mcsluggo Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) This is a legit question. Also, there was no greater winner than Jordan. He might not have the same skill set as someone who is as freakishly athletic as Lebron, but that dude could will his team to win no matter the circumstances. If there's a game that is a must win and I could choose anybody to lead that team, it's Jordan, hands down. That's no slight to anybody else because let's face it, we're talking about the best of the best here. Jordan > Lebron except, you know, when he didn't. when bulls couldn't get past Detroit... or when Jordan couldn't help make the bullets look like even a semi-respectable team... The bulls, at their peak, with Jordan at the helm, did awesome for a good stretch there (and pretty damned good without him there in the middle of that run, as well). But he was never infallible. and its impossible to say what he would've done, or wouoldn't've done without a hall-of-fame coach and a very well constructed, relatively stable, team around him. he is an easy and legit argument as the greatest ever. ... but it is no where near the slam dunk, no question, that is often implied Edited July 21, 2016 by mcsluggo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 They can't make more than two all-star teams? Can you post links to where we are supposed to get some of these stats on, like never finished top 5 in MVP voting, who the hell can remember that? And post the top 50 player list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBass1724 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 except, you know, when he didn't. when bulls couldn't get past Detroit... or when Jordan couldn't help make the bullets look like even a semi-respectable team... The bulls, at their peak, with Jordan at the helm, did awesome for a good stretch there (and pretty damned good without him there in the middle of that run, as well). But he was never infallible. and its impossible to say what he would've done, or wouoldn't've done without a hall-of-fame coach and a very well constructed, relatively stable, team around him. he is an easy and legit argument as the greatest ever. ... but it is no where near the slam dunk, no question, that is often implied I'm not disagreeing with you very much. I hear what you're saying. You can leave the talk about MJ on the bullets at home, though. It's not like he never failed...plus, he missed a bunch of game winners in his career. But it would be like saying Jack Nicklaus isn't a slam dunk as the best golfer of all time because he has the most 2nd place finishes in majors, ever. With that being said, if there's a big game, I want him leading my squad. If there's a last shot and a chance to win the game, I want the ball in his hands, more than likely taking that shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 except, you know, when he didn't. when bulls couldn't get past Detroit... or when Jordan couldn't help make the bullets look like even a semi-respectable team... The bulls, at their peak, with Jordan at the helm, did awesome for a good stretch there (and pretty damned good without him there in the middle of that run, as well). But he was never infallible. and its impossible to say what he would've done, or wouoldn't've done without a hall-of-fame coach and a very well constructed, relatively stable, team around him. he is an easy and legit argument as the greatest ever. ... but it is no where near the slam dunk, no question, that is often implied Sometimes I wish they'd never split after '98, so they could've lost to the Spurs the next year, and that unblemished Finals record would be forever blemished. They can't make more than two all-star teams? Can you post links to where we are supposed to get some of these stats on, like never finished top 5 in MVP voting, who the hell can remember that? And post the top 50 player list. Yeah I give up lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Steve, I'll give it a shot. But I think with all those requirements, we should just do starting five. PG - BJ Armstrong SG - Dell Curry SF - LeBron James PF - Dennis Rodman C - Alonzo Mourning Franchise = LeBron; Star #2 = Mourning; Rodman/Armstrong/Curry are the role players. If any violate the rules let me know, I don't have the time to do that kind of research while at work lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) I can't think that far back, but Mourning had to have been close one of those years in MVP voting. I'll have to think on my list and come out with it later Edited July 21, 2016 by Mr. Sinister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) I can't think that far back, but Mourning had to have been close one of those years in MVP voting. I'll have to think on my list and come out with it later I think he might have been, but I can't find anything about where he finished top 5 in MVP voting. I actually think it should be changed to never was MVP. Edit: damn it, he was runner up in 1998/99, beat out by Malone. Guess I'm starting our boy MLS at center until I can find a replacement Edited July 21, 2016 by Dont Taze Me Bro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) I'm out. That's too much work lol Changing the rules on me because I dominated Edited July 21, 2016 by Momma There Goes That Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 They can't make more than two all-star teams? Can you post links to where we are supposed to get some of these stats on, like never finished top 5 in MVP voting, who the hell can remember that? And post the top 50 player list. http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/ http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/nba_50_greatest.html http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/all_league_by_player.