Is it possible we could be giving up the #1 pick?

[EvilMonkeyBoy]

We could have had Russell Wilson in the 2nd or 3rd round.  An infinitely better QB than RG.  And kept all those picks to improve our piss poor team.

 

Wilson is 100x more mature and instinctive than RG.  Like night and day.  What we have is an egotistical, immature, prima donna with little very little pocket QB talent.  Just a slower, more injury prone version of Michael Vick, without the dogs

Now this my friends is a troll.

[Burgold]

It certainly would be a kick in the teeth.  No justification for how bad this team has performed this year especially after returning pretty much all the starters.  Continuity, would at least suggest we wouldn't be that miserable especially on D where a key ingredient is being on the same page as your team mates.

[RandyHolt]

Many will be quick to say the season is over, and likely said the same thing last year. A few times. And were wrong every time. Wanna cracker? 

 

Fact is 8-8 may get a team into the playoffs. The competition in our division seems somewhat of a joke.  We have a big game tonight and this is the top topic

 

It ain't over quite yet from where I type, despite all the negativity the board can muster. If we win tonight, we are 2 games out of a playoff spot.  SF seems to be showing some weakness. The cushion is in the house. Is this all unthinkable to occur?

 

Quite frankly, the negative nancy threads like this one are getting old.

[justice98]

Many will be quick to say the season is over, and likely said the same thing last year. A few times. And were wrong every time. Wanna cracker? 

 

Fact is 8-8 may get a team into the playoffs. The competition in our division seems somewhat of a joke.  We have a big game tonight and this is the top topic

 

It ain't over quite yet from where I type, despite all the negativity the board can muster. If we win tonight, we are 2 games out of a playoff spot.  SF seems to be showing some weakness. The cushion is in the house. Is this all unthinkable to occur?

 

Quite frankly, the negative nancy threads like this one are getting old.

 

Being the only team winless in the division, we've got a lot of nerve calling the rest of them jokes.  

[RandyHolt]

Being the only team winless in the division, we've got a lot of nerve calling the rest of them jokes.  

Keyboard warrior I am!  But I have heard many people imply our division is a joke. While it seems to be getting better, we ourselves have no where to go but up. I realize we'd likely need to win the division outright.

 

Where you one that said it was over last year, by chance?  3-6, entering the bye?

[Burgold]

Many will be quick to say the season is over, and likely said the same thing last year. A few times. And were wrong every time. Wanna cracker? 

 

Fact is 8-8 may get a team into the playoffs. The competition in our division seems somewhat of a joke.  We have a big game tonight and this is the top topic

 

It ain't over quite yet from where I type, despite all the negativity the board can muster. If we win tonight, we are 2 games out of a playoff spot.  SF seems to be showing some weakness. The cushion is in the house. Is this all unthinkable to occur?

 

Quite frankly, the negative nancy threads like this one are getting old.

Maybe my expectations were too high at the start of the year.  I've fallen and have found it difficult to get up.  It's not that this team has lost, but that they've been so horribly incompetent and the rot has hit all three phases.  I haven't seen high school special teams perform as badly as we do.  Our D is dismal.  Our O, well RGIII is having his rookie year, Morris is still fantastic, but I've just lost it.

 

I'm not sure how or if I can regain faith in this team this season.  I'm sure I will back next year and within each game I'm cheering and hoping, but right now, we're just a very bad team.

[drowland]

Keyboard warrior I am!  But I have heard many people imply our division is a joke. While it seems to be getting better, we ourselves have no where to go but up. I realize we'd likely need to win the division outright.

 

Where you one that said it was over last year, by chance?  3-6, entering the bye?

 

We would need to win the divison outright.  With a win tonight still 3 games out of the wildcard spot and really 2.5 games out of the divison race since we were swept by the Eagles.  The difference between last year and this year is division wins.  Skins were 5-1 last year, 3-3 at best this year if they can win out.  Currently have a 1-6 NFC record.  The Skins don't have the strength of the tie-breakers in their favor. 

 

If the Skins were going to make a run at the division then it needed to start last week in Philly.  Instead they came out and scored 0 points for the first 3 quarters of the game.  The Skins could get hot and make it interesting, but they've dug themselves too big a hole and would need to rely on the Eagles and Cowboys imploding over the last 5 weeks of the season. 

