twa Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 One of my best friends in high school took 1/2 day at the vocational school in the county studying plumbing. He endured good natured as well as venomous remarks. Today, his plumbing business is amazing. We have a stigma that EVERYONE has to go to college. And if we dont scam the systems to make that happen, then we're failing. I agree with you TEG. It starts no only with education, but the realization and embrace that every kid doesnt need to sit in a philosophy 101 class to make it in the world. We have very good programs here,but we know the value of skilled labor. I took Industrial co-op training which is basically a apprentice program in partnership with area business. Skinsmary, the best way to improve the economy and hiring is to remove obstacles....especially at the entry level,low skill jobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Actually my stance is, if you dont like your low paying job, take the initiative and work hard to get a better one. Go to school, learn a trade, dont just **** about your current state of affairs, do something about it. Yes, of course you should do that, Captain Obvious. Doesn't change the fact that even if you leave, our society needs someone to do that crappy job you left, and whoever they are, they need to be able to support themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Those jobs can be filled as they were for years by part time and entry level folks. Not lifers. And if everyone improves themselves, those low end jobs will HAVE to pay more because there won't be enough entry level folks to fill them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I think this is a good topic for me to both illustrate an example and ask for honest help. Allow me: I have a very good friend, she was one of my wife's bridesmaids. The girl is 22 years old and graduated last May with a degree as a graphic designer. She has some loans, but nothing stifling, although they will be due soon. She also comes from a family that literally lives paycheck to paycheck. Her father died when she was in middle school and her mother earns minimum wage. Her younger sister is in high school. Her mother has worked very hard to support her, but has never earned enough to buy a second vehicle. Thus, my friend's problem. She lives in a part of rural PA where there is no public transportation. Her savings account is literally zero, so she cannot afford to move or the upfront costs that come with moving (security deposits, etc). She also cannot drive the 20 minutes to the nearest mall or retail center (and certainly can't walk it). As I mentioned, there is no public transportation. What does a person like this do? She has not been able to find a job in the 6 months since graduation. Even when she has, her mother has to take vacation days to drive her in to the interviews. Even when she gets the interview, she is unable to promise that she can consistently go unless the employer gives her an upfront advance for her to buy a vehicle. She also cannot afford to simply move into the nearest city where public transportation is an option. She knows that a "big girl" job is simply a pipe dream for someone in her position, despite having a degree. But even a job in the mall, or McDonalds, which he has done while she was in school, isn't possible now that she is out and living with her mother again. She can't get to work because her mother needs the only vehicle. So what does a person like this actually do to make improvements? If anyone has ideas, as some in this thread seem to imply that options exist, I'd love to pass them on to her. Because this girl has basically decided that marrying out of her mom's house is her only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 Vilandil, she has to find a way to move to an area where there are jobs. She could work it out if there was a will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I dont want to switch gears, but I do have related thought. I know and accept as fact that income disparity is increasing (I dont think it's a bad thing fwiw). My question is, how much has the lower brackets standard of living changed over the last 20-30 years? Is "barely scraping by" meaning completely different than decades ago? Sure, barely scraping by means something completely different. Absolutely. That doesn't mean that poor people are any better off. In some aspects they are worse. People complain the poor people have smart phones, laptops. They call these things "luxuries". No, absolutely not. In order to achieve any sort of success you need to be able to keep up with technology. They need a cell phone because they need a phone. Cell phones are immensely more convenient than land lines and probably the bill to pay given a choice between a land line and a cell phone. Cell phones are a must. 100%. Poor people absolutely need cell phones. Laptops, computers. They need computers and more importantly they need Internet access. Hell, if they want to buy into Obama's crappy health care system they need it. Things that people used to consider luxuries are now necessities. Along with some sort of transportation, housing, food, etc. So yeah, you might not think that people are barely scraping by if they have these "luxuries" but they are. We as a society have mandated that poor people must have these things. Why did we do it? For convenience to rich and upper middle class citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 I hear some of them even have refrigerators! Outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 there is always the military if qualified, motorcycle instead of a car,perhaps explore house sitting? perhaps a interim job where lodging is included? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted November 20, 2013 Share Posted November 20, 2013 there is always the military if qualified, motorcycle instead of a car,perhaps explore house sitting? perhaps a interim job where lodging is included? Interesting solutions. My friend in particular has additional challenged. She has scleroderma, as well as a serious heart condition. To date, she's had three heart surgeries. The military certainly isn't an option, and even most jobs are difficult. It may be illegal, but people definitely turn tail and run when she mentions "I have no transportation with which to get here and I spend about 4-6 weeks of a 52 week year in the hospital". The medications certainly don't help the financial situation. However, I didn't mention these issues before because they aren't the norm. I was curious specifically for solutions to the situation I described in the previous post, and I like the ones you posed. They range from long term (military) to short term and, while not plentiful, are there for sure. Still, I think we can agree that the options are limited and take a degree of creativity and ingenuity to manuever. Sure, barely scraping by means something completely different. Absolutely. That doesn't mean that poor people are any better off. In some aspects they are worse. People complain the poor people have smart phones, laptops. They call these things "luxuries". No, absolutely not. In order to achieve any sort of success you need to be able to keep up with technology. They need a cell phone because they need a phone. Cell phones are immensely more convenient than land lines and probably the bill to pay given a choice between a land line and a cell phone. Cell phones are a must. 100%. Poor people absolutely need cell phones. Laptops, computers. They need computers and more importantly they need Internet access. Hell, if they want to buy into Obama's crappy health