Mr. Sinister Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Harden isnt averaging a triple double, which is what i meant. Too close to call, honestly, between the two. I cant do it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 28 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: I entertained it earlier in the season, but at this point, unless someone has some next level stats about how Oscar got his rebounds in a more watered down league, im paying it zero attention from here on out The league wasn't watered down back then, there were way fewer teams and so a lot of the teams were loaded. Oscar had two other All Stars on his team in Wayne Embry and Jack Twyman. But that's not as impressive as it sounds when you see that there were several other teams that had four and five great players on them. Sometimes more. There are numerous things which characterize that era as unique: they fouled liked crazy, they didn't have the three point line, teams turned it over a ton, they ran fast break offenses which put up quick shots leading to a ton of available rebounds, and the best players played a ridiculous amount of minutes. NBA games were both way faster and way more grinding back then. Oscar averaged just under 11 FTAs and 44 minutes a game the first 8 years of his career. Fouling was strategy because the rules were different. Teams would do it to prevent comebacks and make sure opponents didn't get up shot attempts. So they came up with a lot of the modern rules about fouling by 66-67 to stop teams from doing it so much. But prior to that, great players like Oscar got to the line a ton, which helped them score so much without the three point line. The pace was crazy too. They were straight up chuckers and they passed it so much more that they turned it over a ton. The league average FG% was .426 during Oscar's triple double season, and no team shot better than his Royals's .452. The NBA champion Celtics shot .423. Now the league average is over 45% and the best teams shoot over 48%. Oscar's averaging 30 points on 48% shooting is actually way more impressive than Westbrook getting his numbers on 42% shooting given his era. Oscar was a much better and more dominant scorer than Westbrook. He was MJ before MJ. Also Oscar didn't actually win MVP the year he averaged the triple double. Bill Russell was MVP. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Thanks for the info. Didn't know that. Apparently Wilt also averaged 50 pts that season. Christ. Taj Gibson looks really good for OKC so far. Solid pickup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 If I got an MVP ballot, I would vote 1 - Durant 2 - Kawhi 3 - Harden 4 - LeBron 5 - Westbrook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 No way is Durant over Westbrook in the MVP race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Harden is the MVP. He's leading a one star team and he's got them third in the west with a nearly .700 record. In other news, Golden State just isn't the same without their best player are they? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: If I got an MVP ballot, I would vote 1 - Durant 2 - Kawhi 3 - Harden 4 - LeBron 5 - Westbrook I got the sane players, but would rearrange them 1 Westbrook/Harden 2 Harden/Westbrook 3 Kawhi 4 Durant 5 LeBron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Harden Bron Russ Kawhi Wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 6 hours ago, Destino said: Harden is the MVP. He's leading a one star team and he's got them third in the west with a nearly .700 record. In other news, Golden State just isn't the same without their best player are they? Kawhi is leading a one star team to an even better record. LaMarcus Aldridge didn't make the AS game. Kawhi has also been a world's better defensive player. Durant would deserve MVP if he hadn't gotten hurt. He's been Golden State's best player this year and they're the best team by a mile. I think Harden and Westbrook's seasons are being overrated because of their monster offensive output. But Westbrook's output is frequently the result of him playing bad basketball, and Harden's numbers are inflated by playing lead guard in the crazy ass system the Rockets run which basically abandons defense. Durant and Leonard are actually both playing dominant two way basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I could see Harden winning MVP over more deserving forwards and then getting his butt kicked by those guys's teams in the playoffs just like Steve Nash did ten years ago. Voters get bamboozled by Mike D'Antoni players. Also no way does Westbrook deserve MVP this year. He is an absolutely shameless chucker and stat padder who doesn't play defense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) LeBron's season has also flying under the radar a bit, if that can be possible. He has been really good on defense this year and he's averaging 26-8-9 on amazing efficiency. Best player on the one seed in the East. Almost a sure bet to play in the Finals and he could definitely win another ring and Finals MVP. If you were worried about being a prisoner of the moment and having your MVP choice look stupid in a couple of years (ahem, Steve Nash), then LeBron is the safe bet to avoid that. Only reason I ding him is that I think his team has underachieved a little and went through some doldrums that I don't think he handled all that well whereas San Antonio and Houston have been more consistently excellent. But I still think this was Durant's award to lose before the knee injury happened. Now I think he'll miss too many games to still deserve to win it. Edited March 3, 2017 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Kawhi is leading a one star team to an even better record. LaMarcus Aldridge didn't make the AS game. Kawhi has also been a world's better defensive player. I think in general defense is massively under rated by people when it comes to the NBA. To me, Leonard is the MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I don't think its fair to call Westbrook a chucker and stat padder. There is literally nobody else on his team worth a damn(maybe Kanter that's about it). If he doesn't take every shot and handle the ball everytime they have no shot at winning. I agree on Leonard though. He's an absolute beast. If he played in New York or LA he'd be a megastar but he's basically the prototypical San Antonio Spur. Still can't believe the Wiz passed on him to draft Jan freaking Vesley... