ESPN980: Could Jay Really Be One-and-Done?

[Taylor703]

How many times has McCoy been sacked in the past two games? Does this allude to the fact that he has no pocket awareness as well? I'll give you footwork but accuracy has never been a major issue for him. Even the numbers back me up on that one. It's hard to learn pocket awareness when there's no pocket to play within.

Skills? No, he can run straight ahead real fast, he has a strong arm, and that right now is about it. However he does have a lot to work on that is essential to Quarterbacking ie; foot work, knowing how many steps to drop back, reading defenses, knowing where to go with the ball before the snap, decision making, etc. etc.

Funny the only valid complaint anyone has about Cousins is his interceptions. and I agree with that. But RG3 came back and did the same mistakes. So if Cousins sucks so does RG3. Except Cousins atleast has his footwork down, knows the step drop, can read defenses, and most of the time knows where to go with the ball and has a fast release.

Cousins obviously can not read a defense or he wouldn't be on pace to throw 30 interceptions.

[VRIEL1]

Jay is just like his brother in that he doesn't want to develop a QB. There were 2 young QBs ripe for the pickings here and neither one has been successful this year under Gruden. Cousins had his moments, but ultimately, you can't have a guy that's throwing multiple INTs a game. Now Jay could easily try and work with him, but instead went to Colt McCoy. Now Kirk has been inactive the past 5 weeks. Why? No idea. Either he or RG3 should be starting IMO. Personally I'd lean RG3, but either one of those is a better option for the future of this team than McCoy.

 

Whats wrong with McCoy? he was only drafted like 2 years before the other two? so he's only 2 years older.

[MattFancy]

Whats wrong with McCoy? he was only drafted like 2 years before the other two? so he's only 2 years older.

 

McCoy is 28. Cousins is 26. Griffin is 24.

[Taylor703]

Whats wrong with McCoy? he was only drafted like 2 years before the other two? so he's only 2 years older.

McCoy is not good, that's what's wrong. At least the other two have some chance of developing into a good player. Colt on the other hand, does not.

[GoldSkinner]

I'm not liking this qb carousel. What's the point in keeping Gruden if he won't actually take the time to develop the young players?

 

Probably because he didn't think that the star QB was a remedial pocket passer even by college standards. Gruden thought he was hired to teach calculus to students who've previously taken pre-cal and are ready for the next step, instead he's teaching calc to a class with a rudimentary grasp of Algebra.

[VRIEL1]

How many times has McCoy been sacked in the past two games? Does this allude to the fact that he has no pocket awareness as well? I'll give you footwork but accuracy has never been a major issue for him. Even the numbers back me up on that one. It's hard to learn pocket awareness when there's no pocket to play within.

Cousins obviously can not read a defense or he wouldn't be on pace to throw 30 interceptions.

 

I'm admitting the OL is the issue. However I feel it's unfair to call Cousins a bust when he has not even sniffed the amount of snaps in practice or during live games as RG3. If Cousins was still making the same mistakes after 3 years of actually playing then I'd agree with you.

 

You stated in another post you would simply like to see this all blown up. Ok, blow it up and get rid of all 3 QB's and do what? draft another? I'm game. But I simply would rather do what many here on this site has been arguing for and that is the team to build it's OL then go get their QB. So what does the team do in the mean time? I would not keep RG3 with all his deficiencies. I'd rather keep McCoy and Cousins whom make less mistakes.

[nfl guru]

???

 

Cousins was benched because of poor decision making. I also think perhaps Gruden wanted to see what McCoy could do. I don't see why there is so much hate in regards to Cousins. RG3 drafted #2 and after 3 years still can't figure out a 3 step drop from a 7 step drop, can't get the foot work down, can't get beyond his 2nd read, and doesn't look comfortable in the pocket and has to run out of it long before he should to get sacked more often then not. RG3 a QB whom took 80+% of the snaps in practice for 2 years and majority of the snaps in live games for 2 years. If a QB takes about 40 snaps a game and there are 16 games a season then RG3 took roughly 1280+ live snaps as in game experience.

 

Cousins who has the foot work, gets to atleast his 3rd option before the OL breaks down, gets the ball out faster and knows a 3 step drop from a 7 step drop only has about 10% of the snaps from practice and 6 games under his belt roughly 240 in game live snaps as experience is not even remotely comparable or fair. Yet Cousins looks 95% better on the field vs. RG3.

