Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Again and yes "football" mind as in finding players. As you say, nowhere on his resume does it say he excels at hiring coaches. So should we just fire him too without looking at what he can possibly do or just go on the past? I mean if the guy can't hire a coach, what is his worth as a GM?/sarcasm. Again, he's shown to be more than capable at doing one thing (finding player talent) but has simply never been asked to do this other thing (hiring a coach). When he shows an inability to hire good coaches, THEN we can talk about that as a negative. I don't think you understand how sarcasm works when you're trying to relate things that aren't similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Oh my friend, no one is selling hope for this season. I'm just saying, give the guy a chance.  Sure, and I said I personally will give him a chance and like you will stay on the record of not liking the hire.  I am not excited about watching this play out but clearly none of us have a clue if its going to work out now.  But for some of those who aren't buying in and are especially intense about it, reading their posts I get the vibe that most of that is wrapped up in their feelings about Jay as opposed to Barry directly.  The symptom in some of these cases I think is Barry, the disease is Jay.  So IMO its a complicated discussion.    That's why for me at least, my take on this is if you want Jay out -- IMO the Barry hire if it goes south as some project will speed that along so its not the end of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The masses are so hung up on his days in Detroit. It is like these people are not seeing what he has done since than. It is no different than any other job. If you have the tools to do your job you can do it better and if not you will limp through it. Â Barry is the worse D coach the Redskins could get... should have just kept Hazbeen!!! I will be saying this if and when it doesn't work. We can all sit here and can be emotional or reasonable until blue in the face and yet we will not know what is in the future. With the new GM and the draft coming up... the sky is just the limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The masses are so hung up on his days in Detroit. It is like these people are not seeing what he has done since than. It is no different than any other job. If you have the tools to do your job you can do it better and if not you will limp through it. Barry's resume past Detroit is almost as bad as detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Barry's resume past Detroit is almost as bad as detroit. Â Is this bad and worse than being last? Â "The Chargers' linebackers were decimated by injuries this past season. Top pass rusher Melvin Ingram missed seven games with a hip injury; inside linebacker Manti Te'o missed six with a foot injury; inside linebacker Donald Butler missed the final two games with a dislocated elbow and rookie pass-rusher Jeremiah Attaochu missed five games because of a hamstring issue. Yet the Chargers finished ninth in yards and 13th in points. How much of that stemmed from Barry? Is he just a better position coach or a guy in need of a second chance to be a coordinator? We're about to find out." Â Link to the quote: http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14816/redskins-thoughts-joe-barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 That's an interesting take. I've never been able to root against the Skins... Even when I saw a silver lining in losing for draft picks... I always enjoy winning. Â I hope the team turns out awesome. And if it doesn't, there is some solace in the fact we'll likely be rebuilding the staff. But first and foremost, I want success. Agreed. I like being proven wrong when I have a negative thought about the team. In fact, it's what I hope for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Just for the record, I made this post awhile ago, but wanted to wait.   He's getting his chance whether any of us like it or not, but I'm rooting against him. And it's not specifically him, but the whole coaching staff. I'm excited about the thought of an honest to god gm hiring his coach here. That's the silver lining to me.Maybe it's negative, but it's reality. This coaching staff will never win anything. I'm positive on the future, just not 2015.   You may be right, or not.  But if you're going to actively, as you say,  root against (not criticize) any Redskins player or coach, make sure you just do it in your head, or do it elsewhere, but not on this board.  