worldpost Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ANYONE who feels we need to keep a terrible coach for the illusion of stability deserves the same. I'm sure the Browns don't regret canning their 1st year HC last offseason. I asked this question before and got only one answer from Gruden supporters. Can you show me anything with this team right now that shows we are heading in the right direction? Anything? The only answer I got was "Gruden is standing up to the front office". Please, I'm begging you Gruden supporters. What has he done here that has shown he is righting the ship? Anyone? The right things he is doing is trying to end this culture of laziness, where poor performance is looked over. How many players have lost their starting job due to poor performance.. That's right more than the last two years.. Including the QB. So take your Browns analogy and throw it in the garbage. They had alot more talent than we do, and frankly gave up on that coach as many fans are suggesting here. I do believe they went through 3 QB's as we are, and frankly until Manziel proves hes' a world beater, pulling their starting QB is a very questionable move. Enjoy Zorn. 2.0 3.0 and 4.0 if we fire yet another coach due to RG3 and the FO. Also anyone who thinks the Cleveland Media compares to the DC media is delusional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger.Staubach Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 My 2 cents (which isn't worth a bowl of ****) is that if an organization is in disarray, it takes multiple years to sort through the trash. While the HC and Owner may disagree on which QB is best for the team, the coach should be given the leeway to decide the direction of the ship. To change course (by firing Gruden) is just crazy to me. Give the man a chance to put the personnel he deems valuable in place. To me...unless you pull a Zorn field goal attempt, you deserve 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ANYONE considering firing Gruden after one year.. deserves another 20 years of misery... No coach unless taken out on a straight jacket deserves only one year.. It's ludicrous and reckless. The Browns fired Chudzinski last year after 1 season. They hired Mike Pettine going into the 2014 season. The Browns who where 4-12 in 2013, with a new coach are sitting at 7-6 and in playoff contention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ANYONE who feels we need to keep a terrible coach for the illusion of stability deserves the same. I'm sure the Browns don't regret canning their 1st year HC last offseason. I asked this question before and got only one answer from Gruden supporters. Can you show me anything with this team right now that shows we are heading in the right direction? Anything? The only answer I got was "Gruden is standing up to the front office". Please, I'm begging you Gruden supporters. What has he done here that has shown he is righting the ship? Anyone? I think this mess is bigger than Jay realized, hell, this mess was enough to get Mike Shannahan to quit. I do feel the offense (with competent QB play) is better and will only get better with some OL who are even average. I think the defense is far better (talent wise minus safety) and needs a new DC to showcase players strengths. I think Jay does not have all of his type of players on this team and I am willing to give him the offseason to try and fill the holes. I believe they are 4-5 players away from being very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldpost Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The Browns fired Chudzinski last year after 1 season. They hired Mike Pettine going into the 2014 season. The Browns who where 4-12 in 2013, with a new coach are sitting at 7-6 and in playoff contention. See Above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The right things he is doing is trying to end this culture of laziness, where poor performance is looked over. How many players have lost their starting job due to poor performance.. That's right more than the last two years.. Including the QB. So take your Browns analogy and throw it in the garbage. They had alot more talent than we do, and frankly gave up on that coach as many fans are suggesting here. I do believe they went through 3 QB's as we are, and frankly until Manziel proves hes' a world beater, pulling their starting QB is a very questionable move. Enjoy Zorn. 2.0 3.0 and 4.0 if we fire yet another coach due to RG3 and the FO. Also anyone who thinks the Cleveland Media compares to the DC media is delusional The team has regressed as the season went on. Look at teams with 1st time HCs like the Browns and Texans. They both have winning records and are in playoff contention. We're 3-10 and have played 3 of our worst games of the season over the last 4 weeks. That's not the sign of a team that is righting the ship. Whether you think the HC is standing up to the FO or not, I want to see results on the field. 