Election 16: Donald Trumps wins Presidency. God Help us all!

[Larry]

They do love Cruz per favorables polling....Trump not so much.

 

Guess he is a LOSER there too.

 

And Kirk Cousins won the Super Bowl this year.  Because he had the best completion percentage. 

 

(My point:  That's not how they decide who the winner is.) 

[twa]

Odd Carson performed well above his polling then 

 

You see any Cruz voters in Iowa claiming that(they switched because of a rumor)?.....surely there must be many if what you claim is true.

[Larry]

The disaster that is Iraq is certainly debatable as it's current status.

Note to anybody thinking about continuing this discussion: You are arguing with someone who believes that whether Iraq was, and is, a disaster "is debatable".

[JMS]

Odd Carson performed well above his polling then 

 

You see any Cruz voters in Iowa claiming that?.....sure there must be many if what you claim is true.

 

 

So your position isn't that Cruz didn't lie.   Your position is that his lies didn't help him that much?

[twa]

So your position isn't that Cruz didn't lie.   Your position is that his lies didn't help him that much?

 

I've seen no evidence Cruz lied, his staff made a error based off of reporting of a rather unusual action announced by Carson.....and did not correct it

 

Your position is it helped Cruz  ....or are you abandoning that now?

[Larry]

I've seen no evidence Cruz lied, his staff made a error based off of reporting of a rather unusual action announced by Carson.....and did not correct it

1) So, it's not lying if you send your staff out with untrue talking points based on bad intel, and then don't correct it?

2) And could you point me at this "reporting of a rather unusual action" that led Cruz to honestly announce that "Carson is ending his campaign (so, vote for me, instead)"?

[DogofWar1]

At a minimum Cruz's campaign made a false statement through their mailings.

 

How much direct responsibility Cruz bears for the falsehood can be up for debate, but he certainly deserves a significant amount, especially in light of the fact that no one was fired from his campaign.  If someone had been identified as the one who did most of this stuff and was let go, perhaps it could be shifted from Cruz himself, but if it's his campaign, and nobody acted in contravention to his requests, and no one was let go, and a falsehood was made, well, Cruz needs to take most of the blame for the falsehood.

 

Liar seems a little strong, but the shoe is not a bad fit. 

[twa]

1) So, it's not lying if you send your staff out with untrue talking points based on bad intel, and then don't correct it?

2) And could you point me at this "reporting of a rather unusual action" that led Cruz to honestly announce that "Carson is ending his campaign (so, vote for me, instead)"?

 

(1) bad intel? ....it was a assumption based on news

Not correcting it was a error and repeatedly apologized for

 

(2) 

Tapper:

 Thanks, Wolf. Well, CNN has learned some news about the man who, at least according to polls, is in fourth place here in Iowa. Now, Dana, a week from tomorrow, we’re all going to be doing this again for the New Hampshire primary. So almost every single candidate is going to be going directly from here to New Hampshire to campaign–except for the man in fourth place, who a few months ago was in first place here, Dr. Ben Carson. What have we learned?

Bash:

 That’s right. We should say that our Chris Moody is breaking this news, that Ben Carson is going to go back to Florida, to his home, regardless of how he does tonight here in Iowa. He’s going to go there for several days. And then afterwards, he’s not going to go to South Carolina. He’s not going to go to New Hampshire. He’s going to come to Washington, D.C., and he’s going to do that because the National Prayer Breakfast is on Thursday. And people who have been following Ben Carson’s career know that that’s really where he got himself on the political map, attending that prayer breakfast, and really giving it to President Obama at the time. And he became kind of a hero among conservatives, among evangelicals especially.

Tapper: 

But it’s very unusual–

Bash:

 Very unusual.

Tapper: 

–to be announcing that you’re going to go home to rest for a few days, not going on to the next site. Plus, he’s already announced that he’s going to be coming out and speaking at 9:15 local and 10:15 Eastern, no matter whether or not we know the results, because he wants to get home and get ahead of the storm.

Bash:

 Look, if you want to be President of the United States, you don’t go home to Florida. I mean, that’s bottom line. That’s the end of the story. If you want to signal to your supporters that you want it, that you’re hungry for it, that you want them to get out and and campaign, you’ve got to be out there doing it too. And he’s not doing it. it’s very unusual.

