RCC - Washington's Best Kept Secret? Darrel Young

[TSO]

I get that DY is a good player and we're struggling in areas he could help but, my God, the level of vitriol about it directed at the coaches (mainly Jay, of course) just seems way over the top.

We're not the only team under-utilizing the FB. The position as a whole is close to dead. We are far from the only team with a good FB barely utilizing him.

Heck, Lovie Smith was asked about this week and here's what he said:

On the traditional use of fullbacks and how Tampa Bay uses Jorvorskie Lane:

“That’s an interesting question because it has gone. That is a position that, you know, based on where you are, whether it’s leaving us, disappearing at the fullback position. For us though, I still think there’s a place for it. But the type of athlete that you’re looking for, that’s what’s hard to find. We have a unique athlete in Jorvorskie Lane, who, if you ask him, he’d tell you he’s a tailback, but his body doesn’t say that. We’re not going to — we’ll have regulars. I’m talking about a fullback, tailback, some parts of the game. That’s just not an awful lot — you don’t see that an awful lot nowadays. And for us, with the tight end position, of course, that gives you flexibility based on who you have at that position, too. You can use the tight end of course in situations where you would normally use a fullback, and it’s harder on the defense. If a defense sees a fullback in there, you pretty much know what types of formations you’re getting, but if it’s a tight end and that tight end can be lined up on the line of scrimmage, out as a wide receiver, in the backfield as a fullback, it really makes it hard on a defense. The fullback position is leaving to an extent, but I don’t think it’ll ever leave completely.”

Like I said, I get the frustration and understand where it's coming from. I think it's a legitimate gripe. Just not at the level some are taking it.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Like just because the dude has caught a few easy TDs in the flat, it doesn't meant he can line up at TE lol. You can't just give him handoffs because he's not a runner. This has nothing to do with Gruden. He'd probably be underutilized in every team in the NFL. He's not quick, he's not tall. 

 

Maybe he can be more involved in the red zone but besides that, what can he do? He must not be that great a blocker in the coaching staff's eyes if he can't see the field. 

 

This is not Madden guys. 

[TSO]

I wonder how much his play would drop off were he to become a bigger part of the gameplan and defense's start to key in on him.

One of the main reasons he has success on the few touches he gets during a game is due to the element of surprise. In the passing game, he's been most successful when he gets to the flat uncovered. In the running game, it's when he gets that quick handoff while they're focused on the RB.

If he becomes a guy they start going to more often, I don't think he's the mismatch people are making him out to be. I think he's got great hands and speed for a FB, but I doubt he's going to really out-maneuver many LBers or Safeties.

As it stands, I feel like he looks as good as he does on his few touches a game because he's not heavily involved.

It'd be interesting to find out, though.

[Larry]

Granted, when it comes to "football intelligence", I'm probably below average, even for ES.

But on impression I've had, about our coach, is that he likes TEs, because he likes their VERSATILITY.

Send three TEs into the huddle, and the defense doesn't know where they're going to line up, or what they're going to be doing, when the ball's snapped. They might be running routes, they might be blocking for a screen or a run, they might be in for pass pro.

And it sure FEELS, to me, like DY offers the same "Jack of all trades" versatility.

I'm not saying he's our best RB. Or blocker. (Actually, he probably is our best "lead blocker". And I think pretty good at pass pro, too). Or possession receiver. But he seems to be CAPABLE of all of them.

I would think he would appeal to our coach, on that basis.

[Rufus T Firefly]

It just seems to again be the question of how good Jay is at adapting his system to his talent. With the top 3 TEs out, it seems like there just have to be more plays where the team would be better served making use of a player like Young.

[fwo40]

DY is a solid football player, he deserves chances.  Problem is our running game is so bad right now, adding him into the mix just seems like one more guy to plod for a yard before getting drilled.  If Chris Thompson can't go this week, fine get him some more touches, but I don't expect that to be a major catalyst for change.

[tomwvr]

I get that DY is a good player and we're struggling in areas he could help but, my God, the level of vitriol about it directed at the coaches (mainly Jay, of course) just seems way over the top.

We're not the only team under-utilizing the FB. The position as a whole is close to dead. We are far from the only team with a good FB barely utilizing him.

