ESPN980: Could Jay Really Be One-and-Done?

[Taylor703]

Yea, we'll get someone. But the real Gruden turned it down, so have others. We want someone good. And they will wait it out before taking a job with an owner thats going to tell you what QB to play and then fire you after the first year.

The real Gruden has turned every offer down. The guy loves what he's doing and doesn't want to coach anymore. The owner clearly hasn't told him what QB to play because Robert has been on the bench for two weeks. Give that **** a rest.

Well, I suppose at this point it's largely an empirical issue, but despite Cowen's law that there is a literature on everything, I doubt that there is any research on whether 1) Snyder is a bad owner, and 2) whether bad owners have trouble recruiting candidates, even given a willingness to pay more money. (That would be a great topic for the analytics community though ...)

But given your premise that Snyder's money makes up for his other faults, by all means, fire Gruden.

Yeah, you still aren't getting it. Let's just agree to disagree.

[HogsOfWar]

The real Gruden has turned every offer down. The guy loves what he's doing and doesn't want to coach anymore. The owner clearly hasn't told him what QB to play because Robert has been on the bench for two weeks. Give that **** a rest.

Yeah, you still aren't getting it. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

We'll find out soon enough because it's only a matter of time before Gruden is fired. I suspect that at this point the Snyder is regarded as "Al Davis in his senility bad" rather than merely "Jerry Jones bad", and that makes all the difference.

[MCnDaHouse]

So Snyder is supposed to shell out $15 mill for Gruden to sit at home? I don't think so. Snyder needs to learn to stop playing games with his toy. Allow the coaches to coach, allow the scouts to scout, allow football minds to make the decisions and stop dabbling into football decisions. We all know RGme was all on him and possibly Allen. Time to move on from that debacle.

 

What I'd do:

 

1- Fire Haslett, bring in best DC available at whatever price it takes.

2- What is Russ Grimm doing? not coaching! call him up see if he's willing to come fix this OL.

3- Trade or release RGme. Too much work not enough time.

4- Keep McCoy/Cousins for another year.

5- Draft big OL, and DB's.

6- talk to Jay Gruden and see if his brother can come in and coach up the QB's in the offseason.

 

We know the scheme works as it worked for Gruden in Cinci. Clearly the OL is getting run over, too small, and the team is not utilizing the zone blocking as much. Gruden's scheme seemed to utilize the man to man blocking. Get bigger OL. Try to get Russ Grimm in here to get OL in check. Make him Assistant HC as he was in Arizona. Build up the OL then see if McCoy/Cousins is worth keeping or go draft a QB who will have a decent OL to stand behind. Haslett = not good everywhere he went except semi pro. no wonder. it shows.

 

I would agree with all this with the exception of #3. I think the DC change is a must and the offensive line needs to be first priority. The defense when healthy has shown it can play. The play calling is what is suspect although we do need help in the secondary and a pass rusher.

[HogsOfWar]

The real Gruden has turned every offer down. The guy loves what he's doing and doesn't want to coach anymore. The owner clearly hasn't told him what QB to play because Robert has been on the bench for two weeks. Give that **** a rest.

Yeah, you still aren't getting it. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

Another point you're missing is that even if the hot coaching prospect does come here - which at this point in Snyder's tenure I highly doubt - he'll be undermined by Snyder. Snyder likes hanging out with the athletes. That's the big reason why he's an owner. So what happens when the coach clashes with one of Snyder's buddies? We see it played out right now - a locker room divided between owner and coach, and a coach who is likely to be fired either this year or next.

[nfl guru]

Why is this timmysmith guy still endorsing Cousins? Have you not seen the kid in shorts and a t-shirt on the sideline.  Have you not heard about how the coaching staff has basically given up on the guy because he gets too dejected after adversity.  

 

Give it a break.  Cousins is not the franchise QB and Gruden had a direct role in blurring his and Griffins futures. QB whisperer my ass, dude is a offensive coordinator who had the benefit of Mike Zimmer and Marvin Lewis to supply him with a defensive backbone of those "successful" cincy teams.  

