goskins10 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 That is not accurate. ZBS lineman do not have to be smaller. It's just that the kind of linemen who have the skills necessary to execute ZBS *tend* to be smaller since most of the big ones don't have the dexterity. Trent is not a small lineman but executes ZBS very well. You *can* find big ZBS guys if you are willing to spend 1st rounders on them. This is why I'm more than happy to spend even the 5th overall on a RT if he is a big guy (i.e., can pass block well) who can execute ZBS. The other way is to get lucky in later rounds. Ok, so tend to be smaller is that much different than have to be? If you have superior athletes, you could run any system you want and it would work. So saying you "could" build a big line that runs a ZBS is a bit disingenuous. But yes, you are technically right, If you can find and are willing to spend the money and/or draft picks on the oline for only the best athletes at their position, then yes, you can build a big line that runs primarily a ZBS. But how many teams are able to do that? The pressure to win now and the needs of the rest of the team preclude most teams from doing that. MS, the self proclaimed, but recognized guru of the ZBS used smaller but quicker guys on oline. By the way, due to the physical needs at LT, all of them could play either a power or ZBS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeMarco Murray 29 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Good pickup. Keep this guy at OL Coach and who is the best in the biz. Pray he stays away from being an eventual OC. Food for thought. Bill Callahan was the one who had his input and had us draft Travis Frederick. Meanwhile, the league laughed and every draftnik laughed. We now have a Pro Bowl center for the next 10 years. Bill knows his stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Misconception that ZBS lineman need to be small; they need to be able to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 You know as happy as I am, as noted earlier in the thread, with this upgrade IF either Barry or Morris end up as DC it would totally sour Callahan for me. That would just reaffirm Allen's influence in continuing the 'old boys network' remains alive and kicking for one more year. Hail. I don't understand these continued posts (if we don't hire X, it will sour the hiring of Y that I liked yesterday) on ES. NFL front offices make dozens of transactions over the course of an off-season. Each one is independently positive or negative. If people like the hiring of McCloughan and Callahan, why would a perceived bad DC hire change that? I could understand how the overall opinion of team strength could be impacted, but how can hiring of a DC impact the quality of the hiring of a GM or OL coach? We all need to step back from the ledge and just watch things play out. I don't care if Bill Walsh hops out of the dirt to coach us...it's going to be a rough year in 2015 until we let our new GM fetch us some talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Misconception that ZBS lineman need to be small; they need to be able to move. No misconception here. I made the cardinal sin of saying have to have and now we are down this stinking rat hole. They don't "need" to be small but you can't deny most ZBS teams tend to use smaller quicker guys, not all but most. It is difficult to find big guys that can move. They tend to be the best athletes for their position meaning you can run whatever you want. But since smaller lineman tend to move better and are more plentiful, that's what they use. There is then a trade off. That was the only point. The fact is that most teams that run a ZBS use smaller guys that are quicker because they are easier and cheaper. It may not be because they have to but the end results are the same, have to or choose to. I will leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 What weight constitutes "smaller" for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
returnofthefunbunch Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Misconception that ZBS lineman need to be small; they need to be able to move. I would agree. Athleticism and quickness are more important in the ZBS. With today's athletes, you can find many big guys with quick feet. Pertaining to the Skins, it does however allow guys like Lichtensteiger and Chester(who would be considered undersized) to still be effective linemen. Problem is, when you need to overpower d-linemen on short yardage or try to hold up against a bull rush from a 340 pound d-lineman, it is more difficult. That's why Trent is so good. He has it all. He has power, he has size, and he has quickness. We just need 4 more "Trents" and we'll be ok. Not too much to ask, is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The talent level of this OL is below average; regardless of scheme. ZBS isn't making the OL weak they're doing that all by themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I don't understand these continued posts (if we don't hire X, it will sour the hiring of Y that I liked yesterday) on ES. NFL front offices make dozens of transactions over the course of an off-season. Each one is independently positive or negative. If people like the hiring of McCloughan and Callahan, why would a perceived bad DC hire change that? I could understand how the overall opinion of team strength could be impacted, but how can hiring of a DC impact the quality of the hiring of a GM or OL coach? We all need to step back from the ledge and just watch things play out. I don't care if Bill Walsh hops out of the dirt to coach us...it's going to be a rough year in 2015 until we let our new GM fetch us some talent. First off when you have little to no expectation for 2015 to be much better than 2014, there is NO ledge to speak of. Let alone step back off. It wouldn't strike you as Allen and Gruden continuing more of the same with EVERY Coach hire if the DC role played out that way? And that WOULDN'T unduly alarm you? I don't think it would be any kind of a stretch if that continued to say Callahan was born of the same but this time we dropped lucky in getting a very good positional Coach. Again, I'm very happy with the Callahan upgrade. But if Barry or Morris followed, I'd be equally disappointed in the process that brought them all here/ upgraded them. 1 more year. The talent level of this OL is below average; regardless of scheme. ZBS isn't making the OL weak they're doing that all by themselves. Absolutely. And to a wider point, I honestly don't think people appreciate or even realise the concepts of most all run blocking schemes are a mismatch. Power run schemes have ZBS concepts. ZBS schemes use some man concepts. Throwing around doing a 'White Board' on the whole subject. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'm still kind of surprised and extremely happy with this hire. Hopefully we can get the right personnel in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Demarco Murray, the real one I suppose, makes a good point. Part of the value of bringing in really good coaches, and really good position coaches, is not just their ability to coach up players on the field, but their ability to see who has real talent and bring those players in. Talent evaluation is just as important as the coaching aspect of these guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddub52 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 So is everyone mad that Bruce Allen hired a coach he had a lot of connections to? Callahan coached with Jon Gruden while Allen was in Oakland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The talent level of this OL is below average; regardless of scheme. ZBS isn't making the OL weak they're doing that all by themselves. Not once in any part of any statement did i say we were bad due to scheme. Our line sucks because we have bad players. I do believe the weakness in the ZBS when you do use smaller players is that you end up struggling to run the ball in the RZ. But of course, if you put top athletes on the line you can run what ever you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 So is everyone mad that Bruce Allen hired a coach he had a lot of connections to? Callahan coached with Jon Gruden while Allen was in Oakland nope. I'm UK SKINS FAN '74 and I'm a hypocrite....haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 nope. I'm UK SKINS FAN '74 and I'm a hypocrite....haha The correct answer is that I'll let you know in a few seasons when I know how it works out. If Callahan busts out... We hate Allen's nepotism! If Callahan recreates the Hogs, then thank God we had a President with good connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.