Heck, Lovie Smith was asked about this week and here's what he said:

Like I said, I get the frustration and understand where it's coming from. I think it's a legitimate gripe. Just not at the level some are taking it.

 

Sorry but Jay is not a good coach. IF you cannot change your "scheme" to work with the players you have you will not be successful in the NFL - just ask Joe Gibbs

 

And with the lack of TEs on the Team - do something with DY he is one of the best blockers on the team

[TSO]

Sorry but Jay is not a good coach. IF you cannot change your "scheme" to work with the players you have you will not be successful in the NFL - just ask Joe Gibbs

 

And with the lack of TEs on the Team - do something with DY he is one of the best blockers on the team

 

Welp, if you say so! 

 

I just asked Joe. He said not to listen to your assessments about anything. And apology not accepted.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Sorry but Jay is not a good coach. IF you cannot change your "scheme" to work with the players you have you will not be successful in the NFL - just ask Joe Gibbs

And with the lack of TEs on the Team - do something with DY he is one of the best blockers on the team

It's truly amazing how fans think moving one marginal player to another position is the answer to offense

If it was ever that simple, the NFL would be worth nothing

[skins island connection]

 But, Joe DID do something similar; he would go against tendencies, which is changing the status quo.

 

If using DY in TE formations to give a different look, even if it only drew attention of a safety, it would give a look uncommon to the team right now, and how opponents gameplan against us.

 

If you can't beat em with brawn, you out-wit them in style.

[carex]

I mean the guy only can really help in goal line situations. I just never got the fascination with him. I guess he scores a lot of TDs but it's not like he's the one making the play. I'm not knocking him, i just don't get it.

 

Like can you line him out wide and have him run a route like a TE? I doubt it. That TD he scored against JAX was the result of a coverage break down. 

 

He's not particularly fast or agile. His hands are pretty decent though.

 

I have seen him go in motion and split out wide in previous years

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

But, Joe DID do something similar; he would go against tendencies, which is changing the status quo.

If using DY in TE formations to give a different look, even if it only drew attention of a safety, it would give a look uncommon to the team right now, and how opponents gameplan against us.

If you can't beat em with brawn, you out-wit them in style.

I mean why would that warrant extra attention from a safety?

DY isn't a downfield threat

[TheShredder]

Apparently Gruden wants to keep him a secret. 8 plays in past two games. 8. Snowman. 8 ****ing plays. 4 in each. Why do you think the run game Is brutal!!???

Sorry...venting. Ugh

I hear ya, but the OL is hurting.  Injuries happen.  There's a lot to be said for the impact those injuries have on the OL and the running game.  Need more OL depth to not get a drop off with an injury.  OL is everything to those RB's and Morris isn't the same with backups.  No holes.  Nothing wrong with the RB's...it's the line. 

[TSO]

I mean why would that warrant extra attention from a safety?

DY isn't a downfield threat

Right?

And, furthermore, it can't possibly be what Jay said about it when asked; that he has short arms and he'd struggle blocking guys that tight, which would then make it easy on defense's to know that it's going to be a pass if he was lined up there.

Why was Niles listed as a starter ahead of Reed before the season? Because, at TE, you need to be a dual threat as a blocker and pass-catcher, otherwise you're giving the defense an easy tell. Unless you're so damn amazing as a pass catcher and your overriding philosophy is to throw the ball, then it doesn't matter (like Jimmy Graham with the Saints).

Look at the issues the Seahawks are now having with Graham because of that.

I mean, Jay is a moran. No way he's got an understanding about this that can possibly outdo us message board coaches. We're the only team in the league under-utilizing our HOF FB/TE.

Like I said before, I get the frustration. I really do like DY and think he can help us a bit more than he has. Jay himself has said as much. But the way it's talked about with some here, it's like they've got the perfect solution to our woes and, by God, these idiot professionals just aren't as smart as us.

It's a little disturbing, the ego involved.

[skins island connection]

I mean why would that warrant extra attention from a safety?

DY isn't a downfield threat

 

 In redzone situations where we put a 3 WR set, something similar to Reed's catch last week, a safety would be the only viable option for a defense.