Of course I understand your positions, reasoning, and emotions, but I see that as rooting against the team. Were the coaching staff to amaze us and win more games then we'd expect, or actually improve things in a meaningful manner, you'd have been rooting against that winning outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 We've been giving the benefit of the doubt since oh, 1999? Â At what point are Redskins fans going to get the balls to stand up and start calling a spade a spade? Â At what point are they going to get tired of being run over by a mac truck, which then proceeds to back up and do it again? Â At what point are they going to get a spine? Â If you say Redskins fans can effect the team, thats great. Â Theres great opportunity to do so positively. Â But turning a blind eye, ignoring what is the plain and obvious truth for the "hope that by some miracle things will just magically turn out" seems to have a touch of crazy. Â Â Im not saying dont root for the team, or dont wish they go 16-0, thats what we all want as fans. Â The greatest of fans are the ones that dont believe they can win, but still hope they will anyway and still root for them on Sundays. Â But we as Redskins fans deserve what we have, because quite simply we dont have the guts to demand better. Â We are willing to take whatever the Redskins give us, and pay good money for it. Â And if thats another 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 season thats okay, because gosh darnit they tried hard and that guy talks pretty good, and he seems nice! Â I sure as hell hope Joe Barry turns out to be a wonder with the defense, but every single thing in the history of the NFL says otherwise, and the man who picked him was the same man who thought Jim Haslett did a real fine job. Â I dont blame Jo Barry one bit for taking the job, he should WANT to aspire to better things. Â But boy it says something about a hire, where the BEST thing his supporters can say is "Maybe he wasnt the worst coordinator in NFL history? Â Lets give him a chance and find out". Â But I actually see the Barry hire as very good for the Redskins. Â Not 2015 mind you, I think they go 6-10 and its another miserable year. Â Instead, I see it as hope for the future. Â It had to happen this way. Â I never liked the Gruden hire, I though Mike Zimmer was the obvious choice, especially for a young QB like RG3. Â Give him a defense like Russel Wilson and ask of him what Russel Wilson is asked. The problem with the Gruden hire, and the Barry hire, and every other one is that they werent chosen by anyone who knew football. Â That changed when the Redskins brought in Scot McCloughan. Â The real hope for the Redskins resides in him. Â The awkardness of inheriting a head coach presented a problem, a problem that there was only one way to handle. Â How do you give a guy a chance, who probably isnt the right guy, but still set yourself up right for the future? Â The answer to that question is you do things the right way, and dont get involved in the DC search. Â Thats what Scot did, he butted out, let Jay chose his guy, and Jay chose the rope he wanted to hang himself with. Â But thats a good thing, because that means Scot gets a fully year to look over the staff, to look over the scouts, to look over the players. Â A year without pressure, just a watchful eye. Â Then, he has a good idea of what the organization needs, and what it doesnt need and can make changes. Â He gives everyone a chance, looks like a good guy for doing it, and then drops the hammer where its needed. Â It sets up Scot great for next offseason, to be able to fire Gruden, hire a good head coach, the first we have had in 20 years that was chosen by a REAL football guy. Â Then, that head coach, a real football guy, gets to hire his staff, and finally, FINALLY we have a real football team. Â Thats the best hope this team has had in a long time, and thats exciting to me! Â The only way any of that happens though, is being bad. Â Sometimes being mediocre is the worst thing in the world. Â Its far worse than being terrible, because it gives the false promise and false hopes of tomorrow. Â It breeds complaceny, and "what if"s. Â It allows people to rather than reach for top 5 players, and coaches, and staff, to be simply "okay" with guys who "arent the worst". Â We are the Washington DC market. Â We are one of the MOST profitable sports franchises in the entire world. Â There is no excuse for this team not to be a top 5 contender every year. Â Its time to stop being a bottom dweller, and stop being okay with being "mediocre". Â I believe Joe Barry's hire will go a long way towards that, just not in the way most people expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Someone above, not to point any fingers (^), didn't read the whole post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Is this bad and worse than being last? "The Chargers' linebackers were decimated by injuries this past season. Top pass rusher Melvin Ingram missed seven games with a hip injury; inside linebacker Manti Te'o missed six with a foot injury; inside linebacker Donald Butler missed the final two games with a dislocated elbow and rookie pass-rusher Jeremiah Attaochu missed five games because of a hamstring issue. Yet the Chargers finished ninth in yards and 13th in points. How much of that stemmed from Barry? Is he just a better position coach or a guy in need of a second chance to be a coordinator? We're about to find out." Link to the quote: http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/14816/redskins-thoughts-joe-barry All kind words, but fact of the matter is SD spent 6 1st or 2nd rounders on linebackers the past 6 years, and none of them have played well under barry. That is pretty damning to me. Butler started off as a promising