 

Judging him as offensive coordinator=C+, B- and as a head coach=D-.  Dude's in over his head here in DC.

[zCommander]

Gruden will be here next season. Kirk will win the QB competition in camp and will start the 2015 season.

[Rskins06]

Y

Why is this timmysmith guy still endorsing Cousins? Have you not seen the kid in shorts and a t-shirt on the sideline.  Have you not heard about how the coaching staff has basically given up on the guy because he gets too dejected after adversity.

This is not an accurate statement. Today, all 3 QBs are taking reps with the starters, look at the press conference and watch Gruden's reaction to Kirk. Jay even said he could see Kirk starting again this year.

I don't think the coaching staff has given up on him, in fact, after trading RG3 this offseason, I would guess he gets the first shot at starting again next year (last 2 statements are pure speculation on my part).

I think the ONLY QB you could make an argument for coaching staff giving up on is RG3.

[Taylor703]

Gruden will be here next season. Kirk will win the QB competition in camp and will start the 2015 season.

So what you're saying is we're going to be awful next year as well...

[nfl guru]

If you guys believe in your heart that Kirk will be the starting QB in 2015, then WHY is he in shorts and a t-shirt? Why is Griffin (a guy presumed to be traded/cut this offseason) 2nd on the depth chart. Explain.

 

If thats the case, then he should be getting all the reps and trying to improve upon his game.  It's like we're staring our long term plan right in the face and we don't want to get started on it.  Doesn't make any sense to me.

[Laron Burgundy]

So what you're saying is we're going to be awful next year as well...

 

Sad to say, but I don't see any way that we aren't bad next year.  5 wins would make me ecstatic.

[zCommander]

So what you're saying is we're going to be awful next year as well...

 

Not necessarily. Get the O Line fixed or improved a little. Kirk is good in the pocket. INT is all about timing and WR getting to the spot before the QB gets hit. RG3 is traded in offseason (I still think there is a slight possibility that he might still be starting next year though) then the two QB left will be Colt and Kirk. Unless they pickup a another QB that might be better.

 

But right now this is they way I see it. I am no particular QB lover. I only love QB that can get the job done.

[MattFancy]

If you guys believe in your heart that Kirk will be the starting QB in 2015, then WHY is he in shorts and a t-shirt? Why is Griffin (a guy presumed to be traded/cut this offseason) 2nd on the depth chart. Explain.

 

If thats the case, then he should be getting all the reps and trying to improve upon his game.  It's like we're staring our long term plan right in the face and we don't want to get started on it.  Doesn't make any sense to me.

 

This is what I don't understand either. Kirk and Robert should be getting plenty of reps if they truly are in the plans for next season. No reason to keep trotting McCoy out there every week. Gruden said before that he is a big reps guy. Then if RG3 is still in the team's plans for next season, why is he not getting reps in practice?

[Taylor703]

Not necessarily. Get the O Line fixed or improved a little. Kirk is good in the pocket. INT is all about timing and WR getting to the spot before the QB gets hit. RG3 is traded in offseason (I still think there is a slight possibility that he might still be starting next year though) then the two QB left will be Colt and Kirk. Unless they pickup a another QB that might be better.

But right now this is they way I see it. I am no particular QB lover. I only love QB that can get the job done.

Dude Kirk was throwing picks right to defenders. Some of them didn't even have a receiver in the vicinity. This idea that Kirk is salvageable but RGIII is a lost cause is so silly. I wish people would just admit that this is more about how they personally for about Robert as opposed to some magical cure for Kirks penchant to go colorblind.

[VRIEL1]

So in three seasons from now when Gruden is still failing, the team is still making the same mistakes and looks like an undisciplined mess what will be your excuse then?

