Some More Cops Who Need to Be Fired

[Larry]

47 minutes ago, China said:

Yeah, that's attempted vehicular manslaughter.

 

Is it?  

 

Or is it "cutting off another vehicle, and the other vehicle didn't slow down?"

[China]

2 hours ago, Larry said:

 

Is it?  

 

Or is it "cutting off another vehicle, and the other vehicle didn't slow down?"

 

The camera distorts the apparent distance, but judging by the time between when he moved over and the crash occurred, the ATVer didn't have adequat time to slow down.  You can see him try and turn to avoid, but there isn't even time enough for that.  

[Ball Security]

 

Cops go to this guys apartment on a disturbance call. He’s home alone FaceTime-ing a woman. He gets his gun because he doesn’t know who’s banging on his door late at night. Police kick in his door and shoot him because he’s holding a gun.

 

Cops breaking into the homes of our servicemen and killing them. How is this excusable?

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

While I fully respect the job that our law enforcement officers do and understand the dangers of their jobs, I don't believe they should get 'qualified immunity' for when they make egregious mistakes. Transparency and accountability help to build public trust, but the 'blue wall of silence' often defends their 'brother cops.'

 

80% of cops are good people, but just like any other profession they attract some people with the wrong qualities. I know two of the neighborhood bullies I grew up with went on to become cops, because it suited their authoritarian, domineering personalities. One later was fired for roughing up a druggie and lying about it, and video taken from bystanders proved them wrong. These kind of cops HATE people with phone cameras.

 

Look up the Tony Timpa case in Texas...he was a disabled man who was having a severe panic attack and called the cops to help him. Guess what? They killed him by sitting on his back, and they've gone back and forth over the years trying to argue 'qualified immunity' and such. There was also Kenneth French at a Costco in California, who was shot while running away from an off-duty cop...who also shot both of the man's parents and caused one to lose a kidney.

 

Guess what? He didn't go to prison. The only good thing that happened was the wounded parents were awarded a $17 million settlement.

Edited May 9 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[The 12th Commandment]

32 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said:

While I fully respect the job that our law enforcement officers do and understand the dangers of their jobs, I don't believe they should get 'qualified immunity' for when they make egregious mistakes. Transparency and accountability help to build public trust, but the 'blue wall of silence' often defends their 'brother cops.'

 

80% of cops are good people, but just like any other profession they attract some people with the wrong qualities. I know two of the neighborhood bullies I grew up with went on to become cops, because it suited their authoritarian, domineering personalities. One later was fired for roughing up a druggie and lying about it, and video taken from bystanders proved them wrong. These kind of cops HATE people with phone cameras.

 

Look up the Tony Timpa case in Texas...he was a disabled man who was having a severe panic attack and called the cops to help him. Guess what? They killed him by sitting on his back, and they've gone back and forth over the years trying to argue 'qualified immunity' and such. There was also Kenneth French at a Costco in California, who was shot while running away from an off-duty cop...who also shot both of the man's parents and caused one to lose a kidney.

 

Guess what? He didn't go to prison. The only good thing that happened was the wounded parents were awarded a $17 million settlement.

Taxpayers routinely paying out million+ dollar settlements doesn't phase the police one bit. No skin off of their backs. 

 

My small cities largest non-operational cost is settlements.  We just had a cop die who was doing the right thing and trying to be kind to a crazy guy trespassing, who ended up stabbing him.  It broke my heart because I know none of them will try to be kind again.

[Larry]

Just saying.  

 

Our cops are routinely sent into situations where most civilians don't think it's a life or death situation.  But the cop is required, for his own safety, to treat it like it is.  

 

Recall some statistics.  They're from probably 50 years ago.  But I assume they're still valid.  

 

Out of all the cops who die every year in the course of their job, the thing that more of them were doing, more than any other activity, was "traffic stop".  

 

And if you look at all the cops who died on the job, broken down to "what were they doing?", and adjust it for "how often do cops do that thing?".  To get a "If the cop's dispatch is X, which dispatch has the highest chance of the cop dying?"  Was "Domestic dispute."  

