Skins tell Gruden told he'll be back in 2015

[Zguy28]

Great mobile QBs aren't great because they can run. They are great because they can run, IN ADDITION being a great traditional QB.

See Aaron Rogers for confirmation of this fact.

[skins4eva]

I tend to agree with GHH--I think Gruden has been terrible all year.  This team hasn't made any progress in any measurable metric, not effort, not wins, not attitude--the list goes on and on.  The nail in the coffin for me was Gruden not taking the result of the play and instead taking the five yard penalty at the end of the half on Sunday.  That's situational awareness 101, and Gruden doesn't have it.  The dude is too dumb to be a head coach in this league.  He's not well organized and the details have killed us all year.  I'd be happy if he were canned, but it would just be more lipstick on a pig, since as long as Danny Boy Snyder is in charge, this franchise won't see the light of day.

[SWFLSkins]

So give her nothing then. Someone gave her something. Just tell her to go away. I get she can wear you down, but tight lips don't sink ships when it comes to talking about the inner workings of an organization.

 

You know me Coach, never a loss for words, hahaa. I don't know if I bugged her for historical or hysterical purposes, oh wait, yes I do. 

[TexasSkinsFan]

Media and fan reactions are two things I honestly do not ever trust these days. The media is always going sensationalize things and honesty is not it's policy. This teams been wrecked the last couple of years by the media and I don't trust anything they say

 

Fan reactions I flat out do not trust these days either. Like last weekend, the team looked good against the Giants. I already know that the pass defense sucks and is the worst in the league and that our offensive line is garbage and also worst in the league. But what I saw from Griffin wasn't nearly as bad as some made it out to be here and Griffin played pretty well considering the circumstances with that line and how the refs blatantly screwed him out of a TD run to end the half. Fans acted like he played awful and he didn't. I have seen much much worse from Griffin before.

 

So my take on this is the same that it was last week and the week before and the month before. This team desperately needs a rebuild. Its not a team that a bandaide is going to fix. It needs a full on rebuild. And considering that Griffins last year under contract then it has always made more sense to me that both stay and play this one out next year. If they succeed next season then they both return and if they both fail then they both can go. Dumping Gruden or Griffin early just doesn't make any sense to me

[Redskin Diehard]

This...I have mixed feelings.

 

On the one hand, presenting yourself as a coaching carousel is not a good thing, it makes the established talent stay far away unless they're looking to cash in and hit the beach in 2 years.  In that regard, letting Gruden have another year to make this his team helps.

 

On the other hand, I don't know if Gruden will improve anything.  He doesn't seem to have an idea of how to make the offense work with the pieces he has, it looks like he'll need to replace most of the pieces and head towards a Cinci-esque offense to find success, most importantly by finding an Andy Dalton 2.0.

 

And that's where the biggest problem lies.  I don't think Andy Dalton 2.0 exists anywhere for us to get until at least 2016 (not in the NFL, and not in the draft), which means this 2nd year could ultimately be nothing but a lame duck year.

 

Mix that with a GM who isn't a player guy and the result is he's probably leaning on Gruden and his coaches to help him make picks (along with the scouts, who are of...questionable ability).  The same coaches who are likely to be fired with another bad year.  So of Gruden has another bad year and get fired, not only will we not have found anything close to a coaching solution, we probably won't have built the roster much, and what we have built will be around Jay's systems, which might not be the next guy's systems.

 

 

And if Haslett is still here...

 

...

 

.......I mean, I got nuthin'.

 

There is nothing I can say about Haslett being here next year that doesn't make me just want to give up living.  It's like, would that even be real life?  Would I even be able to feel?

Gruden and Andy Dalton 1.0 have made 3 playoff appearances and have 3 ugly losses to show for it. I can't understand for the life of me why people reference Dalton and Gruden like they are Brady and Belicheck. Gruden's system by no means is a proven commodity and Dalton isn't exactly tearing up the league this season (with his daddy gone). What's with the reverence for these guys???

[TexasSkinsFan]

If there's no point in winning, why even play the game?

 

Hail.