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 35 minutes ago, PeterMP said: I think in general defense is massively under rated by people when it comes to the NBA. To me, Leonard is the MVP. Yeah, it's hard to quantify. It gets underrated when people try and look at big picture comparisons but it really stands out during the games themselves. And it's impact is usually baked in to the W/L record. San Antonio, Memphis, and Utah will put up really good records despite not having any spectacular offensive talent. You might wonder how they do it until you see first hand the immense impact that guys like Kawhi and Rudy Gobert have on the outcome of games. Another factor why defense gets underrated in comparison to offense is that it's more system reliant. A great defensive player can be wasted in a crappy system with teammates who are all lousy defenders. But a great scorer can get his numbers anywhere. But when the brilliant defensive player is put in the right system and his teammates hold up their end of the bargain, then they win tons of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 (edited) Im also pretty sure that even after seeing my team play against him in the Finals twice, along with multiple AS appearances, I have yet to see him say a single word. Starting to make me think he dabbles in the Occult or something. No ones that quiet unless they are hiding something Edited March 3, 2017 by Mr. Sinister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Could be a cosmic being wearing a human suit, reconnoitering our planet to learn about our way of life. Perhaps he doesn't speak our language. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 52 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: I don't think its fair to call Westbrook a chucker and stat padder. There is literally nobody else on his team worth a damn(maybe Kanter that's about it). If he doesn't take every shot and handle the ball everytime they have no shot at winning. I agree on Leonard though. He's an absolute beast. If he played in New York or LA he'd be a megastar but he's basically the prototypical San Antonio Spur. Still can't believe the Wiz passed on him to draft Jan freaking Vesley... That's all well and good, although I disagree that his team sucks and doesn't have any other players worthy of using a possession on offense or grabbing a rebound. But carrying a big load is not an excuse for taking all of the stupid ass shots he does, or making the terrible passes, or not playing defense so he can freelance and grab rebounds. That's just bad basketball. And some of the other stuff he does to get stats like crashing the boards on free throws is irrelevant to his team's success. Westbrook has figured out a way to strengthen his brand and win awards and recognition--to become the most breathtakingly shameless stat padder in recent memory. He does it well and the statistical results are unprecedented. But it doesn't mean he's playing great basketball or deserves MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 He inherited Tim Duncan's powers. Great play, few words, and almost entirely ignored by the media. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Destino said: He inherited Tim Duncan's powers. Great play, few words, and almost entirely ignored by the media. Hey man, I heard Duncan speak on the regular. He was like Ali compared to this guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 My MVP ballot: 1. Leonard 2. Harden 3. Westbrook 4. LeBron 5. Durant / Thomas / Wall I really would love to see Kawhi rewarded for how ****ing good he is on both ends of the floor. He is the reason the Spurs have seamlessly transitioned from Tim. Westbrook really is interesting because I do think he deserves some credit for being the only elite player on that team, but he is such a stat-padder without question. For me it balances out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 Isaiah Thomas is HORRID defensively. It almost negates his offense. If I remember correctly, he's ranked 450/450 for defensive rating. Why give him a MVP vote if he's THIS bad on one end of the floor? MVP Voting: Harden Leonard Durant Lebron Wall Harden + D'Antoni are a match made in heaven. I think a lot of folks believe that the Warriors have a cake walk to the NBA finals. I wouldn't discount teams like Houston and San Antonio. My darkhorse being Utah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 SA will likely take the one seed from them i think, but beyond that, i dont see anything that will stop them, unless KD knee is still an issue. Grizz? Thunder? Nah I think they will be tested come Finals time. Cavs getting Love and JR Smith back, along with Bogut and Deron Williams, will be tough. Cavs went from sweep victim to potential 7 game series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, RonArtest15 said: Isaiah Thomas is HORRID defensively. It almost negates his offense. If I remember correctly, he's ranked 450/450 for defensive rating. Why give him a MVP vote if he's THIS bad on one end of the floor? Agreed. He's super overrated. There is some serious novelty factor inflating his stock. People absolutely love watching and rooting for a little guy on a basketball court. It's human nature. I think it's the same powerful instinct that keeps us from abandoning our children in the wild when they are annoying and burdensome. I don't think Golden State is going to play Houston in the playoffs because I think they'll still get the one seed. But I do know that both Golden State and San Antonio fans are hoping like Hell to get the one seed in order to avoid Houston and get Utah. Take from that what you will. Personally I wouldn't want to play Utah. I get that they are inexperienced, but Gobert is a force of nature. If you don't have the bigs to deal with him, there is really nothing you can do. I guess Golden State is confident they can just out shoot them from the perimeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: Agreed. He's super overrated. There is some serious novelty factor inflating his stock. People absolutely love watching and rooting for a little guy on a basketball court. It's human nature. I think it's the same powerful instinct that keeps us from abandoning our children in the wild when they are annoying and burdensome. I don't think Golden State is going to play Houston in the playoffs because I think they'll still get the one seed. But I do know that both Golden State and San Antonio fans are hoping like Hell to get the one seed in order to avoid Houston and get Utah. Take from that what you will. Personally I wouldn't want to play Utah. I get that they are inexperienced, but Gobert is a force of nature. If you don't have the bigs to deal with him, there is really nothing you can do. I guess Golden State is confident they can just out shoot them from the perimeter. I hope I don't get flamed for this, but I think Thomas is perfectly suited for a 6th man role. He's doing his thing now...scoring at will. But it's pretty much 4 on 5 when the ball goes to the other end of the floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I read on Reddit that the Cavs, Wizards, and Raptors are averaging 122/100 when Thomas is on the floor. Just for comparison sakes, the Golden State Warriors are 114/100. But he scores a lot and plays on big market Boston so he gets a ton of hype. If he were playing in like Memphis or Indiana nobody would pay any attention to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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