3-10 is not what any of us wanted to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Shaun Hill is no different than McCoy, he is a journeyman QB who is only starting due to Bradford injury and Austin ineffectiveness. I would take Cousins over Hill every day of the week! I would even take McCoy over Hill. Of course, I would take all 3 over RG3 though. Colt McCoy has never shown any ability to be a starting QB in the NFL, Shaun hill has. Why not pick up Ryan Fitzpatrick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The right things he is doing is trying to end this culture of laziness, where poor performance is looked over. How many players have lost their starting job due to poor performance.. That's right more than the last two years.. Including the QB. So take your Browns analogy and throw it in the garbage. They had alot more talent than we do, and frankly gave up on that coach as many fans are suggesting here. I do believe they went through 3 QB's as we are, and frankly until Manziel proves hes' a world beater, pulling their starting QB is a very questionable move. Enjoy Zorn. 2.0 3.0 and 4.0 if we fire yet another coach due to RG3 and the FO. Also anyone who thinks the Cleveland Media compares to the DC media is delusional Bwhahahaha. He's ending the culture of laziness? HAHAHAHA..... Oh dear lord. How many players have lost their starting job? I'd say on offense, maybe 3? Griffin, Cousins, and Polumbus? Enjoy Zorn 2.0? No thanks. I'm not enjoying what is currently going on. I want to get rid of Zorn 2.0, not suffer another year of it. Who care's about the Cleveland vs Washington media? Are you suggesting that we shouldn't get rid of a bad coach because the media will write bad articles about us? So what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The team has regressed as the season went on. Look at teams with 1st time HCs like the Browns and Texans. They both have winning records and are in playoff contention. We're 3-10 and have played 3 of our worst games of the season over the last 4 weeks. That's not the sign of a team that is righting the ship. Whether you think the HC is standing up to the FO or not, I want to see results on the field. 3-10 is not what any of us wanted to see. So using the Texans and Browns is not a good comparison, both have very good defenses and Houston is 1 season removed from being a very dominate team in AFC. They both had better foundations to begin with. Colt McCoy has never shown any ability to be a starting QB in the NFL, Shaun hill has. Why not pick up Ryan Fitzpatrick? See, now your just making statements to make statements. I stand by what I said. Actually, I take Cousins over each QB mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldpost Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The team has regressed as the season went on. Look at teams with 1st time HCs like the Browns and Texans. They both have winning records and are in playoff contention. We're 3-10 and have played 3 of our worst games of the season over the last 4 weeks. That's not the sign of a team that is righting the ship. Whether you think the HC is standing up to the FO or not, I want to see results on the field. 3-10 is not what any of us wanted to see. How are you going to see results on the field this year.. Did the Front Office find a special Free Agent.. No i didn't think so.. I'm trying real hard not to be too snarky here.. This team was very poor at the start of the year and they have regressed due to injury and talent level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So using the Texans and Browns is not a good comparison, both have very good defenses and Houston is 1 season removed from being a very dominate team in AFC. They both had better foundations to begin with. And we didn't? Our offense consists of former Pro Bowlers: Griffin, Morris, Williams, Jackson and Morris. As well as guys like Garcon and Reed. To say we didn't have a foundation, isn't necessariily true. Yes, our defense was bad and still is, but our offense has some very good pieces. What did the Browns have on offense? Josh Gordon? He was suspended for their first 10 games. Jordan Cameron? Been hurt most of the season. Big FA signing Ben Tate? Not even on the team anymore. Yeah their defense and some nice pieces, but this wasn't a team littered with talent. Same with the Texans. Sure their defense was talented, but their offense wasn't much outside of Foster, Johnson and Hopkins. Yet they've found a way to get to 7-6. Of the last place teams from last season, pretty much just us, the Jags, Bucs and Raiders haven't improved from last season. That's not good comany to be in. How are you going to see results on the field this year.. Did the Front Office find a special Free Agent.. No i didn't think so.. I'm trying real hard not to be too snarky here.. This team was very poor at the start of the year and they have regressed due to injury and talent level DeSean Jackson. I can find articles that some had the Skins as a dark horse team to win the division. Did I think we would? No. I certainly thought we'd be better than 3-10 right now. I thought this was a team that would hover around .500 for most of the year. We haven't sniffed .500 since Week 