 

Because they have to play the game. If all you think that matters is getting meaningless wins in a 3-10 season then you lost sight that there are short term and long term goals.

 

We must never give up long term goals for short term gains.

 

With one exception. We must never lay down to the Cow****es, never ever ever. We must always beat those guys

[PortisBetts]

Gruden and Andy Dalton 1.0 have made 3 playoff appearances and have 3 ugly losses to show for it. I can't understand for the life of me why people reference Dalton and Gruden like they are Brady and Belicheck. Gruden's system by no means is a proven commodity and Dalton isn't exactly tearing up the league this season (with his daddy gone). What's with the reverence for these guys???

 

You wouldnt take back to back to back playoff appearances? Id rather get embarrassed 1 week in the playoffs rather than  be embarrassed for 16 weeks throughout the year.

Because they have to play the game. If all you think that matters is getting meaningless wins in a 3-10 season then you lost sight that there are short term and long term goals.

 

We must never give up long term goals for short term gains.

 

With one exception. We must never lay down to the Cow****es, never ever ever. We must always beat those guys

 

There is no guarantee that pick 5 is better than pick 10 when you have ****ty talent evaluators. If you have a good talent evaluator, you can find talent at any pick.

 

We need wins. We need to Gruden to show he can get the ship at least steered in the right direction. Hell, i am just sick of watching them lose. I do not want to be 6-26 over 2 years.....7-25 feels so much better.....

 

wow that made me sad typing that.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Because they have to play the game. If all you think that matters is getting meaningless wins in a 3-10 season then you lost sight that there are short term and long term goals.

 

We must never give up long term goals for short term gains.

 

With one exception. We must never lay down to the Cow****es, never ever ever. We must always beat those guys

 

But they weren't tanking for the draft.

 

They came out, fought like crazy, and gave the Giants a game.

 

And their HC quit on them the last minute 35.

 

Hail.

[Aireskoi]

But they weren't tanking for the draft.

 

They came out, fought like crazy, and gave the Giants a game.

 

And their HC quit on them the last minute 35.

 

Hail.

 

What would the narrative been if Gruden ran the offense after RG3 was hurting and Colt was already down, and RG3 was injured with no shot to win?

 

The line was already shifted around and getting abused.  Everyone would have blamed Gruden and rightfully so.

 

See below for details.

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/385741-skins-tell-gruden-told-hell-be-back-in-2015/?p=10073486

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

What would the narrative been if Gruden ran the offense after RG3 was hurting and Colt was already down, and RG3 was injured with no shot to win?

 

The line was already shifted around and getting abused.  Everyone would have blamed Gruden and rightfully so.

 

See below for details.

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/385741-skins-tell-gruden-told-hell-be-back-in-2015/?p=10073486

 

If Robert had been hurt and out of the game he'd probably of been slammed for going into the darn game with only 2 active QB's, the starter of which was in no shape to play to begin with.

 

I seriously doubt anyone but the minority would of castigated him for going for a win in a VERY strong position, down only 11 with a minute 35 and good field position.

 

Protecting the health of a QB he doesn't want in there to begin with is spinning a narrative to save his own failings and then some.

 

Hail.

[Voice_of_Reason]

I'm fine with this as long as they fire Haslett. 

 

Offseason:

 

Fire Haslett

Acquire the best offensive linemen available in FA

Draft the best offensive linemen possible

Have an open QB competition between RG3 and Cousins

(Whispering) And let Orakpo walk. 

 

That probably goes along with firing Haslett.  

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

(Whispering) And let Orakpo walk. 

 

That probably goes along with firing Haslett.  

 

In this scenario, with the status quo retained, do you honestly see EITHER leaving?

 

Hail.

[Voice_of_Reason]

If Robert had been hurt and out of the game he'd probably of been slammed for going into the darn game with only 2 active QB's, the starter of which was in no shape to play to begin with.

 

I seriously doubt anyone but the minority would of castigated him for going for a win in a VERY strong position, down only 11 with a minute 35 and good field position.

 

Protecting the health of a QB he doesn't want in there to begin with is spinning a narrative to save his own failings and then some.

 

Hail.