 

I'll take Cousins 5 times out of 5 times as it's easier to help him settle down and make better decisions when under duress. To me Cousins reminds me of romoSUCKS. He too made bad decisions and still does under duress. Cousins also reminds me of Bret Favre whom was drafted by the Falcons and thought the same about him and chose to trade him to the Packers after 1 year. He sat on the bench for a year or two then came out playing lights out. The rest was history.

 

I'm not saying Cousins is the answer cause I really don't know I have not seen enough of him, but I have seen enough of RGme and see way too much work that needs to be accomplished. The only time RG3 was effective was when the Redskins used more of the "Read Option" which got him hurt. Gruden's system does not use over 50% "Read Option" as the Shanahan's chose to do I believe to atleast make RG3 worth the pick.

 

If you haven't seen enough of Cousins, then why isn't he starting?????? Either you've seen enough and moved on or he's still the future QB and needs the reps.  Excuses, excuses, excuses.  You essentially wrote a essay ripping Griffin when he's not even in the discussion anymore.  

 

Cousins who has the foot work, gets to atleast his 3rd option before the OL breaks down, gets the ball out faster and knows a 3 step drop from a 7 step drop only has about 10% of the snaps from practice and 6 games under his belt roughly 240 in game live snaps as experience is not even remotely comparable or fair. Yet Cousins looks 95% better on the field vs. RG3.

 

Great attributes amirite? Then why the hell is dude in shirts and a t-shirt.  Not even the #2 anymore

 

I swear that Cooley report made everybody a qualified QB expert all of a sudden smh

[VRIEL1]

I'm not liking this qb carousel. What's the point in keeping Gruden if he won't actually take the time to develop the young players?

 

I agree except the real reason to keep him is cause he's costing the team $15 mill over the next 4 years. He signed a 5 year $20 mill contract that just does not go away if Snyder fires him. So Snyder is going to pay $4 mill a year and still go out and pick up a top notch HC and pay him $4 or $5 mill also? no Snyder is too cheap to do that.

[Taylor703]

I'm admitting the OL is the issue. However I feel it's unfair to call Cousins a bust when he has not even sniffed the amount of snaps in practice or during live games as RG3. If Cousins was still making the same mistakes after 3 years of actually playing then I'd agree with you.

You stated in another post you would simply like to see this all blown up. Ok, blow it up and get rid of all 3 QB's and do what? draft another? I'm game. But I simply would rather do what many here on this site has been arguing for and that is the team to build it's OL then go get their QB. So what does the team do in the mean time? I would not keep RG3 with all his deficiencies. I'd rather keep McCoy and Cousins whom make less mistakes.

No. You wait until you have a solid foundation in place before drafting another QB. Bring in Shaun Hill or Matt Schaub even. Sure they suck, but they will almost certainly guarantee us a top 5 pick and we won't have to deal with all the drama.

And I have no interest in keeping Cousins around. He should be in Cleveland. That fourth round pick they were offering certainly looks good now.

[VRIEL1]

If you haven't seen enough of Cousins, then why isn't he starting?????? Either you've seen enough and moved on or he's still the future QB and needs the reps.  Excuses, excuses, excuses.  You essentially wrote a essay ripping Griffin when he's not even in the discussion anymore.  

 

Cousins who has the foot work, gets to atleast his 3rd option before the OL breaks down, gets the ball out faster and knows a 3 step drop from a 7 step drop only has about 10% of the snaps from practice and 6 games under his belt roughly 240 in game live snaps as experience is not even remotely comparable or fair. Yet Cousins looks 95% better on the field vs. RG3.

 

Great attributes amirite? Then why the hell is dude in shirts and a t-shirt.  Not even the #2 anymore

 

I swear that Cooley report made everybody a qualified QB expert all of a sudden smh

 

Good question. I'm not the coach. and I'm guessing your response will would be "that's right" or "thank god." I would be splitting each game up for both McCoy and Cousins to give them experience for next year. I'm not saying they are our franchise QB. I know RGme is not from what I see and the team is not going to use the scheme that best fits his talents. Plus RGme as told the coaches after his knee injury that he does not want to run the Read Option, he wants to be a pocket passer. which is not his talent.