I'm not talking about a full time placement, but in situational plays every once in awhile, especially if he can get open and get that 1 pass caught and make a nice play; that will pull more attention towards him, opening up other areas. He gets a full head of steam going, no one would want to try and tackle him, kinda like an oversized bowling ball.

[justice98]

I'm very pro-DY, but if we're not gonna use him, then I'm starting to lean toward using that roster spot next year on a player that'll be of more use to us. Especially if Gruden's gonna be here still.

[skinny21]

Agreed.

I was thinking it's kind of funny that the people most vociferous in their defense of Gruden (regarding DY, but in other areas as well), seem to be the most ardent Cousins supporters. Then I thought, much better to be that way than the qb vs head coach discussions of 2 years ago.

For the record, I am pro Gruden and pro Cousins (and I like our backup qbs ), though they all have their flaws. I'm seeing growth in the former 2 though, and that has increased my support for them.

Still think they could use DY better. He isn't flashy, but he gets it done. Sometimes those are the guys you need to turn to, maybe particularly when the going gets tough.

[TSO]

Agreed.

I was thinking it's kind of funny that the people most vociferous in their defense of Gruden (regarding DY, but in other areas as well), seem to be the most ardent Cousins supporters. Then I thought, much better to be that way than the qb vs head coach discussions of 2 years ago.

For the record, I am pro Gruden and pro Cousins (and I like our backup qbs ), though they all have their flaws. I'm seeing growth in the former 2 though, and that has increased my support for them.

 

How weird, Redskin fans who are supportive of the Redskins QB and defend the Redskins HC? Who'd have thunk the thought!?

 

Honestly, that should be the default position for any fan. At least the desire to give the benefit of the doubt should be there, you'd think. Let's not also get into who just happens to "hate Jay" or be most vociferous in his criticism and who they ardently defend, amirite?

 

And, for the record (since I think this was directed at me), the reason I'm most vociferous in my defense of Gruden is because I believe there is a level of vitriol directed at him (as there was with the Shanahan's) that belies rationality and is mainly due to the obsessive emotional attachment to one player in particular over the rest of the team.

 

Now, with the Shanahan's, it was more understandable (to a degree). But then Gruden wasn't a part of any of that and STILL came to a very similar conclusion on said player... you'd think at some point they'd be more accepting that maybe they were wrong about him and the coaches were right? Nah, they're all idiots.

 

It's funny. I didn't care for the hire. Still unsure about what we have in him exactly (though I feel like he's been honest and self-critical, improving in those areas where he had issues previously, which is a good sign), but I've naturally, as a Skins fan, felt the need to become one of these "defenders" just by the ridiculous nature of the vitriol he receives. It's more empathy than any true belief in him. Maybe I'm being stupid and he's this gigantic ass who doesn't deserve that empathy, but I haven't seen that, yet. I think he really cares about turning this team around, that's enough for me to really root for him and give him the benefit of the doubt.  

 

I've always liked Robert, as well. And when he was the starting QB, always supported him while recognizing his flaws. Same as it is with Kirk. Just hated the divide that was generated, within the building and fanbase, by one more than the other. I'm big on lines of authority and titles having meaning.      

 

Not sure why you'd mention this in a thread about DY... talk about stirring the hornet's nest.

 

Btw, this isn't an invitation to discuss this here, this thread is about DY. Just felt like skinny21's post deserved a response. If any of you'd like, you can quote skinny21's or my post and take it to the Cousins thread. Thanks for your cooperation. 

[skinny21]

Not sure why you'd mention this in a thread about DY... talk about stirring the hornet's nest.

Btw, this isn't an invitation to discuss this here, this thread is about DY. Just felt like skinny21's post deserved a response. If any of you'd like, you can quote skinny21's or my post and take it to the Cousins thread. Thanks for your cooperation.

Just like messing with you TSO

Been wanting to see DY more involved for years, and no, not just because of a few plays he was unaccounted for (actually, I can't even remember any of those). DC9 will back me up here - Young has enough wiggle and power to make the first tackler miss as a pass catcher and very good hands - he's a guy a qb can trust to both catch the ball and make something out of it. Don't fault Gruden much (FB is a dying breed as you said), but I know Gruden has raved about him in the past and it would be nice to see him involved more. A bit surprised he wasn't used more with our TE injuries, but that doesn't make Gruden an idiot or anything though IMO.