I think you're piling on. 

 

If you honestly believe down 11 with a minute 35 to go is a strong position, when your OL even more resembles a matador, and you haven't been able to hit anything down field all year, then you've entered the realm of emotional bashing where nothing, even the right move, can be seen as positive.

 

The right move in that situation, with that OL, that QB, and that situation was to wave the white flag and get on with it.  There's absolutely nothing positive that could have come out of it.  Even if it wasn't an injury, you'd have seen, Sack, Sack, Fumble, something like that.  

 

And then the narrative would be "Why did he put Griffin back there to get killed!"

 

There was zero chance of success, and anything that Gruden did at that point was going to end up with the folks who have made up their mind on him castigating him for whatever decision he made.  

 

NOTE: I honestly don't give a rats behind if he's retained or fired.  He's coached poorly enough to be fired.  But he was also handed a roster of flaming poop, and asked to do something with it.  He failed.  

 

The real problem has nothing to do with Gruden or Griffin.  It has to do with the organization and the structure.  I sortof thought this was going to happen at the beginning of the year, which is why I started the "House that Bruce Built" thread.  

In this scenario, with the status quo retained, do you honestly see EITHER leaving?

 

Hail.

I actually do.  I think that Haslett is not going to be re-signed. And if Haslett goes, I think that Orakpo goes too.  

 

I'm REALLY hoping they don't promote Raheem Morris to DC.  Because he's another member of the TB mafia, and has overseen the most leaky part of the defense since he's been here.  

 

But I think the odds are that Haslett leaves, Orakpo leaves, and Morris is promoted.  That's my hunch. I hope I'm wrong.  

[JSSkinz]

The same Kirk who has been inactive the last 6 weeks in spite of being 100% healthy? #wishfulthinking

 

Yes thats him, Cousins is the best Qb on this team right now based on what I've seen this season.  There is no doubt in my mind he will beat out Colt and Rg3 in the preseason if he has that opportunity and doesn't turn the ball over.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

If AJ Smith is promoted to director of player personnel, my question is, what the hell has he been doing up until this point?  Just collecting a check?  Drafting guys from the area his son scouts?  

 

If that is all the FO movement we get this offseason, I will be disappointed.

 

I understand both sides of the argument for keeping/firing Gruden.  My biggest fear is that he has already lost the respect he needs inside the locker room, and that our players don't believe in him.  The circus surrounding the team is one thing, but when the locker room is lost, I don't see anyway he wins it back.

 

If the coaches can't earn the respect of the players, the players don't buy in, the fans don't buy in, and Fedex will look like a ghost town before the end of next September.

 

I truly think the only way Snyder can avoid an all out fan revolt is to fire Bruce Allen, and unfortunately for Gruden, that means he's gotta go too.  A re-shuffling at the end of the year is just gonna pour gasoline on this already raging inferno.  I don't think just firing Haslett is gonna be enough.  The players and fans will see right through it.

 

**** you Snyder.

[PortisBetts]

Yes thats him, Cousins is the best Qb on this team right now based on what I've seen this season.  There is no doubt in my mind he will beat out Colt and Rg3 in the preseason if he has that opportunity and doesn't turn the ball over.

 

So if he changes his most massive flaw, he will be good. You can say that about any player. I can play this game too-

 

Griffin will beat out Colt and Cousins if has that opportunity and plays more decisivley

McCoy will beat out Cousins and Griffin if he has that opportunity and makes quicker reads to compensate for his lack of arm strength

 

If Griffin was more decisive

If Colt didnt have a weak arm

If Cousins doesnt turn the ball over

If Orakpo learned another pass rush move

If Meriweather learned how to wrap tackle

I can go on.

[boobiemiles]

This is terrible news.  get him out of here.  The team has not improved over the course of the season.  Jay is suppose to be a QB guru. I hate Dan Snyder now.  He was quick to pull the trigger on Marty Schottenheimer, even though he won his last 5 games.  But now he is going to retain Jay who has accomplished nothing.  A terrible move. Dan has learned nothing.  Both Bruce Allen and Jay need to go.  How do you make this decision with two games to go.  Why postpone the inevitable?