linebacker his first year playing, then he got barry as his lb coach and has regressed every year since, including last year where he was among the worst linebackers in the league. So go on about keim's kind words, they don't really match up with facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 All kind words, but fact of the matter is SD spent 6 1st or 2nd rounders on linebackers the past 6 years, and none of them have played well under barry. That is pretty damning to me. Butler started off as a promising linebacker his first year playing, then he got barry as his lb coach and has regressed every year since, including last year where he was among the worst linebackers in the league. So go on about keim's kind words, they don't really match up with facts. Â I can't argue much with LB's points here. His resume isn't very good. Â Although, I do remember looking at some of the Chargers' LB selections and thinking... "Uhh.. why?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 We've been giving the benefit of the doubt since oh, 1999? Â At what point are Redskins fans going to get the balls to stand up and start calling a spade a spade? Â At what point are they going to get tired of being run over by a mac truck, which then proceeds to back up and do it again? Sooo...the Fassel "fan backlash" of 2008 and the Vinny "fan revolt" of 2009 were what, exactly? My quick guess is that not too many Skins fans are that bothered by the Barry hiring. It's like that joke about the hound dog moaning on the old guy's front porch: Man walks by and sees a hound dog laying on the front porch, moaning away. He walks up to the old man sitting next to the dog to find out what's going on: Man: "Why is your dog moaning so much?" Old Man: "Bufford probably laid himself on a tack or somethin'..." Man: "Then why doesn't he get off the tack and move?" Old Man: "...Eh, it doesn't hurt him THAT much." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 All kind words, but fact of the matter is SD spent 6 1st or 2nd rounders on linebackers the past 6 years, and none of them have played well under barry. That is pretty damning to me. Butler started off as a promising linebacker his first year playing, then he got barry as his lb coach and has regressed every year since, including last year where he was among the worst linebackers in the league. So go on about keim's kind words, they don't really match up with facts. Â Read this Chargers insider article.. it is couple of weeks old but you might get some info from this... http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jan/14/chargers-joe-barry-washington-redskins/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Re: Peregrines rant--what realm do you occupy where Redskins fans haven't been waging war on the FO for at least the last 5 years as we have been doing on ES? Ever read the board? (rhetorical). Ever hear the phrase "turn in fan card" here?  I've written so many anti-Dan anti-FO comments i'm surprised I'm around (not really, that's never been a risk).  wtf goes on in some people's heads...strawman hell, it's near psychotic around here with more than few folks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Just for the record, I made this post awhile ago, but wanted to wait. You may be right, or not. but if you're going to actively, as you say, root against (not criticize) any Redskins player or coach, make sure you just do it in your head, or do it elsewhere, but not on this board. Of course I understand your positions, reasoning, and emotions, but I see that as rooting against the team. Were the coaching staff to amaze us and win more games then we'd expect, or actually improve things in a meaningful manner, you'd have been rooting against that winning outcome. I won't boohoo gruden winning. I'll be the first to admit if I am wrong, but he's made quite the mockery of the team I root for in just year 1 and year 2 is shaping up to be similar. Winning cures everything though, and I could learn to like gruden if he actually earned his paycheck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Read this Chargers insider article.. it is couple of weeks old but you might get some info from this... http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jan/14/chargers-joe-barry-washington-redskins/ That's great but I trust profootballfocus over a journalist, and they show all the linebackers for SD to be subpar over barry's tenure. I don't believe pff has an agenda against barry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I understand, Laron, and I like the minor but still useful clarification.  BTW, to me as both a member and a mod,  it's not about you being right or wrong per any specific position you take, or to what extent I personally agree or disagree, but how it's expressed, and I figure you know that. Like I said, I think you're quite informed and very sharp on football topics, independent of what view I may hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Not got anything against Barry himself but how many teams interviewed him to be there DC? Yes that's right fellow Skins there was only 1 team after him, and yes that was our very own Washington Redskins, enough said I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 <edit> enough said I think.   