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Bwhahahaha. He's ending the culture of laziness? HAHAHAHA..... Oh dear lord. How many players have lost their starting job? I'd say on offense, maybe 3? Griffin, Cousins, and PolumbusWell, who else would you choose? Long and Moses may not be ready yet on offense. But besides OL and QB, who else on offense should be benched? Garçon, DJax, Reed, Helu, Morris, Williams, lichtenstiger? On Defense, who would you bench? Half the Defense is playing due to starters being injured. I would love to bench both Safeties but who plays instead? We know Clark and Merriweather will not be here next year, you could play some younger players. Any ideas who else should be benched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 So using the Texans and Browns is not a good comparison, both have very good defenses and Houston is 1 season removed from being a very dominate team in AFC. They both had better foundations to begin with. See, now your just making statements to make statements. I stand by what I said. Actually, I take Cousins over each QB mentioned. I'm not making statements just to make statements, Hill is a better QB than McCoy and Cousins. This is fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 And we didn't? Our offense consists of former Pro Bowlers: Griffin, Morris, Williams, Jackson and Morris. As well as guys like Garcon and Reed. To say we didn't have a foundation, isn't necessariily true. Yes, our defense was bad and still is, but our offense has some very good pieces. What did the Browns have on offense? Josh Gordon? He was suspended for their first 10 games. Jordan Cameron? Been hurt most of the season. Big FA signing Ben Tate? Not even on the team anymore. Yeah their defense and some nice pieces, but this wasn't a team littered with talent. Our offense lacks a QB, yes, RG3 made pro bowl 2 years ago but hasn't done jack since but get worse. Had they brought in a new DC this year and got better QB play, we would be hovering around .500 or better now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfl guru Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 The right things he is doing is trying to end this culture of laziness, where poor performance is looked over. How many players have lost their starting job due to poor performance.. That's right more than the last two years.. Including the QB. So take your Browns analogy and throw it in the garbage. They had alot more talent than we do, and frankly gave up on that coach as many fans are suggesting here. I do believe they went through 3 QB's as we are, and frankly until Manziel proves hes' a world beater, pulling their starting QB is a very questionable move. Enjoy Zorn. 2.0 3.0 and 4.0 if we fire yet another coach due to RG3 and the FO. Also anyone who thinks the Cleveland Media compares to the DC media is delusional End the culture of laziness? Please point me to details suggesting that. I've read Jay does his due work and goes home to enjoy himself, setting the same expectation on his players. By all definitions a players coach, but when the team sucks, theres no time to be sitting, chilling out. Besides QB and Polumbus, where is this poor performance benching? And dude, RG3 is not the reason Gruden has poor head coaching skills. These are 2 separate conversations, stop trying to mesh the two just so you can slide blame on Griffin. Dude hasn't played the last 2 weeks and we've lost a combined 73-27, explain that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I'm not making statements just to make statements, Hill is a better QB than McCoy and Cousins. This is fact. That is your opinion. I just disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Probos Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I think he's gone -- just have that feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worldpost Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Bwhahahaha. He's ending the culture of laziness? HAHAHAHA..... Oh dear lord. How many players have lost their starting job? I'd say on offense, maybe 3? Griffin, Cousins, and Polumbus? Enjoy Zorn 2.0? No thanks. I'm not enjoying what is currently going on. I want to get rid of Zorn 2.0, not suffer another year of it. Who care's about the Cleveland vs Washington media? Are you suggesting that we shouldn't get rid of a bad coach because the media will write bad articles about us? So what. Seriously.. Enjoy your self made panacea.. And yes the media does effect the moral and general impression of an organization And we didn't? Our offense consists of former Pro Bowlers: Griffin, Morris, Williams, Jackson and Morris. As well as guys like Garcon and Reed. To say we didn't have a foundation, isn't necessariily true. Yes, our defense was bad and still is, but our offense has some very good pieces. What did the Browns have on offense? Josh Gordon? He was suspended for their first 10 games. Jordan Cameron? Been hurt most of the season. Big FA signing Ben Tate? Not even on the team anymore. Yeah their defense and some nice pieces, but this wasn't a team littered with talent. Same with the Texans. Sure their defense was