tshile Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Seriously? After last night you still believe Trump is an unstoppable force? He was exposed as someone who has no actual plans to do all the things he says (which is obvious if you ever try to find his policy statements via Google, but most people don't want to spend the time). I can't imagine him in a one on one debate, he will run out of talking points in 15 minutes. There's two groups of people. Group 1 - people who think Trump's personality (bully, arrogant, loud mouth) and his lack of detailed policy and experience will sink him. These people think the general electorate is not dumb enough to support him (and generally consider people who support him to be dumb and/or racist.) Group 2 - People who think Trump's support is built on people who are angry and fed up with politicians, and that his growing support shows that these people are serious in their anger. They believe that this type of person is not a far-right extreme group of people, but instead exists across the entire political spectrum. They believe that Clinton embodies the exact thing these people are sick of and are angry at. I'm not saying one is absolutely right and therefore the other is wrong. I actually thing both are right... In my opinion, Group 2 has the right idea about what is going on, which makes me think Clinton cannot beat trump (unless Trump screws it up - so that is: it's Trump's election to lose), but I'm far from 100% sold on that being the truth. Group 1 is right in what they say, because obviously Trump is an arrogant jackass with no experience and no details. But participating in the conversations, and watching other people have the conversations, I constantly see both sides talking past each other. Each group has their reasons for what they see, and neither group is refuting the other. Group 2 isn't arguing that Trump has details, experience, or isn't a jackass. They're arguing that it doesn't matter, there's something more important. People are fed up with politicians. People believe politicians have made this mess while the same politicians live a life of luxury. Group 1 isn't arguing that people aren't angry or fed up, they're arguing it doesn't matter and there's something more important. They think the general public will eventually care that Trump has no experience, no details, and is an arrogant jackass and a bully. Both groups are arguing past each other, and I imagine they'll continue to do so. Guess we'll see which group is bigger eventually... I fear that as long as Group 1 people continue to stick to their stance on this, they're going to get blindsided. There's evidence that shows the people voting for Trump don't agree with him on all the issues, or even some important issues. Yet they're still voting for him. Think about that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 My god, Ted Cruz is one unlikable guy. It astounds me that somehow there is another person on a stage with Donald Trump who is even less likable than him. Public Policy Polling - Thirty Eight Percent of Floridians Think Ted Cruz Might Be the Zodiac Killer [Not the Onion] http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_FL_22516.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 New Group 3 is Establish GOP (mostly writers) who have changed their tune to "Trump is fading" to "The Dems are now scared of Trump". It's a clever way of not supporting him, but also not admitting they've been ****ting bricks over him the past few months. Dems believe (right or wrong) and the demographics of folks who wouldn't vote for Trump are still larger than the high turnout in the GOP primary. We'll see if that's true. I honestly have no idea if they'll have an even higher turnout of minorities and moderate/dem women showing up in the fall to vote against the idea of Trump. I kind of feel like when you message is being anti-somebody, it's usually weaker than being for somebody. It happened to Kerry in 04, McCain in 08 and Romney in 12. They were all more about being opposite to the other guy, than standing for something themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Heard one of the early voters here ****ing because there was no straight party option on the primary ballot , naturally a Trump fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Heard one of the early voters here ****ing because there was no straight party option on the primary ballot , naturally a Trump fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I'm not saying one is absolutely right and therefore the other is wrong. I actually thing both are right... In my opinion, Group 2 has the right idea about what is going on, which makes me think Clinton cannot beat trump (unless Trump screws it up - so that is: it's Trump's election to lose), but I'm far from 100% sold on that being the truth. Group 1 is right in what they say, because obviously Trump is an arrogant jackass with no experience and no details. I think most people in group 1 understand what group 2 is saying. What group 2 doesn't seem to understand is if you look at the electoral math and the state polls that we do have, the evidence actually supports group 1. When Hillary is essentially even to Trump in NC and OH (both states that Romney won and still lost big), it is hard to come up with electoral math that allows for a Trump victory. Even without fleshing out details, it doesn't appear as if Trump is going to beat Hillary in a general election. And it isn't hard to imagine that Trump is going to have to start to flesh out some details and will lose supporters. And yes, you can argue that the polls are all wrong, just like Paul supporters did and the conservative media did in 2012 with respect to Romney. But there is no real evidence of that and what is happening with the actual votes is consistent with the polls. Group 1's opinions are actually supported by the existing data. (And again let me say, it is early. Hillary has essentially taken on the mantel of Obama III. That puts her at a large risk if something happens that makes Obama look weak(er) or worse. Another recession would hurt Hillary badly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I kind of feel like when you message is being anti-somebody, it's usually weaker than being for somebody. It happened to Kerry in 04, McCain in 08 and Romney in 12. They were all more about being opposite