[texasthunder]

Well we still wouldn't have a franchise QB with pretty much none in sight. Bridgewater is nowhere near the talent Griffin is and Haslett would ruin Clowney. We made the correct decision and we all knew there was a chance the picks the rams got in return would be relatively high as Griffin developed. They can have the picks, I'd much rather have Griffin and our cap space back.

Now this is the correct answer.

 

IF we had not made the trade, we would have been stuck this year and next year without a qb to build the team around.

And who knows who might be available in 2015.

 

I for one could care less who the Rams draft. 

[Boss_Hogg]

We could have had Russell Wilson in the 2nd or 3rd round.  An infinitely better QB than RG.  And kept all those picks to improve our piss poor team.

 

Wilson is 100x more mature and instinctive than RG.  Like night and day.  What we have is an egotistical, immature, prima donna with little very little pocket QB talent.  Just a slower, more injury prone version of Michael Vick, without the dogs

 

Slow your troll man.

 

Wilson is a fantastic QB but he also has a fantastic supporting cast and homefield advantage. 

 

I'll put it this way, Wilson and Luck are great QBs, but they have all the advantages (silver spoons). RGIII is a good QB but he does'nt have the same advantages as the aforementioned QBs. RGII is your blue collar QB.

[Audible_Red40]

Why do they call it Ovaltine? The mug is round. The jar is round. They should call it Roundtine

[justice98]

For a team that needs players all over the roster, and starting caliber or difference making players at that, watching the #1 overall pick go to somebody else would truly suck. Even if we didn't want Bridgewater or Clowney or whoever else vaults up the draft by next April, the haul back for trading out would be nice to have.  I think we'll be just good enough to avoid being that bad though.  But we'll see.  

Slow your troll man.

 

Wilson is a fantastic QB but he also has a fantastic supporting cast and homefield advantage. 

 

I'll put it this way, Wilson and Luck are great QBs, but they have all the advantages (silver spoons). RGIII is a good QB but he does'nt have the same advantages as the aforementioned QBs. RGII is your blue collar QB.

 

Is Seattle's and Indy's offensive talent better than the Redskins, in your opinion?  

[Mursilis]

Besides the Rams are a ways off. Their team as a whole is still ****ty and now they have Bradford coming off of a torn ACL

 

If the 5-6 Rams, who have gone 2-2 since losing their starting QB, are a ways off, what are the 3-7 Redskins?  A longer ways off? 

[justice98]

If the 5-6 Rams, who have gone 2-2 since losing their starting QB, are a ways off, what are the 3-7 Redskins?  A longer ways off? 

 

Right, 5-6 with the youngest team in the league.  A young team growing and maturing together.  We'll see what they grow and mature into, but so far, so good.

[theTruthTeller]

Slow your troll man.

 

Wilson is a fantastic QB but he also has a fantastic supporting cast and homefield advantage. 

 

I'll put it this way, Wilson and Luck are great QBs, but they have all the advantages (silver spoons). RGIII is a good QB but he does'nt have the same advantages as the aforementioned QBs. RGII is your blue collar QB.

While I remain a huge RG3 fan, and think we just need to put this season behind us, I don't think it's totally fair to argue about a superior supporting cast in comparing the relative success of RG3 and Wilson, because the trade itself affected the available supporting cast  (this post isn't directed to your post because you were commenting on whether Wilson was better than RG3 straight up, not the trade itself - it's just an argument I see a lot around here).  If the Skins had gone into the draft thinking that they would not go after a premiere QB in 2012, they would have had the opportunity to still get Cousins in the fourth round, but would currently have two first round and a second round choice on their roster right now, and still have their first round pick for next year (or they may have picked up Tannehill in the first).  That's a lot of supporting cast.