Tapper: 

Very unusual news that CNN has just learned. CNN’s Chris Moody breaking the story. Wolf, back to you in Washington.

Blitzer:

 Very significant news indeed, guys, thanks very much.

and some tweets

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/02/04/cruz-carson-email-trump-iowa-cnn/

At a minimum Cruz's campaign made a false statement through their mailings.

 

 

 

Exactly what mailings?

[DogofWar1]

Exactly what mailings?

 

I think I got Cruz's actions with regard to Carson mixed up with his shady mailer about "voting violations."  http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/ted-cruzs-voter-shaming-mailer-may-have-violated-the-law/

 

Cruz's win in Iowa deserves a couple of asterisks, certainly.  He was pushing the limits of "dirty tricks" as far as he possibly could.

 

Practicing for SC, I suppose.  Hopefully the old adage that cheaters never win holds true.

[Dan T.]

Well Dan then you haven't been watching the debates. Trump crushed Kassich who's entire campaign was about him being a good experienced fiscally responsible manager.. Experienced hands... Trump was the only candidate who brought up that Kassich was the managing partner of Lehmann's brothers when they blinked out of existence, were helping undermine the global economy, and their actions ended in a multi billion dollar fine.

Carly Fiorina was making headway in the polls, largely based upon her business success at HP. Trump pointed out that she was a disaster at HP. That the company's stock price when she left was a fraction of it when she took over. That she left the company with huge debt and smaller than when she found it.

George Bush touts his brother and father along with his successful governorship as his creditability to be president. Trump has savaged George W's Presidency and the mistake which was the Iraq war. Even Jeb had to come out and proclaim the Iraq war a mistake. Problem is it took Jeb six weeks to do it as he fumbled with that question out of the gate. Trump has hung that around Jeb's neck and made everybody aware of it. Trump has also savaged Jeb's handling of the Florida economy, left florida with a larger government and in more debt.

Trump on Cruz. Trump has called Cruz a liar which is very personal, but Trump has explained and given specific instances which is pretty good politics. Cruz is lying about Donalds positions on the second amendment and the Affordable Care Act. Trump has a carry permit and has said he would not object if any of his employees carried guns at work as he does. Trump is pretty hard core 2nd amendment and Cruz must know that.. Trump is also consistently against the Affordable Care Act, and Cruz has tried to paint Donald as being in favor of it in SC which is another example of Cruz's dishonesty. Cruz also lied famously in winning the Iowa Caucus, telling Ben Carson supporters that he was pulling out of the race. I also think Trump pointing out their is a constitutional challenge to Cruz's eligibility is fair game since Cruz would almost certainly face such a legal challenge if he got the nomination. Prominent Republican Senators have said as much, as well as some very credentialed Congressional Scholars.

On Rubio, Trump has criticized him on both the issues (1) Poorly informed, (2) Poorly prepared (3) Favors Amnesty for illegals. and personally... "sweats more than any young person I've ever seen".... so that's another tweener.

 

 

Well JMS, I've watched all the debates except the last one - and I saw many of the "highlights" of that one.   And your rambling rebuttal exemplifies my point.  These are attacks on his rivals that are either factually incorrect or that anyone who reads a newspaper could levy.  

 

1. His "crushing" of Kasich was factually incorrect:

Trump version of reality - Kasich "was the man that was a managing general partner at Lehman Brothers when it went down the tubes and almost took every one of us with it. ...And Lehman Brothers started it all. He was on the board. And he was a managing general partner." 

 Reality - Kasich never served on the company's board and was not a managing general partner. Rather, he worked in a two-person office in Columbus as one of several hundred managing directors for the firm.

 

[Cleveland Plain Dealer: http://www.cleveland.com/open/index.ssf/2015/10/here_are_the_facts_behind_3_go.html]

 

2. HP stock didn't do well under Carly Fiorina?  Earth shattering analysis, Donald. Anybody with access to Yahoo knew of her checkered HP history.  But somehow you think Donald is brilliant for bringing this up?

 

3. Bush lied, people died.  Thank god Donald was the first to say that.

 

4. Cruz. Geez where do I even start on that mishmash of crap you threw up there. If you go look at Trump's past statements, much of what Cruz says about Trump's positions on guns and health care is correct.  Or was at least at one time.