 

There's a legitimate reason why the cops have to be intentionally trained to think of these situations as potential assaults on themselves.  

 

But yes.  I can see how that type of training can also really encourage an attitude of dividing the world into "cops" and "threats to cops".  

 

----------

 

And, having said all that?  

 

I believe in cutting the cops a lot of slack, when the person who got shot actually has a gun.  

 

That slack does not extend to "well, he tried to run away, and he might have had a gun".  Or "well, I told him to lay on the ground and he didn't."  

 

But if the subject had a gun?  In his hand?  Some slack is due.  

 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

And, having said all that?  

 

I believe in cutting the cops a lot of slack, when the person who got shot actually has a gun.  

 

That slack does not extend to "well, he tried to run away, and he might have had a gun".  Or "well, I told him to lay on the ground and he didn't."  

 

But if the subject had a gun?  In his hand?  Some slack is due.  

 

And there wouldn't have been near the uproar had they actually been at the right house. If the actual SUSPECT had a gun, I'd agree with you. 

 

But if you want to wield the power of life and death, make sure you're knocking on the right ****ing door first.

[GhostofSparta]

2 hours ago, Ball Security said:

Police kick in his door and shoot him because he’s holding a gun.

 

 

1 hour ago, Larry said:

 

 

I believe in cutting the cops a lot of slack, when the person who got shot actually has a gun.  

  

And this is the ultimate irony. As long as the cops have qualified immunity, we lowly citizens don't actually have any rights worth a damn. I have gotten so very tired of arguing with the ammosexual friends/family in my life about how you can't really have a right to own and/or carry firearms for safety if any cops can immediately shoot you dead because they see a gun on you. Especially in cases where cops go to the wrong damn house in the middle of the night and break in unannounced (you know, like a thief would) and get to murder the occupant without consequence because, well, they had a gun! What were the police supposed to do? This lowly citizen dared to draw a weapon on officers that made one of the most egregious errors they could possibly make. Didn't they know that, as a (usually) completely surprised and half-asleep victim who is just trying to defend themselves from surprised, armed invaders is supposed to have more self-control and discipline in chaotic situations than the (allegedly) trained police officers who completely ****ed up in the first place? But hey, look at the bright side, if a few years down the road a jury finds out that the police acted inappropriately, then your remaining family members might get to bankrupt your local town in a settlement while the officers involved get off with a mere paid vacation most times.

 

But hey, just because police officers are basically impossible to fire, damn near impossible to prosecute for breaking the law they're supposed to uphold, and can put you in jail for 3 days for bull**** reasons and never even have to charge you (but you did hurt their feelings, so think about that next time you encounter one), and are caught on camera (don't get them started on you being allowed to film them!) constantly planting evidence is no reason to not reflexively assume that they're always the good guys making the correct decision to execute somebody on behalf of the state.

 

Or maybe we just stop hiring Ned and Jimbo as police officers.

 

[Ball Security]

10 minutes ago, GhostofSparta said:

 

And this is the ultimate irony. As long as the cops have qualified immunity, we lowly citizens don't actually have any rights worth a damn. I have gotten so very tired of arguing with the ammosexual friends/family in my life about how you can't really have a right to own and/or carry firearms for safety if any cops can immediately shoot you dead because they see a gun on you. Especially in cases where cops go to the wrong damn house in the middle of the night and break in unannounced (you know, like a thief would) and get to murder the occupant without consequence because, well, they had a gun! What were the police supposed to do? This lowly citizen dared to draw a weapon on officers that made one of the most egregious errors they could possibly make. Didn't they know that, as a (usually) completely surprised and half-asleep victim who is just trying to defend themselves from surprised, armed invaders is supposed to have more self-control and discipline in chaotic situations than the (allegedly) trained police officers who completely ****ed up in the first place? But hey, look at the bright side, if a few years down the road a jury finds out that the police acted inappropriately, then your remaining family members might get to bankrupt your local town in a settlement while the officers involved get off with a mere paid vacation most times.

