can't even imagine what you must be feeling. Horrible. I don't even know what to say.  

 

I can't believe this thread is still going. I'm really stunned by some of the people in here that try to create these straw man arguments to justify a D-1 athlete hitting a girl in a bar. "Well, if it was another guy" or "Well, if she had a weapon" blah blah.  

 

It was a college football player hitting some girl in the face. If they think he felt threatened by that, I don't know what to say anymore. I'm 5'7, 165, I wrestled, was a wrestling coach, I play hockey, I've taught a boxing class...I just don't see how that guy felt threaten by her to the point of needing to punch her in the face like that.

I wasn't always on the wrong side of it.  Not that I was a tough guy, just stronger (stronger than any 135 pound woman for sure) than I looked with a wrestling background.  

 

No wonder we don't see her as a threat as some seem to do in this thread.

[Barney B]

 

To be totally honest though, I am a little keyed up on this issue at this point in time.  Some of my job involves working in domestic violence prevention so I'm sensitive to that, but moreso, Monday, I attended the funeral of a classmate who was beaten to death by her boyfriend last week when she tried to break up with him.

 

Jesus, that's terrible. Condolences.

 

It'd be nice if the one thing everyone here can agree on is that your friend didn't deserve what happened to her.