 

5. Rubio sweats. Well, you got me there.  Trump is Presidential material.

 

But your overall response is telling.  I ask where Trump's depth is on the issues, and you give me a blow-by-blow on the attacks of his rivals. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think Trump drops lawsuits like people eat tic tacs.   That doesn't make Trump wrong, its all his tactic to keep people off guard.  Cruz or anybody Trump is thus threatening should take Trump seriously.   It's what Trump does.   Don't want to get sued,  don't lye about him and hit him on his positions.

 

 

 

 

And that is the man you want to be President of the United States.

[visionary]

http://time.com/4225884/ted-cruz-military-gluten-free-meals/?xid=time_socialflow_twitter

Ted Cruz Pledges Not to Provide Gluten-Free Meals to the Military

 

He equated the meals with a culture of political correctness

 

Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz looked to gain the support of military voters in South Carolina on Tuesday, promising to build a robust military if elected and pledged not to provide gluten-free military meals, which he equated with a culture of political correctness.

 

“That’s why the last thing any commander should need to worry about is the grades he is getting from some plush-bottomed Pentagon bureaucrat for political correctness or social experiments—or providing gluten-free MREs,” Cruz said, using the shorthand term for Meal, Ready-to-Eat, CNN reported.

 

About 1% of Americans have celiac disease, an autoimmune disorder that makes a person intolerant to gluten, according to the Celiac Disease Foundation. A spokesman for the Department of Defense said the provision of gluten-free meals differs based on the military branch.

 

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/431454/raul-labrador-endorses-ted-cruz

Freedom Caucus Leader Raul Labrador Goes Cruz

 

Raul Labrador, Idaho representative and a leader of the House Freedom Caucus, is endorsing Ted Cruz for president, sources close to the campaign confirm. 

 

Labrador had previously thrown his weight behind Kentucky senator Rand Paul, serving as his Western States Chairman. Candidates began vying for Labrador’s endorsement as soon as Paul left the race following a less-than-stellar showing in the Iowa caucuses. 

 

Labrador is the latest in a string of Freedom Caucus members to back Cruz: Kansas representative Tim Huelskamp announced his support of the Texas senator earlier today, and Mark Meadows, the Freedom Caucus leader who attempted to oust John Boehner from the speakership last summer, unveiled his endorsement last month.

[Dan T.]

^^That smells like a market-tested throwaway line for the base.  

[Larry]

^^That smells like a market-tested throwaway line for the base.  

 

Well, in Cruz' defense, I suspect that pretty much everything said, by everybody except Trump, falls in that category. 

 

(And I'd be willing to bet, it works.) 

[sacase]

Do you realize the disaster that Iraq is? The rise of Iran, arms race throughout the region, power vacuum leading to ISIS, etc. Just a complete **** show that's going to continue for a long while. The strategy was retarded at best and criminal at worst. That's pretty accepted across the spectrum. That's what W is going to be remembered for. So how exactly is that going to get better for him?

Iraq was settling down until Obama came a long and completely neglected it. The Rise of ISIS and Iran is all on Obama. 

[DogofWar1]

Iraq was settling down until Obama came a long and completely neglected it. The Rise of ISIS and Iran is all on Obama. 

That's like saying the inmate was settling down while he was restrained to the medical table.

 

The big catalyst for ISIS was the Shia majority in Iraq basically tossing the Sunnis out of the government.  The Shia majority basically ignored one of the most important parts of democracy, that is, not ****ing over the minority too much, and that led to Sunnis bailing in huge numbers and sympathizing or more with ISIS.  Iraq did all of that on their own.

 

Sure, not having 100,000 American troops there and American diplomats looking over the government's shoulder keeping them from doing bad things made such abuse by the Shia majority possible, but then you need to have 100,000 troops there, which, in case we forgot, costs a LOT.

 

ISIS was inevitable the moment Saddam fell.  There was no way to ensure that the sectarian factions played nice without 100,000 American troops there to enforce it, something which was logistically and financially impossible to maintain for the probably 50-60 years it would have taken to *maybe* if we were lucky, get the grandchildren and great grandchildren of young people today to overlook religious differences.