 

But hey, just because police officers are basically impossible to fire, damn near impossible to prosecute for breaking the law they're supposed to uphold, and can put you in jail for 3 days for bull**** reasons and never even have to charge you (but you did hurt their feelings, so think about that next time you encounter one), and are caught on camera (don't get them started on you being allowed to film them!) constantly planting evidence is no reason to not reflexively assume that they're always the good guys making the correct decision to execute somebody on behalf of the state.

 

Or maybe we just stop hiring Ned and Jimbo as police officers.

 

Good post.

 

I saw another article where they interviewed the woman who he was FaceTiming with. She claims. He heard banging on the door and he yelled “who’s there?” The knocking stopped. Then started again. He went to the door and by the time he peeked outside no one is there. That’s when he went back to his room to get his gun. Then the police broke in and shot him.

 

Obviuosly that’s just her side. But the questions are why were they there? Was it a case of thin walls, annoyed neighbor? Did police identify themselves? What was the need to break down the door?

[Larry]

3 hours ago, Ball Security said:

I saw another article where they interviewed the woman who he was FaceTiming with. She claims. He heard banging on the door and he yelled “who’s there?” The knocking stopped. Then started again. He went to the door and by the time he peeked outside no one is there. That’s when he went back to his room to get his gun. Then the police broke in and shot him.

 

Obviuosly that’s just her side. But the questions are why were they there? Was it a case of thin walls, annoyed neighbor? Did police identify themselves? What was the need to break down the door?

 

 

[PokerPacker]

8 hours ago, Larry said:

Just saying.  

 

Our cops are routinely sent into situations where most civilians don't think it's a life or death situation.  But the cop is required, for his own safety, to treat it like it is.  

 

Recall some statistics.  They're from probably 50 years ago.  But I assume they're still valid.  

 

Out of all the cops who die every year in the course of their job, the thing that more of them were doing, more than any other activity, was "traffic stop".  

 

And if you look at all the cops who died on the job, broken down to "what were they doing?", and adjust it for "how often do cops do that thing?".  To get a "If the cop's dispatch is X, which dispatch has the highest chance of the cop dying?"  Was "Domestic dispute."  

 

There's a legitimate reason why the cops have to be intentionally trained to think of these situations as potential assaults on themselves.  

 

But yes.  I can see how that type of training can also really encourage an attitude of dividing the world into "cops" and "threats to cops".  

 

----------

 

And, having said all that?  

 

I believe in cutting the cops a lot of slack, when the person who got shot actually has a gun.  

 

That slack does not extend to "well, he tried to run away, and he might have had a gun".  Or "well, I told him to lay on the ground and he didn't."  

 

But if the subject had a gun?  In his hand?  Some slack is due.  

 

 

On the other hand, Police isn't even in the top 25 most dangerous jobs according to this list:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/03/02/most-dangerous-jobs-america-database/11264064002/

They sure like to play it up like they're in constant danger, but the reality is they kill a ****-ton more civilians than officers are lost in the line of duty.

Here's an infographic that supposedly follows LEO deaths through the years dating back to the 1700s.


According to This Study, from 1980-2019 (about 40 years; pre-covid), the police killed around 30,000 people (the study itself is looking into misreporting of police killings; found about 55% of police-killings are not labeled as such).
According to This Article, 1/3 of police killings are on fleeing suspects.  Assuming that rate holds up over the above time period, that tells us approximately 10,000 people were gunned down by the police while they were fleeing.  Over that same period, 7,000 police died.  About 40% more are killed by the cops while fleeing than cops who die before retirement (I note that list of cop deaths does not specify KIA and there are some pretty solid spikes during COVID, and we know more cops died of COVID than died in the line of duty).

 

So, nah, I'm not buying it.  And when push comes to shove, they cower and hide while children are systematically murdered when the job actually gets dangerous.