talented, but their offense wasn't much outside of Foster, Johnson and Hopkins. Yet they've found a way to get to 7-6. Of the last place teams from last season, pretty much just us, the Jags, Bucs and Raiders haven't improved from last season. That's not good comany to be in. DeSean Jackson. I can find articles that some had the Skins as a dark horse team to win the division. Did I think we would? No. I certainly thought we'd be better than 3-10 right now. I thought this was a team that would hover around .500 for most of the year. We haven't sniffed .500 since Week 2. Jackson is a good/ borderline great player.. If RG3 played anywhere close to his 'potential' injury effected or no.. this team would be north of 3-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profusion Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Unfortunately, I think the decision whether to fire Gruden will be made purely for marketing reasons, not what's best for the team. Right now, it's looking like a Zorn situation, and you can bet Snyder and Allen are busy calculating whether there's a big splashy hire they could make in the off-season that will get the publicity going in the right direction again. If not, there's no way that Snyder is going to eat the rest of Gruden's contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Unfortunately, I think the decision whether to fire Gruden will be made purely for marketing reasons, not what's best for the team. Right now, it's looking like a Zorn situation, and you can bet Snyder and Allen are busy calculating whether there's a big splashy hire they could make in the off-season that will get the publicity going in the right direction again. If not, there's no way that Snyder is going to eat the rest of Gruden's contract. Snyder and Allen aren't calculating anything. If Gruden bombs than Allen goes with him. Giving him $20 mil. was Allens decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmd24 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 ANYONE who feels we need to keep a terrible coach for the illusion of stability deserves the same. I'm sure the Browns don't regret canning their 1st year HC last offseason. The thing about the Browns is that Haslam got rid of CEO Joe Banner and GM Michael Lombardi shortly after canning Chudzinski. IIRC, it was because they (Banner and Lombardi) fired the coach after just one year. The prior year they tried to get everyone and their brother to take the job, including Chip Kelly, Ken Whisenhunt, Marc Trestman, Doug Marrone, Ray Horton, Mike Zimmer, and maybe a couple of others before settling on Chudzinski. In no way does this defend Gruden. In fact, I'm merely stating that I think it reflects very poorly on the leadership to hire a coach only to fire him a year later. The incompetence in such a situation is unlikely to stop at the head coaching position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rskins06 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Snyder and Allen aren't calculating anything. If Gruden bombs than Allen goes with him. Giving him $20 mil. was Allens decision. Agreed, that may be another reason Jay doesn't get fired. Bruce may be in self preservation mode and knows he is attached at the hip with Jay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profusion Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Snyder and Allen aren't calculating anything. If Gruden bombs than Allen goes with him. Giving him $20 mil. was Allens decision. 1) You're thinking rationally, but this is Dan Snyder we're talking about. Allen seems to have done a very good job of becoming Cerrato Mk. II, so it wouldn't surprise me if Snyder gets rid of Gruden while keeping his New Best Buddy around. 2) If Snyder replaces both Gruden and Allen, it'll still be marketing-driven, and both their replacements will be splashy hires to that end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 1) You're thinking rationally, but this is Dan Snyder we're talking about. Allen seems to have done a very good job of becoming Cerrato Mk. II, so it wouldn't surprise me if Snyder gets rid of Gruden while keeping his New Best Buddy around. Allen has been in charge for one year. Shanahan ran the roster during his tenure. Where is your evidence of things like this?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TouchdownSkin Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 YES! Its exactly what I said.I dont care about RG3. RG3 has no role in this. He can stay or go. Its completely independent to what I see with Gruden.Stop looking at perception and focus on what is happening on the field. Gruden is a bad coach. He is actually at Zorn levels. Stop supporting someone because you care about how everyone else looks. I would say he's worse than Zorn. Surely anyone with any knowledge of the NFL, or management in general, would agree that Gruden has brought this on himself. It's not only what he's not done, but what he has done as well. Were I a player, I wouldn't trust him for a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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