 

Here's my take... there are two glaring problems on Offense which Gruden was in charge of;

 

1- The QB situation

2- The OL

 

I think if they get rid of RGme, keep developing McCoy and Cousins whom are not locker room cancers and don't have as many issues to fix, and "IF" they could swindle Russ Grimm to come in and help build up the OL next year and fix the mental mistakes on the OL ie; discipline then most of the problems should be resolved on the offensive side of the ball. Defense if a different story.

[ddub52]

I cant understand this mindset.

He is showing to be a bad coach. This team has not improved. It has not gotten better and he is being outcoached. He talks too much to the media and just looks lost and over his head. This offense has actually gotten worse. He is a bad coach.

I usually dont support firing a coach after one season, but this is an exception. He really is a bad coach. Why keep someone that is obviously failing around?

 

But... but... he's hard-nosed and tells it like it is. And his offense is proven. 

[ddub52]

Folks, we don't know the locker room.  Look at the RG3 punting alone bit.  It leads to comments on how the locker room must be a lonely place for him.  The theorizing within just shows how much is guess work.  For all we know it's the exact opposite.  The locker room could be all backslaps and you'll work it outs.  And sometimes when you're frustrated or pissed at yourself  you want to be allowed to feel that way.

 

I just wish people would stop acting like they knew things.  Admit that we're guessing here folks

 

Well we know players are getting in fights at practice. That might be a pretty good indication that the locker room isn't in a good place. 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12009276/bashaud-breeland-andre-roberts-washington-redskins-trade-punches

[codeorama]

Dude Kirk was throwing picks right to defenders. Some of them didn't even have a receiver in the vicinity. This idea that Kirk is salvageable but RGIII is a lost cause is so silly. I wish people would just admit that this is more about how they personally for about Robert as opposed to some magical cure for Kirks penchant to go colorblind.

 

Personally, I don't think either is the answer. Kirk choked.  I feel like he doesn't have it mentally, can't deal with the pressure.  But, that being said, between the 2, Cousins would be an easier fix.  Griffin has no NFL qb skills.  The only way Griffin will be successful is if they switch to a read option style offense.  Griffin DOES NOT want to run a read option offense.  So he is worthless.

[Taylor703]

Here's my take... there are two glaring problems on Offense which Gruden was in charge of;

1- The QB situation

2- The OL

I think if they get rid of RGme, keep developing McCoy and Cousins whom are not locker room cancers and don't have as many issues to fix, and "IF" they could swindle Russ Grimm to come in and help build up the OL next year and fix the mental mistakes on the OL ie; discipline then most of the problems should be resolved on the offensive side of the ball. Defense if a different story.

If you want to have an actual conversation than stop referring to the guy as RGme. It completely takes the steam out of your post.

[nfl guru]

This is what I don't understand either. Kirk and Robert should be getting plenty of reps if they truly are in the plans for next season. No reason to keep trotting McCoy out there every week. Gruden said before that he is a big reps guy. Then if RG3 is still in the team's plans for next season, why is he not getting reps in practice?

 

Nobody answered my question because they don't know why Kirk is relegated to holding a clipboard.  There is no long term plan or method to this madness.  Look at Jon Grudens run in TB, he qb carouseled with 3, 4 guys and never developed anybody long term. This winning now mentaility is biting us in the ass.

[Taylor703]

Personally, I don't think either is the answer. Kirk choked. I feel like he doesn't have it mentally, can't deal with the pressure. But, that being said, between the 2, Cousins would be an easier fix. Griffin has no NFL qb skills. The only way Griffin will be successful is if they switch to a read option style offense. Griffin DOES NOT want to run a read option offense. So he is worthless.

So now we're going with the angle that Robert has no NFL QB skills whatsoever? Got it.

[VRIEL1]

Why is this timmysmith guy still endorsing Cousins? Have you not seen the kid in shorts and a t-shirt on the sideline.  Have you not heard about how the coaching staff has basically given up on the guy because he gets too dejected after adversity.  