 

All I'm saying is if I'm looking for a franchise QB, I'm not looking until after I get the OL fixed and doing it's job. So who runs the offense until that happens? McCoy or Cousins is all I'm saying. Now lets say the team fixes all the OL issues next year and McCoy or Cousins looks and plays like a franchise player then I'm keeping them. If they don't play well even after I fixed the OL issues then in 2016 draft pick up another QB that hopefully will turn out well.

No. You wait until you have a solid foundation in place before drafting another QB. Bring in Shaun Hill or Matt Schaub even. Sure they suck, but they will almost certainly guarantee us a top 5 pick and we won't have to deal with all the drama.

And I have no interest in keeping Cousins around. He should be in Cleveland. That fourth round pick they were offering certainly looks good now.

 

I dont' now how you get that after 6 games. but your opinion. No I don't like Cousins throwing INT's. however it's easier and quicker to get him to start making better decisions vs. fixing all the problems RGme has. But again..... you want to blow this up..... I'd even let you do that. but we need more then 1 QB on the roster so who else you bringing in?

[Taylor703]

Well VRme, I'd go with an Undrafted free agent QB behind Hill or Schaub.

[TimmySmith]

No. You wait until you have a solid foundation in place before drafting another QB. Bring in Shaun Hill or Matt Schaub even. Sure they suck, but they will almost certainly guarantee us a top 5 pick and we won't have to deal with all the drama.

 

So you would rather sign a retread FA to get a top 5 pick rather than test out a guy on the roster?  That is just about the dumbest comment I have read at this site.

[Cooleyfan1993]

So you would rather sign a retread FA to get a top 5 pick rather than test out a guy on the roster?  That is just about the dumbest comment I have read at this site.

then apparently you havent read any of my posts

[Taylor703]

So you would rather sign a retread FA to get a top 5 pick rather than test out a guy on the roster? That is just about the dumbest comment I have read at this site.

How many more times are we going to "test" out Cousins? The dude sucks. He's awful. He's so bad that he's now inactive. At least if you bring in a Shaun Hill-type than your roster has some chance of developing.

[HogsOfWar]

Normally you draft a QB even if the rest of your team needs work. Some people seem to think that you build the rest of the team and then draft a QB, but the best QB prospects are typically taken at the top half of the first round, often #1. It's a lot harder to find a franchise QB in the bottom half of the first round. And we all know how expensive it is to trade up, particularly when (1) your owner is impulsive, and (2) your coach will get fired after one year if things don't immediately improve. The Redskins pay the "Yankees tax" when it comes to trading up in the draft.

[nfl guru]

timmysmith, you wanna try and explain why Cousins is third on the depth chart when he's the future?? I guess I'm too slow to see how their plan shapes up.

 

 

Normally you draft a QB even if the rest of your team needs work. Some people seem to think that you build the rest of the team and then draft a QB, but the best QB prospects are typically taken at the top half of the first round, often #1. It's a lot harder to find a franchise QB in the bottom half of the draft. And we all know how expensive it is to trade up, particularly when (A) your owner is impulsive, and (  your coach will get fired after one year if things don't immediately improve.

 

 

I feel like its spring 2012 all over again.  This is the same logic that pushed us to go all in for a franchise QB.  Then when he fails, its build the team first.  Then when the team sucks in a few years, we'll be right back to "draft a qb that masks our weaknesses, I mean look at Rodgers and Brees". 

 

I agree with the bolded statement.  It's case by case with no clear defined parameters on when to get a qb.  If you think hes the guy, then you do everything you can to acquire him.  If not, then pass and strengthen another position instead.

[Taylor703]

Normally you draft a QB even if the rest of your team needs work. Some people seem to think that you build the rest of the team and then draft a QB, but the best QB prospects are typically taken at the top half of the first round, often #1. It's a lot harder to find a franchise QB in the bottom half of the first round. And we all know how expensive it is to trade up, particularly when (1) your owner is impulsive, and (2) your coach will get fired after one year if things don't immediately improve. The Redskins pay the "Yankees tax" when it comes to trading up in the draft.