 

In other words, trading away draft choices, even if it results in getting a premiere player, makes it so much harder to get a good supporting cast.  As I've noted before, the two year contract to Josh Morgan is almost twice the compensation that Dallas pays for Dez Bryant, Terrance Williams, Dwayne Harris and Cole Beasley COMBINED.  Its just hard to compete by substituting free agents for draft choices.  I understand that a lot more was expected from Morgan, but no one expected him to be a Dez Bryant.  And I think its fair to say that either Beasley or Harris by themselves are more valuable to Dallas than Morgan is to Washington. Even a mid-level FA acquisition is expensive relative to a draft choice, and as Morgan proves, its no sure thing.

[theTruthTeller]

Right, 5-6 with the youngest team in the league.  A young team growing and maturing together.  We'll see what they grow and mature into, but so far, so good.

Another good point - there are a lot of comments on how Seattle (or SF, or KC) went from being a bad team to a good team in just one year.  BS!  If you look at their drafts, they have given up very few choices and have made some great mid-round picks.  All of a sudden those draft choices emerge as a team and it looks like an instant turnaround, but its built on a foundation that took years.

[rumplestilskin]

While I remain a huge RG3 fan, and think we just need to put this season behind us, I don't think it's totally fair to argue about a superior supporting cast in comparing the relative success of RG3 and Wilson, because the trade itself affected the available supporting cast  (this post isn't directed to your post because you were commenting on whether Wilson was better than RG3 straight up, not the trade itself - it's just an argument I see a lot around here).  If the Skins had gone into the draft thinking that they would not go after a premiere QB in 2012, they would have had the opportunity to still get Cousins in the fourth round, but would currently have two first round and a second round choice on their roster right now, and still have their first round pick for next year (or they may have picked up Tannehill in the first).  That's a lot of supporting cast.

 

In other words, trading away draft choices, even if it results in getting a premiere player, makes it so much harder to get a good supporting cast.  As I've noted before, the two year contract to Josh Morgan is almost twice the compensation that Dallas pays for Dez Bryant, Terrance Williams, Dwayne Harris and Cole Beasley COMBINED.  Its just hard to compete by substituting free agents for draft choices.  I understand that a lot more was expected from Morgan, but no one expected him to be a Dez Bryant.  And I think its fair to say that either Beasley or Harris by themselves are more valuable to Dallas than Morgan is to Washington. Even a mid-level FA acquisition is expensive relative to a draft choice, and as Morgan proves, its no sure thing.

 

 

 

 

 

I see your point but first round draft choices don't always pay off. The odds are higher but its still a crapshoot. IMHO I think RG3 is worth the gamble of the 2 first rounders. I would have to see more of Cousins to even put him in the conversation however his acquisition might someday help us recoup some of the picks we used for RG3. Its all a wait and see scenario anyways.

[justice98]

While I remain a huge RG3 fan, and think we just need to put this season behind us, I don't think it's totally fair to argue about a superior supporting cast in comparing the relative success of RG3 and Wilson, because the trade itself affected the available supporting cast  (this post isn't directed to your post because you were commenting on whether Wilson was better than RG3 straight up, not the trade itself - it's just an argument I see a lot around here).  If the Skins had gone into the draft thinking that they would not go after a premiere QB in 2012, they would have had the opportunity to still get Cousins in the fourth round, but would currently have two first round and a second round choice on their roster right now, and still have their first round pick for next year (or they may have picked up Tannehill in the first).  That's a lot of supporting cast.

 

In other words, trading away draft choices, even if it results in getting a premiere player, makes it so much harder to get a good supporting cast.  As I've noted before, the two year contract to Josh Morgan is almost twice the compensation that Dallas pays for Dez Bryant, Terrance Williams, Dwayne Harris and Cole Beasley COMBINED.  Its just hard to compete by substituting free agents for draft choices.  I understand that a lot more was expected from Morgan, but no one expected him to be a Dez Bryant.  And I think its fair to say that either Beasley or Harris by themselves are more valuable to Dallas than Morgan is to Washington. Even a mid-level FA acquisition is expensive relative to a draft choice, and as Morgan proves, its no sure thing.

 

It's a very interesting discussion.  Cousins with three years of first round draft choices and last year's 2nd.  As you say, that's a lot of supporting cast.  That's another Trent Williams type on the OL, another Ryan Kerrigan and Amerson on defense, or whatever good players emerged from the first and second rounds around the league. The RG3 upside is and was enticing though.  But it's not without a gamble and/or tradeoff.  His level of play has to be elevated like it was last year to compensate until we can make up for the roster limitations.