 

Barring that, it was just a matter of when the US finally got tired of occupying a country halfway around the world.  Whether Bush pulled out in '06, Obama when he did, Hillary/Cruz/whoever in '18, or whoever will be president in '24, '30, '36, etc., ISIS or something very similar would have popped up shortly after we left.

 

Maybe the guy in the 2054 would have had more luck.  Before then?  Probably not.  These are 1,000 year grudges, those take at least a couple generations to smooth over.

[88Comrade2000]

Convictions? The only conviction Donald has is himself.  The anger on the right is because the voters are stupid in believing the lies the Republicans have told to get elected in 2010 and 2014. They actually expected them to do what they said they would.

 

So, now some of them are following someone who claims; he will be their savior. He will make America great again. He will beat everyone and be a winner.

 

 

There's nothing great about Trump. He's tapped into the anger on the right but by appealing to the worst instincts. 

 

He doesn't get things his way, he sues.  Trump wouldn't know the truth if it hit in the face.  The man changes positions all the time; sometime in the same conservation.

 

It's sad that what looked good on paper: The 2016 Republican field turned out to be nothing.

 

 

I don't know.. Bernie head to head against Trump will be a show.. They are both very strong true believers in what they are selling.

That's ultimately why Trump has been so successful. The other folks on stage don't have the confidence in their convictions that Donald does, and that really shows. They sound convincing but they equivocate and lye when pressed. Donald doesn't equivocate.

 

[BornaSkinsFan83]

Iraq was settling down until Obama came a long and completely neglected it. The Rise of ISIS and Iran is all on Obama.

Oh bull****. We don't invade, none of it happens. Good luck getting history to blame Obama for Iraq.

That's like saying the inmate was settling down while he was restrained to the medical table.

The big catalyst for ISIS was the Shia majority in Iraq basically tossing the Sunnis out of the government. The Shia majority basically ignored one of the most important parts of democracy, that is, not ****ing over the minority too much, and that led to Sunnis bailing in huge numbers and sympathizing or more with ISIS. Iraq did all of that on their own.

Sure, not having 100,000 American troops there and American diplomats looking over the government's shoulder keeping them from doing bad things made such abuse by the Shia majority possible, but then you need to have 100,000 troops there, which, in case we forgot, costs a LOT.

ISIS was inevitable the moment Saddam fell. There was no way to ensure that the sectarian factions played nice without 100,000 American troops there to enforce it, something which was logistically and financially impossible to maintain for the probably 50-60 years it would have taken to *maybe* if we were lucky, get the grandchildren and great grandchildren of young people today to overlook religious differences.

Barring that, it was just a matter of when the US finally got tired of occupying a country halfway around the world. Whether Bush pulled out in '06, Obama when he did, Hillary/Cruz/whoever in '18, or whoever will be president in '24, '30, '36, etc., ISIS or something very similar would have popped up shortly after we left.

Maybe the guy in the 2054 would have had more luck. Before then? Probably not. These are 1,000 year grudges, those take at least a couple generations to smooth over.

Agree obviously. You're forgetting that the Iraqi government told us to leave though. Our deal to keep troops in country was up and Iraq didn't extend it. Short of forcing our way into staying (basically invading the invaded) we didn't really have an option then.

[JMS]

I've seen no evidence Cruz lied,

Sure you have... CNN article I posted flat out said it.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/06/politics/ted-cruz-cnn-republican-debate/

(CNN)Sen. Ted Cruz knowingly misstated CNN's reporting during Saturday's Republican primary debate, despite the fact that CNN's reporting was correct all along.

his staff made a error based off of reporting of a rather unusual action announced by Carson.....and did not correct it

 

The only people buying Cruz's explanation are you and Cruz.   Cruz in his national televised apology to Carson,  misstated the facts which both Ben Carson and CNN have corrected him on.   CNN never said Carson was dropping out of the race.   It was a dirty tactic.

Your position is it helped Cruz  ....or are you abandoning that now?

Cruz won by what 4 points. Yes Cruz was helped by his dirty tactics.. That's why he did it. Sure why else did he do it.

[JMS]

Convictions? The only conviction Donald has is himself.  The anger on the right is because the voters are stupid in believing the lies the Republicans have told to get elected in 2010 and 2014. They actually expected them to do what they said they would.

I disagree. Donald has been asked some very difficult questions in this race. and he's answered all of them on the spot, often without notice and not wavered one bit.

