ESPN980: Could Jay Really Be One-and-Done?

[Rskins06]

Firing a guy after a year is not the easy answer, it's the stupid answer. It's the thing that perennially dysfunctional organizations do . Firing the coach after one year just makes it that much harder to get quality talent in the organization. The only reason why people are seriously discussing it is because fanbases tend to take on the personality of their owners (they have to - since they have no power, cognitive dissonance drives them towards justifying their owner. It's called adaptive preferences).

Not on the Fire him after 1 year bandwagon. I believe he needs another year.

I doubt it's a true statement.  And what about the period where RG3 was stuck rehabbing his ankle

The statement I said was probably true was ME not realizing most people already believe RG3 would be traded this offseason. Not interested in hearing about his rehab of his ankle, that 5 weeks didn't set him back any. In order to have a step back, you actually had to have taken some steps forward and it has not been that way for 2 years for RG3.

[TimmySmith]

Not on the Fire him after 1 year bandwagon. I believe he needs another year.

This would be the reasonable approach.  The most important off-season for a coach is the one AFTER his 1st season.  Gruden has dealt with QB roulette and a rash of injuries with a very young team.  It would be foolish to start over after one season.

[Taylor703]

This would be the reasonable approach. The most important off-season for a coach is the one AFTER his 1st season. Gruden has dealt with QB roulette and a rash of injuries with a very young team. It would be foolish to start over after one season.

Gruden hasn't "dealt" with QB roulette, Gruden has created QB roulette.

[Peregrine]

I dont feel bad for Jay, much of this was his own making.  He had the decision coming on to keep Haslett or not, and he did.  That mostly reeked of arrogance, he thought it would be easy, he could just waltz in and dominate the league, so it didnt matter how bad his defense was.  I think leading up to the Minnesota game he started to realize just how bad a spot he was in, and how bad it was going to reflect on him.  Hes in over his head right now, and hes trying to tread water.  He MIGHT make it, but he first has to realize that more importantly than how good of a head coach you are, is who you surround yourself with.  Allen and Haslett will have to go for him to have a shot of success, and I think hes realized that now.

[Rskins06]

So in three seasons from now when Gruden is still failing, the team is still making the same mistakes and looks like an undisciplined mess what will be your excuse then?

Jay is basically coaching his schemes with Mike Shannahans players. I say give him this year, let him get HIS personnel he wants, bring in a DC and see if he can right the ship. A new regime will have the same challenges as Jay. After next year, then, you see if it is truly on Jay, if so, then you FIRE everyone in the building (including Bruce) and you start from scratch.

If you fire Jay this year, well, then you FIRE everyone in the building this year (including Bruce) and you rebuild starting now. I am not opposed to either, I would just prefer to give Jay another year.

[Skinsinparadise]

Jason Reid seems to cover all basis column to column, Jay isn't the issue, everyone else is,  The FO is behind Jay.  Well, the FO isn't behind Jay.  RG3 is gone to maybe not to maybe Jay's gone.  To now maybe Jay is part of the problem, too. 

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/jay-gruden-like-redskins-coaches-before-him-has-choices-but-no-good-ones/2014/12/08/714fa4ae-7f31-11e4-8882-03cf08410beb_story.html

 

 

Hired largely to fix Griffin, Gruden quickly determined the problems were too big to cure. And Gruden’s guidance hasn’t helped McCoy or Kirk Cousins much, either.

As the offseason draws near, it’s fair to question Gruden’s handling of a situation in which he has failed to develop three quarterbacks. That wasn’t how the script was supposed to go after Washington made a major investment in Gruden despite his relatively light NFL résumé, believing it had found a coach who could lead the struggling franchise back to prominence.

With four years remaining on his guaranteed five-year contract, Gruden might have time to prove he’s the right man for the job. But Gruden and his staff have appeared overmatched as the 3-10 team limps to the finish of another wasted season, and lack of stability in the coach’s office has been a major problem under Snyder.

Washington’s performance in its final three games could silence some of Gruden’s critics — or add to the growing list. Again, determining who starts at quarterback will be Gruden’s biggest decision.

In explaining that Griffin could make a comeback, Gruden didn’t seem overly enthusiastic. 

[Taylor703]

Jay is basically coaching his schemes with Mike Shannahans players. I say give him this year, let him get HIS personnel he wants, bring in a DC and see if he can right the ship. A new regime will have the same challenges as Jay. After next year, then, you see if it is truly on Jay, if so, then you FIRE everyone in the building (including Bruce) and you start from scratch.