[Boss_Hogg]

 

Is Seattle's and Indy's offensive talent better than the Redskins, in your opinion?  

 

I think (when healthy) the collective talent on the Colts and Hawks is better.  The Skins have the better LT, RB (very close with Beast Mode) and WR. However collectively the rest of the Skins offenseive talent is trash.

 

It also doesn't help the Skins have the 31st ranked defense in the league. IMO defense is a supporting cast, just like special teams.

 

 

While I remain a huge RG3 fan, and think we just need to put this season behind us, I don't think it's totally fair to argue about a superior supporting cast in comparing the relative success of RG3 and Wilson, because the trade itself affected the available supporting cast  (this post isn't directed to your post because you were commenting on whether Wilson was better than RG3 straight up, not the trade itself - it's just an argument I see a lot around here).  If the Skins had gone into the draft thinking that they would not go after a premiere QB in 2012, they would have had the opportunity to still get Cousins in the fourth round, but would currently have two first round and a second round choice on their roster right now, and still have their first round pick for next year (or they may have picked up Tannehill in the first).  That's a lot of supporting cast.

 

In other words, trading away draft choices, even if it results in getting a premiere player, makes it so much harder to get a good supporting cast.  As I've noted before, the two year contract to Josh Morgan is almost twice the compensation that Dallas pays for Dez Bryant, Terrance Williams, Dwayne Harris and Cole Beasley COMBINED.  Its just hard to compete by substituting free agents for draft choices.  I understand that a lot more was expected from Morgan, but no one expected him to be a Dez Bryant.  And I think its fair to say that either Beasley or Harris by themselves are more valuable to Dallas than Morgan is to Washington. Even a mid-level FA acquisition is expensive relative to a draft choice, and as Morgan proves, its no sure thing.

 

Good post.

[theTruthTeller]

It's a very interesting discussion.  Cousins with three years of first round draft choices and last year's 2nd.  As you say, that's a lot of supporting cast.  That's another Trent Williams type on the OL, another Ryan Kerrigan and Amerson on defense, or whatever good players emerged from the first and second rounds around the league. The RG3 upside is and was enticing though.  But it's not without a gamble and/or tradeoff.  His level of play has to be elevated like it was last year to compensate until we can make up for the roster limitations.

Yeah, I definitely don't want to come across as busting on RG3.  He definitely made up for not have a couple of starting quality OLs last year.  When I was watching the Dallas game (this year), you could see their DL pushing the Skins' OL back and then stopping because they knew RG3 would be running by them if they were overaggressive.  He's still a force, even injured.

[War Paint]

We could have had Russell Wilson in the 2nd or 3rd round.  An infinitely better QB than RG.  And kept all those picks to improve our piss poor team.

 

Wilson is 100x more mature and instinctive than RG.  Like night and day.  What we have is an egotistical, immature, prima donna with little very little pocket QB talent.  Just a slower, more injury prone version of Michael Vick, without the dogs

[NewCliche21]

Maybe my expectations were too high at the start of the year.  I've fallen and have found it difficult to get up.  It's not that this team has lost, but that they've been so horribly incompetent and the rot has hit all three phases.  I haven't seen high school special teams perform as badly as we do.  Our D is dismal.  Our O, well RGIII is having his rookie year, Morris is still fantastic, but I've just lost it.

 

I'm not sure how or if I can regain faith in this team this season.  I'm sure I will back next year and within each game I'm cheering and hoping, but right now, we're just a very bad team.

 

I'm with you.  I guess that returning to training camp was a big deal for me, and that's just dumb.  He didn't get the offseason, and he's just disappointing me.  I'm still a fan and would be considered "pro-RGIII", but this season is done, as you said, in all three phases.

 

I don't know how people still have hope.  I'd love to be wrong and eat crow, but I've been deflated since Dallas.