Cruz, Rubio, and Bush can't say the same thing.

There's nothing great about Trump. He's tapped into the anger on the right but by appealing to the worst instincts.

I think a lot of what the right / donald supporters are angry about can be shown in (1) shameless self promoters like Cruz who put the good of the country second to his short term political goals.. (2) Guys like Jeb who are trying to stratal the fense between having admitted the war in Iraq was a huge mistake, and not.. I mean it's kind of hard to fall on both sides of that titanic question, Bush has done it. (3) Guys like Rubio who can memorize two or three 25 second blurbs repeat them well, and folks think he has the resume to be President.

The big catalyst for ISIS was the Shia majority in Iraq basically tossing the Sunnis out of the government.

yeah and of coarse the United States saying if you were in the Iraqi Military under Saddam you couldn't be in the military anymore. Literally putting hundreds of thousands of well trained soldiers out on the streets willing to work for the highest bidder... And Isis eventually became that bidder.

[twa]

Sure you have... CNN article I posted flat out said it.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/06/politics/ted-cruz-cnn-republican-debate/

Cruz won by what 4 points. Yes Cruz was helped by his dirty tactics.. That's why he did it. Sure why else did he do it.

 

I posted a transcript from CNN, can you do the same?...or are you just gonna play Trump 

 

Still haven't found this mass of outraged carson voters that voted for Cruz because of deception???? ....highly odd

 

Trump or Rubio didn't get those votes is your position?

 

add

 

btw your boy is retweeting lies, perhaps you should tell him

 

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/coburn-trump-circulated-quote-attacking-cruz-absolute-fabrication/article/2583379

[Zazzaro703]

Iraq was settling down until Obama came a long and completely neglected it. The Rise of ISIS and Iran is all on Obama.

Let's not forget Libya and arming "moderate rebels" in Syria as the assine decisions those were too. Since 2000, we have complete bungled the Middle East. Both parties have ****ed it up.

[JMS]

1. His "crushing" of Kasich was factually incorrect:

Trump version of reality - Kasich "was the man that was a managing general partner at Lehman Brothers when it went down the tubes and almost took every one of us with it. ...And Lehman Brothers started it all. He was on the board. And he was a managing general partner." 

 Reality - Kasich never served on the company's board and was not a managing general partner. Rather, he worked in a two-person office in Columbus as one of several hundred managing directors for the firm.

 

Well respectfully you misquoted Trumps statement..  Kasich job title was in fact "managing director" a position which earned him more than $600,000 in 2008 the year they went bankrupt.   Trump called him "managing general partner" not a member of the board of directors.   It's absurd for the former chairman of the house budget committee to claim he was such a small fish he didn't actually do anything at Leehmans for his 600,000 dollar salary. 

 

2. HP stock didn't do well under Carly Fiorina?  Earth shattering analysis, Donald. Anybody with access to Yahoo knew of her checkered HP history.  But somehow you think Donald is brilliant for bringing this up?

Carly was hinging her entire presidential run on her business record. She was climbing in the polls. She had just made a statement about how she grew revenues at HB by 200% or some such thing. No other candidate had laid a hand on her.. And yes she never recovered from the gut punch donnald gave her when she started picking on him.. He noted that their stock declined significantly and while their net revenue was up due to an expensive purchase of Compaq computer, their debt was also way up, and their total profits were down significantly.. And yeah that 30 second blurb was the end of Carly's campaign..

3. Bush lied, people died.  Thank god Donald was the first to say that.

Jeb Bush first got the question about his position on the iraq war days into his campaign. He wasn't ready for it and he fumbled the answer. Months latter during the first debate he got the question again and after much helming and hawing he admitted it was a mistake. Now he's doubling back around on that.. And yeah Donald has consistently been calling the Iraq War a mistake.. As apposed to Rubio and Cruz who have hired Bush's foreign policy team and are actively planning to invade the ME today.

4. Cruz. Geez where do I even start on that mishmash of crap you threw up there. If you go look at Trump's past statements, much of what Cruz says about Trump's positions on guns and health care is correct.  Or was at least at one time.