to the other guy, than standing for something themselves. I agree with that. Only problem is Trump isn't anti-the-other-guy, like in your cases. He isn't anti-the-other-party. He's anti-everyone-involved-in-this-system. The GOP, the democrats, the life long career politician. I imagine you're right about the GOP and the bricks they're ****ting right now. I would love to be a fly on the wall for those conversations. A great movie could probably be made about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Designer virus. The Right has been spending decades manufacturing Trump via FOX news, Talk Radio, Tea Party. Someone like him was the inevitable outcome. All hate and invective. No ideas. We might be lucky though. Trump may not have been the worst outcome of that caustic stew that they've been brewing. He's just the first viable eye of Newt that fell out of the cauldron. Bet Limbaugh and Beck and O'Reily are kicking themselves, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I agree with that. Only problem is Trump isn't anti-the-other-guy, like in your cases. He isn't anti-the-other-party. He's anti-everyone-involved-in-this-system. The GOP, the democrats, the life long career politician. I imagine you're right about the GOP and the bricks they're ****ting right now. I would love to be a fly on the wall for those conversations. A great movie could probably be made about it. That's my point. Trump is Pro-Trump. Cruz/Rubio are Anti-Trump. Anti-Obama, Anti-Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 i passed out at 7 last night. slept until 6. been sick. sounds like i missed a hell of a debate. I'm getting the impression I missed a pro wrestling cage match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Bet Limbaugh and Beck and O'Reily are kicking themselves, now. Bet they'd deny responsibility or if they thought it was them would feel a moment of kingmaking pride. Then, they'd just double down on the hate, invective, and lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 << img of response to Cruz being zodiak killer >>This just confirms to me that there is a good chance Trump could win Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Bet they'd deny responsibility or if they thought it was them would feel a moment of kingmaking pride. Then, they'd just double down on the hate, invective, and lies. Not sure you understand my point. I bet they're kicking themselves, saying "Damn, that should have been me". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Not sure you understand my point. I bet they're kicking themselves, saying "Damn, that should have been me". Hmmm.... I don't know if that's their aspiration. I think they want the power, but not the responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Hmmm.... I don't know if that's their aspiration. I think they want the power, but not the responsibility. I don't even think it is about power. It is about money. They are in business, and the business is to drive ratings, endorsements, speaking fees, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 That's my point. Trump is Pro-Trump. Cruz/Rubio are Anti-Trump. Anti-Obama, Anti-Clinton. ? Cruz isn't anti Rubio, Anti Obama, Anti Clinton and anti Trump? You can say that about every candidate. Also Trumps lack of detail hardly sets him apart in this field. As for him being the vitriol candidate.. Jesus he's the guy telling the GOP he won't defund Planned Parenthood because millions of women get their healthcare from them. He's the guy arguing against letting people die on the street with no healthcare. He's the guy who opposes war as an instrument of foreign policy. And you guys think he's the extremist on the GOP side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Hmmm.... I don't know if that's their aspiration. I think they want the power, but not the responsibility. You think Trump will have responsibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Bet Limbaugh and Beck and O'Reily are kicking themselves, now. Beck is either mentally ill, or just full of ****. Maybe both. The guy gets on stage for Cruz, takes out items....claims they belonged to George Washington. Already has been debunked on his claim that he has a copy of don quixote that belonged to Washington. Well, he said the one he had in his hand at a Rally was that. Then he said....No, but I have it at home. Mount Vernon calls Bull**** on that. Also something about a compass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 BTW, in the spirit of building bridges in these divisive times, can we all come together and agree that Wolf Blitzer did a royally ****ty job as moderator of the debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 BTW, in the spirit of building bridges in these divisive times, can we all come together and agree that Wolf Blitzer did a royally ****ty job as moderator of the debate? Only if we question whether it was possible for a moderator to do a good job yesterday. (I didn't actually watch the debate except for one clip, but in that clip, he tried to restore order and was roundly ignored) I do think you can tsk a parent whose child is having a tantrum in the mall for being a bad parent, but sometimes kids are going to go ballistic and there's not much the parent can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump Lying Ted Cruz and leightweight chocker Marco Rubio teamed up last night in a last ditch effort to stop our great movement. They failed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 You think Trump will have responsibility? If he is elected he will be responsible. That's entirely different from acting responsibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 As for him being the vitriol candidate.. Jesus he's the guy telling the GOP he won't defund Planned Parenthood because millions of women get their healthcare from them. He's the guy arguing against letting people die on the street with no healthcare. He's the guy who opposes war as an instrument of foreign policy. And you guys think he's the extremist on the GOP side? He said he'd defund it. Despite all the other things they do, he's going to defund (because you know he's pro life now). And he's said he'd bomb Iran. http://dailycaller.com/2015/07/20/donald-trump-in-2007-we-have-to-strike-iran/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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