[TheGreatBuzz]

55 minutes ago, PokerPacker said:

So, nah, I'm not buying it.  And when push comes to shove, they cower and hide while children are systematically murdered when the job actually gets dangerous.

 

I remember hearing a few times that the filght deck of a navy ship was the most dangerous job in the world. I don't know if that is backed up though. 

[Larry]

6 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I remember hearing a few times that the filght deck of a navy ship was the most dangerous job in the world. I don't know if that is backed up though. 

 

I understand that one of the reasons for the creation of OSHA was that in the 1920's?, the US steel industry had 10% of their work force die on the job per year.  

[skinsmarydu]

12 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I remember hearing a few times that the filght deck of a navy ship was the most dangerous job in the world. I don't know if that is backed up though. 

I don't doubt it one bit. 

Second is deck division, trying to get the ship out and move it back in with the lines and braided steel cords.  Getting it anchored.  Proper tension is absolutely vital.  I've heard stories of people getting snapped in half when one breaks.  

[TheGreatBuzz]

17 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

I don't doubt it one bit. 

Second is deck division, trying to get the ship out and move it back in with the lines and braided steel cords.  Getting it anchored.  Proper tension is absolutely vital.  I've heard stories of people getting snapped in half when one breaks.  

 

UNREP at night. Nope, ain't happening. Enjoy that one, deck division. 

[Cooked Crack]

Quote

Attorneys for a Drug Enforcement Agency agent who struck and killed a Salem woman riding her bicycle in March 2023 argued Tuesday before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit that he had shown a plausible defense for immunity and should be allowed to continue, and seek dismissal of, his criminal case in federal court. 

 

Attorneys with the Oregon Department of Justice, the agency that appealed a federal court's decision to remove the case from state court in light of the immunity defense, said the case should be returned to Marion County Circuit Court for trial. 

 

Attorneys for DEA agent Samuel Landis argue that his work duties as a federal agent at the time of the crash make him eligible for immunity from prosecution, even though he may have broken state law. 

 

Prosecutors say Landis acknowledged he ran a stop sign at High and Leslie streets SE and had no lights or siren on when he hit Marganne Allen while she was riding her bike home from work on March 28, 2023. 

 

Allen, 53, died at nearby Salem Health hospital.  Landis, 38, did not face immediate charges, and the case was transferred from Salem Police to Keizer Police due to a potential conflict of interest. Months later, the Marion County District Attorney's Office charged Landis with criminally negligent homicide.

 

[China]

AP Investigation: In hundreds of deadly police encounters, officers broke multiple safety guidelines

 

In hundreds of deaths where police used force meant to stop someone without killing them, officers violated well-known guidelines for safely restraining and subduing people — not simply once or twice, but multiple times.

 

Most violations involved pinning people facedown in ways that could restrict their breathing or stunning them repeatedly with Tasers, an Associated Press investigation found.

 

Some officers had little choice but to break policing best practices — safety guidelines that are recommended by government agencies, law enforcement groups and training experts — to save a life or protect someone.

 

Many other violations were harder to explain. Officers at times prematurely resorted to weapons or physical holds during routine calls or misread a person’s confusion as defiance in medical emergencies, setting off a string of mistakes. In other cases, they kept applying force even after they had people handcuffed and controlled.

 

For its investigation, AP catalogued 1,036 deaths over a decade’s time after officers had used force not involving their guns. In about half, medical officials ruled that law enforcement caused or contributed to the deaths, but they usually didn’t mention whether policing best practices were followed.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

NAACP seeking justice in Airman Roger Fortson’s death; Okaloosa County Sheriff responds

 

The NAACP in Okaloosa County announced that the group wants to seek justice for Senior Airman Roger Fortson after he was killed in a deputy-involved shooting.