Yeah you are pretty much wrong on that too.. Donald is the NRA's dream candidate. he's had a carry permit for years and regularly carries himself. He also said in a debate that he would not object to his employee's carrying guns to work if they were liscenced as he was. He's not changed or nuanced his position at all. Cruz saying Donald is in favor of gun control is knowingly dishonest.

As for healthcare, Donald has also consistently been opposed to the ACA. Crus's characterization of Donald favoring it is just dishonest.

Go back and check the tape of the first debate.. Donald covered these positions in his first debate and haven't change his positions at all in this campaign.

5. Rubio sweats. Well, you got me there.  Trump is Presidential material.

Trumps not worried about Rubio. Rubio self destructed in debate #9. Get him off his memorized blurbs and he becomes incoherent and flounders. He lost all his momentum there. Don't have to go any further, and you don't even have to invoke Trumps name.

 

But your overall response is telling.  I ask where Trump's depth is on the issues, and you give me a blow-by-blow on the attacks of his rivals.

I do find Trump compelling. I think he's got by far the best stump speech in the race. His mantra of America being the largest most successful economy in the world, yet our infrastructure is crumbling around us is powerful. As is his declaration that the reason why is because we have politicians who have never accomplished anything outside of politics making decisions instead of business people. That resonates, as the problem is actually real, and the solution is a new and untried one.. And yeah that Donald knocks the heck out of folks who mess with him doesn't hurt him any either.

Donald has three core issues in this campaign.. (1) Rebuild America's infrastructure.. (2) Protect and fix our boarders. (3) Take care of the Vets... I think that's three more issues than I've heard the rest of there GOP field articulate prior to Donald bringing up the topics.

 

 

 

 

And that is the man you want to be President of the United States.

I would easily take Trump over anybody else on the GOP side.. Not because I always agree with his positions or because Donald has the best manors. I like Donald because I think he will change the GOP party, I don't believe he will get us into another war as I'm sure Cruz and Rubio will ( are already planning too.) Maybe Jeb will too. And finally because I think Donald is truthful and tells you what he thinks.. That too is not true of Rubio, Cruz or Bush.

[Dan T.]

I would easily take Trump over anybody else on the GOP side.. Not because I always agree with his positions or because Donald has the best manors.

Oh I'm pretty sure Trump has the best manors of anybody running. Yuuge manors.

Not so sure about the rest of what you wrote, though.

[JMS]

Still haven't found this mass of outraged carson voters that voted for Cruz because of deception???? ....highly odd

well TWA let me help you out there too..

 

Iowa governor pans Cruz for 'unethical' actions in caucus

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-primaries/268243-iowa-governor-pans-cruz-for-unethical-practices-at-caucus

Cruz Campaign Under Fire for Sending Iowans Controversial Letter

http://time.com/4201323/ted-cruz-mailer-iowa/

Des Moines Register

Cruz's campaign of deceit should worry voters

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/opinion/editorials/2016/02/04/editorial-cruzs-campaign-deceit-should-worry-voters/79820512/

The state's paper of record charged the Cruz campaign with peddling "pure, unadulterated fiction" when it sent voting mailers that appeared to be from the government.

The mailers told voters they had received a "voting violation" because of poor caucus participation in the past and for sharing information about other voters.

"This was simply a politically motivated attempt to shame certain people into caucusing by assigning them 'grades' and 'scores' that had absolutely no legitimacy," the paper wrote.

 

 

Sen. Ted Cruz accused of committing voter fraud at Iowa caucus

https://www.intellihub.com/sen-ted-cruz-accused-of-committing-voter-fraud-at-iowa-caucus/

[JMS]

Let's not forget Libya and arming "moderate rebels" in Syria as the assine decisions those were too. Since 2000, we have complete bungled the Middle East. Both parties have ****ed it up.

You haven't gotten the talking points.. The GOP which opposed both the air strikes in Libya and in Syria a year ago when they began are now critical of President Obama for not going far enough...

Oh and of coarse the fact that every candidate for the GOP nomination has the exact same policy on Syria as President Obama.. No ground forces.. Sunny coalition lead by boots on the ground from moderate ME states, US Air Strikes only.

 

If Issis was actually a threat,  we would go in and clean them out in like 3 days..  It would cost us a lot of money..  but we'd do it..  The fact that no Republican or Dem is suggesting we go in,  kind of underlines the fact that we don't really care.