care system they need it. Things that people used to consider luxuries are now necessities. Along with some sort of transportation, housing, food, etc. So yeah, you might not think that people are barely scraping by if they have these "luxuries" but they are. We as a society have mandated that poor people must have these things. Why did we do it? For convenience to rich and upper middle class citizens. I agree with this. It's one thing to have the latest and greatest smart phone with the massive data contracts, but having a cell phone isn't a luxury. Having a lap top might be, but not necessarily. You're absolutely right. Good luck landing a job without a phone or email to list where you can be contacted at. Sure, you can go to the library for occasional internet access, but good luck finding a job and communicating with possible employers through their intermittent access. Also, God help you if you're trying to put together a professional resume, CV, or cover letter without a computer and Microsoft Word. Just about the ONE luxury that still makes my blood boil with regards to the poor is cigarettes. Sorry, but you better not be going through 4 packs a day and using food stamps. I know people have addictions, but that one is simply one I can't get past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Interesting solutions. there are also grants for starting out/retraining, though it sounds like disability might be the course for your friend(which also has training ,job placement assistance ect for those able and willing) tell her if she marries to get out of the house to pick a wealthy one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wysknz1 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Those working at McDonalds should just quit and be doctors instead. Cardiac Drs to take care of all that crap being put into their bodies and arteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 there are also grants for starting out/retraining, though it sounds like disability might be the course for your friend(which also has training ,job placement assistance ect for those able and willing) tell her if she marries to get out of the house to pick a wealthy one Or there can always be excuses as to why they can't get a job....months turn into years...it's tough breaking away from the womb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Or there can always be excuses as to why they can't get a job....months turn into years...it's tough breaking away from the womb. Or you can tell them you don't have to work if you don't want to......stupid, stupid stupid me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Skinsmary, the best way to improve the economy and hiring is to remove obstacles....especially at the entry level,low skill jobs But the obstacle is the employer wanting to do more with less. What can we do to "improve" that situation? Btw, your idea for Vilandil's friend is a good one...the disability system may take a while for her to work through, but may be best...darn government programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilandil Tasardur Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Thanks for the advice guys. My wife doesn't think to ask these questions, and I don't know the girl well enough, so I don't know if disability is something the have already explored or are using. What's tough for me is that I see both sides of it. While I feel for the girl because of the challenges, I can't shake the fact that she isn't a particularly good artist, and I wouldn't hire her even if she were healthy with a car. Just because she has a degree doesn't mean she's cut out for the job. Life is hard in funny ways sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 But the obstacle is the employer wanting to do more with less. What can we do to "improve" that situation? Btw, your idea for Vilandil's friend is a good one...the disability system may take a while for her to work through, but may be best...darn government programs. you improve it by making employing people less of a risk and burden,then they can focus on reducing costs elsewhere govt has it's place, until it and others corrupt it and make it part of the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 govt has it's place, until it and others corrupt it and make it part of the problem Well said, the same applies to unions. And CEOs I suppose, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 you improve it by making employing people less of a risk and burden,then they can focus on reducing costs elsewhereHow? What would you do to "make employing people less of a risk and burden"? Isn't "reducing costs elsewhere" equal to providing a product of lesser quality? That's what I know to be true about both McDonald's and Walmart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rictus58 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 How? What would you do to "make employing people less of a risk and burden"? Isn't "reducing costs elsewhere" equal to providing a product of lesser quality? That's what I know to be true about both McDonald's and Walmart. by outsourcing anywhere/anything you can, and paying a little as humanly possible....without touching CEO compensation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 How? What would you do to "make employing people less of a risk and burden"? Isn't "reducing costs elsewhere" equal to providing a product of lesser quality? That's what I know to be true about both McDonald's and Walmart. I can't afford to hire a $10 an hour full time employee because it would cost me about $15,000 a year just for health insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 by outsourcing anywhere/anything you can, and paying a little as humanly possible....without touching CEO compensation. Silly boy. You outsource anywhere/anything you can, pay as little as humanly possible, and then give half of what you save to the CEO. (Seemed fitting, since this thread degenerated into slogans and hyperbole like two pages ago.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Silly boy. You outsource anywhere/anything you can, pay as little as humanly possible, and then give half of what you save to the CEO. If Walmart paid every hourly person benefits, their labor costs would more than double. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurseReversed Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 This is not capitalism, price fixing starts at the very top. It is not the wages paid but the cost of living that matters. What money can buy you. With the price of a single college textbook being as high as 150 dollars. It is no wonder people have problems getting ahead. Prices on health care and education have spiraled out of control. When the value of money is lost and distorted, its the lower class who always loose the most. The cost of living affects them the most. Our monetary policy is having negative effects on the economy, especially on the low income, that are not easily seen in a CPI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I can't afford to hire a $10 an hour full time employee because it would cost me about $15,000 a year just for health insurance. Nonsense, we now have Affordable ins ,besides which if you cut your pay you could easily afford that ya capitalistic swine. not like ya actually do anything to earn your money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 not like ya actually do anything to earn your money Gotta keep those 50 million dollar yearly bonuses coming in. Wouldn't want to mess up my lifestyle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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