Brady-6th round

Brees-2nd round

Rodgers-24th pick

Romo-Undrafted

[HogsOfWar]

Brady-6th round

Brees-2nd round

Rodgers-24th pick

romoSUCKS-Undrafted

 

There are plenty of exceptions but the plural of anecdote is not "data"

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/nfl-draft-round-round-quarterback-data

[VRIEL1]

Tough luck, but that's what he walked into. QB is properly the worst position to be switching back and forth on. I know these guys might not have been what he planned for his scheme but that's what he has for now. Not that I think about it, why'd we bring him in if we knew, and he knew our Qbs weren't a good fit for his scheme? I'm all confused now.

 

Personally I'm just guessing if you can get your feet in the door anywhere HCing then your always going to be looked at even down the road. I think Gruden just wanted to get his feet in the coaching door. Now, perhaps from his perspective he thought he would be able to coach anyone up to do the job, but found out after the fact that RG3 has a lot to learn and not putting what he's practicing on the field. Which is kinda what I thought he said in one interview. Another one who had the same problem was Jason Campbell. But I'm sure there are plenty here who still think he's a franchise QB also.

Normally you draft a QB even if the rest of your team needs work. Some people seem to think that you build the rest of the team and then draft a QB, but the best QB prospects are typically taken at the top half of the first round, often #1. It's a lot harder to find a franchise QB in the bottom half of the first round. And we all know how expensive it is to trade up, particularly when (1) your owner is impulsive, and (2) your coach will get fired after one year if things don't immediately improve. The Redskins pay the "Yankees tax" when it comes to trading up in the draft.

 

Ok, so my proposal was to draft OL and DB's in the 2015 draft. Use the whole 2015 year and fix the OL while using a second rate QB. Then in 2016 I'd draft a top notch QB to take over when the OL is already built. I would never draft purposefully a late round QB. Unless  your looking for someone to develop over time and or be the back up........ie; Cousins.

[Rskins06]

How many more times are we going to "test" out Cousins? The dude sucks. He's awful. He's so bad that he's now inactive. At least if you bring in a Shaun Hill-type than your roster has some chance of developing.

So Cousins or McCoy gives this team the best chance to be competitive (yes, over hill, Schaub, Sanchez, etc) and you would rather get a worse QB just to get a top 5 pick? Hell, if that's the case, we already have that QB on the roster....RG3!

[worldpost]

ANYONE considering firing Gruden after one year.. deserves another 20 years of misery...  

 

No coach unless taken out on a straight jacket deserves only one year.. It's ludicrous and reckless. 

[Taylor703]

So Cousins or McCoy gives this team the best chance to be competitive (yes, over hill, Schaub, Sanchez, etc) and you would rather get a worse QB just to get a top 5 pick? Hell, if that's the case, we already have that QB on the roster....RG3!

Shaun hill is better than Kirk Cousins.

[Rskins06]

Shaun hill is better than Kirk Cousins.

Shaun Hill is no different than McCoy, he is a journeyman QB who is only starting due to Bradford injury and Austin ineffectiveness. I would take Cousins over Hill every day of the week! I would even take McCoy over Hill. Of course, I would take all 3 over RG3 though.

[War Paint]

ANYONE considering firing Gruden after one year.. deserves another 20 years of misery...  

 

No coach unless taken out on a straight jacket deserves only one year.. It's ludicrous and reckless. 

ANYONE who feels we need to keep a terrible coach for the illusion of stability deserves the same.  I'm sure the Browns don't regret canning their 1st year HC last offseason.

 

I asked this question before and got only one answer from Gruden supporters.  Can you show me anything with this team right now that shows we are heading in the right direction?  Anything?  The only answer I got was "Gruden is standing up to the front office".   Please, I'm begging you Gruden supporters.  What has he done here that has shown he is righting the ship?  Anyone?

[HogsOfWar]

I agree with the bolded statement.  It's case by case with no clear defined parameters on when to get a qb.  If you think hes the guy, then you do everything you can to acquire him.  If not, then pass and strengthen another position instead.

 

I disagree in part. It is a case by case basis and this year's quarterback draft looks a little thin. But even if you do see the guy, you don't sell the farm to get him. Even the best prospects (the guys chosen at #1 or #2) are a coin flip.