 

Give it a break.  Cousins is not the franchise QB and Gruden had a direct role in blurring his and Griffins futures. QB whisperer my ass, dude is a offensive coordinator who had the benefit of Mike Zimmer and Marvin Lewis to supply him with a defensive backbone of those "successful" cincy teams.  

 

Judging him as offensive coordinator=C+, B- and as a head coach=D-.  Dude's in over his head here in DC.

 

???

 

Cousins was benched because of poor decision making. I also think perhaps Gruden wanted to see what McCoy could do. I don't see why there is so much hate in regards to Cousins. RG3 drafted #2 and after 3 years still can't figure out a 3 step drop from a 7 step drop, can't get the foot work down, can't get beyond his 2nd read, and doesn't look comfortable in the pocket and has to run out of it long before he should to get sacked more often then not. RG3 a QB whom took 80+% of the snaps in practice for 2 years and majority of the snaps in live games for 2 years. If a QB takes about 40 snaps a game and there are 16 games a season then RG3 took roughly 1280+ live snaps as in game experience.

 

Cousins who has the foot work, gets to atleast his 3rd option before the OL breaks down, gets the ball out faster and knows a 3 step drop from a 7 step drop only has about 10% of the snaps from practice and 6 games under his belt roughly 240 in game live snaps as experience is not even remotely comparable or fair. Yet Cousins looks 95% better on the field vs. RG3.

 

I'll take Cousins 5 times out of 5 times as it's easier to help him settle down and make better decisions when under duress. To me Cousins reminds me of Romo. He too made bad decisions and still does under duress. Cousins also reminds me of Bret Favre whom was drafted by the Falcons and thought the same about him and chose to trade him to the Packers after 1 year. He sat on the bench for a year or two then came out playing lights out. The rest was history.

 

I'm not saying Cousins is the answer cause I really don't know I have not seen enough of him, but I have seen enough of RGme and see way too much work that needs to be accomplished. The only time RG3 was effective was when the Redskins used more of the "Read Option" which got him hurt. Gruden's system does not use over 50% "Read Option" as the Shanahan's chose to do I believe to atleast make RG3 worth the pick.

[MattFancy]

Nobody answered my question because they don't know why Kirk is relegated to holding a clipboard.  There is no long term plan or method to this madness.  Look at Jon Grudens run in TB, he qb carouseled with 3, 4 guys and never developed anybody long term. This winning now mentaility is biting us in the ass.

 

Jay is just like his brother in that he doesn't want to develop a QB. There were 2 young QBs ripe for the pickings here and neither one has been successful this year under Gruden. Cousins had his moments, but ultimately, you can't have a guy that's throwing multiple INTs a game. Now Jay could easily try and work with him, but instead went to Colt McCoy. Now Kirk has been inactive the past 5 weeks. Why? No idea. Either he or RG3 should be starting IMO. Personally I'd lean RG3, but either one of those is a better option for the future of this team than McCoy.

[codeorama]

So now we're going with the angle that Robert has no NFL QB skills whatsoever? Got it.

 

Isn't that what the experts are saying? (I mean pocket qb skills, which is what it take to be an NFL qb, notice Kaepernick is getting roasted as well)

Has no footwork, no pocket awareness, no accuracy?  What NFL qb skills does he have? Hell, he can't even slide.  

[SkinsHokieFan]

We all know how this team works.

 

Too much smoke. Gruden is gone. Raging fire behind the smoke 

[VRIEL1]

So now we're going with the angle that Robert has no NFL QB skills whatsoever? Got it.

 

Skills? No, he can run straight ahead real fast, he has a strong arm, and that right now is about it. However he does have a lot to work on that is essential to Quarterbacking ie; foot work, knowing how many steps to drop back, reading defenses, knowing where to go with the ball before the snap, decision making, etc. etc.

 

Funny the only valid complaint anyone has about Cousins is his interceptions. and I agree with that. But RG3 came back and did the same mistakes. So if Cousins sucks so does RG3. Except Cousins atleast has his footwork down, knows the step drop, can read defenses, and most of the time knows where to go with the ball and has a fast release.