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I'm out. That's too much work lol Changing the rules on me because I dominated I blame you. Then again, McQueen strikes me as the type that takes like 3 hours to dress for work because he keeps changing his mind trying on clothes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I can't think that far back, but Mourning had to have been close one of those years in MVP voting. I'll have to think on my list and come out with it later Yeah he finished 2nd and 3rd in voting during his two seasons when he won DPOY. A quietly dominant run for him from the mid 90's to the end of the decade. You can see where any player finished on leaderboards, awards voting, all star game selections, etc. by going to their basketball-reference page and scrolling to near the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) Steve, I'll give it a shot. But I think with all those requirements, we should just do starting five. PG - BJ Armstrong SG - Dell Curry SF - LeBron James PF - Dennis Rodman C - Alonzo Mourning Franchise = LeBron; Star #2 = Mourning; Rodman/Armstrong/Curry are the role players. If any violate the rules let me know, I don't have the time to do that kind of research while at work lol You're good with Armstrong and Curry but Rodman made the HoF for his playing career (2.5.1). I made that rule specifically for him, or else everyone would choose him as their PF. Rodman is something more than a role player. He is like Draymond Green in that he's a non-scoring star. Speaking of Draymond Green, I want to get a referendum vote on him: Is he a star or role player? Edited July 21, 2016 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Fixing another loophole in the rules. Added 2.5.6, role players must not have ever finished top 5 in MVP voting. Didn't make sense to have that rule for the second star but not role players. So far as I can tell, the only player this eliminates from consideration as a role player is Joakim Noah, who inexplicably finished fourth the year Nene made him his girlfriend in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 You missed the Bill Russell discussion. Get out of here with that nonsense.You mean your cliched and unfounded nonsense about shorter white players? That was your position. Lol It is hard to agree with this based on the results actually on the court. Who is the athletic big man that can pass that is dominating? Clearly, being a good shooter is a number on feature of any successful big man in the league today. (Realistically, somebody like Durant likely would have been a C in the era that Wilt and Russell played.) That's the issue. That center isn't in today's NBA. KAT looks like itSo does Embiid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Whiteside. But he's goi g to flounder on a team that sucks for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBass1724 Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) You mean your cliched and unfounded nonsense about shorter white players? That was your position. Lol Please cite and reference the above because I have no idea what you're talking about? I never mentioned any nonsense about shorter, white players? I did say that Bill Russell was taller than just about everyone else back then and was supposed to dominate against inferior competition. If you're making this about race, then that is all you. Edited July 21, 2016 by CBass1724 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 I think he might have been, but I can't find anything about where he finished top 5 in MVP voting. I actually think it should be changed to never was MVP. This is a good idea. I am having too hard a time finding a second star that didn't finish high in MVP voting. Your change to "Must never have been an MVP" shall now be the rule for second stars. But I'm leaving must not have finished top five in MVP voting for role players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 This is a good idea. I am having too hard a time finding a second star that didn't finish high in MVP voting. Your change to "Must never have been an MVP" shall now be the rule for second stars. But I'm leaving must not have finished top five in MVP voting for role players. In that case, I'm changing my Center to Patrick Ewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 In that case, I'm changing my Center to Patrick Ewing. He's on the 50 greatest list. Rule of thumb is that all of the Dream Teamers except Laettner and Mullin are on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 He's on the 50 greatest list. Rule of thumb is that all of the Dream Teamers except Laettner and Mullin are on that list. crap that's right. too many darn rules lol. I'll keep Zo then. Gotta find me a power forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Whiteside. But he's goi g to flounder on a team that sucks for a bit.he doesn't have the offensive game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) Speaking of that top 50 list, I think they'll do an updated 75 greatest list when they hit the 75th anniversary in five years. I wonder who is going to be on it? I would guess that these guys are shoe-ins: - LeBron - Wade - CP3 - Duncan - Dirk - Kobe - KG - Nash - Kidd - Curry - Durant - Bosh - Allen - Dwight That's only 14 names though. Wonder who the other 11 would be? Do Manu and Parker make it? Billups? Pau Gasol? Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, or Blake Griffin? They are going to have to go back and find worthy entrants from earlier eras. Edit: Forgot about Pierce. He's a shoe-in. 15 is all I can think of. Maybe in five years KAT and Davis will be shoe-ins too? Edited July 21, 2016 by stevemcqueen1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) That's only 14 names though. Wonder who the other 11 would be? Do Manu and Parker make it? Billups? Pau Gasol? Russell Westbrook, Derrick Rose, or Blake Griffin? Billups has to make it. You can't have a multiple championship winning team and not have one representative. I suspect you'll see Iverson (who I don't like as a player much, but I suspect will be put on the team), and then maybe Kidd, Gary Peyton, Webber, Carmelo, They might go back and pick up some other people that were towards the ends of their career when the last team was named- Mouring, Miller, Hardaway, etc. Edited July 21, 2016 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Yeah Iverson will make it. I think the only MVP from the last 25 years who might not make it is Rose. I think Zo, Payton, and C Webb would all be good choices. I guess Reggie Miller too, though I'm not crazy about that. Nor Melo, but he has been a key player on some of the best Team USAs and he is as deserving as Dwight and Bosh. Don't know about Tim Hardaway though. If they left Mullin off, they should probably leave Hardaway off too. Kawhi Leonard could make the team. Already has two DPOYs and a ring. A high finish in MVP voting too. Five more years of accomplishments could get him on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 he doesn't have the offensive game Not yet. Lot of room for growth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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