Oh, for me, that would be the Impossible Dream.   <cue Andy Williams> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 All I know is I feel like I won the interwebz staying out of this discussion yesterday, lol.  Seems like the tantrums have subsided, the agendas have been called out, the "insiders" and their narratives have been minimized in the minds of most, and were beginning to see intelligent discussion on the move replace the hyperbolic rants everyone wants to make.  Overall, the move is clearly a disappointing one considering, on the surface at least, Barry was hired because of his connection to Gruden/Allen first and everything else second.  But that's where my frustration with the move really ends. I certainly can't hate on Barry himself for that.    I don't put too much into his time as DC with the Lions. Seems like everyone stank there and everyone in the know considers Marinelli as being the head of that Defense with Barry only being there by name.  Furthermore, I find it extremely disingenuous when I see a lot of posters who would've been totally fine with Jim Shwartz as DC making that a priority, considering Shwartz himself (with much of the same personnel and arguably slightly better) finished dead last in 2009 with the Lions defensively as well.  Clearly, very few coaches had their careers written in stone by the results they had with that Lions team built primarily by Millen. So I automatically discount the opinion of anyone brandishing that as some kind of proof against Barry.  And, no, this isn't some kind of dishonest shift on my part trying to justify the move... I've repeatedly stated that the most important thing to me was recent success/production.  It's why I would've liked Fangio as well and wouldn't have looked too much into his past failures previous to the 49ers.   I'm particularly interested in Barry's development of players. I've heard two, opposing, narratives:  1) That he's great at developing players and has handled a ridiculous amount of injuries to the San Diego LB corps very well.  2) The other is, I believe Laron Burgundy here posted this and I saw some of this from the fans on the Charger's message board, the fans of the Chargers blame him for NOT really developing guys and attribute Butler's regression as a player to him. They particularly focus on poor tackling.  So I'd really like that to be fleshed out more. I hope we can just focus our discussion on that more so we can really see a better picture of who Barry is.  If the first narrative holds up, I think that's great because it is exactly what Haslett failed so miserably at. Well, maybe we weren't totally awful developing guys under him... but we were miserable with handling injuries well and too often used that as an excuse for poor defense.     If it's more the second.... yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think a piece of sky just hit me in the head. Didn't want to lose Baker. Outside linebackers were the one area of this team that actually exceeded expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Really looking forward to 2015. Mac starts what I anticipate will be a complete clear out/ 3 year draft cycle foundation rebuild. That either ends in what I anticipate. A complete Coaching clear out this time next year after another abysmally inept showing. Or they surprise the living piss out of me and actually look like a competent staff. Win/ Win. ALL about Mac getting to work this year. Results and the coaciing ineptness is just a sideshow to the main event. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think a piece of sky just hit me in the head. Didn't want to lose Baker. Outside linebackers were the one area of this team that actually exceeded expectations.  The two assistant defensive coaches who seemed to be universally praised are Baker (among other things, Kerrigan gives him credit for bringing his game a peg up) and Kirk Olivadotti.  Baker is now gone.  Hopefully Kirk isn't next.  Kirk seemed to do well with Keenan and I hear he helps out with game planning -- studying offensive tendencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Again, he's shown to be more than capable at doing one thing (finding player talent) but has simply never been asked to do this other thing (hiring a coach). When he shows an inability to hire good coaches, THEN we can talk about that as a negative. I don't think you understand how sarcasm works when you're trying to relate things that aren't similar. Yes, I debated whether or not I was using sarcasm correctly. I stand corrected on that, but my point still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 The two assistant defensive coaches who seemed to be universally praised are Baker (among other things, Kerrigan gives him credit for bringing his game a peg up) and Kirk Olivadotti. Baker is now gone. Hopefully Kirk isn't next. Kirk seemed to do well with Keenan and I hear he helps out with game planning -- studying offensive tendencies. Bakers gone? Who promoted him? Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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