[Aireskoi]

If Robert had been hurt and out of the game he'd probably of been slammed for going into the darn game with only 2 active QB's, the starter of which was in no shape to play to begin with.

 

I seriously doubt anyone but the minority would of castigated him for going for a win in a VERY strong position, down only 11 with a minute 35 and good field position.

 

Protecting the health of a QB he doesn't want in there to begin with is spinning a narrative to save his own failings and then some.

 

Hail.

 

Wow you haven't been like this since you were all out of your mind pissed off about not going all in for Jay Cutler.

[JSSkinz]

So if he changes his most massive flaw, he will be good. You can say that about any player. I can play this game too-

 

Griffin will beat out Colt and Cousins if has that opportunity and plays more decisivley

McCoy will beat out Cousins and Griffin if he has that opportunity and makes quicker reads to compensate for his lack of arm strength

 

If Griffin was more decisive

If Colt didnt have a weak arm

If Cousins doesnt turn the ball over

If Orakpo learned another pass rush move

If Meriweather learned how to wrap tackle

I can go on.

 

 

I disagree, Griffin has many more issues that just being decisive, Colts weak arm is only one of his flaws.  Meriweather is old and Orakpo is injury prone so no need to even discuss that.

 

 

My point was 90% of what Kirk does is very good, that missing 10% is the turnovers.  I dont think any other Qb on our staff is as complete a player but if Kirk is really a headcase and cant stop turning the ball over it wont matter, he will be worthless and out of the league quickly.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I think you're piling on.

If you honestly believe down 11 with a minute 35 to go is a strong position, when your OL even more resembles a matador, and you haven't been able to hit anything down field all year, then you've entered the realm of emotional bashing where nothing, even the right move, can be seen as positive.

The right move in that situation, with that OL, that QB, and that situation was to wave the white flag and get on with it. There's absolutely nothing positive that could have come out of it. Even if it wasn't an injury, you'd have seen, Sack, Sack, Fumble, something like that.

And then the narrative would be "Why did he put Griffin back there to get killed!"

There was zero chance of success ..

You are NEVER out of a game in the NFL down two scores with over a minute and a half left on the clock and great field position REGARDLESS of perceived personnel weakness'.

To NOT go for the win there (made even more laughable by the fact we got the ball back not from an ensuing onside, but a fumbled punt recovery) is nothing shy of criminal.

Paint it any darn way you like but he quit on you Sunday.

Sorry for not being as ready to accept that from my HC.

Wow you haven't been like this since you were all out of your mind pissed off about not going all in for Jay Cutler.

Dudes a complete and utter fraud.

Hail.

[ThomasRoane]

Media and fan reactions are two things I honestly do not ever trust these days. The media is always going sensationalize things and honesty is not it's policy. This teams been wrecked the last couple of years by the media and I don't trust anything they say

 

Fan reactions I flat out do not trust these days either. Like last weekend, the team looked good against the Giants. I already know that the pass defense sucks and is the worst in the league and that our offensive line is garbage and also worst in the league. But what I saw from Griffin wasn't nearly as bad as some made it out to be here and Griffin played pretty well considering the circumstances with that line and how the refs blatantly screwed him out of a TD run to end the half. Fans acted like he played awful and he didn't. I have seen much much worse from Griffin before.

 

So my take on this is the same that it was last week and the week before and the month before. This team desperately needs a rebuild. Its not a team that a bandaide is going to fix. It needs a full on rebuild. And considering that Griffins last year under contract then it has always made more sense to me that both stay and play this one out next year. If they succeed next season then they both return and if they both fail then they both can go. Dumping Gruden or Griffin early just doesn't make any sense to me

 

I wouldn't say that Griffin had a really good game but he was noticeably better than he had played before.  The throw away thru the back of the end zone was a good decision; although he was sacked the next play.  He's still missing some plays but you could see him showing emotion that he was mad at himself.  That's progress.  Because it means that he realized what he did wrong.  I think that before Robert was so utterly clueless that he didn't even know enough about his assignments to realize that he had messed up.