If you fire Jay this year, well, then you FIRE everyone in the building this year (including Bruce) and you rebuild starting now. I am not opposed to either, I would just prefer to give Jay another year.

So we give Bruce Allen a full slate of draft picks and a bunch of salary cap money with the risk of his job being on the line? You really think this is a good idea? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I just would like to know if you think that's what we should do...

[Rskins06]

Gruden hasn't "dealt" with QB roulette, Gruden has created QB roulette.

Disagree, EVERYONE who claims to be an expert claimed how lucky the Redskins were to have all 3 QBs on this roster. NO ONE expected 1) RG to get hurt again 2) come back from injury and look horrible, 3) Kirk Cousins to play so poorly, etc. Gruden didn't create a roulette, the QBs poor play caused this themselves.

[Redskins3D]

So in three seasons from now when Gruden is still failing, the team is still making the same mistakes and looks like an undisciplined mess what will be your excuse then?

 

 

He said after one year, how does that become 3?

 

although, I'd apply your logic to Robert

 

 

Disagree, EVERYONE who claims to be an expert claimed how lucky the Redskins were to have all 3 QBs on this roster. NO ONE expected 1) RG to get hurt again 2) come back from injury and look horrible, 3) Kirk Cousins to play so poorly, etc. Gruden didn't create a roulette, the QBs poor play caused this themselves.

 

ehh...few people called #2, he didn't look good before he rolled his ankle. 

[HogsOfWar]

So in three seasons from now when Gruden is still failing, the team is still making the same mistakes and looks like an undisciplined mess what will be your excuse then?

 

No decent coach will work for the Redskins right now because they know Synder is a meddler. No decent coach will work for a team that fires head coaches after a year. So even if you happen to know for a 100% fact that Bill Belichick would win a Superbowl with this team, you'll never get that Superbowl winner until Snyder proves he doesn't suck as an owner.

[Rskins06]

So we give Bruce Allen a full slate of draft picks and a bunch of salary cap money with the risk of his job being on the line? You really think this is a good idea? I'm not trying to be a smart ass, I just would like to know if you think that's what we should do...

No, I don't take it as you being a smart ass at all. I do think you give Bruce and Jay this offseason to get the personnel Jay wants and who fit his scheme and you move on from there. This is really Bruce's first year as "GM" and his draft (the last 2 years) was not horrible. Due to injury, we have both Murphy and Breeland starting and honestly, they are contributing and will only get better. There were mistakes made (Orakpo franchise, no safety help, keeping Haslett, etc) but not all were bad. I don't think one year is a good predictor of future failures or success. If next year proves otherwise, then you fire everyone as there aren't any excuses.

[Taylor703]

No decent coach will work for the Redskins right now because they know Synder is a meddler. No decent coach will work for a team that fires head coaches after a year. So even if you happen to know for a 100% fact that Bill Belichick would win a Superbowl with this team, you'll never get that Superbowl winner until Snyder proves he doesn't suck as an owner.

There's 32 of these jobs available, that's it. Snyder is going to give you $20 mil. Guaranteed and you think coaches are going to turn it down? Yeah, okay.

[Rskins06]

ehh...few people called #2, he didn't look good before he rolled his ankle.

Touche!

[HogsOfWar]

There's 32 of these jobs available, that's it. Snyder is going to give you $20 mil. Guaranteed and you think coaches are going to turn it down? Yeah, okay.

 

Well we have two theories at work here:

 

RG3 fan theory: working for Snyder is a dream job that any coach would love to have. So let's fire Gruden and get that Superbowl winner.

 

Snyder hater theory: working for Snyder is fools gold that the good coaches won't touch. 

 

Apparently you subscribe to the RG3 fan theory.

[MattFancy]

Well we have two theories at work here:

 

RG3 fan theory: working for Snyder is a dream job that any coach would love to have. So let's fire Gruden and get that Superbowl winner.

 

Snyder hater theory: working for Snyder is fools gold that the good coaches won't touch. 

 

Apparently you subscribe to the RG3 fan theory.

 

This is funny

[GoldSkinner]

There's 32 of these jobs available, that's it. Snyder is going to give you $20 mil. Guaranteed and you think coaches are going to turn it down? Yeah, okay.

 

Coaches won't turn down that money, but they'll turn down the job while pretending otherwise, masquerading as head coaches on the sidelines.

[Taylor703]

Well we have two theories at work here:

RG3 fan theory: working for Snyder is a dream job that any coach would love to have. So let's fire Gruden and get that Superbowl winner.