NAACP President, Sabu Williams, released the statement as follows:

 

Quote

“We offer our sincere condolences to the family of Airman Fortson, who by all accounts was an American hero. I am grateful to have met his mother and other family members and express the condolences of our community to them personally. I am also humbled by the outpouring of love and support from his friends, fellow Airmen, and Air Force leadership. His untimely death demands swift, transparent action on the part of the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and the State Attorney of the First District of Florida. After viewing the body cam video it is abundantly clear the deputy who was responding to a simple disturbance call, had no justifiable reason to shoot Airman Fortson. The fact is no disturbance was taking place yet in less than four seconds after Airman Fortson opened the door the deputy opened fire and he killed Airman Fortson.”

 

The NAACP stated with this and similar incidents, the branch and the Florida State Conference NAACP is demanding the following:

• A full, independent, and transparent investigation of the killing of Senior Airman Fortson be conducted by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement
• The United States Department of Justice conduct a full and transparent investigation into the killing of Airman Fortson
• All related body cam footage, audio, and digital communication, including any 911 calls be released publicly
• The Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office release the disciplinary records of the officer involved in the killing of Airman Roger Fortson
• A series of community engagement sessions be held with the county sheriff’s office
• Access to review reports on the use of force, use of lethal force complaints, disciplinary actions, termination records, and lawsuits connected to the Okaloosa County Sheriff within the past 10 years
• All police departments in the state of Florida commit to training its officers in methods of de-escalation and other alternatives to the use of force

The same day, the Okaloosa County Sheriff’s Office released a statement in response, saying they received the NAACP Okaloosa Branch’s list of demands and understood their concerns.

 

The statement was as follows:

 

Quote

“Sheriff Eric Aden has been in regular, close communication with the NAACP Okaloosa Branch in addition to U.S. Air Force leadership at Hurlburt Field, elected officials, and other community partners since the tragedy occurred. The NAACP’s local leadership privately viewed the available body-worn camera footage at our invitation. At this time, a criminal investigation is being conducted by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE). The request for other documentation related to the investigation is exempt under Florida Statute Chapter 119.071 as they are part of an active criminal investigation. We remain closely connected with FDLE related to the progress of this investigation. For our part, we wish to assure the NAACP Okaloosa Branch, its stakeholders, and our community of our firm commitment to transparency and accountability. In the Sheriff’s meeting with the NAACP and Hurlburt Field leadership this morning, he emphasized his commitment to do what is right. We humbly ask for patience as the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and State Attorney’s office conduct the most thorough review of the facts in this case. We continue to pray for Mr. Fortson and his family.”

 

[tshile]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:19 AM, Ball Security said:

Cops go to this guys apartment on a disturbance call. He’s home alone FaceTime-ing a woman. He gets his gun because he doesn’t know who’s banging on his door late at night. Police kick in his door and shoot him because he’s holding a gun.

 

Cops breaking into the homes of our servicemen and killing them. How is this excusable?

Some important parts of this are wrong. They weren’t banging on his door late at night, it was broad daylight. They didn’t kick his door on, he opened it. I’m not sure why he didn’t know who it was, the officer announced himself plenty.  No one broke into his house. 
 

Doesn’t mean the officer didn’t do something wrong or shouldn’t be held responsible for his actions. It’s just what you wrote is wrong. 

[ixcuincle]

Cop who arrested Scheffler needs to be here

 

What a power hungry corrupt dolt. Are we supposed to feel sympathy because he was "dragged" a few feet by his car?

[China]

Atlanta officer accused of killing Lyft driver allegedly said victim was ‘gay fraternity’ recruiter

 

An Atlanta police officer who shot and killed a Lyft driver who was driving him home was arrested and charged with murder, authorities said.

 

Koby Minor, 34, was being held without bond after his arrest early Wednesday in Union City, an Atlanta suburb, according to Fulton County Jail records. The slain man was 35-year-old Reginald Folks, of Atlanta, the county medical examiner’s office said.

 

A woman who stopped her car when she saw Minor waving for help after the shooting told Union City police Minor told her that the Lyft driver “is in a gay fraternity and was trying to recruit” him and that he thought he was being kidnapped, according to an arrest affidavit obtained by WSB-TV.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]