 

Now, this is not about his intelligence.  The guy is crazy smart.  But I think his ego got in the way of any progress that he could have made when Gruden put him in after the bye.  Being benched and hearing how his team mates didn't care for him just may have woke him up.  Finally!  You don't see the twitter and facebook messages.  You don't hear about him working on his brand or talking as much about failures from his team mates. He has obviously been studying more and Sunday I noticed a different Robert when he was sitting next to Sean and looking at film.  He had his arm around him and he was intently listening and looking at what Sean had to say.

 

I think Jay may have finally seen a glimmer of what he's been waiting for in Robert. That now, after everything they've gone thru, he's finally ready to listen and learn how to play like an NFL QB.  Which, let's face it, has got to be one of the toughest jobs on the planet cause only about 7 guys in the NFL can perform well week to week.  After this game I thought for the first time this year that there may be hope for this kid yet.  Yes, he still holds the ball and takes dumb sacks.  He still misses open receivers.  But this Sunday I could see a guy who was earnestly trying to do what the coach asked him to do.  And I'm sure to Jay that makes all the difference in the world.  The kid still has a rocket arm and when he's in his groove he's got the 'it' factor to be dynamic again - albeit from the pocket in the future. 

 

I wouldn't write off the Jay Gruden - Robert Giffin partnership just yet.  I think you'll see Robert take a few more baby steps this week and maybe even more next week.  That would be a HUGE bonus for the team.  And if it doesn't work out?  Then both could say they really gave it a good shot and then you move on with another QB.  But more importantly, build a good team around whomever will end up back there.  That's job one.

[Miren24]

is gruden trying to get himself fired now? Why does keep blasting his own players with the media? Why do this to djax right before they play the eagles?

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/16/jay-gruden-gives-lukewarm-assessment-of-desean-praises-maclin/

[Voice_of_Reason]

You are NEVER out of a game in the NFL down two scores with over a minute and a half left on the clock and great field position REGARDLESS of perceived personnel weakness'.

To NOT go for the win there (made even more laughable by the fact we got the ball back not from an ensuing onside, but a fumbled punt recovery) is nothing shy of criminal.

Paint it any darn way you like but he quit on you Sunday.

Sorry for not being as ready to accept that from my HC.

 

I think you're wrong.  It was the right call to make in that situation.  He's made 1000 bad calls.  That call was the right call.  

 

 

I also think that if something had happened to Griffin, you'd be screaming your head off about him putting him out there in that situation.

 

I think, at this point, you're just going to scream your head off. No matter what the decision is, you're going to go ballistic.  

 

Shrug.  

 

EDIT: I want to call you out on one specific word: Perceived personnel weakness.  If you're going to try and sit there and argue that Compton - Luavao - Chester - Long - Polumbus is "Perceived" to be a personnel weakness, you've lost your freaking mind.  

 

That's the most downright awful OL in the league in the last 50 years. And you're going to ignore that fact, and just ask your QB to sit back in the "pocket" and try and complete passes?

 

Part of being a HC is knowing your personnel.  If Gruden saw that personnel, and it DIDN'T affect his thinking, then he's more incompetent than I think he is. 

[ThomasRoane]

is gruden trying to get himself fired now? Why does keep blasting his own players with the media? 

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/12/16/jay-gruden-gives-lukewarm-assessment-of-desean-praises-maclin/

 

No way, Jay's been like that with every player every week.  That is who he is.  He tells it like it is.  He did the same thing with Hatcher and got Hatcher to play an awesome game the next week.  Do you want a coach to just bs a player and say he had a great game when really he was average?  That's been the problem with the DMV.  We've been so starved for a winner that we consistenly baby players.

 

When DJax can put a team on his back and single handedly will the team to win then you can treat him like royalty.  Until then?  Treat him like any other player.  Garcon works much harder than DJax and I doubt he's 100% healthy.  He comes to work every game whether he gets 5 balls thrown to him or 1.  Have you heard Gruden call him out? 

[StephenDavis]

The question is, what kind of success gets Gruden a 3rd year? At this point 6-10 would be a big improvement.