Snyder hater theory: working for Snyder is fools gold that the good coaches won't touch.

Apparently you subscribe to the RG3 fan theory.

If this is all you can keep coming up with than there's no point in even talking to you.

[HogsOfWar]

If this is all you can keep coming up with than there's no point in even talking to you.

 

So you really think the top coaching prospects want to work for Snyder? I'm just curious to know where you are coming from.

[Taylor703]

Coaches won't turn down that money, but they'll turn down the job while pretending otherwise masquerading as head coaches on the sidelines.

The evidence is right in front of you. This dysfunction has been going on for 15 years and coaches keep signing on the dotted line. It's not going to change.

So you really think the top coaching prospects want to work for Snyder? I'm just curious to know where you are coming from.

Want to work for him? No. Willing to take his money? Yes.

Snyder has had Marty Schottenheimer, Joe Gibbs and Mike Shanahan take his money and you think he can't get a good coach?

[HogsOfWar]

The evidence is right in front of you. This dysfunction has been going on for 15 years and coaches keep signing on the dotted line. It's not going to change.

Want to work for him? No. Willing to take his money? Yes.

 

Well, I suppose at this point it's largely an empirical issue, but despite Cowen's law that there is a literature on everything, I doubt that there is any research on whether 1) Snyder is a bad owner, and 2) whether bad owners have trouble recruiting candidates, even given a willingness to pay more money. (That would be a great topic for the analytics community though ...)

 

But given your premise that Snyder's money makes up for his other faults, by all means, fire Gruden.

[Braxford]

I think Gruden has the attitude needed to be a decent head coach but the coaching part. Not so sure, but its only been one year. Still Allen has got to go and so does the staff that he brought in. That includes Gruden. Just cut bait. Sorry for Jay, but a fresh start is needed to get over a season of poor performance, coaching, and morale.  If I had to choose Gruden or Allen though I would say Allen has to go. He has built this thing and has had more effect on its direction for a longer period of time. 

 

The windows must be open, air out the house, throw out the trash and start some spring cleaning. Bring in a quality GM or consultant to hire the GM.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The next time I'm going to truly care what type of coaching or player personnel move is made is when it's done after a front office clean-up/rebuild. Until then, it's just another dart being thrown at the proverbial dart board with a desperate hope to hit on the winning formula. 

 

If we go through a true front office restructuring led by a competent individual, then I will once again be excited and interested in the things that happen at the lower levels of the organization. 

[Redskins3D]

There's 32 of these jobs available, that's it. Snyder is going to give you $20 mil. Guaranteed and you think coaches are going to turn it down? Yeah, okay.

 

Yea, we'll get someone.  But the real Gruden turned it down, so have others. We want someone good. And they will wait it out before taking a job with an owner thats going to tell you what QB to play and then fire you after the first year.

[VRIEL1]

So Snyder is supposed to shell out $15 mill for Gruden to sit at home? I don't think so. Snyder needs to learn to stop playing games with his toy. Allow the coaches to coach, allow the scouts to scout, allow football minds to make the decisions and stop dabbling into football decisions. We all know RGme was all on him and possibly Allen. Time to move on from that debacle.

 

What I'd do:

 

1- Fire Haslett, bring in best DC available at whatever price it takes.

2- What is Russ Grimm doing? not coaching! call him up see if he's willing to come fix this OL.

3- Trade or release RGme. Too much work not enough time.

4- Keep McCoy/Cousins for another year.

5- Draft big OL, and DB's.

6- talk to Jay Gruden and see if his brother can come in and coach up the QB's in the offseason.

 

We know the scheme works as it worked for Gruden in Cinci. Clearly the OL is getting run over, too small, and the team is not utilizing the zone blocking as much. Gruden's scheme seemed to utilize the man to man blocking. Get bigger OL. Try to get Russ Grimm in here to get OL in check. Make him Assistant HC as he was in Arizona. Build up the OL then see if McCoy/Cousins is worth keeping or go draft a QB who will have a decent OL to stand behind. Haslett = not good everywhere he went except semi pro. no wonder. it shows.

[TimmySmith]

Gruden hasn't "dealt" with QB roulette, Gruden has created QB roulette.

Nope, he hasn't.  QB roulette started when RG3 got hurt (again), which set in place a series of events that were designed to get RG3 back into the starting lineup.  He got back and was in the process of being killed when Gruden had to remove him for his own safety.  I will admit Gruden did make a major miscalculation in thinking that McCoy was better than Cousins.