[theTruthTeller]

We would need to win the divison outright.  With a win tonight still 3 games out of the wildcard spot and really 2.5 games out of the divison race since we were swept by the Eagles.  The difference between last year and this year is division wins.  Skins were 5-1 last year, 3-3 at best this year if they can win out.  Currently have a 1-6 NFC record.  The Skins don't have the strength of the tie-breakers in their favor. 

 

If the Skins were going to make a run at the division then it needed to start last week in Philly.  Instead they came out and scored 0 points for the first 3 quarters of the game.  The Skins could get hot and make it interesting, but they've dug themselves too big a hole and would need to rely on the Eagles and Cowboys imploding over the last 5 weeks of the season. 

I think we're effectively four games out of a division championship even with a win tonight.  I'm discounting the chance of the remaining Dallas-Philadelphia game being a tie.

 

Whoever wins the Dallas-Philadelphia game is assured of at least 7 wins.  Both Dallas and Philadelphia hold the tie-breakers against us, and nothing in the remaining schedule can change that.  So the Skins need 8 wins, with Dallas and Philadelphia losing every other game on their schedule, in order to claim the division.

 

If Dallas-Philadelphia tie, however unlikely given their defenses, the Skins would still need 3 wins.  So they are a full three games out.

 

With Carolina already at 8 wins, and the Cards at 7 wins, getting a wild card with less than 8 wins is similarly impossible.

[Taylor703]

We could have had Russell Wilson in the 2nd or 3rd round.  An infinitely better QB than RG.  And kept all those picks to improve our piss poor team.

 

Wilson is 100x more mature and instinctive than RG.  Like night and day.  What we have is an egotistical, immature, prima donna with little very little pocket QB talent.  Just a slower, more injury prone version of Michael Vick, without the dogs

Well guess what, we would've still had the cap penalty, Haslett as coordinator, the same terrible receivers save for garçon and Reed, same special teams unit and the same OL getting Russell killed.

Say we didn't make the trade for Griffin and took Russell, how much would our first round pick had made a difference in a terrible draft last year? If Russell is better like you say we would've had similar or better production so our draft choice would be slotted in the early to mid-twenties both years so what major contributor could we have picked that would fix this gigantic debacle? We had first round picks for the last twenty years and we still suck. Hell we're playing against one of those first round picks tonight in Carlos Rogers player this staff deemed unworthy. Having a bunch of first round picks does nothing if you don't know how to use them or have the staff in charge to coach them. Go back and look at Gibbs I, the most successful era in Redskins football and tell me how many first round draft choices he had...

[theTruthTeller]

...Having a bunch of first round picks does nothing if you don't know how to use them or have the staff in charge to coach them. Go back and look at Gibbs I, the most successful era in Redskins football and tell me how many first round draft choices he had...

Gibbs I was a period with limited/no free agency and no salary cap.  Times are different now - you need good organizational skills and good coaching.

 

Gibbs was a great coach, no doubt.  One of the best of all time in my opinion.  But where do you get another Joe Gibbs?  Evidently, Turner, Schottenheimer, Spurrier, an older Gibbs, and Shanahan - all who have had good-to-great careers - aren't good enough.  Do you have a name that goes with our next coach?

[drowland]

Well guess what, we would've still had the cap penalty, Haslett as coordinator, the same terrible receivers save for garçon and Reed, same special teams unit and the same OL getting Russell killed.

Say we didn't make the trade for Griffin and took Russell, how much would our first round pick had made a difference in a terrible draft last year? If Russell is better like you say we would've had similar or better production so our draft choice would be slotted in the early to mid-twenties both years so what major contributor could we have picked that would fix this gigantic debacle? We had first round picks for the last twenty years and we still suck. Hell we're playing against one of those first round picks tonight in Carlos Rogers player this staff deemed unworthy. Having a bunch of first round picks does nothing if you don't know how to use them or have the staff in charge to coach them. Go back and look at Gibbs I, the most successful era in Redskins football and tell me how many first round draft choices he had...

 

Gibbs I was a different era.  Before free agency like we have today and the salary cap. Teams were able to keep their core together and Bobby B was ahead of his time finding late rd and undrafted gems.  So not having high draft picks didn't hurt Gibbs, but it did impact the franchise when he retired because at that point the roster was old and there wasn't much in terms of young talent for the next coaching regime to work with.